SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone

About 5 weeks ago I discovered WH was having a 1.5 year long affair with a woman he met in AA. I found out when I saw a text message I wasn't meant to see. I wasn't even snooping. He was showing me a picture someone sent him on his phone, and there was a suspicious text from her at the top of his inbox. Immediately I knew something was off.

Long story short, he eventually came clean. D-day was brutal. I got the gist of the truth, then he continued to trickle truth me over the next 2 weeks with details he initially lied about. This was a PA and somewhat of an EA; they were sober buddies after all. WH moved out after the first couple days to stay with family (at my request), so I continued to hound him about details, timeline, "how could you's", whatever emotionally driven thing was on my mind over the phone and text. I'm the type of person who wants to know every single thing.

WH says he wants to reconcile. For the last 3 weeks or so, he says he's been completely transparent and honest. To his minimal credit, he is answering every inane and lascivious question I throw at him. I don't know if I believe him, but whatever. I spoke to some attorneys in the weeks after D-day only to learn that I stand to lose more than he does if things went sideways in a divorce (financially speaking at least; I'm the higher earner and always have been, with a higher earning potential in general. Can you imagine if I had to pay this mf-er alimony? Absolutely not.) Worth mentioning we have no children.

I've been listening to and reading some of Esther Perel's work to try to understand infidelity as a whole, and she says something interesting in one of her talks. Basically, most adults in the western world will have 2-3 major romantic partners in their lives. After infidelity, the marriage as you know it is over. The question is then - do you want your next marriage/major relationship to be with the same person, or someone new?

My questions that bring me to this message board is: how do you determine if reconciling is worth it, and how do you know they're doing the "right" things to reconcile?

My WH is doing the following, mostly of his own accord:

-I have full access to his computer, which he left at home with me (meaning I have access to all text messages, emails, etc.)
-Location sharing on 24/7 and will be for the rest of his life, if I were to stay
-Going to men's only AA and NA groups, multiple times a week again for the rest of his life, if I were to stay
-Is in IC
-Cut off contact with AP and wrote her a final NC letter, which I read and will mail this week (I'm in contact with OBS, so I warned him it was coming so he can read it if he wants :))
-Texting me daily to check in and see how I'm feeling. Sometimes I answer, sometimes I don't.
-Does not get defensive when I ask him the same kinds of questions over and over (there was a few times where he got defensive in the beginning but I shut that down real quick)
-Brought up and suggested a postnuptial agreement as a way to make me more comfortable so I could protect my assets. I had never heard of this before and did my own research, including speaking to multiple attorneys about how they function in my state. Turns out, they are legit if done correctly.
-Wrote out a detailed timeline of the affair at my request, including every date/time/location they were physical as far as he can remember (at my request)
-Cut off the friend group he manipulated to hide the affair
-Wants to go to MC but I think we both need more time in IC before that happens
-Is selling some of his expensive hobby-related items to offset the cost of me buying a new bed because he brought AP into our home and I could not stand sleeping in the bed they were intimate in

We're still so early in this process and I'm so hurt/devastated/angry/betrayed etc so I won't make any decisions until I'm more emotionally stable. I'm also in IC on my own. I'm just so confused and lost. Would love to hear other's perspectives.

Welcome to SI and sorry that you're here. Fire me, Esther Perel has some of the worst advice for BSs (betrayed spouses) ever. While she might have some good things to say, she is very much in the WS's (wayward spouse) side.

There are some pinned posts at the top of the JFO (Just Found Out) forum. There are some posts with bull's eye icons that are full of great information.

The Healing Library has a lot of great information, including the list of acronyms we use.

Watch his actions and not his words. Cheaters lie and then lie some more.

Definitely do IC (individual counseling) until healed enough to do MC (marriage counseling) because MC's have a tendency to shift the blame to you under the unmet needs fallacy.

For me, I took 6 month increments to evaluate the issues and go from there. FWIW, it took me 18 months to decide. YMMV.

leafields - yeah, I don't agree with a lot of what Esther Perel says. I think I'm just trying to understand the why and the how behind WH's affair from a clinical perspective. I know this is likely a fruitless chase.

I've been reading through the pinned posts all over this forum and they're very helpful.

With regards to "show" versus "tell" in WS's actions - I find it hard to figure this out because he is not living in the same house as me. I don't want to see him yet. So right now it's just words and some actions because I don't want to be in the same physical space as him.

Sigh. I take some comfort in hearing it took you 18 months to decide. I'm sorry you were ever in that position to begin with. I don't want to rush this at all.

Crushed, let me just say a thousand kudos to you for how you've handled this so far. Although everyone and their mother says they wouldn't take shit from the WS if they found out that their spouse was cheating, the vast majority of us don't.

