SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’ve been reading a lot lately and was curious if one is more "worse" than the other … being a betrayed husband or a betrayed wife? I know it’s a shit stick either way. In what ways, either from a personal perspective or statistically speaking … what makes betrayed spouses similar and different when it comes to "accepting/healing/forgiving" infidelity (or not)?

My WH says if the shoe was on the other foot, he would have an extremely difficult time with the physical aspect and that it would he would have a "decreased sense of manhood." Since I’m the one wearing the shoe, I have more difficulty with the "emotional" details … "lucky" for me there was zero emotional connection or bonding which actually calms my nerves.

They both suck (obviously).

I think one of the worst things about being a BH that a BW doesn't have to think about is paternity. This doesn't necessarily turn out to be true in every (or even most?) cases, but it is something you have to go deal with that a BW doesn't have to deal with.

Societally, I think there are pros and cons on both sides. That varies by culture and country, but generally men are more "expected" to cheat than women which lets the WH off easier. I think this societal expectation is overall a bit harder on BWs because they are a little more unfairly expected to entertain R even if it isn't for them. It's harder to go against the grain with a more-or-less permanent decision "I'm going to D and not give R a chance" than to go against the grain by "refusing to burn the witch".

I do tend to agree the sexual and physical details tend to matter more to BHs and the emotional ones more to BWs. But I have no shortage of pain on what amounts to "EA only" as a BH.

As a BH, there were times when I thought the X rated pictures my wife sent the AP was the worst. Other times, I felt that their texting/writing back and forth (and WHAT they were writing) was the worst. Then there were times when I thought whatever physical stuff they did (she denies it to this day, so who knows...) would have been the worst. Then there's the songs they shared back and forth.

In the end, it all sucks. There's no other way to describe it. It's all one big pot of crap stew.

They are both the worst!! The pain, betrayal, humiliation, anger, etc. occur in both BH and BW. No difference. What bothers you most about being betrayed is individual to you. I don’t buy the generalities that paints everyone BH or BW the same. We are all individuals and our reaction to betrayal reflects that individualality.

I don't know that's it's necessarily as gendered in 2024 as maybe it was in past generations, but I think it's still more common if one spouse stays home with children that it'd be the mother more often than the father. And from that perspective, it really is a brutal reality to know that if you, as a BH, divorce a WW, in many states (mine included), you're almost certain to still have to pay alimony and continue supporting the woman who dealt you this shit sandwich even if you decide to divorce. Knowing that your only option out is going to devastate the financial picture you've tried so hard for years to build is rough. I think it's true of a BW as well because divorce is almost always bad for a financial situation, but there's something acutely painful about being the BH and knowing if I leave or however a divorce occurs, I'm going to be required to give so much that I've worked so hard for and continue giving financial support to the woman who created all this hellish pain. Factor in that the kids are very likely to still wind up primarily residing with her and I'll be paying child support to her as well when I'd much much much prefer (and think the kids would be better off) living primarily with me, and it just kind of feels like the whole family court system is stacked against fathers and husbands if they're the sole breadwinner. So that's not really an answer that falls neatly on gender lines anymore, but I still think it's a more common particularity that a BH has to face that really sucks.

As a man I find it so degrading for us when negative behaviors are associated with us being men.

Like... It’s seen as an animalistic and natural part of manhood to fight or use violence or to go to strip-clubs or get extremely drunk or spend a small fortune at strip-clubs. As a "man" I’m expected to spend all weekends watching football or playing golf and ignoring my family. And... as a "man" I should both be willing and capable of screwing anything that simply offers me the opportunity to stick my "manhood" into it.

There has been some attempt to group all this into the term "toxic masculinity" but I don’t like that term either. It’s a bit too much like trying to sell "honest lies" or some other contradiction.

Masculinity to me is a lot more...

At it’s basis it’s everything that makes a person – male or female or gender neutral or whatever – a good person.

It’s accountability, it’s fairness, it’s honesty, it’s treating people as equals, its repsecting your commitments, it’s putting your priorities ahead of your pleasures...

