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And I mean really bad. I’ve had my ups and downs through the last years since Dday and even before, but this one really seems like an abyss. I guess in large part it is because DDay was 3 years ago last Sunday, or maybe not so much DDAy anniversary, but rather days after, the days when 3 years ago, I was a complete mess, I barley functioned, I was in so much pain and I guess so was WH, but he went and soothed himself with fucking AP on his office desk, and twice, before he shut her down completely. I can't get these images out of my head, me struggling to get through the day and him letting her to his office after he promised not to talk to her at all and then seizing the opportunity when she made herself available for a quick fuck. I mean, who does that, who sees the anguish, the suffering he caused and does it again and again, just to feel better for a few moments. I know in a large scale, these two fuck sessions were a blip in the nine years of lying and fucking others, but for some reason, they are the hardest to accept. And on the top of it, tomorrow is the antiversary of them fucking for the first time. And hysterical bonding hit me hard on that same day, so he came home from work, where he fucked her and than had sex with me.

Also, I feel like in a way his support is waning as of lately. Not that he is impatient or unkind or anything like that. It is just, before, when he saw me struggling, he would ask me about my feelings, offer to talk, apologize, he would sit with me and my pain. Lately, he still notices when I am down, he still holds me, but that is it. No offers to talk any more, no more apologies, just a hug and some comforting words and he goes about his business and leaves me alone with my pain. Maybe he feels everything has been said already or that the support he was giving me hasn’t really helped in long run or is trying to give me space or something, I don’t know, I haven’t talked to him about It yet. Otherwise he is just as vigilant as ever since DDAy2, there are no red flags, but him withdrawing and in this time period just sucks. I will call him out on it, but even that seems too much. I feel he should be giving his 100% and I shouldn’t be asking him for support, it should be given freely. Anyway, I just needed to vent. It has been a bad couple of days and I expect I have at least two like that to go and I just need reassurance, that I am normal to feel this way even after 3 years.

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 8:07 AM, Wednesday, July 10th]

You are heard. I pray you can weather these days well and come back up for air soon.

Maybe he feels everything has been said already or that the support he was giving me hasn’t really helped in long run or is trying to give me space or something, I don’t know, I haven’t talked to him about It yet.

I think he's realized that words aren't cutting it anymore... the problem is, he doesn't have anything to offer you other than words. So he's doing nothing instead.

You need him to be proactive, take action, grab the wheel of reconciliation and start driving... because you simply can't do it anymore.

Based on what you've observed the last 3 years, do you think this is likely to happen? Or do you think he's just waiting for you to get over it?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:02 PM, Wednesday, July 10th]

I hear you, Zeta. I'm only halfway there (19 months), but the string of "shouldn't he know better and do better by now" questions plague me too. I'm sorry this antiversary is so rough. It's understandable that you feel this way.

You need him to be proactive, take action, grab the wheel of reconciliation and start driving... because you simply can't do it anymore.

Based on what you've observed the last 3 years, do you think this is likely to happen? Or do you think he's just waiting for you to get over it?

BtB, I don't really know how to answer that. On one hand, I do believe he is trying. As far as making me feel safe about the present, I don't have any complaints. He is transparent, he answers all my questions, is never blameshifting, is hardly ever defensive, I have access to all his devices and accounts, he shares his location, makes sure I know he is where he said he is, takes pictures or records an audio whenever the situation may appear tricky to me, etc. And I never had to guide him in that or tell him how to make me feel safe, he came up with ways by himself. Of course he could still be having a burner phone and extra email accounts, like he did before, he has shown me what he is capable of, but truthfully, right now, I don't think he is. Also it never felt like I was driving the R train, more like I was along for the ride. I did give him some pointers at the beginning, suggested some books I learned about here and told him about this place. Unfortunately he didn't stick around and I was more than a little disappointed he didn't take advantage of the vast collective wisdom here, but I never required it. Precisely because I believe he has to repair his mess by himself.

On the other hand, I do feel he could have done more regarding himself, the whys and the hows of his actions. He did a little digging, but I feel he is stuck at the superficial reasons like, he had a crush, he was selfish, entitled, he took me for granted, etc and he doesn't think there are any deeper reasons. He said he had to come to terms with what he did and digging deeper or looking for reasons in the FOO or whatever is just a cop-out. I partially blame the idiot IC he had in the begining for this, because when WH said he wants to search for his whys, the councellor flat out said, you had a crush and acted on it, what else do you want do find there. And it stuck with him.

I think this is why I don't feel safe, why I don't trust him at all even after three years of no red flags and why I am still guarded with him. I asked him, how do I know you won't fall in love with the next bimbo who gives you enough attention and fuck her, if you don't fix what is wrong within you that allowed you to cheat and he says he has learned his lesson. That now he knows what devastation he caused. That he knows what crossing boundaries leads to (he really identified with Not just friends) and has firmer boundaries for himself now. That he knows now, that living two lives is not working, no matter how good a compartmentalizer he is.

