SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why do you think our WS’s didn’t think of or care about consequences? Do you think they just downplay them?

I was discussing this topic yesterday with my WH and it just has me baffled! I asked him where did he think he would live our son if I had divorced him and he just said ‘I don’t know’.

Like he literally had no plans in place at all because he honestly did not consider the consequences of his actions. It’s actually one of his main flaws that he has since recognised in himself. I’m not sure if it’s arrogance or if it’s that he has never really much in his life to lose so never thought about consequences. Maybe it’s both.

I just don’t get it though. I never make one decision in life without thinking of every possible outcome. It still makes me shake my head in bewilderment

Webbit.

I asked my H those same questions. It would literally put his kids in such a horrible living situation. His child support alone would take his checks. Our kids would have been shuffled between two homes and I would probably have ended up in an apartment , although I think his parents may have let us stay here and have him leave.

When I asked him those questions and brought up the consequences he said he never thought of them because he never had any desire to leave us and he didn’t think he would have been caught. I think it’s hard for me to understand because if I were to have an affair it would have been an exit affair, I would never have one clearly but I know I could never be a cake eater and that’s what he was, therefore I don’t get it and I won’t ever get it.

I feel we have to go do a deep dark place full of mental gymnastics and an effed up thought process to ever understand what our H were thinking and I won’t ever be able to go there.

He thought he was clever , he thought he was smart, he thought he would end it with her before I ever found out and instead he found himself stuck and she was in too deep for him to ever be able to get out unscathed.

It sucks to really think about it because the kids and I weren’t a thought in his brain while he was with her so of course the consequences never really entered his mind. She was in one box and we were in a separate one.

The most he can give me is " I told myself it would all be ok in the end and you would never know."

Affairs are a playground of an escapist. Ws do not cope well with life. They like to avoid hard things, and they place a lot of emphasis on their own happiness because they can’t cope with the other facets of life.

I never knew what I was doing past the moment I was on while in the affair. If I let myself think about it for a moment, it was unpleasant and I went straight back to hiding my head in the sand.

You can’t weigh reality and escape at the same time, it’s not possible. Magical thinking must be applied. I said all the things "what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him" was the theme.

Considering these things we also have to face that we are the villain in our story. And we don’t like to entertain that either. It’s amazing how the justifications are our self brainwashing tool, and we don’t look any deeper.

We feed the thoughts that support what we want to do, not what is really happening.

Yeah I bring this up all the time with my FWH. He insists he compartmentalized and never considered the consequences. He said he had "main character syndrome," and that no matter what he did, he felt that I would always be there for when he had "gotten it out of his system."

And I guess he's correct. Subconsciously, abusers (and I believe infidelity is a form of abuse) feel the freedom to let their freak flag fly the more entrenched their BSes get into their lives together. We do not have a young-person relationship where if the relationship ends, then that's the only thing that changes in our lives. Unfortunately, his consequences are exactly my consequences: he loses his family, I lose my family; he splits time with the kids, I split time with the kids; his finances suffer, my finances suffer. Just add it to the list of unfairness.

My H always tells me that when he was with an OW, he felt like a single man and was guilt-free. And when an OW would try to bring me up or hint that she wants more than an A, he would shut it down quickly because then it felt "too real." He didn't want to think about how terrible he was. He just wanted to enjoy the validation and feel all the excitement of a "new relationship" without any of the complicated/deep stuff, ie wondering if they had a strong enough connection to sustain a relationship, making sure they had shared interests and values, meeting their friends and family--all the stuff you have to think about when you're single and wondering if you can share your life with another person.

For cheaters, it's just about the right-now. The relationship begins and ends with each text or kiss or what have you.

At least that's what I'm told.

[This message edited by Revenger at 1:21 AM, Tuesday, September 3rd]

Unfortunately, his consequences are exactly my consequences: he loses his family, I lose my family; he splits time with the kids, I split time with the kids; his finances suffer, my finances suffer. Just add it to the list of unfairness.

Of course I know this to be true, but I have never put it together quite as simply and directly as you have here. You have beautifully packed a big punch with this statement. And I do believe all cheaters (including myself) exploit that, even if they are doing so unconsciously.

I think that lack of consideration of this magnitude shows the ws is incapable of love at the time of their affair. And the pain that is inflicted is all stemming from that sudden (or for some not so sudden) absence of love.

I believe 100 percent that my affair stemmed from not loving myself, therefore not having it for others or being able to receive it from others. A woman who loves herself doesn’t turn away from a loving and faithful husband, to a man who is equal to her in he is devoid of love and using her to fill a void.

The artificial chemicals of the affair offer no comfort, yet we cut ourselves off from likely the one person they can confide in, be safely vulnerable with, and instead throw them to the lions to seek something that doesn’t even start to represent anything in their best interests.

This is not a pity party for the ws, obviously they are capable of making a different decision, and putting consideration in on what’s best for them, their spouse, their family. They choose not to. Because the truth is, they are not trying to escape their spouse, they are trying to escape themselves.