The "male" factor... frankly that’s limited to handing over the umbrella if rain catches you and your wife (or any other woman) unexpectedly. Its not punching back if a woman assaults you. Its waiting for clear consent before having sex – even with your wife (heck... for me – ONLY with your wife). I guess most of the "male" factor boils down to not using a physical dominance to get your way.

With all that in mind... I hate the assumption that me being a man would make it easier for me to cheat, and me being a man would only hurt me because someone took away my "possession". My pain was 100% based on the betrayal and how I was fooled.

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there were times when I thought the X rated pictures my wife sent the AP was the worst.

I guess my entry shows I’m old fashioned... Back in my dating days sending a dick-pick would require bribing the guy at the Kodak booth and spending a fortune in stamps.

I don’t get it...

I don’t get it how a person with kids and a family and maybe even a career thinks sending a file that can easily be sent to a gazillion places makes "sense".

I have shared this previously: A close friend has a daughter who allowed her then-boyfriend film them having sex. He took care not to show his face, but it was 100% clear who she was. When they broke up he shared the recording with some friends, and eventually one ended on a porn-site. My friend followed my advice and after a couple of months the file was removed from several sites based on the claim that the girl hadn’t reached her 18th birthday at time of recording. Previous to that some site had refused to comply to a request to remove the material due to lack of consent. The threat of Federal child-porn charges did the trick though.

I mention this because any OP can intentionally or unintentionally lose control of the material. OM phone can be hacked, he can lose it, share it with friends or... intentionally distribute the pics...

Then one day your 12-year old son is at the playground when Dave the school-bully shouts out "I saw your mom’s vajajay on the internet!", or you or your wife start to wonder why everyone looks your way and sniggers at the water-cooler...

I just don’t get it... Don’t get how someone trusts another person that way, especially when that person along with you are already doing an untrustworthy thing...

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:14 PM, Wednesday, August 14th]

Many BH here will insist they have it worse.

It's bullshit. It's all horrible.

The ONLY time I think a BH has it worse, is if the WW is pregnant. Or if they have to question the paternity of their children.

Regardless, it's not a contest, and nothing good tends to come of these types of threads.

Personally, I feel that anyone dealing with an OC has it the hardest. They have to deal with the ap forever. Or those who have a ws leave for the ap,and the ap treats the kids like shit. I can't imagine anything worse.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:07 PM, Wednesday, August 14th]

Without generalizing, I will say I notice more bh hold their feelings in. More males seem to come here with secret thoughts, secret pain, they try to suck it up. I think it’s because as females we are more likely to routinely discuss our feelings growing up due to… I don’t know if it’s societal programming or just natural of our gender…probably both.

I don’t think this is an across the board thing, there are women who come here isolated and bottling things up. But not all females were encouraged to identify and talk about their feelings. And no matter if you are I do think it’s a lonely/isolating for either gender.

As for physical versus emotional details. I think sometimes it depends a bit on what your spouse has withheld from you but seemed to be able to give AP. So if the person wanted more emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, words of affirmation, gifts, time, nude pics, whatever it is…I tend to think that is where your wound is deeper. All aspects of it hurt, but if you have been married for 15 years and had tried forever to get your husband to do a hobby but then he spends time doing a hobby with her, or let’s say the husband had ED yet managed to have a lot of sex with her, or often I think men tend to have the sex wound simply because they are most often the higher desire partner and feel that deficit more so that’s what they are more focused on.

But I do think gender programming and biology are aspects that can feed into what parts sting more, but not moreso than past trauma, Foo, unique conditioning, and what they value in a relationship.

I would say that beauty, or in this case horror, is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a bit of a sports nut. Love watching virtually any kind. But almost as much as the games themselves, I also enjoy watching the aftermath. Individuals react in so many different ways even though the winners are generally happy and those who came up short are generally sad. Some dance and carry on, others double over in sorrow, while others still simply shake hands with their opponents and leave the field. All kinds of responses regardless of gender. I guess I think that responses to being betrayed would a similar variability.