So, I don't know really. I don't think he is just waiting for me to get over it, but I also don't think he has done enough. But to tell the truth, I don't really know what would be enough for me right now. Or if anything can really be enough after 9 years of lies.

Zeta, I hear you and share your thoughts. I’m slightly ahead of you at just under 3-1/2 years. My wife just wants to pretend it never happened. She is not, and has not been proactive in recovery, I have driven the bus but I’m about to pull the parking brake and get off. She doesn’t want to talk about it at all, sometimes gets defensive and will find a way to blame shift to a degree. I really thought once she got past the stage of AP withdrawal she would pull her head out of her ass and get busy working on herself, but alas, it appears that is not to be. I wish I had positive words for you other than I feel your pain and you are allowed to feel that way. This is a consequence of infidelity that we BS’s must endure I guess. Hang in there.

Zeta, I am so sorry you are having these bad days, I hope they are getting better. I could have written 90% of your post, our stories share too many awful similarities.

..who does that, who sees the anguish, the suffering…and does it again and again…

Mine did the same, filled me with sweet assurances that the A was over for years, lots of loving words and hysterical bonding, and it took me a year to find out they carried on for seven more months! Their email with flight and hotel info for one of their many overnights revealed the deception, and I was so unprepared to accept that truth that I had to read it over and over to grasp that it was during our so called reconciliation, that I ended their affair months earlier by confronting her, and it would likely still be going on to this day if I had not become obsessed with finding out more details. I was sure I was looking at the past, while it was happening under my nose. I also share with you the disgusting reality of him leaving her and coming home for passionate bonding sex with me. I will not get over that facet of the betrayal, because I don’t have it in me.

My WH is dealing with the fallout in much the same way as yours, but maybe for different reasons. The A makes him feel bad about himself, he doesn’t like that feeling, so he will not engage. If I push, he gets defensive, angry or shuts down. I’ve talked with my IC at length about how to proceed, and she has me thinking he is just not capable of the self awareness or emotional development required to be the healing partner I need. He is literally incapable of seeing himself as the person who did these things, because his carefully constructed reality would implode. So we work on managing my goals, my boundaries, my reactions. It is still very much a one sided work in process. He knows he has failed me, both in cheating and lying, and in failing to help repair what he destroyed. It is changing the dynamic of our marriage in ways that are still evolving.

I am moving toward ambivalence as a means of acceptance. Having been required by my IC to make a choice to stay or leave the M before we began, that is the platform I am working from. I don’t allow myself to go into flight mode any more when things get bad, and I’m learning how to fight for myself, even though I know there is really no winning here. I see my WH now as a man who is capable of cheating and lying and manipulating the "love of his life and soulmate" for purely selfish and immature reasons, and that is just who he allows himself to be because personal growth and reflection are hard. Got caught, sorry, won’t do it again…. Of course he is waiting for me to get over it, and he is getting frustrated that he is present, loving, supportive about everything else, and that is his proof of change. But, he acted the same during the A, so that doesn’t make me feel more secure. He decided to be faithful so he is, and in his mind this has gone on long enough. F that. I’m only 6 years in from the end of the affair, and it lasted nine years so I’m giving myself three more to "get over it" and I’m hoping I can get there. If that isn’t going to work for him, he can leave. I am so much less invested in our future years together than I was when all this blew up, and that’s on him, not me. I gave my all and I’m tapped. I have done enough work on me to know I’ll be ok no matter what happens with us, but I am impatient for my brain to settle down. I’m tired of thinking about it and being reminded by everything and every month of the year and I would like some brain space for something better. I’m working on that.

I think we both married ostriches, bury their head in the sand and pretend this isn’t happening because it is icky and uncomfortable. We weren’t supposed to know, and there was no plan if we found out. There is still no plan, just stay, offer wordless hugs and wait for us to get over it.

I hope you can let go of the anniversary dates. I’m trying, there are so many. I am in the midst of the date of their cross country 5 day trip to one of our bucket list locations. I couldn’t go because one of us had to stay home and be a parent, and the other had to go on an optional trip with his side piece for fun and games. I hate this date and trip the most, right after the ones when we were in false reconciliation. I hate being reminded every holiday, our M anniversary and most months of the year of so many horrifying revelations. So I’m trying to let go of date triggers, because technically every day and ten years of my life are huge triggers.

My IC made me make a list - I stay because…. If I had decided to leave, I’m sure the list would have been I’m leaving because…. I remind myself daily of the reasons I stay. I tell him some of them, and we do joke about it. I stay because I can’t open jars with my arthritis anymore. lol. I think the root of my bad days is because I am not in control of the outcome here, and I can’t get him to do what I want/need him to do, which is discuss what happened and why. He thinks we have, but my notes show a tangle of crap that is contradictory, superficial and not at all a resolution or platform for moving forward. I guess that’s why I’m still engaging about the A from time to time. I deserve to have my feelings heard, that’s the price of keeping me now.

