SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The ‘why’ was absolutely critical to me — and trying to understand how I vanished from my wife’s consciousness — was an important aspect of moving forward.

Of course, desire and opportunity are there, but not all of us jump into temptation with both feet.

My wife is beautiful and brilliant and swatted away dozens of very serious attempts, including by most of my close friends. She had a boos she respected suddenly show up with flowers to a business dinner — it was fairly common for her to be hit on when walking down the street.

I needed to know how her boundaries went from rock solid to non-existent.

The long story is, she competed for what she thought was love her whole life. She was the ignored youngest child, competing for affection. And she took that competition serious. She was the number one student in her class, never missed a class in high school or college, lettered in three sports, earned college scholarships, never missed church, got a great job. She aimed to be absolutely perfect at everything. The job moved us out of state and far from home. We had our first child, sooner than she was ready to tackle that responsibility.

As John Steinbeck once wrote, "We can shoot rockets to the moon, but we can’t cure anger or discontent."

Now, none of that is an excuse, and I strongly disagree with the quote, but a lot of humanity blames unhappiness on exterior things.

So, one day my wife woke up with anger discontent.

She had always done everything right, everything perfect and she was miserable.

The great job turned political and unpleasant, we were miles from real family and support and all we had as ‘new’ pals in the world was AP and his family.

Six months of AP reaching out, and she was all in on a choice and a rebellious vibe she felt like she earned. Every rationalization in the world didn’t make it right and she knew that in part — she didn’t wrap her head around the self loathing and self destruction, much less what those choices would do to our little family.

I had to vanish from her thoughts or it would ruin the fantasy world of validation they built together.

I hate all of it. The why, the how and how long.

Did my wife have to fall so far in order to finally understand what we "had" was a healthier, happier relationship? We still don’t know that answer. Part of me thinks she did have to be treated horribly and dumped horribly, to witness the full destruction of the fantasy in order to rebuild her esteem (from the inside out, instead of exterior approval).

Another part of me views it all as an unnecessary tragedy.

Either way, at least showing empathy for her lowest moments and worst days has been foundational to the relationship we’re building on everyday now.

It’s much more than hate the sin but love the sinner. It’s being able to focus on her humanity as a whole, and seeing her as a whole person — we’re deeply flawed and yet, love the heck out of each other anyway.

Notaboringwife-

Your response is so illustrative of what a ws mindset looks like.

Ws often only look at what they want, what they lack. We can be so self involved that we don’t even consider our part in it. There was a recent post on the ws side this reminds me of.

Taking accountability for how we got where we are and how we contributed to the dysfunctions of the marriage is really what a ws needs to examine in order to be more self aware so we can grow what we lack. And it’s a life long process I think because we all have this deprograming to do.

I am a lot of the same as I always was- but I see the patterns and I have to often work to overcome them each time they arise. I accused my husband is something similar as your husband did. It was not physical intimacy, it was emotional intimacy. But I was so aloof and busy in my world I too forgot to show up, share it, be vulnerable, ask for things, etc. He was just okay with the aloofness he perceived because his bigger need was physical intimacy and that ran pretty much like clockwork. I then experienced sexual dysfunction because I think I had finally disconnected from him and myself.

Anyway, I still learn a lot and I really appreciate your post. I feel like there are themes that come up like this one that give me new ways to look at what happened and dissect it. Not really because I am still trying to solve this, but more it reinforces and keeps me moving forward with that life long thing I mentioned.

She had always done everything right, everything perfect and she was miserable.

Oof, raising my hand on this one too.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:04 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

I’m pretty confident that my EXWW wife’s why was relatively simple. Our daughters had left for college, I was basically at the peak of my career going amazing places and flying on corporate jets, and she felt left behind. She was a SAHM for many years, had no real job skills, and felt like everyone was living a better more exciting life than her. It didn’t help that she was pre menopausal and when she walked down the streets, the catcalls were directed at my daughters and not her. Mind you she was still amazingly beautiful and very fit, but just a little older.

A predator comes around, senses all this, tells her how beautiful and smart she is ( of course I did too, but she felt it didn’t mean as much from me) and he not only beds here, but turns her into his personal slut. She gets to shed her soccer mom image, and does things sexually that was so unlike her. She saw it after things ended with him, pretty quickly too, and felt incredibly stupid to fall for it. Kind of like sending money to some prince in the Middle East to collect the millions they are promised if the comply. Scammed and she though not street smart, was smart as a whip in other ways.