You, on the other hand, haven't accepted his lies, made him leave, consulted with a lawyer to get a clear picture of what D would look like for you, and are putting the onus on him to prove himself to you and win you back. Most importantly of all, you haven't gone straight to marriage counseling; you're starting with IC first. That makes it clear to your WH that this is entirely a "him cheating" issue and not a "something's wrong with the marriage issue." Further, during these early stages, you need someone who is going to give you advice based on what's in your best interests, not in the interest of staying together.

Will all of this guarantee that reconciliation will be successful and that your husband's cheating days are over? No. But you have a better chance than you would have if you took him back unconditionally, pick-me danced, allowed him to weigh his options, and/or allowed yourself to be petrified by fear of taking action.

I think all of the things your husband is doing and, more importantly, the fact that he's doing them proactively, is a great start. The question will be whether he can sustain this level of intense effort in the long-term. So here's my practical advice:

(1) Take him up on his offer of a post-nuptial agreement ASAP. Strike while the iron is hot and he's desperate to win you back. Don't give him time to second-guess himself or run it by his friends.

Also, keep in mind that in order for a prenup to be enforceable, it must be fair and it must be reviewed and signed-off on by a separate attorney hired by him. So don't go into it demanding EVERYTHING. Prioritize the things that are most important to you, such as protecting your pension, retaining sole ownership of a specific asset (for example, a piece of property that's been in your family for generations), or not paying alimony.

(2) If he's in AA and NA, then obviously addiction is something he struggled with before the affair; this woman was likely a stand-in for booze or drugs. Before agreeing to attempt reconciliation, I really do think you need to seriously consider what his addictions have already cost you emotionally, mentally, financially, and (possibly) physically.

(3) Get tested for STDs. Both your husband and OW were engaged in high-risk behavior, even before the affair. The most dangerous lie you could possibly believe is that they were using protection.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:51 PM, Tuesday, September 17th]

Read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald.

It outlines the behaviors of a strong rebuilder, and also outlines the behaviors of a well intentioned but uninformed WS.

... only to learn that I stand to lose more than he does if things went sideways in a divorce

Learned the same from my lawyer. Really chapped my ass, but I would be lying if I didn't say that getting cheated on then fucked over by no-fault divorce laws didn't put more practical emphasis on going with R.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 10:01 PM, Tuesday, September 17th]

@BluerThanBlue - thank you for the kind words. I did end up retaining an attorney to start on the postnup matter today. I checked with WH to make sure this is something he really wants to do before I waste money on a retainer etc., and he assures me it is. Really hoping that will give me some peace of mind.

I also did get tested for STI's. In fact, it was on a monumental day in my career that should have been spent celebrating but... you gotta do what you gotta do, I suppose.

The addiction element with WH makes this especially complicated. I went into this marriage knowing I'd have to contend with that and support him in his sobriety, which was no problem at all! I was such a chill and trusting wife. That came back to bite me in the ass.

@This0is0Fine - I've started that book. WH bought it on his own (and finished it) when he saw I bought it for myself. I haven't made it far yet, but I'll make more of an effort with it.

Living in a no fault divorce state sucks, doesn't it?

Let’s get one thing out of the way:

What is the price for your happiness?

If the only reason you stay in the marriage is the cost of alimony... well... you have the price tag to your happiness...

Not saying you should divorce. In fact, it does sound like he’s doing what is required.
Personally – because I read your original posts – if you want to give this marriage a shot then get that postnup and make 100% certain it’s done in a way that will not get it torn by a judge.
Then I would place immense focus on him working on his sobriety...
I truly 100% don’t think he’s capable of reconciling if he isn’t well on his way to an ongoing sober life. That postnup might make it financially worth it to give this marriage a 6-12 month shot to see if he a) maintains his sobriety, b) is still participating (note I didn’t say going to... PARTICIPATING) in AA and c) he really is the man you want as your husband, rather than the man you don’t want to pay alimony to.
BTW – you never answered my question regarding if he had relapsed...

Hi @ Bigger

Sorry for not answering your question about WH and if he relapsed. I'm still learning how to use the forum.

With regards to alcohol, WH says he never relapsed, not once since stopping drinking 9-ish years ago. However, he did struggle with abusing some prescription meds for a legitimate medical thing (think: stimulants). First time was in 2020, which we worked through and he doubled his efforts with AA. At the time he felt he didn't need NA; in retrospect it was dumb of me not to push that, but I trusted him understanding his sobriety needs better than me. As part of D-day, WH revealed he'd been abusing his prescription meds again for the last 6 months or so. It was a different medication from before, to treat the same thing. He's since stopped it, and is actively going to NA meetings as well as AA meetings and working with his sponsor.

Once the postnup is in place, I can see myself giving this 6-12 months to see if he can actually be the man he says he can be. I'm still so angry and hurt that I cannot see the good in him that I fell in love with years ago, but there must have been something I liked about him. I did love him. Wholly and fully, with every fiber of my being. Now that part of my heart is walled off.

Sometimes I get so annoyed that the A and R seems to revolve so much around WS. Everything has to do with THEIR actions and THEIR flaws and THEIR abilities. In the meantime, I guess I have no choice but to focus on myself. It's been nice to watch whatever the hell I want on the TV.

