SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was going to post this in the thread made by Micky500 but I don't think it belongs there and I didn't want to muddy the responses. So I decided to do it here.

What do I miss?

I thought deeply about this question. I spent 6 years lying to my wife, driving us into a hole we were barely able to escape. And another 3 or 4 months having an affair.

I honestly don't miss anything that I've "lost". The good memories that we had, they still exist. The look of trust in her eyes? I was never worthy of it back then anyway. The trust itself? it will build back - and though it'll never be implicit, I don't mind because it means I can always strive to be a little bit better. And if things don't work out? I know she's strong. I know I'm strong. And I know life goes on.

What I am is grateful. Every day. For her grace and her love. For every step I take with myself and with her. For making sure that the price we paid for my decisions is not wasted idly. And for a hundred million little things every day that exist.

Says a lot that you just nonchalantly say she'll get through losing her marriage with just 'she's strong'. Easy for you to say. You won't lose your marriage after do your very best and being faithful AND being forgiving.

Secondly you're a man so you can just start over whenever. You don't understand that you've taken her 'best years' or maybe you do but don't care. No, they didn't still happen. They are void. You were lying anyway so they weren't authentic. What are her dating options now if you divorced? As a mother later on in life. Barely any ecent prospects, AND less options because women don't have it as easy. Does that sound fun to you. Meanwhile you'll pursue women 10-20-30 if you can, girls younger than you. Because you have that option. It's okay for you.

But for your betrayed wife with significantly less confidence and a life lost. Yes it is lost. You wouldn't know because it didn't happen to you. But she'll just get over it right. Sorry devoted wife, too bad. See ya!

says a lot that you also know you'll be fine if it 'doesn't work out'. You mean if you deliberately fail to make amends to your deserving wife. That doesn't just happen, you chose that. Like you chose ruin your wife's life and end your marriage. But good way to avoid responsibility.

'Life goes on'. Yeah, for you. The lack of empathy is astounding. Who are you to assume it will be so easy for her. You don't even understand what you did to this woman's life. Life doesn't go on. You actually ruined that.

The sooner waywards will accept this the better. Get over your temporary guilt which isn't the same as remorse since you're already deciding your betrayed spouse will magically be fine even though you haven't the slighest CLUE about what they're going through. You assume but you do NOT know, get over all that and understand

That you ruined someone's life.

We can say marriages are dead but we can't admit that happens with betrayed's lives? Oh please. A wayward is not going to tell me it's easy to get something they have no clue of. Neither is a betrayed. I don't care.

It ruins lives. People need to accept that. If they took this more seriously maybe these waywards wouldn't happily and ruin their spouses' lives then say, 'life goes on'.

Yeah miserably. Not for you though so it's fine. Cause you did the work. Brave you. What about THEIR work. More difficult than just stop lying and cheating. But it's so very manageable isn't it? According to the person who dished out the necesity to do said work but hasn't had to do it. Evidently betrayeds are expected to find happiness after trauma and depression but which waywards couldn't even in happy marriages. But they're here to tell betrayeds to just be happy after involuntary losing everything. And they did lose everything. Waywards get to say it so guess what so do betrayeds. They lose everything then get told they should be fine. Very remorseful.

Not

Onebiglie nailed it.

It's truly wonderful that you see the outcome of your affair,in such a positive light! Maybe your wife can have an affair of her own, and find the same peace and happiness!

**fingers crossed **

Onebiglie nailed it.

But you have a few things wrong.

The good memories still exist for you - but for her they are a horror story. She's struggling to wrap her mind about the fact that if they were so damn good - this wouldn't have happened to her. At BEST they are forever tainted. She now views them with a cloudy gray film over them. They still occurred but are now shadowed with what you've done.

Building trust back - you will never get it back to the level you think you will. At BEST she may reach a form of "trust ... but verify" and even that isn't likely for a very long time.

Just keep in mind, while you are grateful for her and the little things - she is experiencing death by a thousand paper cuts. Every one of those little things you are grateful for is a huge trigger to her. Because face it - if they were really that great she wouldn't be a BS now would she?

I bet you wouldn't say those things if the shoe was on the other foot. I bet you wouldn't even think them. And you'd probably be either a level of angry even the Hulk hadn't seen yet or a blubbering pile of goo if you were reading this perspective from the other side.

