SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't been around as much as I used to. And I certainly haven't posted in NB if a long time. But I've been thinking and I would like some honest feedback.

So most people don't know, but Bitchtits (XWW) was not my first wife. I was married before to a girl I knew in college. Let's call her FW (First Wife). We D'd in 2001. We have stayed in touch and amicable since then. We have no kids together. She remarried within six months of our D. She got preggers and "did the right thing." She now has three kids. The youngest starts HS this year. She did not cheat on me. I would laugh at you if you suggested she did.

So over the years, we've stayed in touch marginally. We are both from Michigan and have mutual friends from college and it has been fine. When things blew up with XWW (AKA Bitchtits) and i was talking with FW about it, she said something along the lines of, "I would do whatever it took to not lose time with my kids." Tuck that in the back of you head. That was almost five years ago.

A couple months ago, she sent me a text or an email saying that someone had gotten a hold of her looking for me to see if I wanted to sell my house. (I don't.) She wouldn't give them my contact info, but gave me theirs. And we emailed back and forth for a couple weeks. (You can see where this might be going- you're not exactly right)- We talked about a project she's working on with her youngest kid. It was light. Friendly. Joked around.

And not once did she mention her husband. And so I stalked her FB page. And he's not anywhere in there. I asked around and she IS still married. But I don't think they do anything together. And now go back to that statement about doing whatever it took to not losing time with her kids.

I suspect she MIGHT be on a 4 year plan. That when her youngest kid leaves home, she might, too. And if she does, I would like another shot at a relationship with her. We've both grown a lot in the past 20 years. And I could see us together again.

I'm not currently pursuing her. I did text her happy birthday on her 50th birthday. I'm not going to pursue her unless she leaves her husband on her own accord.

I'm not trying to do anything to make her leave or want to leave her husband. I will not be OM.

I would say before she got in touch with me, it had been a year or two since we had communicated last.

So the question I'm asking is, how often is appropriate to check in and say hi. Once every three or four months? Once a year? Every other?

I'm open to the idea that it is not in any way appropriate. I"m asking because I'm not sure I can be objective.

And I can read this and see just absurd it sounds. And I assure you that if something were to come up before then, I am open to that. I'm not excluding all others (there any others anyway) holding out for this "maybe." But there's also something RomCom about it. College sweathearts marry. Doesn't work out. They get divorced. Each remarries. Each gets divorced and 25 years later, they get back together to spend their old age together. Stories for the step grandkids.

In typing this, I think I've decided that since I have a brain twitch about it, the best thing to do is steer clear. I can watch from afar, but in connecting every now and then, I'm overstepping my bounds. Especially since my intent is, if I'm being honest, to keep me in her mind, even if it is only once a year.

Ok- thank you everyone for helping me think that through. If there is something I missed, feel free to tell me. I'm open.

Mn

I think it's sad how someone can go from BS to AP. You have obviously been having an EA which is fastly moving to a PA. Please cease contact, there is no reason for contact, as a parting gift get yourself and her a copy of "Not Just Friends" Does her BH know about you? Of course he may as my WH was "friends" with his AP's BS. His AP was a former Fiance. You know this is wrong yet you continue. Any person who is willing to stab the person they swore to love in the back is seriously fucked up. what if you were her husband? Have some damn empathy for god's sake.

Personally, one thing about my WH affair that puzzled me is if they were so damn special to each other why did they ever break up People need to stop looking at the grass in someone else's yard and work on making their own greener.

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 8:50 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

OK MN (former MI), I'm so glad I kept reading and found this:

In typing this, I think I've decided that since I have a brain twitch about it, the best thing to do is steer clear. I can watch from afar, but in connecting every now and then, I'm overstepping my bounds. Especially since my intent is, if I'm being honest, to keep me in her mind, even if it is only once a year.

Because I've got to tell you, I was squirming and cringing a little bit before that.

See - I picture you as such a straight-forward, in-touch, and even-keeled kind of guy. And well, yeah. I wasn't feeling that.