I am sorry that you are here and feeling this pain. The questions you pose-- what makes you feel better when thinking about reconciling.. To me it came down to what made me feel safe... You touched on a lot of those points. My husband was no longer allowed to take "boy" trips, which he happily gave up. He has to be willing to do anything you ask. I always say it is worth visiting reconciliation with a spouse that shows remorse, regret, and who is willing to jump through hoops for you to show that this will never happen again, but counseling is needed. I will pray for you to get through this very difficult time. God Bless.

Start with yourself. IMO, the question you need to answer is: Do I want to spend the rest of my life with this person if he doesn't change? If he does (change from cheater to good partner)?

Also, one can decide to D and actually do it. With R, you have to keep redeciding, multiple times a day ast first.

R & M require a lot of issue resolution, and lots of the issues need to be resolved together. If you can't come to a resolution that satisfies both of you, D comes back into the realm of possibility.

It took me 90 days to decide to go for R and 3.5-4 years to decide the possibility of hitting a deal-killing issue was trivial, but even now, I know if one arises, I/we will have to deal with it. I still question my decision regularly - because something on SI makes me - but I always conclude that I'm glad I chose R.

Fof9303 - thank you for the kind words. I don't know if I feel safe yet, or if I ever will. That's one of the hardest parts about this process. I'm glad you are doing better now.

sisoon - These are excellent questions. As for spending the rest of my life with WH (if he does manage to change) - I have such a hard time with this. I can't rectify the man I used to love and consider my best friend with the person who hurt me so deeply and betrayed my trust so severely. There used to be so much good in this marriage... until I found out about all the lies, manipulation, and cheating.

Damn, this is so hard.

crushed,

Yes, recovering from being betrayed is difficult.

Trust me on this, though. You can do it. It will take longer than you want it to. You have the strength you need.

Gently, at best it takes a lot longer than 6 weeks. Sister, you're still probably in shock. My experience was the shock started to wear off about 6 weeks out. Your timeline is likely to be different from mine, but I suspect that it takes most of us about 6 weeks to start to get grounded again.

Have some faith in yourself to heal.

Crushed

I’m no expert but to me it sounds like your husband is the type of addict who can get addicted to whatever he can get across.
My late BIL was an alcoholic. Only he was what is called a "functional alcoholic" – a term I hate and really don’t understand. But he worked all his life, made a good income and could afford his drinks-of-choice: whiskey and brandy. He was "functioning" fine, even when he had that fatal work-accident. Overseeing his estate I also witnessed how "functional" his private life and finances were...
I also witnessed alcoholics as a cop. The type that sleep on benches and do whatever is needed for their next fix. If that was beer – great. Vodka – great. But if they had to resolve to cheap after-shave or hair-tonic... great. They would be passed out, near dead reeking like some 50’s Italian film-star.
Then there is the type that drinks, pops pills, shoots IV, snorts... whatever. Whatever is available and get’s them some form of fix.

The desperation? IMHO it tends to be hinged on the income.

Now – I am not saying your husband is a pill-popping, hair-tonic drinking potential heroin addict...

What I am suggesting though is that although he can be without alcohol, he eventually replaced that with another addiction. He might replace THAT with something else... He has an addictive inclination, and he has to be totally aware of that.

This is actually quite common. My wife – an ICU nurse – recognizes the recovering addicts that note their addiction and receive special treatment once off the opiates and sedatives that might otherwise trigger their dormant addictions from yesteryears. Something your husband might have to deal with in a medial situation in the future.

Not that it really matters IMHO.

I get a sense that if you had the option you would like to TRY to reconcile.
If this is wrong, then just go and divorce. But if true...

Tell him you are placing your decision to commit to the marriage or divorce on ice for 6 months. At that time, you will either commit to a 3 month extension, or let him know you want out. You can repeat this maybe for the first year (but after that remaining in this limbo isn’t good for either of you).

Your wish is that for NOW he focus on his sobriety. That gets more prominence than the actual marriage. The emphaisis might change the safer you both get in his sobriety.

Get the post-nup drafted, signed and notarized. The key tends to be non-draconian. Like you cant outline that he get’s nothing and you get everything. But you can define a fixed price for the family home, a refusal for spousal support or a one-time payment in lieu of ongoing alimony and/marital assets. Be fair – like a 80/20 split wont cut it, but a 60/40 might.
Consider having a timeframe. Like this post-nup is valid until 2035.

Once you have that piece of peace... I think you will have an easier time moving on for the next six months.

@sisoon - thank you for the kind words. I needed a reminder that it will take time.

@bigger - Actively working on the post nup with my attorney this week. I'm hoping that will give me some peace of mind so I can think longer term... I don't know if I can tell him "6 months for reconciliation potential" right now. I agree that he does need to work on his sobriety actively. I hate how much this is about him and "his needs."

I'm in a very bitter and angry headspace still.