More males seem to come here with secret thoughts, secret pain, they try to suck it up.

Definitely me. It wasnt that I had a low EQ as I felt things intensely. I just stuffed it. I bought into the "never let them see you cry" school of thought.

This served me poorly.

There are those who admittedly have high IQ's but low EQ's but even they admit intense emotional pain on Dday and following.

As I'm a Trekie, I, like Captain Picard, envied Data when he clicked off his emotion chip.....

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 9:35 PM, Wednesday, August 14th]

Definitely me. It wasnt that I had a low EQ as I felt things intensely. I just stuffed it. I bought into the "never let them see you cry" school of thought.

This served me poorly.

There are those who admittedly have high IQ's but low EQ's but even they admit intense emotional pain on Dday and following.

I think it’s because boys are conditioned that way, primarily by others of their gender. Rub some dirt on it and move on. I don’t think it means men have a low EQ. And I agree, I don’t think EQ relieves initial dday pain.

But stuffing it for years at a time will not allow it to be processed like you said- and I see that more from the bh’s here than I do the be’s. Doesn’t mean the pain is worse, or better, but the coping around it is different (not across the board or generalizing)

As a BH who found out much, much later that my WW had conceived a child with the OM; a discovery that turned my life upside down and occurred decades after I had bonded with and raised the AP's biological son as my own child.it leaves you completely gutted at both the nature of the emotional and sexual connection of the affair and the depths of depravity and deception that your spouse used to lie, dissemble and perpetuate a fictional paternity. It adds to the burden in so many ways, not least of which is how the AP accepted no financial, legal or moral responsibility for his child.
WW' s AP flat out told her that he was not going to leave his family to marry her and with much to lose financially and professionally, her AP began to sing " Go away little girl" whenever he, her supervisor, ran into her in the workplace. And he cautioned her to tell no-one. WW was fearful I would divorce her after what was in many respects a " Me too" exploitation. I love my son, and the privileged jerk who was his biological father, thankfully missed out on so much. As for WW, our relationship is at times still strained, yet we mostly have an loving new connection.After I learned of her AP' s death some 17 years ago. I wrote him a letter full of disgust and disdain which I burned as I symbolically buried the SOB under a deep hedge of Oleander in our back yard..Crazy as that might sound it worked for me.

IMO, "betrayal is betrayal". Everyone I have talked to about it (regardless of gender) generally agrees it is the worst thing to ever happen to them. It certainly is for me. All of us betrayed have been treated like "we don’t matter" for our WS to exercise their selfish and foolish behaviors. I do think trying to measure "degrees of pain" or "who it’s worse for" is not helpful or productive.

Since I have become aware that I am a BS (many years after the fact), I have spent countless hours on Infidelity sites, reading books, watching videos and such. There are consistent theories on how infidelity impacts the genders differently. Most notably women are more impacted by the emotional aspect and men are more impacted by the physical. I have seen that play out to a degree. Many women lamenting "ILYs" and the emotional connection. Many men just happy they "caught it before they had intercourse" (not accounting for everything up to that point). THEIR "Rubicon" had not yet been crossed. My wife had 4 LTAs that were also emotional. She also had multiple ONS that were nothing but sex. I can’t say any of them bother me more than the others. I’m just bothered my wife was a lying, serial cheating, low integrity individual. Physical, emotional, etc. are just the manifestations of her character flaws. That she went outside the marriage at ALL is what bothers me.

I have also read many theories about gender differences around WHY people even cheat. Some people say women will not cheat unless they are unhappy or looking to leave the marriage. Women always connect emotionally with AP, etc. Not remotely true in my case. The old "men trade love for sex/women trade sex for love" trope.