In the end the reason didn’t matter enough to save us.

In short, classic mid life crisis.

Why?

To fill the hole inside.

Lots and lots of different sized and shaped holes, so they all look different, but ultimately they are all the same. Validation. Esteem. Ego. Their self. Looking to make themselves whole. To be seen and to exist.

It’s the mirror image to the question, why does it hurt so bad that they cheated?

Hikingout-

The simplicity of my husband (fWS) accusing me for lack of emotional intimacy is right on, hence his affair and all the mess he created in my life and that of our adult kids.

With your way of explaining your story helped me close off the ´why’ chapter in my life for good. Amen to that.

Wow. Thank you for sharing.

Smarternow,

Thank you for posting this topic. From all the posts, I learnt something different today about my ´why’.

I’ll also add that these posts, gave me better insight into myself as a fBS than my therapy sessions ever did.

"

But man, I wanted a sensual, sexy relationship. I wanted you to want me! I wanted you to surprise me with offers, invitations, flirting and adventures. I know it’s not all on you.´

They say it as if their spouse were in luxurious hotels being pampered.... When my husband started his affair I was killing myself with work, I was not well and kept going ALONE to medical checkups, I even had an unannounced biopsy during a check up, I was at home alone with two teenagers and a dog. So unfair I was betrayed when everything was on my shoulders. I wanted a sensual, sexy relationship, I wanted to travel and be in luxurious hotels, I wanted him to want me, BUT NEVER in my dreams did I think betrayal was even to be considered...

Along with the "why" there should be the figuring out the "how." Lots of people have "whys". The "how" is about how the WS allowed themselves to commit the act of betrayal as a response. That's one of the reasons I believe IC is essential; because figuring out the "how" is a very deep, complicated, and often painful process.

Also, another "how". How to ensure that this never happens again. 5, 10, 15 years down the line. Again, best achieved with the help of a qualified professional.

I found out why, but that didn't take any pain away. Also, I still don't understand how the 'why' was enough to enable cheating. The why never answered the question, 'How did I stay faithful, but she didn't?'

How did I stay faithful, but she didn't?'

Why and why not are two different questions.

The why never answered the question, 'How did I stay faithful, but she didn't?'

The only way I've ever been able to resolve this in my mind is to say that people are just different in many ways. Yes, everyone has problems, but maybe not to the same degree. (The depth of the problems doesn't seem to explain choices though, so that's neither here nor there.)

Why do some people develop really serious personality problems like antisocial personality disorder or borderline personality disorder, but others don't?

Why do some people find addiction to be inescapable while others turn their lives around (or never become addicted)?

Why do some people even turn to drugs in the first place while others never go there at all?

Why do some desperate people turn to a life of anger and crime while others turn to church or school?

Why do some become addicted to exercise while others become addicted to food?

Why do some people cope this way while others cope that way?

Why?

Why?

Why?

Why do people handle their lives and problems so differently?

Me, personally--I don't think the infidelity has anything to do with the R or the BS or the problems or feelings the WS is experiencing. I don't think someone cheating on you or not cheating on you is related to their feelings about you, the BS, at all. I think it has everything to do with people just being different in their coping and their drug of choice in that moment that coping was needed. And people and their choices are just different. Yes, you can be in the same R with someone, but you are not the same person. You are different.

The cheating is not about you.

It's about the cheater. And coping.

I think it is BS or society that says you cheat "on" someone. A cheater does not see it that way due to compartmentalization and complete selfishness. A cheater just cheats for a high. To cope. They do not cheat on their spouse because that would require thinking of them. Which they don't. Like downing a double something on the rocks or taking a hit on the crackpipe or buying that expensive purse you absolutely cannot afford, all you are thinking of is the high.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:25 PM, Thursday, July 25th]

I understand the thought process that ….they weren’t thinking about you

but there is no way they are blind to the fact that cheating might endanger their marriage. It is just a basic fact of life.

If I eat pie every day I might gain weight

If I jump into a live volcano I might die

If I jump in a pond I might get wet

If I cheat on my wife I might lose my marriage

As a grown adult of 45 years I find it impossible to believe my spouse was not aware of this basic fact of life. So whether he « THOUGHT » about it or not he most certainly KNEW it.

