SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

7 weeks ago my husband told me he was not happy in our marriage, with no details, and then left the next day for travel. He came home for the weekends, but did not want to discuss the bomb he dropped. I happened to find a gift of jewelry in his briefcase 4 weeks ago and hired a PI only to confirm my worst fears of a PA three weeks ago. We have been married 27 years and together 30 years. The A has been going on at least 2 years. My emotions are so raw and I am gutted. Sickeningly, he was involved with the OW last year at our daughters wedding, where my H read wrote a toast and read a prayer about the beauty of marriage and fidelity.

He has admitted the A, only after I produced the proof from the PI, but even so he is still protecting the details of the A. He began IC, but I do not believe it is an honest attempt, because before he was caught he was clear that his intention was not to restore our marriage, though at that time the A had not come to light.

He has traveled all over the world with this woman on business, living purely in a fantasy world of fine dining, premier hotels and none of the banalities of reality. They live on separate coasts so they were only together on these trips and apparently both were planning on leaving their P to be together. Now he is begging me not to file for divorce on grounds of adultery - but I think it has more to do with the public implications, than being remorseful. In our state adultery is a misdeamnor and he does not want that on his record. He is also very scared of ruining his relationship with our daughters - they are all over the age of 19 - and they would never look at him the same.

He says he loves me but not like a W - yet he does not want me to file for D. He said he is afraid that I will hate him for the rest of my life, he is afraid we can never rekindle our passion, he says he is afraid of loosing the respect and love of his daughters. He says he has no passion for me (because he has poured it all on the OW) so I am left wondering why I should not file for D. I love him with all my heart and soul, and will always love him. I can not even picture myself wanting to get involved with another person, he was my forever love.

My entire married life was dedicated to raising our family, including taking care of his parents as they were declining. I was with them both when they passed, my H was not. So this is truly one of the worse nightmares to me as I feel I have come to the end of my shelf life and he was upgrading me for a newer model.

I have gone from wanting to save the marriage at all costs, to spending every minute reading books on surviving an A, to talking to every woman I know who has been through it and rebuilt. I also read the book Cheating In A Nutshell It is all about the A from the perspective of the BS. Unlike the other books it focuses on the trauma the BS experience.

For almost BS (I know 6) it took about 10 years to feel they fully trusted again. I am so confused, as that seems like a mental prison to me... where I bear all the risk, yet my heart pulls me in that direction.

This weekend I gave him an ultimatum, her or me, make a choice. He has not been able to make a choice. Is it because this is all so fresh? I am truly crushed. What I want is for him to tell me he loves me and will do anything he has to in order to win me back.

I am grateful for the posts on this forum as they have given me the hope that I am not alone, they have given me the wisdom to know it is not my fault, they have given me the courage to know that this too shall pass and I will come out the other side (whatever that looks like) ... heartbroken

Welcome to SI. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Finding out that the one person who is supposed to have your back is cheating is absolutely devastating.

Right now he is not reconciliation material. You asked him to choose between you and the OW and he could not choose. That tells you everything you need to know. From what you posted, he does not sound remorseful or concerned about anyone but himself.

You need to protect yourself and focus on you. He is not deserving of your efforts nor is he a safe partner right now. Don't be his back up plan. The choices he made have consequences. That's on him.

Sending you strength moving forward.

I am so so deeply sorry you are going through this.

I went through something similar (I am in R with my H) but I am happy you found this site I did not for years.

Please take seriously the 180 and all the advice located in the Healing Library for those who just found out. I dearly wish I had.

You are 7 weeks out. He may not yet have the skills to really own his behavior and be a good candidate for R. He might. He certainly might in time.

I won't recap all the great advice, but suffice it to say, when I read The 180, I knew that I had done everything wrong! You will be setting yourself up for success if you can follow the advice.

The reason he cannot make choice is it is super early days and you MUST do the 180. And mean it.

You do not deserve this. You did not cause this. You are not less than the AP. You are a wonderful, giving, selfless woman who dedicated her life to her family. HE is currently not in his right mind. He has things to work on.

We stumbled and fumbled along in early R because I did not have the knowledge of the 180.

