SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone.

I am glad I found this site. It’s been a great helping tool to understand and react to my wife’s infidelity.

Now, I think it is a time for an advice regards to confronting A to my WS

After 12 years of marriage, my wife and I had ups and downs. But since this year, my wife was acting like she had midlife crisis. She had money spending issues where she couldn’t control her self in shopping and eagerly wanted to find her true self. In June, while we were on vacation, we had fight. My wife wanted a divorce but I told her to try the marriage counselling before she makes the decision. We had great relationships after few counselling sessions. However, in September we had another fight which I thought it wasn’t a major problem and suddenly, two weeks later in October she asked for divorce again. Since I didn’t knew about her affair, I begged her to stay and did the ‘pick me’ action.

Although she wanted a divorce, she is still sleeping beside me, taking care of kids together, eating together and uses my finances since she has no job but nothing more than that. And she is telling her close friends, divorce is happening which "of course" blaming me.

On early November, I had senses something was wrong by her behaviours. Suddenly, some lady approached me by instagram and sent me dating pics of WS and AP to gain revenge or some sort. The lady was a previous partner which current AP used to date (They were in A relationship at that time too).

This AP is married (know the contacts of the wife) and he only cheats on a married women. The AP is in the same pilates class with my wife and they were texting each other casually since summer. Suddenly my wife fell deeply in love with him after our fight in September when she believed our marriage was hopeless. I found out she was sleeping with him, and dating with him by telling lies to me and our kids.

After the discovery, I stayed calm and acted normal to gather evidence of A and talked to my attorney to have necessary action plan to minimize the loss on my finances and the kids during separation or divorce. Right now, our relationship at home does not look like a real separation according to the lawyer.

Now, all the paperwork is complete, I am planning to talk to her after we celebrate the Christmas with our kids together.

I had counselling sessions from two different infidelity counsellors and both of them had similar but different strategies.

They both agreed to set up a date and ask if she really wants divorce and if the answer is YES, inform her the real separation is going to happen and show what a real D looks like since she has so much to lose since she has no money at all (Never worked before nor tried).

BUT, one counsellor told me to confront about A at the same date of separation notice. The other counsellor told me to wait few months after WS experience financial hardship which will make her comeback and confront A to restore the relationship.

What approach should I take to confront her A? Does anyone have similar experiences?

At this moment I am not too sure if I want D or R.
I am planning to do hard 180 after I speak with her after Christmas.

Just my opinion but you have the most leverage to D why she is still with AP.

Your comment about D or R is ill thought because R after something like this requires a lot from the WS and you have zero idea if she would make a good candidate for R.

Your best move is to move immediately for D. If down the line you both decide to R you create a new marriage.

So sorry you are here. this site was a life saver for me years ago. You have done a tremendous job in getting ready, gathering your information and being prepared. It is interesting advise to hear from the counselors. I will ask you, before you decide, do you want to stay in the relationship? It is obvious she is cheating, she has asked for a D several times and is spreading lies. Do you think that will really change if you give her 'time' to think? I will tell you personally, it is very hard to trust a wayward spouse in the early disclosure time and time they show regret and maybe one day remorse.

Personally, I would recommend the confrontation and separation. IF you still want to try to make things work, you have essentially put her on notice that you will not play the pick me. IF she wants to try to repair the marriage she can immediately start the work, but she knows you are serious. Maybe she will decide to dedicate to the marriage, maybe not, but you will be caring for you and your children.

It is really hard at the holidays to try to pretend everything is normal. I told my fWH I wanted a D before Christmas. We did decide to keep Christmas together one more time, since my Mom had just died and things were already crazy. I regretted that as he felt comfortable eventually, and broke NC. We have since R but is was a very long road.

I’m very sorry this has happened to you. It’s excruciatingly painful and completely unfair.

Perhaps the counselor who said to wait and let her experience financial hardship is right—maybe it would make her more likely to stay.

But in the end, do you want a spouse who stays with you because of money, and not because they actually want the marriage?

If you are planning to confront anyway, lay your cards on the table. I recommend that you don't reveal the specifics of what you know or the source you got them from but that you do reveal that you know she's been cheating and you expect her to come clean about the details. You might imply that you know a LOT and have proof but that she needs to tell the truth to try to restore any hope of R.

Why? Because if she provides few/no details or just denies, then you know she's not done lying and isn't R material anyway.

