SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone, it’s been awhile since I've been here. This is long, but I’m posting it anyway. Kind of a rant.

TLDR; XW and I have been on and off dating over the last couple years. Now a guy has moved in with her after they have been together for about two months. I've got old pain, emotions…etc. Skip to the end for the question.

I need some help. Some real, objective help. Here's the backstory, summarized as much as I could.

My unemployed-by-choice wife (now ex) feel in love with a married man (who lives 2000 miles away) she met on a singing app in 2016. Said he was her 'twin flame' and justified her actions with how bad our marriage was. She met him physically in 2017, late 2017 we tried to reconcile, but eventually in 2018 she moved out. During that time she and I were on-and-off. We really do get along, but it took me a few years to sort the dynamics out. I filed for divorce, and I regret it every day. She wasn't fighting for the marriage like I was, and I thought that it would 'wake her up.'

In 2019 she and I began what you would call dating...but she didn't want to label it. We were sleeping together, and she would often ask me to stay over, but because the teenage kids were home (they lived with me) I would always go home at night. It got weird one night when I dropped by her place with Chinese food, a bottle of wine, and had a good movie ready to go. Shortly after that we had a disagreement - I can't remember what about, but she told me that was it, we were done.

She opened contact with the twin flame guy again. I guess his wife found out again, because later he disappeared, and low and behold, she had a heart to heart with me. Her step father had just passed away, so there was some self reflection. Kind of apologized and explained that although he meant a great deal to her, she realized that it wasn't meant to be.

About two months later, she was moving in with her mom. I helped her move (as did the now over 18 kids). During the setup of a space for her singing, she and I were a little flirty I guess. Her brother (who I am good friends with) must have noticed this because got the heck out of there, and about 20 minutes later she was all over me. Not gonna lie here, I tried to resist knowing that it was a bad idea. So, back to dating again.

She again didn't want to label it, but did ask me "you don't want to get back together, do you?" There was somewhat of an accusing tone, and out of self protection I replied "hell no!" Regret. I should have been honest and open. Of course I did.

A couple of months later we were going to go to a casino for a road trip, but instead we ended up on a road trip to Vermont. I now realize she wanted the casino trip because it's out of her comfort zone and just wanted me to plan it. She wanted me to 'take the lead' and make it all happen. But I thought that we were in a true partnership where we plan together, like when we were first married. Anyway, and when we were at a diner having breakfast, she said something that has always bothered me. She said:

"You're never gonna change."

She told me I was getting all 'starry eyed' and she pulled away, physically and emotionally right then and there.

When we got back we had an argument about our youngest daughter moving into college and how she wanted to be the one to move her in to the dorm as she missed out with the older daughter, but our youngest daughter didn't want her help. I had to be the bad guy and make sure that the XW understood our daughters stance.

I guess my XW wasn't putting in the time to repair the relationship with her kids. Well the XW told me "Just leave me alone, don’t bother calling me or texting me again." And just like that, it was over. I didn't try and call or text. I stayed away.

Weeks later she started 'seeing' a different guy who lived in GA - over the internet - also from the singing app. Eventually she went to meet him there and he ended up following her back home for two weeks. She told me about all of this (don't know why – probably to male me jealous). I sent one simple text: "RED FLAG." After the two weeks he went home, and two months later he passed away by his own hand. There's more to it, but that's not my story to tell.

Eventually her mom sold the house and bought a duplex in town, and rented out the lower half to the XW. I've been over there many times, and we have had many moments where I felt I had to leave. Long stares, reminders of old feelings, and the occasional hug. At the time I knew she was communicating with the twin flame again, but that was a report from one of my now adult kids. They happened to see it by total mistake.

I have ignored texts for days from her, been unavailable to help (except in emergencies) and pretty much happy.

About three months ago, things changed. She no longer wanted a conversation. She dismissed me. You guessed it by now - she was seeing someone. But not anyone...in 2002, when our youngest was almost 2, she had an EA with a coworker that ended up a PA. Difference was then I told her "get it out of your system - just sleep with him and stop talking about him to me." She had expressed it was something she wanted to try and I thought I was being mature. They broke the rule I gave them about protection. It gets so much worse...but we got though it together. And we were stronger for it for a while.

She is now living with this guy. It tore me to pieces all over again. She told my kids it was 'casual.' But....living together. And said he was a friend from high school....but he went to a different high school all together...and I knew him prior to meeting my ex wife... Anyway, now I feel truly replaced. She told my oldest 'don't tell your father, I want to be sensitive of his feelings.' My oldest said "I think that time has passed. He's way over you and probably won't care."