You know - it's probably cool in your own head that your quick foray onto memory lane was a pleasant one, but...you listed all the buts - you don't need an instant replay from me.

I can tell you this - she hasn't forgotten you, she will still keep you in mind without you texting her on her birthday or contacting her at all.

And I know it sounds trite, but if you both find your way to each other again some day, then cool. But waxing poetic about if-comes and 4 year plans and stories to tell step-kids...yeah, no. And if that rom/com - meet/cute thing happens, then hopefully it will be when neither of you has to navigate recent divorces or anything like that (plus, remember that FB is always totally curated so you don't really know what's what and her marriage is none of your business).

Have to give you huge big kudos for "thinking it out on SI" - so good to get it out of your own head no? To admit you were feeling a certain way and decided to shut that shit down is pretty brave. Just my .02.

(Edited for clarity.)

[This message edited by Chili at 9:03 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

MN, you were definitely not having an EA; you may have been on the cusp of one, but talked yourself out of it before it progressed to anything that could be in the A ballpark.

I think it shows great character that you didn't act on your emotional impulse and instead reasoned (and trusted your gut on) your way to the right answer. We are all emotional beings. The logic you wrote out is what separates emotionally healthy people from those who would follow through and attempt to begin an affair.

[This message edited by phmh at 8:59 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

MN, No. just. no.

MN, I'll just throw this into the mix as food for thought regarding FB.

I never posted any pics of me and Xhole, never mentioned his name, and didn't have my relationship status listed (still don't). Xhole wanted no part of any social media in any way, shape, or form. He still doesn't.

But we were (at the time) still very much married and did a lot of things together. His lack of presence on my FB meant absolutely zip.

In hindsight I'm glad he was against it. That meant no scrubbing of pics or posts for me after our split.

Walk away...

Thank you everyone for validating what I suspected was true.

But Thanksgiving, it is nowhere near an EA, and certainly not “fast becoming a PA.” She has no idea I would be interested and I’m not going to tell her. And there’s no evidence she would reciprocate if I did say something. The communication we have had in the past month was a text saying happy 50th. And before that, about two months, a few emails over the course of a couple weeks. And before that, probably nothing for four years. There was no boundary testing. Neither expressed any “let’s get coffee.” No secrets. I wouldn’t be uncomfortable at all if she mentioned to her husband that we talked. But I appreciate your passion for integrity and if I start to daydream about it, I’ll be sure to remember your admonishment. I’m not sure if I’m defending myself so that you’ll believe I’m not the monster you assumed, (who cares what a random anonymous internet person thinks about me?) or if it’s to assure you that it isn’t alwYs the worst case scenario and that even though we’ve been burned hard that sometimes it’s ok to start believing that people are ok. Probably the first. But I like to think it’s the second. I will assure you that I am not interested in being an AP. And I will keep it respectful and stay on my side of the fence.

Hey, that Chili is one astute cookie! I second what she said. Its like you sort of wrote out your "Pros and Cons" list here about what was really more of musings in your head about what might have been/might be. It's easy enough to do, especially given the time and aloneness most of us have lately. (I did a little of that viewing the life of a former schoolmate who FB friended me recently, but hey, I do know it's really nothing doing. Just filled a bit of time, then back to reality.)

Like Chili, I read and squirmed and then gave a sigh of relief that you wrote yourself out of that frame of mind and also give you kudos for it. You're on the right track now.

First, I have heard from someone else on SI that you and I are very very similar. You posted some personal information here that is shockingly similar to the crap that I have experienced, although I wouldn't get back with my first wife if you held a gun to my head.

Second, no... do not initiate contact with FW ever again. I would keep all future communication with her short, even if she initiates. You admit to wanting something more than friendship. Your intent with communicating with her (regardless of the initiator) is nefarious. She's married.

Stop, just stop. Stay. Away.

Hey, that Chili is one astute cookie!

I agree with this.

I never posted any pics of me and Xhole, never mentioned his name, and didn't have my relationship status listed (still don't).