Also because, if you move toward a real separation and give her a taste of D and then she comes crawling back for financial reasons, 1) you then awkwardly start the "I know you had an affair conversation"??? and also 2) why want someone who mainly wants you for your financial benefits???

If she (and the 2 of you) have any real hope of R, she needs to be remorseful and all in.

Also adding:
I would also go public with friends/family about her R...whether she wants to R or still move to D. She's been controlling the narrative long enough.

Also expose the A to the other man's wife.

Do all exposure without flagging it to her first (yet after confronteling her).

Shock and awe will often douse the fun of the A--which is a bonus whether the outcome of your marriage is R or D.

If she's upset that you didn't tell her in advance about the exposures? She didn't get your permission to indulge in the A. Also, it's not your baggage to carry to keep her secret and you need the support from others.

Hi OP, sorry you're here.

She's been talking divorce for a while now, and now she's cheating.

My advice is give her divorce papers. Tell her the other man, the MARRIED man, can have her. Then, tell the other man's wife. Let your wife try to work some homewrecker magic to win this jerk. Chances are she'll fail because he'll run back to his wife.

When single-parent no job reality hits her, she might make a play for your marriage again. Her Plan B. You need to carefully think thru if you want her back. Many husbands with kids with stories like yours do try to reconcile, some successfully.

Sounds like she's half out the door now. I'd give her divorce papers and make this real for her: it's single-parent time. She'll know you're prepared to end it, you'll carry on without her. If she asks you to reconcile if you're ready to divorce I think you'll have a chance at success.

Your challenge if it comes to reconciliation is can you live with a lying, cheating wife? There's a significant chance she'd cheat on you again - there's no chance she'll cheat on you again if you divorce her.

Strength to you OP, you have some important decisions to make for you and your kids.

A lot of good advice above. She has been asking for D (divorce to be clear) ...so give it to her.

As has been mentioned, would you even want her back if it is financially motivated? Not a good foundation for a real and rewarding marriage.

There are two schools of thoughts here. Other posters have brought up the idea that you may not want to remain married to someone who views you/the marriage as a plan B.

However it may be your wife is living in fantasy land. She believes the OM is something he isn’t - you know the rose colored glasses theory.

If you shock her with D papers, it may snap her back to reality. Especially after the OM drops her b/c he’s not interested in her anymore. She may "see the reality" and realize she’s made many poor choices.

However you may decide you do want to proceed with a D. That’s the risk your cheating wife is taking.

For me, cut off finances, separate and serve her D papers at the same time. Hard 180 grey rock afterwards. There is no need to drag the process out.
Shock and awe.
One day at a time.

I think your best bet is to simply sit her down and tell her that you know she's cheating and that you're not willing to share your wife. You don't have to reveal your sources and you don't have to get into any kind of protracted, emotional scene with her, but since you don't know whether or not you're open to R, a calm, rational approach might leave you more options. I think some other posters here have made a good point in that you're unlikely to be happy going forward with someone who chose you for security concerns. In order to get real and lasting change from a WS, she would need to to WANT to accomplish it. Saving her home dynamic because she's got nowhere else to go might keep her in the marriage, but at what cost to you?

If it was me, I'd tell her sooner rather than later and allow that separation date to sit in the back of her mind while I stepped back and did a soft 180. That's what worked for me. On dday, I told my fWH that I was done and wanted a divorce. He gave me a hangdog look and agreed it was for the best, then bolted for the guest room in order to text his latest OW. I basically just stepped back and did a soft 180 before I even knew what it was. Within a week, it was him asking ME for thirty more days to prove himself. He messed that up initially by trying some kind of "let her down gently" maneuver, but basically, I had simplified his choices. It was "all in" or "all out" and no in between. No games. Very simple. I was NOT going to put up with a husband who had a girlfriend. I was not going to compete. I was not going to chase. I wasn't even going to make it hard for him to go. Hell, if he couldn't do better by me, I wanted him to go. He would have found out quickly enough that that last OW had her own agenda and it mostly had to do with his wallet.

I think it's okay to give a WS "the roadmap home" if you have one. You're basically just outlining your boundaries at that point. But if she's not willing to jump right in, there's no reason to be cagey about naming a separation date. In fact, it would give her time for Reality to seep in while she's still observing you in close quarters. Let her miss you a little while you're just out of emotional reach. Let her see what a great guy she's losing. That's NOT a "pick me" dance. You're capitulating nothing. All you're doing is stepping back and rising above the drama.