Thing here that gets me is when we were married (also re-dating) I could never get her to do anything fun. I would suggest "let’s go for a walk." Nope. "Let’s go bowling" Nope. "Let’s go out tonight and see what we can find to do." Nope, she wants to stay home. Now? She is out hiking with this guy, going on trips, having a good time.

As I type this out, looking for some sort of comfort, I can see how I have been manipulated over and over. I have been used. She never repaired the relationship with the kids. In fact, she is never there for them.

So why does it hurt so badly all over again? And when will I ever feel whole? It's been 5 years since divorce and I still held onto hope we would get back together. I blew it twice, but did I really blow it? Maybe I’m just jealous? Maybe I feel like II want to ‘win’ the divorce. But deep down, way deep, locked away, I still love he like the day we married, and maybe I regret not having the future we were supposed to have once the kids were all grown up. The time we were going to spend together checking off the bucket list. That’s why we wanted to have kids before 30 anyway…so we could enjoy the adventure of having a family and then adventure again later on in life. I guess maybe I’m still mourning the death of our marriage and what could have been.

How do I get closure?

As for the twinflame guy, well he never left his wife. He was never going to leave his wife and his expensive house, his family, etc. If only I had listened to my Dad, maybe our marriage could have been saved. But sadly my Dad passed in 2021. One of the last things he said to me was "don't give up on it yet Kid. Either way, I'm proud of you. You'll be just fine."

Your marriage was never gonna be saved.

You wanna know how to move on? Let her go.

If your ex wasn't there for her own kids, she was never gonna be there for anyone. Period.

You only have to read a few posts in this forum to see that there are plenty of women out there that know how to love and value real romance and commitment.

Your ex is no longer an option. And when she tries to worm her way back into being one, you need to have a wall built to stop her. No more talking to her. No more friendly. No more anything. She doesn't value you as anything more than a mark to be conned.

Move on by moving on.

The good news is that you realize you need closure. That's a positive step.

2x4 coming.

Walk immediately to a mirror and slap your reflection. Seriously. Your wife is toxic and damaged, and you're fueling her by being available. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy." Read it again if you have already read it.
She abandoned her children, but you think she can love you? She is way beyond hope right now, and odds are she will never be safe.
Get into IC and really work on yourself. I'd be willing to bet you have a lot to offer another--less awful--partner.
When she sees you moving on, she'll start acting like you have a shot with her. Then the cycle starts again. Cut her off and lock the door. Break the cycle.
Stay strong, brother.

I'm simultaneously hugging you and shaking you.

You get closure by not keeping a toxic, vapid, manipulative person around you for the last 5 years.

You get closure by being real with yourself and no longer tolerating behaviors that hurt you.

You get closure by really seeing who they are and not sweeping that under the rug or twisting yourself up accepting unacceptable treatment.

I totally get how hard it is to let go, but you really haven't even tried that yet. You plunked a pot on her back burner and willingly got in it and have just been marinating for years. She's been using you for her own purposes every time she hasn't had someone else in the picture to provide her with her ego kibbles.

My friend, you deserve so much better than this, and you'll have your closure when you believe that too.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I can imagine it's very painful emotionally.

I wouldn't worry about your W. I expect she'll revert to the same behavior you saw after a while with this guy. Her relationship problems are hers. Even if my prediction doesn't come to pass, her relationship problems are hers.

NC (No Contact) means no new hurts. If you can't stay away from XW, a good IC can help. Everyone has imperfections - you're not going to find a perfect partner. But you and XW just don't work well.

Why are you blaming yourself?

You were both in this marriage and the post D relationship. I don’t get a sense she sent clear signals or was open and forthcoming with her feelings.

It feels more cat and mouse - she asks a loaded question and expects you to have ESP to answer the question to her liking.

I think the reason you are not together is b/c she’s not to be trusted and you recognize that. If the Ex wanted to be with you - she would not be dating others.

Just my two cents.

Imagine you’re on a ship, sailing through your life.

Your ex-wife was a port, and when you spent time in that port you had some good times and some really bad times. You got some fantastic souvenirs - your kids, and you put them onboard with you and they are part of that ship forever.

But you got kicked out of that port. It was a good thing, too, because it’s not a great place to anchor. The ship gets vandalized, over and over - every time you go there, there’s a person who boards, ransacks the ship, takes everything, sets a fire, and then kicks you out of the port AGAIN.

You keep trying to sail away from that port, but that person has installed some kind of anchor on your ship - you KNOW IT IS THERE, but you won’t cut the chain. You could. You won’t.