Please listen to the excellent advice here from women who have been through this.

I am rooting for you and hoping you take excellent care of yourself in the near future.

It may be a case of letting him sit with "You want a life with her, here you go." Not that that is what will happen. But the cold hard reality of "This is what this will look like" lawyers, community loss of respect, daughters' loss of respect, etc...

But you decide how and when to proceed. Huge hugs to you.

I’m sorry. I was in your shoes except the affair was months long (not years) but yes I was being kicked to the curb and replaced by the OW (after 25 years of a good marriage).

You have to do what is best for you!!! Period!

Meet with an attorney. Find out the next steps snd what you will or won’t be entitled to. Learn about the D laws in your state. This is for knowledge and information to help you be able to make decisions, if and when the time comes.

Also, you do not have to accept your H cheating and letting HIS demands of no D affect your decision or future.

As for your children they will have to decide for themselves how they want to handle their relationship w/ him. You have to explain it is their decision and you will support them. You don’t want to alienate them from a relationship w/ their dad but make it clear that you are not going to sit by and allow him to continue to cheat on you.

I like the ultimatum. I did the same thing. All I got was one week it was me he wanted and the next week it was the OW.

Finally I had enough. I had my very solid exit plan. Money in the bank. Full control of finances. Mediator lined up. Excellent therapist. Co-parenting plan (in draft form) ready to be implemented.

Funny how telling someone "I am D you" and get out in the same sentence brings the cheater back to reality.

You cannot wait for the cheater yo make a decision. The longer you live in limbo the worse it is for you.

Keep posting here. You will get great advice.

For now I recommend you get a good counselor and support team. And mention to Mr "I cannot decide what I want" it’s time for him to move out. Like yesterday.

Edited to add: do not back down on kicking him out. It’s not a D. But it’s a reality check for him that YOU are not the person that will allow the disrespect to continue.

Even if he swears the Affair is over, make him leave. Often the cheaters “swear” the Affair is over when all they do is stop contact or get better at hiding it for a brief period of time.

Once I kicked my H out, I started wearing the pants in the family. He learned NO! Means no and I am not backing down. He used to manipulate me to get what he wants. That stopped 11 years at dday2 of affair 2. I now am in control of my life and my happiness is mine to control.

If he’s adding to my joy - great. If not, it’s time to re-evaluate the marriage. Yes for me it’s that black and white. His cheating brought out a strong side of me I never knew I had. I’m sure he’s sorry it did but that’s what his cheating did.

Take no crap. 😂

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:17 PM, Tuesday, September 10th]

I am so sorry you are here. The good news is you WILL survive this and come though the other side. Your WS's A sounds a lot like the A one of my very good friends had with a married co-worker. They too traveled all over the world together, staying in fancy hotels, eating great food, having drinks in interesting places. Her description of her A (that went on for about a year and a half before being caught) was "an all expenses paid vacation romance." She also said "If you can't have a fantastic time with someone in that environment you really have problems." In other words, her explanation was that the whole vacation set up is about as fantasy land as it gets - living that fantasy is entirely different from reality - like night and day. Once the A was outed to the OBS, it unraveled, quickly and the fantasy was over.

IMO you need to rip the band-aid off fast - for you. And it sounds like you have tried:

This weekend I gave him an ultimatum, her or me, make a choice. He has not been able to make a choice. Is it because this is all so fresh?

So now what? Go back on your ultimatum and wait. Of course your WS can't make up his mind...you are trying to compete with the ultimate fantasy. Don't do it. If he can't make up his mind then you need to make up yours. It's not because it's all so fresh - because it's not all so fresh for him. He's known for years. If you don't want to live in limbo - don't. Take the next step and start the paperwork to file for D (or separation - whatever is the next step in your state). The thing is filing for D does not mean you have to D, it means you have decided that living in infidelity is NOT what you are going to do. The other option is wait for your WS to decide, or worse, let him continue this whole charade under the guise of trying to decide?!?!?!? Trust me on this - the longer you live in limbo the more harm is done to YOU - your mental state, your self-esteem. All of it.