This is the wayward forum. Please remember to post respectfully. Not doing so can result in removal from this forum.

FD,

I'm in the same camp as you are, and so many other waywards who had to overcome a number of personal demons (whether it is depression or substance abuse, etc) as part of recovery from our affairs - and we are thankful.

I don't miss the self centred taker that I was just before and during my affair. Or the guy who wouldn't/couldn't communicate a feeling or want. Or the guy who struggled to just get up in the morning to face another day.

Yes we have developed empathy. We are here trying to improve and grow. And we have amazing partners who have taken the harder path with us which we are thankful for.

Does your wife agree with you? My H and I don’t miss the people we were before, either. We are grateful for the opportunities to grow and learn, become stronger and more authentic. We each know we would be ok (with a ton of pain) if we stopped choosing each other but we don’t. We keep choosing.

Does my H think these things? Yes. I ask him quite often. We were very hurt people and behaved hurtfully. We both projected our own ideal partner at each other so strongly that the pedestals couldn’t get any higher- or more fragile. Our MC told us that pedestals were fine, as long as we remembered that we each put them there. We think about that a lot.

We were very dysfunctional and full of broken pieces. Now we are cleaning up. Do I wish we could have spared the other pain? I think we both do but we didn’t. And with our respective histories, it makes sense why we didn’t. I don’t think every story is the same narrative and marriage seems to be a pretty diverse life experience. So, I’m sure this is a lot of YMMV.

@onebiglie

I don't say things nonchalantly. I think I can read a lot of pain in your words. Are you really talking to me here or someone else?

Regarding "I'm a man, etc". I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. My wife is smart, funny, sexy, amazing and crazy in all the right ways. I don't think her best years are gone, I think every year is her best year. And I definitely don't think she has less options; although if you really want a discussion regarding men vs. women - I think there's one [hilariously] raging over in the general forums.

I know it's hard to see. But infidelity isn't the end of the world. There are far worse things than being betrayed by your partner. Not many worse things mind you but all mountains - except death - are surmountable.

As I said before on a different thread. There's ALOT of telling people how they feel on this site. Or telling them how their partners feel. Let me ask you this; who's spent the last 20 years with my wife, who's spent the last 8 years with my wife, who's spent yesterday with my wife.. me, or you?

@hellfire

Did I say I view the outcome of the affair in a positive light? lol

The outcome of my affair was a lot of pain and nearly a divorce. The outcome of my wife and I deciding to stay together (note, it has to be from both partners) is building towards something that can be positive (and indeed, is) <-- we could've done this without the pain I guess but then again, maybe we couldn't, given that we didn't..?

@chaos

I don't know why you think I've quantified my statement. Trust that is broken can be rebuilt - do you disagree? To what level, I don't know. As I said, I doubt it would ever be implicit trust. In fact, I don't want implicit trust any more (not because I think I'd abuse it but because I think it's unhealthy). I'm grateful for every step we make together, small and large.

I don't know what would've happened if she had an affair and frankly neither do you. I've given it a lot of thought though. I'm pretty sure I'd want to try and stay together and work through it. But, as it happened, she's not the one to have had the affair. As far as tainted.. she knew about the other woman for the few months that it lasted - not that it was any less hurtful, probably even more so.

if they were really that great she wouldn't be a BS now would she?

I wanted to point something out here. Yes. She still would be. My lying to her. My affair. Those things had nothing do with who she is or was or the every day things which are awesome in world and in our relationship. Otherwise there'd be no point in going to IC and working on myself - I would just change my circumstances in order to heal.

In the end. I don't speak for my wife. I'm writing out life from my point of view. I don't know the depth of pain that she's feeling; I do see it however. Something no one here can say.

Missing all of those cliches, "her looking at me", "sleeping comfortably", etc. To me, it comes from an egotistical place. I don't miss those things. I don't miss the good times we had because we already had them. And the bad times as well. It's far better to concetrate on now, building where we can.

@cleanslate

I know we don't always agree on things here (I think JBWD as well) but this time. Yea, I get you.

@pretty-much-everyone

I don't write to be glib. I write to express and better understand. And share some of my inner world. I am sorry if I've offended or triggered pain. I don't put a stop sign on any of my posts because I value feedback - whether it be arrows or pillows (I dunno, something soft).

Does your wife agree with you?

Yes. We talk about our life together alot.