Sorry you are here brother.

Move toward separation/D and confront the A at the same time imo. And inform the wife of the posom at the same time too, but dont tell your wife you are going to do that. These 3 things will give you leverage and take back the initiative. Then you can see how she responds and that may help you decide to move forward with D or attempt R.

It is certainly possible she really wants D but it is also very possible she is deep in her A fantasy and when it comes crashing down by doing the three things above she will realize the idiot she has been. Either way, she is in a dopamine fueled fantasy right now, not reality.

The other thing you shoild consider doing is telling her family or key friends. Exposing the affair usually kills it. But if you think you want D and not R then you can wait for that.

They both agreed to set up a date and ask if she really wants divorce and if the answer is YES, inform her the real separation is going to happen and show what a real D looks like since she has so much to lose since she has no money at all (Never worked before nor tried).

Do not take legal advice from therapists. I’m not sure what your lawyer has promised or advised you (or if you have one), but legally, you cannot leave a spouse destitute. In most states, adultery has no impact on the division of assets/alimony, and the ones that do require irrefutable evidence of a physical affair (PI photos/video, text messages, email, etc).

If she hasn’t worked a day in her life and was the primary caregiver of your children, she will likely be entitled to alimony plus half of all your money and shared assets (including your 401K and pension). Your wife might actually end up with a much more favorable settlement than a woman who has her own career and income potential.

For this reason, I definitely wouldn’t bring up "all she has to lose"— financially speaking— as part of the confrontation. She could easily turn hostile, get a shark lawyer, force you to hemorrhage money during the process of an acrimonious divorce, and fleece you for every cent she can get.

In fact, your best bet— if you want to minimize your losses— is to be as even-tempered and outwardly magnanimous as possible. If she’s in the lalaland of infatuation with her AP, she might be willing to settle for much less than what she is legally entitled if she’s feeling guilty and/or thinks it will make the path toward Happily Ever After with her paramour as smooth and as short as possible.

Therefore, I think you should calmly tell her that you know she’s in love with someone else (don’t mention any evidence or tell her how you know) and you’ve taken her desire for a divorce to heart. Tell her that because you love her so much, you can’t share her with another man or force her to remain married to someone she doesn’t love. Then you present her with the divorce papers.

If she argues with you and tries to deny the affair, don’t engage. Simply say there is no point in lying because you know both know the truth.

As other commentators have said, getting served with papers might jolt her out of her infatuation haze and into reality. Another possibility is that she gleefully shares the news with womanizing Pilates guy, he rejects her, and then she comes crawling back begging for another chance. In either of those scenarios, you will then have to decide if you want to R and be in a good position mandate the conditions for it… the most important of which should be a rock-solid postnuptial agreement.

But if she decides to follow through on the divorce, then you need to limit your discussions and interactions to the bare minimum and communicate all divorce logistics through lawyers. There is no point in arguing or rehashing things because the relationship is over. Let her experience on an emotional level what life without you as her husband will be like. Keep your composure and don’t allow her to bait you into confrontations that will jeopardize the final outcome of your divorce.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:52 PM, Saturday, December 24th]

Thank you everyone for the advice.

FYI, I have talked to the best divorce lawyer in town. True, I will lose some money and need to have spousal support and child custody support if she fights to take the children.

However, my damage is very minimal, since all the assets and properties are under my parents name due to the risk like this (Thank you to the wise parents). Therefore, she would not getting any lumpsump money and will only be getting $2500-$3500 per month from me with three kids with her.

So reality is, I have nothing to lose except this marriage and my kids in worst case scenarios. I will be happy to be in a legal battle if she decides not to negotiate which will drain her financial even more.

Therefore, I have good advantage at this moment.

So for me at this moment, according to the advice, I am leaning more to serving divorce paper and confronting the A and show what a real D is like.

Again, you need to be careful and don’t make any threats. You can’t cut her off financially and it would actually look worse for you in the eyes of family court.

Let her come to the conclusion of how much she will struggle from a divorce on her own, ideally after consulting her own attorney.

Follow your hot shot attorney’s advice but don’t get lulled into overinflated expectations. Unemployed spouses win— and win big!— all the time… and a judge finds her sympathetic might force you to pay all her legal fees.