I am truly crushed. What I want is for him to tell me he loves me and will do anything he has to in order to win me back.

I wanted all that too. The reality is, the only way your WS is going to get out of the mindset that he is in control here is to take control away from him. If there is an OBS, tell them. And then SHOW your WS that you are not willing to sit and wait for him to choose between reality and the ultimate fantasy (that of course cannot be reality - not in that context). My friend who had the A like your WS is having, once caught, said she was going to leave her OBS. She had 100% convinced herself that her AP was some magical person, designed especially for her - the ultimate soul mate blah blah blah. Now she will tell you her AP is kind of disgusting physically and almost creepy mentally and that what she thought she was in love with was the romantic idea - falling in love while sipping fruity cocktails overlooking the pacific, the anticipation of flying across the country to a 5-star hotel for a week with your lover. It was all very much the romantic ideal we are sold in movies - love as destiny (and destiny in its best form always comes with a 500-thread count sheets). It sounds like that may be your WS as well.

So what happened with my friend? After the A blew up and the OBS found out, the fantasy was over and my friend was left with her very hurt and very angry H and their two kids. It was the opposite of the fantasy - it was misery and pain, and she wanted out because her A had shown her there was so much better out there. So eventually her H filed for D...and much like so many people on here, that was the moment that woke her up, from pining away for the A she had lost and the fantasy-ideal to realizing she was going to actually lose in reality. That was 2 years after d-day. Up until that point she admits she could not focus on her marriage, her H, her kids, not in the way she should have, and she assumed that she was in control of whether her marriage would continue - that her H would just sit there waiting. She needed that snap to assess her reality - to let her really understand she was not in total control.

I am NOT saying threatening D is the magic bullet to kill the A and bring your WS back to you, on his knees, begging for your forgiveness. While I certainly wanted that myself, that is not what happened (and it did not happen with my friend either - they are still married but they had YEARS of therapy together and separate and her H has stated numerous times that if he had to do it all over again he would have divorced her immediately as he stayed for the kids which he feels was not the right choice). But what will happen is you will take some control of your life back, and it sounds like your WS is fearful of the consequences of his own actions relating to the effect of the D (misdemeanor, etc). It's high time your WS felt some consequences - and honestly, the reason why I didn't D sooner (my WH and I are D but now date) was because I felt like that was what he wanted. But really, if that is what your WS wants then there is no point sticking around anyway.

IMO he is solely focused on protecting himself and his AP. He could be stalling for time to get his affairs in order. If he is unable to commit to you and cease all contact with her that is a pretty clear message IMO.

Protect yourself. In life we make choices and sometimes those choices have consequences so now he must bear the cost of his consequences. If your daughters shun him that's on him

Welcome to SI and I'm so very sorry you're here. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read, as well as some with bull's eye icons. You've already been pointed to the Healing Library, which is another excellent resource. In the ICR (I Can Relate) forum, there is a thread for those whose WS (wayward spouse) has been involved in a LTA (long-term affair) that might provide some good insight.

If you can IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist can be very helpful. Your WH (wayward husband) needs some serious IC to work on finding his whys and to work on becoming a safe partner. Right now, it sounds like he doesn't want to become a safe partner, and that isn't a good indicator of R (reconciliation).

Please see a doctor and get tested for STDs/STIs because there are some nasty diseases that have serious consequences, including turning into cancer. If you're having trouble with depression or sleeping, ask for meds to help you through this very tough part.

You may wish to visit a lawyer (or several) to find out how D would impact you. Not saying you have to D, but having the knowledge of options may lessen any anxiety you feel about the process.

He made a firm decision not to choose you.

My reco is to never threaten anything, much less D, unless you're ready to impose the consequence. Now is the time for total honesty and no attempt to manipulate.

The 180 works for a BS who can't dump an unremorseful WS. It is not a good tool for manipulating an unremorseful WS into R. R is hard work, and the WS needs to be fully committed, not manipulated.

This is a much doc than the original 180 list of behaviors: https://wwws.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/ . Your H isn't remorseful, so IMO it's worth your effort to look into SerJr's thread to see if the simplified 180 is for you.