Instead, you choose to sail your ship to the end of that anchor chain, until it stops you, and you sail right back to that port, where that person can board again, set fires again, and you let it burn onboard until you get kicked out again.

How many times will you choose to let her set your world on fire?

You are choosing this.

You know how it will end. Again and again.

I’m a total stranger, and you have told me that you already know how it will end.

So I need to ask you - how many more times do you plan to sail back to that port before you CHOOSE to cut the anchor chain?

You cannot rescue her relationship with her kids. Only she can do that, and she has to want to do that. Right now, she doesn’t. She seems to want to do a lot of self-indulgent stuff right now. That’s the mode she is in. You cannot save her - - -

Your anchor will drown you.

What closure do you want?

What does that mean exactly?

Isn't closure, her literally going cold on you time and time again. The unreliability and quite frankly the continued emotional abuse?

You're being emotionally mature with someone with tremendous immaturity.

Sometimes there is no "closure" just rip the bandaid off and start to live your life.

No doubt the emotional manipulator will try to weave you back into her web if she senses you leaving.

Closure is a fresh start. Closure is the right to choice over whom you get to share your life with.

Sir your ex is a dumpster fire and quite frankly you should use this time to grieve her then purge her fully from your system and reboot.

Closure? That happens when you finally end the relationship for good. She does not love you, she loves the convenience of you. You boost her ego up when nobody else is around to do it. She's been very clear from the start that she doesn't want you as anything more than her FWB and ego stroker. You're the back up plan. Why are you ok with that? I suggest you go NC and get into therapy. If you're in therapy, fire them and get a better counselor that can help you see your worth.

Have you dated or attempted to date, any others since you divorced 5 years ago? Or did you only 'date' your XWW? I don't see it in your post. If not, why not?

Not sure what closure you need or want, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you won’t find it or get it with or from her.

Hi everyone, Thank you for your candor. It's kind of what I really needed. I took the week to think about why I was feeling this way, and after reading all the replies I have realized I'm hung up on what I thought my future would be, and it really has nothing to do with the XWW. As many pointed out, she is manipulative and self centered. I honestly don't know what I was thinking getting up set over her next relationship. This is who she is, and until she has that true self reflection that is required, she will never change. And that self reflection may never come. Her business is HER business.

There was a question asking if I had dated since the divorce. Yes, I gave it a shot, but unfortunately it didn't go as I would have hoped. I had a hard time believing that I wasn't being played, so I suppose I have some trust issues to get over. Regardless, I was able to spot red flags right away and none of them went beyond a first date. Hell, there was one date where she admitted to me she was 'separated' but living with her Husband. After being in that situation myself, I got the hell out of there as soon as I could.

Someone else pointed out that if she wanted to be with me, she would have. This is true. I was thinking about the disagreement regarding our youngest daughter moving into her dorm at college. If the XWW cared about the relationship between us, she wouldn't have pushed me to influence our daughter to change her mind, and more importantly, she would have tried to resolve the conflict between us. XWW just doesn't give a damn unless it's supporting her goals. And usually her 'at that exact moment' goals.

I still have a long way to go. I've been in IC previously to help me develop tools to deal with the divorce and the challenges that I would face. Having the girls with me gave me a new understanding of what a single parent life is like. I was not prepared, although I would never admit it to the kids. I was there, and I was doing the best I could. My oldest has often said she was glad that I stepped up and made it work for us. In fact, two days ago she commented "this isn't right to say, but I'm glad she (XWW) doesn't live here anymore. Besides she isn't part of the core family." As a matter of point here, she doesn't call her 'mom.' she calls her by her first name. Yeah, it kinda hurt when she said that, but she speaks the truth.

My rant was based on sorrow, regrets, and loneliness.

I appreciate everyone helping me get my head out of my rear.

Imo you haven't closed the book on the future dreams you had with your EX. You have first hand knowledge that she is not in any way a reliable partner. But you still have the fantasy of the future dreams. That fantasy includes your EX and in that fantasy your EX is the partner you want her to be. Many relationship experts say the most difficult part of ending a relationship is the killing of the future dreams you had with that person. Killing a dream is extremely difficult- for many worse than ending a toxic relationship. You haven't killed the dream or fantasy, so you haven't reached acceptance. Accepting the facts is not the same thing as true acceptance. Letting go of the dreams also involves - killing the fantasy that somehow you can control the outcome. I read this all over your post - if you would've done x,y,z things would've been different and your past and future would be just like you planned for it to be. Your choices and actions don't control your exes poor behavior or worse character. I think it's probably safe to say you loved her a great deal, supported her a great deal, and irrationally did more than you should have. You can't ask for a better past or recreate a better past. Let it go. You won't get a better future until you accept the reality that you can't build one with a terrible partner. Sometimes closure doesn't look like what we want, but more so like what we really need.