I do think the way we are raised and "societal norms" come in to play. Girls being more free to "show their emotions" and boys told to "suck it up". I also think there can be more of a "stigma" associated to betrayed men . "Man cheats, poor woman. Woman cheats, poor woman." That also plays into some additional shame for men. I also feel this plays into the resources even available for betrayed men. Many of the men I know complain about books, classes, videos and even Counselors being heavily skewed to the "betrayed female" perspective. I ran into that myself in abortive attempts at MC with grossly unqualified MCs (Gottman trained and all) who were pretty clueless to the betrayed male perspective.

But is infidelity "worse" for men or women? That’s like asking if you want it "in the heart or between the eyes". Dead is dead. Betrayed is betrayed.

But is infidelity "worse" for men or women? That’s like asking if you want it "in the heart or between the eyes". Dead is dead. Betrayed is betrayed.

100 percent agree.

Man cheats, poor woman. Woman cheats, poor woman.

Here I think there are differences in the stigmas.

Many of us women were told "if you don’t have sex with your husband someone else will" and when they do cheat ishe must not have been taking care of her man" , "she must be frigid" which in many ways some of that stuff is actually just as insulting to men. I mean men have brains and even without sex they can decide not to cheat- there are plenty of faithful me. In the world, just like there are women.

I think though, men tend to be pretty shaming of each other "Don’t be a cuck" sort of mentality. (Trying to shame them that they do not have "control" of their woman)

When women cheat, there is a difference too in how that is viewed. "boys will be boys" but women are sluts, whores, etc. growing up that was the WORST thing you could be. When you consider this aspect, we are taught sex is for people who we love and not abiding by that is demeaning to yourself and your reputation. So I think women are sort of programmed in that way to look for that before moving into sex. And I don’t mean consciously, more like lizard brain stuff. Much of the time they will mostly read into the silliest stupidest worst things and call that love. I also think that many of us buy into this picture of romance. (Don’t get me started on that because what I know today as romantic is nothing like what fiction portrays it as)

As a result I think a larger majority of women attach to the AP as part of a license to cheat. And we more often aren’t as good of compartmentalizers as men are.l which make less of us who are "cake eaters. There are men who cheat who experience limerence, and there are women who cheat who do not. Both genders have some percentage of them who just do it for sex.

I am going to guess (completely my own conjecture so very scientifically faulty) that 70 percent of men who cheat are cake eaters who are master compartmentalizers who are looking for extra validation and sex. And I am going to say probably 70 percent of women who cheat are seeking an escapist romance fantasy that they swiftly get swept up in. They are bad compartmentalizers, you know they aren’t acting right, though some part of that group are still cake eaters while some other part it becomes an exit affair. The majority of the men having affairs with those women are cake eaters that are never going to leave their wife.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:04 AM, Thursday, August 15th]

I think it’s because boys are conditioned that way, primarily by others of their gender. Rub some dirt on it and move on. I don’t think it means men have a low EQ. And I agree, I don’t think EQ relieves initial dday pain.

But stuffing it for years at a time will not allow it to be processed like you said- and I see that more from the bh’s here than I do the be’s. Doesn’t mean the pain is worse, or better, but the coping around it is different (not across the board or generalizing)

For me it went a bit deeper than societal norms. I grew up in a fractured home that was unsafe (to say the least). My siblings and I learned quickly to keep our thoughts and feelings to ourselves. We were very avoidant of our volatile parent. Its all part of my FoO which took years of work to unlearn. Thankfully Ive overcome the lions share of these unhealthy tendencies and definitely communicate my thoughts and feelings on a regular basis. My wife may even say that I overshare now

Anyway, I think that folks with similar backgrounds gain the same learned behaviors regardless of gender.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:15 AM, Thursday, August 15th]

I am going to guess (completely my own conjecture so very scientifically faulty) that 70 percent of men who cheat are cake eaters who are master compartmentalizers who are looking for extra validation and sex. And I am going to say probably 70 percent of women who cheat are seeking an escapist romance fantasy that they swiftly get swept up in. They are bad compartmentalizers, you know they aren’t acting right, though some part of that group are still cake eaters while some other part it becomes an exit affair. The majority of the men having affairs with those women are cake eaters that are never going to leave their wife.