You’ve got some good advice so far. My first impression reading what you wrote, is it sounds like he’s more worried about the reputation and financial loss he would incur. Now, when it starts getting real for him and he starts to beg you to take him back. How do you decide if that is motivated by finances or not? You can always tell him you’re going forward with divorce regardless and after, that you will start with working on R.

I am truly crushed. What I want is for him to tell me he loves me and will do anything he has to in order to win me back.

I want to caution you. My H was on the fence and could not "make a decision". Being in false reconciliation is even worse than being the BS. False reconciliation is where the cheater swears their undying love but still continues to cheat (either with the same AP or someone new).

And now you are in a cycle where you cannot and won’t believe a word they say for years.

I want to caution you on D him w/out really being sure you want a D. Obviously if he continues to cheat you will decide you’ve had enough one day and D, even if it’s not your first choice. But it may be the only option.

But it’s a big decision to make and the longer he’s in the fence, the harder it will be for you to forgive him and get past all of it. I often write it’s not the affair that kills the marriage, but the relationship after Dday that destroys the marriage.

Your Cheating husband (CH) is a classic example of that. But if he’s hesitant in making a decision, that is a TELL. If you play poker a tell is a huge sign of the reality of a situation.

His "tell" is signaling he doesn’t want to end the affair. Not a good sign.

You deserve and need the support of your daughters. I would tell them what is happening. They should know.

Agapi I am so sorry you are here with your burden.

When I read your husband had been with the AP on business trips, enjoying luxurious hotels, in their bubble, chills crossed my back. My husband did that for 4 years and I was completely shattered when I found out.

I know you are upset and I am going to say something a few people probably don’t agree with.

Your husband is still in the limerence phase in which everything is fun, big emotions, great sex with the AP and somehow you are "spoiling his fun". Having an affair is a big thing and the people involved are like under the influence. In a way it is a good thing that his affair is shaking his decisions processes. Risking to hurt the people you love for a silly story is really dumb, at least it should be an opportunity to think carefully. My niece, who is a counsellor, told me that when someone is experiencing a personal crisis really wants to be in a place and situation one moment and another they don’t wang to be there anymore. Emotions fluctuate, all the decisions making processes wobble. I am sure he is saying the same things to the AP, not as much because he is a liar (which he is anyway!) but because this affair has shattered his mind and body. And he doesn’t know anymore what he wants. He knows he loves his family but he also likes very much the emotions he is experiencing with the AP. He would probably like to keep having both, he needs the "car" that represents a safe haven, but he wants also the "motorbike" where he feels the speed, the bends, the adrenaline.

It took my husband a while to make a decision. He kept investing in our couple and he was in touch (from a big geographical distance) with the ex AP. He wanted to feel validated, to be attractive, to be silly, to be selfish but he didn’t want to lose me, he was for a long time a cake eater.

I could have done things differently. I suffered a lot. Today I am feeling good about myself and our relationship has changed for the better. We will be 5 years out of D-day soon. I wish you good luck and a very good therapist who can help you. Big hug to you.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 7:01 PM, Tuesday, September 10th]

His actions have shown that he has quite a few reasons for not wanting you to file for divorce, none of which have anything to do with his love for you or his commitment to the marriage. You've identified a few reasons (losing face with his daughters, public shame) but here's a few potential (but likely) other reasons:

1. Check with a lawyer but if your state recognizes adultery as grounds for divorce, then there could be legal/financial consequences for your husband. You might also be able to list is OW as his adultery partner in the divorce papers, which would expose her.

2. He doesn't want his OW's husband to find out about their affair.

3. He doesn't have his ducks in a row yet (legally or financially) so he wants to you to hold off on filing for divorce until he can blindside you with filing at a time that is strategically advantageous to him.

Given the reasons above, the fact that he refused to give up his OW, and that he's currently is using marital funds to conduct his affair, you really don't have a choice other than to retain a lawyer and start the process yourself. You have nothing to work with.