Like you, I have zero red flags, I have complete transparency and I have zero concern he is cheating now. Lying, harboring resentments or secret desires - who knows? I treat him with caution now, and I don’t allow myself to get too invested in his words. His actions are what I watch, and so far, he’s busting his butt to make me happy around the house and the farm, and anything I want I get, anywhere I want to go, we go. He will take me anywhere and do anything for me, or let me go off alone. Anything and everything EXCEPT work on himself and help me heal from his A in tangible ways. Pretending all is good is not the way for me, but it is the way for him. He’s not pretending, as far as I can tell. He seems happy with "just me" now, and he seems invested in keeping me around and happy with this life. He is just not invested in helping me to reconcile the loving husband with the sewer monster hiding inside him. I’ve tried to talk with him about the changes in me his response to his A are causing, and I’m especially concerned about the loss of respect and the shift in the love I have always felt for him. He doesn’t want to talk about that either. We will see if that becomes a bigger issue.

The last time we had a discussion/fight about the affair, he got so frustrated and said this whole thing is like a cancer! I said it IS cancer, and without treatment it will continue to grow. This is the path you chose for us. This is the life you have left us with. I refuse to take blame for not getting over it on his terms. Nothing about this has been on my terms, and daily I am evaluating what my terms are. Like you, I’m not sure there will ever be enough for me to get over a decade of betrayal. I asked my IC, who has dealt with lots of infidelity, if anyone has ever stayed after one like ours and she said no. But I think you can grow and be happy and honor the life you have built together and live a beautiful new version of your life, and find a higher version of love within yourself. She is helping me to find the gratitude and joy in what love remains. The thought of this still makes me cry, because my love for him is what blinded me, and what made me feel weak in the aftermath, but she is trying to help me see it as a gift and not a curse.

The perspective shifts that keep coming, especially with IC, and the constant reframing of my M, my life, my WH, it is just so much flux in my life at a time where I want simple, easy and yet my WH has brought chaos and complications to my life with his choices. I work every day on perspective, on broadening what I can live with so I can let go of bitterness and disappointment. Looking back, I can see many, many incremental improvements in myself and my emotional health, especially with the emotional regulation and recognizing how they cause me to react and making corrections, and I’m proud of myself for that growth. But in the day to day or in the moment, it’s hard to see that progress. EMDR helped me break the chain from childhood issues dragging me down further and I think I am ready to ask for more EMDR to stop the A related thoughts and emotions that won’t go away.

I hope you are making progress on yourself. My IC said I can’t help your WH, I’m here to help you. But she has helped me to understand his personality type, his limitations and to stop personalizing his shortcomings as a reflection of my worth. He’s damaged, has been since a young age, and he may be incapable of change. There are a lot of people like him, who just can’t handle the truth about themselves, because they have trained all their lives to hide from or block out things that make them feel bad about themselves. Children of cold, hypercritical parents have deep ingrained coping mechanisms and I don’t like his, but at least she has helped me to understand his process and limitations. I used to think if he loved me enough, he would try harder to help me now. But if he loved me enough, he wouldn’t have cheated in the first place.

Anyway, sorry I wrote a whole book here, and hope there’s something, anything in here that helps a little. I wish I had more to offer you besides ME TOO! Take care of yourself, try to distract your brain from those date triggers and hope for better days ahead. Best to you.

Your reality is your husband has had a completely secret life for the entirety of your marriage. You will never be married to an honest man. That is your truth. He became an adult physically but appears to be stuck in childhood emotionally. He had a complete alternate life you knew nothing about. You got little tiny buzzes every now and then but nothing concrete. His unconscious description of himself is completely different from what he presents to the world. Unless he has gotten deep, deep therapy he is still that person.

You are in agony because so much of your life was a lie and you did not know it. What you need to do, if you stay with him, is find a way to accept this very flawed man conned you and has gotten away with it.

The stages of grief explain why you feel stuck. It seems impossible to realize all this actually happened. You appear to be in the shock and bargaining stages. "He can’t really have done that so let it not be true." In my case life forced me to "accept" because I was a sahm with very young children. I had two very ill parents and no way to provide for my kids. I kept my mouth shut, rug swept and moved on. Years later, out of the blue, I asked and he was so blindsided he admitted. I did not ask who, how many, nothing. By then we were both older and he grew up…and I got a job so I was no longer dependent on him. It gave me a backbone. He is no longer that person I thought was perfect. He is the guy who cheated on his wife and children. That is my reality but to give you hope, we have a good marriage.