And pretty much everything you wrote leavingorbit is exactly what I meant to say as well.

Thank you.

I think this was a good counter to the kind of nostalgia that can be counterproductive if we let it crowd out the fact of where we ARE.

Serenity to accept the things I cannot change (past)

Courage to change the things I can (future)

Wisdom to know the difference (present)

Well said JBWD. Misery loves company and the other thread was just too much for me.

With that said, I don't see a place for "us" VS "them" (not to read too deep into any of the 2 different threads). My guess is that everyone hates that they feel compelled to be here no matter the exact reason. Quite frankly I see this as the marriage version of a dentist office....who goes there for good news or because they feel wonderful? And yet, a visit can bring much relief in one way or another.

Agreed.

When I read folks expressing the pain of accepting a new normal, I generally assume it’s the same way I’m accepting it- Interspersed between lots of anxiety, pain, and horrible (but constructive) awareness. I don’t think they’d be posting here were it easy for them.

Firstly, I did post respectfully, I can't help it if there's no BW forum where WH actually care to hear the truth and not the sugar-coated version of R that makes them feel better. So wayward forum, and there is a wayward attitude here indeed, it is.

There's ALOT of telling people how they feel on this site. Or telling them how their partners feel. Let me ask you this; who's spent the last 20 years with my wife, who's spent the last 8 years with my wife, who's spent yesterday with my wife.. me, or you?

@hellfire

Did I say I view the outcome of the affair in a positive light? lol

This is actually a flippant way to talk about the trauma you've deliberately given your loving wife.

Can I just say, it's truly fascinating that on a site where people have learned they've been betrayed after decades and decades of marriage,and you, being a person who successfully deceived his trusting wife,

Would have the arrogance to assume that spending the last 20 years with her, which you've tarnished and wasted but don't seem to want to understand that fact, means that you know her.

I didn't claim to know her or how she was yesterday. I'm telling you how it feels because I know you DON'T. So let me ask YOU this, why do you assume you know how she's feeling more than I do. You don't. Know how I know? Because if you understood the damage you did to this woman, you wouldn't be talking this way.

You just wouldn't. Sorry you don't likw the fact that people understand things you don't and won't allow you to speak for your wife. So what if you spent 2 decades with her? She spent them with you and I bet she never expected you to risk her sexual health. She's the mother of your children, I bet ahe didn't see that coming. But according to you, having a long marriages means you know the person even when they're experiencing something you know less than nothing about

And don't tell people what they can overcome in life. That's incredibly arrogant. What about rape victims? Can they overcome that 'mountain' and who are you to tell them they can. At least I leave it to them to speak.

Very hypocrital from the wayward husband who claims that people tell others how they feel. Yet here you are telling others what they can overcome.

And please, imagine all you want, but you were not cheated not. You don't get to assume you'd be aa forgiving as her. You don't get to use that as a reason to assume that she's fine and will be fine.

And yes she does has less options, your little joke about men vs women isn't funny. I'm telling the truth in saying divorced mothers with children have less dating options and we all know it. You know it, that's probably part of why so many men cheat. But of honesty would be nice in this forum.

Of course they think, she'll never leave me. She's getting on now. She won't want to find another husband. That's how the abusive thinking starts, and then it encourages the cheating aka abuse. And before you know it, the BW is getting tested for STDs and her WH is here saying, she'll be fine, nothing is insurmountable.

Since your wife isn't here, all I can do is tell you how she might feel, same as everyone else. We're all giving our thoughts based on what we've been told. You do it too but Im sure it's fine when you do it.

At least when I speak it's with an understanding you don't and will never have. Whether she cheats on you or not. And she probably wont. I wont say for sure cause then youll tell me again how you, who she never expected to betray her, are the only one who knows her.

Funny thing is that you used that knowledge of her to deceive her. To manipulate her and lie the best you could. And now you're assuming you know she's fine. Please

And you so would be a bulbebring mess or angrier than you thought possible, but you'll never know. Lucky you. At least spare us the arrogance of suggesting you can imagine sufficiently to ignore what me and other BWs have agreed on,

Which is that you don't sound remorseful and your wife is NOT FINE. And she won't just be fine, and if that's not for me to say as someone who understands,

Then it's not for you to say either.

You don't know. So stop saying she'll be fine

You're the lucky one here, don't tell the unlucky ones they'll be fine just because you think they should be.