If you're anxious about starting the process, let me share the following cautionary tale:

When my aunt was in the process of divorcing her a-hole husband, she started off with the upperhand. Her lawyer was outmaneuvering her ex's, and the judge had been ruling consistently in her favor. At the 11th hour, her ex told her that he wanted to try for reconciliation. She stopped the divorce. Her lawyer advised her against it but she didn't listen (after all, the lawyer doesn't get a big pay day if she stays married).

For a year, my aunt tried to work things out with her a-hold husband and he reneged on every promise he made to get her to stop the divorce. She decided to start the process up again, but a lot had happened in that 1 year, namely the 2008 financial crash, which depleted the value of their shared assets and decreased his bonus-based income, and the original judge who had been assigned to her case retired and was replaced by a new judge who was much less sympathetic toward her. Plus, her lawyer didn't feel motivated to fight with the same zeal as she did previously.

Long story short, my aunt got screwed... not only out of money and assets, but out of time and dignity. Worse, on top of the pain she suffered from the divorce process, she had the added trauma of trying to recover from the absolute mind-fuck that is false reconciliation.

My advice in summary: Do not get caught flat-footed. Start the process now. If your husband begs and pleads for you to stay, tell him to put his mouth where his money is and give you a generous settlement that goes above and beyond what you would be entitled under the law. Then, when the divorce is finalized, you'll consider dating him.

Trust me, you'll have a perfectly clear picture of his intentions after making an offer like that.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:47 PM, Tuesday, September 10th]

I am so sorry you experienced this.

"Sickeningly, he was involved with the OW last year at our daughters wedding, where my H read wrote a toast and read a prayer about the beauty of marriage and fidelity"

Everyone’s experience is different. I can only share mine. I too was married to someone who had a secret second life where what they claimed were there values is not what their life showed.

My exwh used my decency towards him and my willingness to save the marriage to (among other things) legally protect himself against the consequences of his adultery by getting me to have sex with him when I was suspicious he had cheated so he could argue that I "condoned" his adultery.

As a person who loved and cared for their spouse, I was truly shocked as to what exwh has been capable of.

I regret not immediately acting to protect myself financially spiritually physically and emotionally the first time he showed me who he was. If he chose to do the hard work of fixing what was broken in him that he could do what he did to me, then and only then should I even considered him being in my life.

"From what you posted, he does not sound remorseful or concerned about anyone but himself.
You need to protect yourself and focus on you."

I found this group gave me the experience strength and hope to survive the infidelity.

Oh and one more point. When my H wanted to R I demanded a post nup.

He willingly signed it b/c he was convinced we would happily R.

Lucky for him it worked out.

My exwh used my decency towards him and my willingness to save the marriage to (among other things) legally protect himself against the consequences of his adultery by getting me to have sex with him when I was suspicious he had cheated so he could argue that I "condoned" his adultery.

Great point, SheHawk. Do not sleep with him, OP!

Besides, if he's still actively having an affair, sex with him is risky for your health.

Agapi, so sorry you're struggling with the nightmare of infidelity after investing heart and soul into a 30 year relationship. The betrayal in my situation happened in 28th year of marriage. Totally understand your pain. Of course your emotions are "raw" and you're feeling "gutted." You've been betrayed in an intimate, brutal way. Hope you're also getting angry! I'm PO'd on your behalf just reading this story! After about two months of shock and disbelief (who is this man? what the heck am I dealing with?) I got ANGRY. I learned that anger can be a useful tool. It can light a fire under you to do what's needed to take care of YOU. You're his wife of 27 years, for heaven's sake! You are not plan B! So, don't be afraid to let anger into the emotional mix. Embrace that anger. Use it.

A two year A is a lot to overcome! Hope you're getting emotional support while navigating this. Are there friends or family members you can reach out to? Don't isolate/sacrifice yourself to service his image management! It's okay to tell your daughters the truth, BTW (they deserve to know) - whether the outcome is D OR R. He wasn't thinking about you or the kids when he made selfish choices. Selfish actions have consequences! How about counseling for you? You're experiencing trauma. Self-care pronto dear lady.