For me that leads to: he knew he might lose his marriage(me) and that was okay with him. The value of our marriage(me) to him? Almost nil

Seems like just a fact

So doesn’t that lead to the question why was I worthless to you? Does anyone else wonder that?

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 9:08 PM, Thursday, July 25th]

don't think someone cheating on you or not cheating on you is related to their feelings about you, the BS, at all. I think it has everything to do with people just being different in their coping and their drug of choice in that moment that coping was needed. And people and their choices are just different. Yes, you can be in the same R with someone, but you are not the same person. You are different.

I agree with your whole post but this part especially.

——

I also agree with sisson the why doesn’t relieve the pain. I cheated on him but when he did it to me it still hurt to the bone. It’s still so much abandonment. Which leads me to try and answer this, though I suspect the answer is no more satisfying than the why:

So doesn’t that lead to the question why was I worthless to you?

What I have learned is our relationship with ourselves is the foundation and deeply reflected in your relationship with others.

When I cheated I didn’t care about myself. I was deeply depressed. The truth is the best thing for myself would have been to be faithful and to lean into my husband. I acted against my best interest in every single way by cheating. I lost so much and could have lost even more.

I was willing to walk away from the marriage because I simply believed that it was a source of my unhappiness but was too coward to bring that to light. Why? Because I was too coward to look at myself. To confront those things that bringing up that misery to him would have meant making too many changes myself. And that is sleepwalking talk. Ignoring the elephant in the room, ignoring that I was on a slippery slope with another man.

To use owning’s example- people shoot heroine in their arm knowing it’s going to ruin your life. It’s known to be highly addictive and it kills a great percentage of people even on their first use. What does someone think in that moment? That they need to escape and they will deal with the consequences later. That it wont happen to them, they wont let it ruin their life. It’s kicking consequences down the road with magical thinking that you will somehow escape the consequences.

I know how painful that is to be cast aside. But a ws self abandons first, and once that happens the gravity of what it does to anyone else isn’t considered. They tell themselves things like what he doesn’t know can’t hurt him. And they bury their head in the sand. Eventually they convince themselves with justifications of the lack they they perceive in the relationship and they blame you for it. I blamed my husband that he wanted a servant and someone to have sex with. It’s so ridiculous to say but I am telling you my truth so that perhaps it may lend and inch more to your understanding.

For a ws to come back from that, they really can never lose track of the idea that they are responsible for their own happiness. They are responsible to stay awake at the wheel, and not self abandon. And truly fix their relationship with themselves because every aspect of their life flows from that. Every single aspect. If I can love and respect myself, I can give that to others.

There is no consideration at all given to the spouse. None. No real consideration of the consequences because they push that idea down the road, and expect you won’t find out. They don’t even know what they are doing past the day, or even the hour they are in. It’s hard to explain that to people who stay awake and keep their hand on the wheel of their life. If I hadn’t experienced that state of being I never would have understood it either. But I 100 percent guarantee it speaks nothing to your lovability or your worth. If they knew their own they would t have acted against their best interests so profoundly.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:09 AM, Friday, July 26th]

If I eat pie every day I might gain weight

And yet the globe and the US are getting more and more obese. So then why are we eating the wrong foods if we all know the facts?

I would argue that we lie to ourselves. We lie to ourselves as we do things that give an immediate reward even though they are actually harmful in the long run. For example, we don't get fat in one sitting, so we say things like, "I'll start my diet tomorrow" or "It doesn't matter" or "One piece of pie never killed anyone." We actually convince ourselves that what we are doing is fine. The only way we can live with ourselves as we do horrible or unhealthy or unhelpful things that we want to do in that brief moment is by simply denying the truth--that the big picture of life is a series of small choices and those choices DO matter. We all deny or minimize this.

We drive even though we've had a few drinks. "I'm fine. Nothing is going to happen. I'll be careful."

We text our ex even though we've sworn to leave this dysfunctional relationship. "I just want to see how he is."

From a betrayed's perspective, the cheating was done "to me." But just like none of these things are done TO someone, cheating was done FOR someone--for the WS's benefit and high. Like all other bad, harmful, dangerous, possibly idiotic decisions, the consequences are minimized or denied at the time. The reason that the most coveted, amazing spouses can get "cheated on" is because who they are had nothing to do with the fact that their WS was going through something and needed a fix or high. Anyone can be married to someone who is going through something. No BS can be awesome enough to prevent this or affair proof the marriage. It's all about the WS and their manner of coping unfortunately.