Incredibly insensitive to say 'misery loves company' about a thread where betrayeds are pouring their hearts out but I guess that's to be expected when waywards are allowed to say whatever they want and the rest of us have to coddle them as they detail how nonchalant they are about giving their spouse deep, lifelong pain.

Secondly, it's fascinating that whs who have been divorced have so much perspective but like whs in r, they don't get that they're the lucky ones who get to say profound things about being happy and whatnot. They probably have already started dating, their BW are somewhere taking 5 minutes from looking after the children to cry in their bedroom and feeling like utter shit. Ugly, worthless and robbed.

Because that's how they were treated. But let's all celebrate how lovely it is to have a second start in life. Especially as a man, who can actually start over with a 20 year old and noone bats an eyelid. The BWs who have been abused and abandoned are stuck in society's lowest rank.

OBL, I am a BH and am dealing with a lot of pain right here and now in my life. I'm processing 2 decades of trauma.

I was tempted to post in the original thread but I felt exactly as I said here: misery loves company...and I've been miserable for a long time. This isn't flippant. It's that for me, right now, I don't feel I am helping myself by getting into that topic. It's no different than in real life in that there are times we do better to not get into depressive conversations with someone who, while we both may be right, will only cause us more pain amd nothing will be built up.

There were bits of the OP's copy that rubbed me wrong. Namely, the presumption that trust can be earned back. But it also doesn't do good to rip apart every single word of what someone shares heres....read enough of what I say and I am sure I will be wrong from time to time too.

OBL, one more thing. I am sorry you're having to deal with your situation. All of it. It's not fair to you and I hate that it's your reality. But please understand that some of us BH's are eating shit sandwhiches daily as well. My version may have fewer or it may have more crunchy peanut bits in it than yours but it's still horrible tasting all the same.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 7:35 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

The good memories are tainted for her, and overshadowed by the betrayal. They just are. I don’t see when that changes. My husband tries to remind me of good memories. Played our wedding music this morning, for example. But 3.5 years later — the happy memories are never top of mind. The Thousands of lies and betrayal, unfortunately, are at the surface. This post. is so blithely written it was upsetting. You damaged your wife. Badly. Full stop. You damaged your relationship. Badly. And no, I truly don’t believe there can ever be trust like you had before. Not ever. Having spoken ceaselessly with a community of other betrayed spouses for years — I can assure you, you will never fully have her full trust again. Trust but verify, maybe. If you’re lucky. This post just strikes me as rather oblivious as the true ramifications of your actions.

The good memories still exist for you - but for her they are a horror story. She's struggling to wrap her mind about the fact that if they were so damn good - this wouldn't have happened to her. At BEST they are forever tainted.

I'm curious about this from the perspective of FD's BW. This is a topic my WH and I have been through a ton of times. Bottom line is that I recognize that HE gets to keep his "good memories" (and good for him - I'm hella jealous of that). The problem is that he cannot seem to recognize that I do NOT. And I say this recognizing that it's not the same for everyone, and that being lied to for the entirety of a M is different than "most" cheaters.

TBH, I believe FD's OP reeks of a perspective that does not strike me as very humble (tho I really do see the gratitude as a healthy observation/perspective). That's ok. It's his life and his M and I'm just some stranger BW on an Internet forum.

However, bc of the perspective (which I read as "I cheated but all is rosy with me and my BW, who would be fine despite all the devastation of my A AND getting a D" ), what really causes concern is the other WS may read things into this that are likely not going to be the case in their particular sitch (and IIRC, didn't FD's A occur while he and his BW were S?)

what really causes concern is the other WS may read things into this that are likely not going to be the case in their particular sitch

Maybe slight t/j but

I dunno, gmc. It seems to me that people looking for blameshifting fodder are going to find it. And that’s all it would be - dressing themselves up in more of those tired clothes while avoiding their own wardrobe. And while that’s hard, if my H or I decided we wanted to throw away everything we had worked for to hide again, we’d have a different answer for each other.

I don’t think all stories are going to look the same. I think it’s up to each individual to “take what they want and leave the rest.” Maybe I’m misreading this post from you, entirely possible. Worrying about what a theoretical WS may take from my story seems codependent to me. I don’t read forgettableDad as flippant but then, my H and I identify with elements of his story.