I agree with everything Breakingbad detailed.

I don’t see the "let her see what divorce looks like so she can come back to work on R". This may or may be accurate but I feel it’s a weak approach.

I’d confront her, tell her you know about the A, that you have consulted an attorney and you know what this is going to look like. I’d inform the OM wife (don’t tell your WW this), blow up his world, and proceed with D.

Observe her actions after taking these steps. She may waffle on D, or push for it harder, but at least it will be all in the open.

I agree with others, tell her you know about her A.

Reconciliation? Can you live with a cheater and liar? She has tried to get out of the marriage twice, sounds like she isn’t really all in. She may have cheated before, the first time she asked out. It is your decision whether to offer reconciliation. If you think you might, get "How to Help your Spouse Heal From Your Affair". That is what she needs to commit to. Reconciliation is very hard.

Sorry you are here period. Its always a shit sandwich to find out our spouses are cheating. Regardless of D or R, I would suggest that you have the divorce/seperation papers drafted. Then sit her down at the table, possibly get a baby sitter, then lay a folder containing the paper work on the table and lay your wedding ring on the folder. Have her read whats in the folder and showing no emotions, sit and wait for her response. If she starts to beg, cry and rationalize it all, then tell her the fact that you know about her affair, who it is, his wifes name and contact info. That she has one chance and one chance only to come completely clean. That if you even suspect she is lying or minimizing anything, you will continue divorce as stated by the paperwork. Only one chance to be brutally honest, no matter how it may hurt, to tell you the truth. Make no promises of D or R. Then you must take it from there..again so sorry all this happening.

[This message edited by Dagrump at 1:05 PM, Sunday, December 25th]

A couple of comments:

1) Informing OBS may blow up his world, but that's not the purpose of informing him. The reason is that he needs the information about the A so he can take it into account in living his life. That's so even if anger is part of your reason for sharing the info. That's so even if revenge is part of your motivation.

2) My reco is not to make any threat you're not willing to carry out. In particular, you can get a lot of information from one truth-telling session, but you can't get everything. You'll need to take in what you get, and that will generate questions. Your WS will not be able to anticipate and answer all questions. Believe me, some of my questions were/are off the wall. Yes, I'm now 12 years+ out (by 2 days), and I just asked a question I never asked before (after months, maybe a year or more) without questions.

What you need from your WS is a commitment to truth, no more lies, no more TT (trickle-truth), a commitment to answer any question any time you want to ask,. That's not all you need, but it's better than setting a one-time, all-answer session, because that's recipe for D.

I know laying down an ultimatum is attractive. It just won't work well, especially now, because you don't yet know what you want to do.

^^^^^ Sisoon makes some good points.

If you can, when you confront, be as emotionless, stoic, and businesslike as possible. Act as though you have made up your mind and you are conducting a business negotiation. Remember that the person that acts like they care the least about the relationship holds the most power. The person who is willing to walk away from negotiations is the most powerful.

I showed my son this when he made his first car purchase and he wanted me along to give him confidence. After he haggled and the dealer said that was the best he could do, I told my son, "Let's go. We can do better elsewhere". We began walking out the door and things changed in a hurry. Somewhere, somehow, the dealer found another $1,700 to knock off the price and throw in A/C for free. This was 35 years ago. Might not mean much now, but that was a lot of money back then.

I realize that you are not in a business negotiation and that this is your life. However, what I am trying to say is that you need to act from a position of strength, not weakness, when you confront.

Do not make any threats. Don't threaten her with being destitute, especially as she will be the caregiver to your children.

Only say that you know she is cheating. Do not give up your sources of information.

If you want to live the rest of your life with this woman, then you had darn well better make sure that she wants to live the rest of her life with you. Otherwise, you will be living your life with a woman who is pining for someone else. I wouldn't want that and I don't think you do either.

Since she is cheating and loves another man, ask her if she wants to be with him. If so, then she can be with him all she wants. Only Not as Your Wife. If she wants a divorce, as she has been telling her friends, then you will oblige her and file the necessary paperwork.

All this other stuff the therapists told you about waiting, imposing financial hardship etc. does no good, IMO. It won't make her want you more... just make her more bitter.

As I said, make sure that it is you that she wants to spend her life with... not someone else.

Good luck.