Ditto. I am not a fan of "Relationship Status" on social media. My take is, 'if' you are really my 'friend', you know my relationship status. If not, it is none of you business.

The whole relationship status on social media feels so teenager'ish to me.

But back to you (lol - sorry). Your mind is making a lot of leaps based on your own guesses. But you followed your own chain of thought and worked it out (yeah).

Keep her in that friend's zone.

Good luck Minnesota!

Thanksgiving2016 - chill out. Seriously this was so off base:

I think it's sad how someone can go from BS to AP. You have obviously been having an EA which is fastly moving to a PA. Please cease contact, there is no reason for contact, as a parting gift get yourself and her a copy of "Not Just Friends" Does her BH know about you? Of course he may as my WH was "friends" with his AP's BS. His AP was a former Fiance. You know this is wrong yet you continue. Any person who is willing to stab the person they swore to love in the back is seriously fucked up. what if you were her husband? Have some damn empathy for god's sake.

My ex (never married but together for over 10 years) are still good friends and still own some property together. We still talk rather frequently (meaning every 2 months or so). My WH knew this when he met me - and my Ex has actually stay with me and my WH (before and after we married) and we have done big group trips with him and others. I say all this because for all I know my EX is pining away for me, keeping in contact with me just to see if someday I become single. I would be VERY surprised if that were the case, but again just like Minnesota's situation, I would never know even if he were so it's possible.

But I have no idea because he has never, not once, not for a mili-second, done or said anything that would ever be inappropriate, and neither have I. I mean not a single time, ever.

Infidelity jades you and in a way so does SI, for all it's good. Some people are perfectly capable of sticking to boundaries. This board is filled with stores about those who cannot...but in real life they do exist.

Minnesota - I think you know what you need to do...cast this one out to see as the "one that got away" - you know the old saying...if it returns, blah blah blah.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:58 AM, September 16th (Wednesday)]

Here's my .02:

I don't believe you had an EA.

I don't think it would be wise of you to contact your friend anymore (but you already know this).

I appreciate the fact that you are being honest with your feelings and hopes for the future, and that you chose to put yourself out there (well, to us) to help you see what you've known all along. Kudos to you for that!

Thanksgiving, I'm sorry you're still in so much pain that you saw an EA occurring. Infidelity screws with us in such a way that sometimes we see things that are not there because we were "blinded" by what was right in front of us. Hugs.

Good call on backing off. I don't believe you're in an EA, but I think you were laying the groundwork for one.

You acknowledge an interest in pursuing your ex, complete with "one that got away" fantasy scenarios.

You stalked social media and asked mutual friends in order to draw conclusions about the stability of her marriage. You avoided the topic of her husband in conversation, and she may have as well.

You tried to come up with a formula of how often you can reasonably check in to see if she's free to pursue a relationship with you.

As I think you've realized, this is (or at least can be) how an affair starts, with the blurring of boundaries and the reassurance that "I'm not doing anything that's clearly over the line." Each step doesn't seem like such a big deal because it's a small distance further into questionable territory. Many WS, including me, followed that path into a dark place.

She knows where you are if she's ever available and interested. Until then, a married woman you would like to date is a total no fly zone.

Hi, Minnesota. Great to "see" you.

In typing this, I think I've decided that since I have a brain twitch about it, the best thing to do is steer clear. I can watch from afar, but in connecting every now and then, I'm overstepping my bounds. Especially since my intent is, if I'm being honest, to keep me in her mind, even if it is only once a year.

I think your gut reaction in steering clear is correct. I don't think you were engaging in an emotional affair, but I do think you are acting like a "nice guy". You have a friend or acquaintance of the opposite sex, but you don't just think of her as a friend; she's a friend-but-I'd-like-it-to-be-more. Keeping in touch on this basis isn't fair to her or to you. It's unfair to her because you aren't being honest with her about why you are continuing the relationship. It's unfair to you because you won't be as open to other romantic possibilities if you are maintaining an unrequited love for this woman (I'm exaggerating, but the more space she takes up in your head and heart, the less room there is for others). Maybe she loves her husband dearly and he just didn't come up in your conversation. Maybe she is waiting until the kids all launch before launching herself. It's not your business (obviously) and you should leave her alone unless you can honestly say that you have no romantic interest in her.