As BluerThanBlue wisely outlined above, self-care MUST include financial self-care. See a lawyer (or two or three), make sure you have access to all finances, etc. One of the benefits to filing for D now rather than postponing = the act of filing forces a snap-shot of finances as they stand now. You can always put a stop to D proceedings later if desired - depends upon jurisdiction but D process may take MONTHS. Suggest going after ANY $$ spent on the A = gifts, airfare, hotel spa visits, etc. For two years!! Half of that money is your money. Brava for hiring a PI. Might be worth it to also hire a forensic accountant (assuming you can afford it) to protect your interests. If H works for a company, they might be interested in learning all about $$/time spent wine-ing and dining AP on their dime. Leverage for you during D? Just a thought. Agapi, getting a shifty $$$ vibe from your H's behavior. Has he always been a "rules for thee but not for me" kind of guy? Protect yourself financially - whether you go OR stay.

Of course he doesn't want you to file for D. He wants to sit on that fence as long as he can. The longer he keeps you in limbo the better it is for him = you'll keep quiet/ protect his image with the kids and family + he has time to get his financial ducks in a row + he and AP have time to coordinate stories + he can postpone financial consequences + limbo gives him space to create false narratives about how and why the marriage ended, maybe even plant false narratives about YOU.

**ETA: "but even so he is still protecting the details of the A" is yet another indicator that his primary concern is HIM....not saving the marriage. Secrecy protects HIM - and AP. Denying you the basic details of the A ( which is ANYTHING you want to know to help make informed choices about what comes next) is a power play. Knowledge is power - the less information you know about the A the more power he has. Doesn't seem like there's much to work with here.**

Hope you will tell the OBS ASAP (after consulting with your lawyer) and share the proof with them. They deserve to know the truth about their marriage. Don't tell your H you're doing this, just do it. Bonus to telling OBS = Dragging the hidden A into the light of day is a sure way to pop the A fantasy bubble.

And get tested for STDs including pelvic screening for HPV ASAP.

AND put YOURSELF first for a change. Do things that feed your soul - things that you like to do. Exercise? Movies? Time with friends and family? Meditation? A Divorce support group? You can do it. Hang in there Agapi!

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 4:31 PM, Wednesday, September 11th]

Hi there, agapi-

I am so sorry to hear of your story. I had to step back after reading it because it made me so mad. Your WH's intentions and motives are clear as day to me and the levels of disrespect and audacity are off the freaking charts.

I mean right off the top, he has demonstrated that he does not have your best interest in mind. He has also demonstrated that he has the capacity for insane levels of deception. He also is no longer tethered to reality if he thinks he has any standing whatsoever to ask you to mitigate any fallout from his choices. He quite literally fired you from being a wife, supporting him and cleaning up his messes is no longer your concern. I have a feeling that you have been going behind him and cleaning up his messes, both literal and figurative, for decades. It is so ingrained in you, that you almost can't help it. Stop that RIGHT NOW.

By not making an immediate choice, he is making a choice. He is using your good nature AGAINST you. What is the best thing about you is now your biggest weakness. He does not respect you. You just don't do this to people you respect. He doesn't love you, and I know that is hard to hear because you deserve ALL OF THE LOVE, but you have to understand people like him have never felt real love.

There are a couple of things you need to internalize:

1. Not your fault. You were already good enough. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his need for external validation. Shakira was cheated on. Melinda Gates was cheated on. MacKenzie Bezos was cheated on. Gwen Stefani was cheated on. Freaking Beyonce was cheated on! The most beautiful, successful, and richest among us have been cheated on. Everyone thinks their WHs were morons. And they were. And so is your wayward.

2. Take control of the narrative. He did a shitty thing that shows that he has a lack of character and makes him look bad. I don't know, maybe if you don't want people or kids to think you are a shitty person, don't do shitty things? Please tell your circle at the minimum. It's called consequences and agapi is no longer carrying water for this loser.

3. Marriage is dead. Even if y'all reconcile, your marriage is dead. Reconciliation is HARD. The cheaters have to look inward and acknowledge that they are the villain in other people's stories by their own choices and doing. They have to change their thought pattern, the way they act in public, learn to establish boundaries, etc. It is not a fun process and most cheaters would rather just break up than change.