Sisoon wrote

NC (No Contact) means no new hurts. If you can't stay away from XW, a good IC can help.

Just wanted to add that staying away means mentally too. Right now, I get the impression that even if she passed way right now, you’d maintain contact mentally. You’d be able to write page after page after page of text about her and you, and various nuances of interaction, small details, glances, hopes raised and crushed, over and over.

How many words do you think she would write about you?

Thinking got you into this relationship with her, it kept you with her, and it’s not going to get you out. It’s not helping. You know in your heart what the right thing to do is (move on like you never met her) you just need to do it. Live in the present. Train yourself to acknowledge when you are about to spend hours staring at her in the past, that you are getting ready to indulge in a gawdawful monumental waste of time with a negative outcome, even if you perversely enjoy the drama of your story. And then ask yourself what you would be doing if you weren’t getting ready to roll in the stale manure of the relationship, and do that instead.

It takes work. You have to build the positive habits. It can be done.

I think your post is a good step in the right direction. Congratulations!

For me, too, much of my pain came from the illusions that were shattered.

Dating is awful; it always has been, IMO. I do not have fond memories of having to risk 'rejection' in asking girls out. If you need advice on activities that lead to relationships, just ask. Also, SI has a forum called 'New Beginnings' for folks to talk about dating and other beginnings. I suggest you check it out.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:12 PM, Saturday, November 16th]

After dday1 I tried to reconcile with my xwh. He was not R material either, still lying and manipulating, not willing to take accountability or do the work, not willing to change. It was awful until the day came when I truly KNEW that my future wasn't with him. We divorced and my life has done nothing but improve without him in it.

Even having my said that, the death of what might have been was still the hardest most painful thing ever.

Give yourself a LOT of grace right now because none of this is easy. It's okay to not be okay right now.

Duplicate post, sorry my phone spazzed!

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 11:14 PM, Saturday, November 16th]

I thought I was over her and her crap, but I guess once these emptions rose to the surface it started all over again.

The advice here is sound. No contact seems easier than done, but her drama seeps into my household through the kids. They are usually great at navigating the BS, but since this new guy is living with her it has made things more tense between them.

Just wanted to add that staying away means mentally too.

Yes, agreed. I have used the strategy to keep myself busy. Lately Picking heavy things up and putting them down again seems to help keep my focus and out of the self-sabotaging self-pity.

With that, I today I took what seems like a huge step, but perhaps not for most of you here.

I am still paying for her health insurance though my job. In my state, the law states I must provide for her health insurance, however since our divorce there has been more definition, where it now states I must provide access to the health insurance. Not pay for it. I would have to go back to court to get this changed, but my very smart attorney (who also helped charter laws in my state in favor of men during divorce) put provisions where we are required to try and settle it ourselves, then go to a mediator, and if all else fails, back to court.

Anyway, Insurance went up a staggering $200 per month. Also, for the last two years my employer now gives us the ability to choose who is exactly on the plan and adds that person's cost at the individual level. So that comes to a whopping $4100/year that I have been giving her. I asked her to pay her share.

As I type this out, I realize how god damned selfish she really is! She has a full time, but seasonal, job. She works four months out of the year, and mommy lets her rent slide. Of course she got some guy to move in, help him get a job, drive him around, etc. He's gonna 'take care of her.' He will cover rent. And heat. And electricity. Eventually she will be unemployed AGAIN and he will be working his ass off just like I was!

I've spent WAY too much time on this entire issue. I'm gonna post this, and I'm going to move on with my life, like I was doing before she got her claws in me again. Spend time with my kids, keep advancing my career, and maybe go to to Iceland and tour the country on a motorcycle.

I must remember: Her affair(s) were NOT about me. She is a waste of my time.

I am really sorry you are experiencing this.

Many of us have stayed with the people we married long after they stopped acting married to us. My reward for my fidelity was std testing at appropriate intervals after I left him. And financial loss. Exwh and I just had different values and ideas of what is right and wrong and our values did not align. It took me decades to understand that I was having a hard time understanding his behavior because we thought and saw the world so differently.

I do recommend taking a look at new beginning and I am hoping that more people will heal and stick around to post their positive stories.

I wish you much peace and happiness.

I'm gonna post this, and I'm going to move on with my life

Amen, brother.

Whenever you sense the rabbit hole inviting yourself in, just hum the beginning to The Sound of Silence…

"Hello darkness my old friend
I’ve come to talk with you again"

…and mentally kick yourself and pick up a heavy thing.