I tend not to trust any infidelity statistics. Lying is inherent and I don’t think any of the research is reliable. I am also of the opinion, that female infidelity is WAY underreported.

My wife must be the ultimate anomaly. She was pretty much solely a "cake eater". She was great at compartmentalization. When I asked he why she didn’t just leave and pursue the single life, she responded she "loved our life" (cake). She had a "goal" of seeing if she was "attractive enough for the APs to have sex with her" (not realizing having the appropriate parts and being willing to use them were the boxes she actually checked). She sought out men who wouldn’t leave (AP with pregnant wife, etc.) if they expressed feelings or talked of leaving spouses, they were quickly dumped. Most got dumped immediately anyway once they "validated her" with sex. No emotions leading up to that. Just selfishly using them.

I even told her "your story sounds like a cheating man". In reality, she was a "cheating man’s dream girl". No emotions, no commitment, just sex.

My WH says if the shoe was on the other foot, he would have an extremely difficult time with the physical aspect and that it would he would have a "decreased sense of manhood." Since I’m the one wearing the shoe, I have more difficulty with the "emotional" details … "lucky" for me there was zero emotional connection or bonding which actually calms my nerves.

For what its worth, I had a horrible time with the physical aspect. To the point of torment actually. The fact that it was with my then best friend compounded the trauma many times over. I lost weight. Had no appetite.
Sleep was terrible for a long time. Im sure depression and deep anxiety played their part. But....I bottled it up for "the sake of tbe family". What a mess.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:18 AM, Thursday, August 15th]

I also suffered from the physical aspect, although there wasn’t much of an emotional component. It easy to say, but I think knowing my personality I think I could have gotten over a strictly emotional affair, although not without a lot of pain.

More specifically for me was getting over the fluids exchanged. Thinking about how I kissed her or having oral sex with her within hours of her being with him still makes me want to throw up. Oral for her was a huge part of our sexual experience. Virtually every time. I liked giving, and she responded to it. I tried it only once after the affair and I actually came very close to throwing up. I told her to GTFO of the bed, and ran to the bathroom. It was horrible. She cried for days and I actually feel bad about as I that moment she had done nothing wrong, and the sex was actually going ok as I felt brave enough to go down.

We never did it again and I think that with the combination of my reluctance to kiss her ended up that sex was just penetration and in turn almost mechanical in nature. Obviously sex pre and post affair was vastly different.

I think either way it’s not easy. BW’s have their own set of awful thoughts to contend with.

So personally for me the fact the duration of the affair was quite short (1month) and the fact it was just for the physical nature was the only reason I could try to make it work with WH.

If there was any emotional connection at all I don’t think I could have stayed. But maybe that’s just what I’m telling myself 🤷🏼‍♀️ As soon as the affair was known WH dumped her arse so fast, even I was surprised lol.

I think this comes down to the fact I know prior to me meeting my husband I could easily have a one night stand with no emotional connection. I even had a friend with benefits at one point for the three months where there was nothing but sex. We ended it one day when I decided I wanted to start ‘dating’ again.

The physical part that upset me the most were the fact he touched her bum and layed with her after sex. You know the parts that to me are a bit more personal. As they say it’s the lying and secrecy that kills me. And the fact he can tell me physical affection is how he feels love but then chose to give that to someone outside our marriage.

I tend not to trust any infidelity statistics. Lying is inherent and I don’t think any of the research is reliable. I am also of the opinion, that female infidelity is WAY underreported.

I am sorry you misunderstand- I am saying this is how I have it in my head, which is only worth my two cents. I wouldn’t blame you for not trusting it! It’s just my own meanderings after reading this site over the years.

However I do want to point out that looking at my entirely made up evidence, I don’t think your wife is an anomaly. I think she is on the other 30 percent. That’s still one third of women.

Okay I will put my shoes back on as that is as far as my math skills go.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:40 AM, Thursday, August 15th]