4. They are absolutely in fantasy world with none of the realities of daily life. The biggest thing you could do to shatter that fantasy is to broadside him with divorce. You can stop divorce at any time, but to be honest, I think this man has been holding you back for a loooooooooooooooooooooong time. I think you are going to be very surprised at how much you prefer life without him once you get through the painful part.

You will go through the stages of grief as you mourn the loss of your future and as you reconcile your past with reality. It is not linear and you will take three steps forward and sometimes two steps back. That is okay. If you are not in therapy, i would highly recommend it. This stuff is crazy making and it helps to have a third party validating you that this is outrageous and you have choices.

And please remember, when two women fight over a piece of shit, the winner gets a piece of shit. So, uh, just think about that.

To clarify, Sisoon stated:

My reco is to never threaten anything, much less D, unless you're ready to impose the consequence. Now is the time for total honesty and no attempt to manipulate.

I agree. My advice was that in order to get out of infidelity on your own terms (as opposed to sitting around waiting/playing the pick me dance) is to separate and/or file for divorce with the caveat that (like me) you may find yourself later divorced but still in a relationship, or like The1stWife you may find yourself still married, or like leafields you may find yourself indeed, divorced....but what all three of us have in common is when we put our foot down and took action on our own, our living in infidelity stopped.

That is my point (and something I so wish I had done soooooo much sooner as limbo, sitting where you are dear OP, was so damaging to my psyche, my self-esteem, my health, long term). Stop giving away the control in the situation to your WS - someone who CLEARLY should not be in control of the vehicle that is your marriage - and take it back. While your WS may want to sit around trying to "decide" or whatever - clearly he does not have your best interest at heart or he would not let you sit in this miserable limbo for a second longer. While you may feel right now that keeping your WS with you, even if he is pining away for (or worse) another person is better than losing them altogether, trust me, it's not.

EDIT: Apparently there are some people (see Fantastic's post above) who just allowed their WS to eat cake for years and managed to come out a sane individual. My WH had an A for 2 years and false-R was more than half of that. I can tell you my WH remaining in touch with the AP during that time just about KILLED me (and had it continued and I had stayed - one of us would be in the morgue and the other in jail eventually because I would have flipped out eventually), and I would argue with Fantastic that it's absolutely not an acceptable course of action to allow your spouse to "feel validated, to be attractive, to be silly, to be selfish" by an AP because your spouse also doesn't want to lose you. Every second my WH did that it showed me (and would show anyone in that position) that you, their spouse, does not matter as much as their own needs TO THE POINT they will cause you immense pain and misery to accomplish them - in other words, you cannot trust this person to consider you at all. I'm sorry Fantastic's post really angers me because Fantastic is basically saying that sometimes to stay married it's okay to let your spouse take a shit on you daily so they can feel special. No. It's not. And, that kind of behavior is like handing your WS a free pass to do it again. No. Just no.

_______End of edited post.

So, the person who has your best interest at heart should be - YOU.

Take control of the narrative. He did a shitty thing that shows that he has a lack of character and makes him look bad. I don't know, maybe if you don't want people or kids to think you are a shitty person, don't do shitty things?

This made me almost jump out of my chair (yes BigMama...I gave you a virtual high five). The AP in my world contacted me blaming me for "trying to ruin her 3-4 year old's life by outing the A to the OBS (who was someone I knew)). My response to her was: "It was not my responsibility to keep your marriage and your child safe from the liars and cheaters of the world and the consequences of dealing with them. That was your job. You failed and instead you became one. Do better."

OP - if you read what the AP in my life said I'm sure you were thinking, what an _____ (insert whatever negative word you'd like here). Your WH is also trying to make you somehow responsible for this nightmare. Don't fall for it. IMO, with a true fantasy land A like your WS had (is having?) the only thing you can do to snap him out of the fantasy is to give him some reality. If the reality is/are consequences he doesn't like, all the better.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:35 PM, Tuesday, September 10th]

BigMammaJamma:

Your response was so amazing! Mic drop. I wish you and I had been on this site when I was finding out what had been going on in my life.

Agapi, this lady is shooting it to you straight. As are all the people who have weighed in.