This was rambling...sorry. Just trying to say that like a drug addict or alcoholic or gambler, it's never about the family or what they are/are not doing. It's always about the broken one and what they are choosing to do to supposedly feel better.

Understanding the why’s validated me. Validated that he was broken, not me. I no longer feel any ´pain’ at being abandoned or discarded in the past. That changed over the course of our R to something akin to indifference.

Maybe indifference is a shield I use not to feel that ´pain’. But for me, I don’t think so.

The why’s are clear, the how’s not longer matter.

The age related memory confusions have begun creeping in. We are both in our seventies. We have other issues to deal with. The lying, cheating, abandonment and their respective feelings are in the past. There they shall remain.

Aging has a way of balancing out one’s life and the way we now see and understand things differently. Aging also obligates us to talk when there are misunderstandings without criticisms or judgements. Or worse in my mind, yearning for youth. And lashing out because we can no longer do things like in the past.

I know he is flawed, I know I am flawed. We have different coping skills. But we are together.

Yes, but it wasn't a simple "why" it was more a series of "whys". They turned out to be a bunch of family of origin issues, a bunch of unresolved issues from adolescent ears, and a whole bunch of other stuff that she never told me anything about. All of this combined to create an extremely insecure person who masquerade as someone else. However, secretly was always looking for compliments, kibbles, from strangers, from men. Compliments from the husband at home didnt really mean anything, because he "had" to say those things. But strangers, especially older men, that meant something. Add onto that alcohol and marijuana and anti-depressants all mixed, one of which you are not supposed to consume alcohol with, and it turned into a dangerous mix. She just had to meet the wrong person at the wrong time under the wrong circumstances and it was off to the races.

But I never got an answer to why certain things were done, and I never really got much of an answer to what was said.

All in all, it was all very unsatisfactory. I mean, I would expect it to be something rather fucking incredible, to get to the point of cheating, the proverbial unicorn farting rainbows type of relationship. But it was just some shitty lousy fuck fest. My wife didn't even have an orgasm during any of it.

But he did what she wanted; he told her she was beautiful, that she was smart, that she was great, that she was awesome, that she was hot, that she was way hotter than his wife. She ate up the compliments and a whole lot more!

Then he told her that she could "stand to lose a few pounds". That may have been part of what jerked her into reality. She wasn't even overweight. I would never talk to a woman like that.

He turned out to be a real peach. But what do you expect from a guy who cheats on his wife?

Standing there

I struggle with this too still some days
Last night I asked my H what was so great about her and what they did and he said literally nothing other than she was below him. So , we got traded for his ego. Hurts

All in all, it was all very unsatisfactory. I mean, I would expect it to be something rather fucking incredible, to get to the point of cheating, the proverbial unicorn farting rainbows type of relationship

Validated that he was broken, not me.

Key point by Notaboringwife.

In our effort to recover, somewhere along the way we tend to blame ourselves.

Part of the quest to gain understanding of the why is knowing there wasn’t much IF ANYTHING we could have done to change the direction our spouses were headed in.

And I also agree knowing the why doesn’t take away pain, that’s a whole other process anyway. Healing ourselves can be done with or without understanding a single thing about infidelity.

However, I contend it was still a part of my relationship rebuild. I may not have made a similar choice, but I did need to know the circumstances that eroded my wife’s esteem and her boundaries — which she needed to understand as well.

It’s more about; what makes us vulnerable to poor choices?

Knowing more about her thought process, her spiral down the well, didn’t make anything better. I just understand her life overall much better than before. As I often say, I can hate what happened and still be glad each of us became better people on the other side of it.

I also agree, whatever the reasons are, they ain’t special or spectacular.

One of my favorite Heinlein quotes is essentially - humans aren’t rational beings, they are rationalizations beings.

We can rationalize anything in a crunch. Good, evil or otherwise, rationalization is a weapon and a tool.

I had to staple a few rationalizations together myself when considering whether R is ever a good idea or not. At the end of the day, the choice to R was more about empathy and care than anything to do with logic.

The why is lame. We simply get to understand how far someone has to fall to make a Universally WRONG choice to cheat.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 7:13 PM, Saturday, July 27th]