I hope that's helpful and not just critical.

Exactly what Chili said. No EA here, as far as I'm concerned. It seems all of the squirmworthy things were happening inside your head, not in your communication with FW. And you have thought things through, and kept them there. Well done! Let's not forget, we are human. We can fantasize about murdering someone, for example, but without an overt act toward completion of the murder, it's not even considered an attempt. Thoughts, not acted upon, are ok. Just don't spend too much time there, as you know. You have a beautiful life to live...in reality!

Thanksgiving's post appears to be from a place of pain. We have all been there. Jeez, 5 years later, I still have my moments. Your response was insightful and gentle. You're good people, MN.

And so I stalked her FB page. And he's not anywhere in there. I asked around and she IS still married. But I don't think they do anything together. And now go back to that statement about doing whatever it took to not losing time with her kids.

And that’s why now my FB page contains lots of happy pics of us as a couple.

Before my WH’s affair you would have looked at my WH’s profile and found one profile picture of our dd and a sea picture as a cover photo. (Profile did state he was married to me).

Then you would have looked at mine and you would have found pics of the kids from our holidays and places we went to, no pics of us together or apart. Not many pics of me, if any, or him. He wasn’t tagged in my checkin statuses if I checked myself in somewhere. The reason? He didn’t use FB and I considered that we don’t need to show the world we are happy as long as we knew it, kids swimming, splashing, amazing views were what my page was about.

I can totally assume OW stalked his page and mine and came to the conclusion, just like you, that we must live separate lives and our separation is imminent.

Put that together with the fact that my WH admitted that I never came up in their conversations as if I never existed (except for the 2-3 times he actually had to find something to justify he’s a jerk so he bitched about me) and it’s entirely clear we are on the brink of divorce.

Reality? My WH spent every spare time outside of work with me. The only times we would take our separate ways was the weekly food shop and one of my dd’s music lessons (but even that one, although early on a Saturday, he would insist he loves spending time with me and he’s rather come along and wait in the waiting room with me, yes, even during the affair ). He didn’t take time from us to meet his AP (although he could have invented a work football event which actually did exist once a week, I would have totally bought it. He said he didn’t want to, she was work, we were spare time, he didn’t feel the need to be with her outside of work).

The month before dday we were actively discussing buying a property abroad. He was buying me a new fancy car 3 weeks before dday.

But in his story with his ow (what did you do at the weekend?) he admitted he never mentioned me. For example if we went to a theme park he would say “I took the kids to a theme park”. If we went swimming he’d say “I took dd swimming” etc.

So yeah... please don’t jump to conclusions, social media is not a reflection of the reality.

For me damn if you do, damn if you don’t, once I started posting REAL pictures of us being happy (That doesn’t mean we don’t have tough times but honestly, I can’t see how people would expect pics of me crying and WH apologising ) I started being told how it’s fakebook and everyone pretends to be happy.

Minnesota what were the reasons you divorced XW?

MN, I'm not sure what to call it, but "inappropriate" seems right. I would not be comfortable with my wife (not remarried yet) communicating with someone who is hoping our M ends. And I don't think you would either. The fact that she doesn't mention her H to you AT ALL is strange. If their M is on the rocks, stay away until it falls apart. I would expect that you want to act honorably and not wonder if you contributed to the collapse in some way.

There’s a reason she’s an X.

MN - You are a very good man, and I think you had your answers prior to finishing your first post on this thread.

You are good good man, and I would think that if you wanted to find a lady they would flock to you, given your sense of humor, and commitment to your child, and your strong sense of being kind and good to others is a huge turn on for most women.

You probably find FW attractive because you know her well, and would be easy to fall back into a relationship without feeling out things, and knowing what you are getting. But you also need to remember why things didn't work the first time were and that even though both have grown and matured RomCom's rarely happen in reality.