And nothing I have ever chosen in my life comes close to this level of destruction. Ruining my marriage, my spouse, and myself, for years. And the scars of this will live on as long as either myself or my husband are alive. Still, I know somewhere in that decision was weighing this evil act thing you have written- betting he would not be any more excited about ending the marriage than I was. Because if I wanted to not be in the marriage or to throw away my family, I certainly could have chosen that and with far more care.

For cheaters, it's just about the right-now. The relationship begins and ends with each text or kiss or what have you.

Yes. This is the truth. I think it’s part of the cognitive dissonance of holding two beliefs at once. There was one period in the affair that I had myself convinced that what I was doing was good for my marriage. I had lots of crazy reasons I could list but they no longer make any sense to me, any more than it would to you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:07 PM, Monday, September 2nd]

It's been almost two decades since my D-Day.

My WH didn't think about consequences because he didn't think he'd ever get caught.

His AP was a co-worker who lived 3,000 miles across the country.

Funny thing is the other BS (who also worked for the same company) discovered the emotional affair and confronted both my WH and his wife. The two of them promised they'd end all communication. Ya think that would have scared the sh*t out of them and stop them. Nope. AP told my WH she wanted him even more.

This is the reason I always support informing the other BS bc in my situation had the AP's husband informed me about the EA, the PA never, ever would have happened. He was naive enough to trust my WH word and his wife's word.

hikingout, it provides me with a lot of reassurance when a WS confirms how my WH felt--your viewpoint is much appreciated. For me, if my H had been in love with these women and entertained leaving me for them, it would have been much more difficult if not impossible to come back from. But knowing that others feel it's an escapism only provides more backing to what my H has told me.

My FWH said he grew up (unknowingly) feeling unloved and neglected. He likened the validation he got from his family to the rush of eating sugar packets: a temporary, immediate high, but ultimately unfulfilling and bad for him. So then he spent his life searching for sugar packet highs. Contrastingly, he said I was the big steak dinner, but he was so accustomed to wanting the rush from the sugar packets that he couldn't appreciate the t-bone.

Now that he understands the difference, he is sickened by the idea of eating sugar packets.

Ding, Ding! My WH was in la la land and didn’t weigh the consequences fully. He knew there would be consequences … but I don’t think he realized how much of a ripple effect they would actually have. He told me he was going to tell me or that he would have to tell me eventually because he couldn’t keep it a secret from me forever, but he didn’t know how to do this with it blowing up - he said the guilt would of been too much. I personally don’t believe him. I think if he could have gotten away with it he would have … he knew it had gotten to a point where there was no way of getting out scot-free. The fear he had in me finding out was fuckin real.

I’ve been thinking of the axiom "It’s better to beg for forgiveness, then ask for permission" - I think this is what my WH was hoping for. Funny, because he knows I’m not much of a "forgiver."

[This message edited by Heartbrokenwife23 at 6:01 AM, Tuesday, September 3rd]

My XWH is a diagnosed covert narc, so he really didn't care. People are to be manipulated into doing what he wants.

He didn't think he'd be caught. If he was caught, he may have thought that I'd cover for him (as I'd done so many times) and stay to keep the family intact.

Funny thing is that nobody wants to be around him.

Heartbrokenwife

"It’s better to beg for forgiveness, then ask for permission"

⬆️⬆️⬆️ This!

This was me our whole relationship. He just did shit and I would forgive. Example buy a big TV and install it knowing I would disapprove Maybe this was exactly the same. I am a very forgiving person, so much so my Mum is always telling me I’m too nice and people walk all over me. I think sometimes she’s right 😢

But I’ve definitely changed that is for sure. It’s hardened me more than I thought it could.

I’m too nice and people walk all over me.

But I’ve definitely changed that is for sure. It’s hardened me more than I thought it could.

Webbit, these words ring true for me. My wife now worries about my reaction to being disrespected, as she should. I will no longer accept being disrespected. PERIOD!

A friend of hers got pissy with me after I didn’t create a friendship with her new boyfriend the way she thought I should have. (I’ve always been shy and slow to make friends). Anyway, one night after sending him a friend request she texted me and told me she couldn’t believe how rude I am sometimes, then she simply told me I was entitled! This after I had done lots of home help projects for her for free because she was down on her luck and I felt she could use some help. I have blocked her and 100% cut her out of my life. Now my wife worries about me reacting the same to her and I hope that is motivating for her to never disrespect me again. To be fair though, I told her I have 28 years of life with her and I wouldn’t cut her off for less serious offenses but I’ll still not cower, now I’ll confront.

A few weeks ago during a discussion, she told me if she knew the reaction to the affair would have been as destructive to me as it has been, she never would have done it. Hmmmm, there’s that hindsight being 20/20 again, huh.

My greatest fear right now, after two years in reconciliation, is whether I gave the wrong impression...that I am too forgiving...Don't get me wrong! I think about this from DD, but at first it had to do mostly with what others think of me (including my husband). Now, though my thinking certainly includes my husband, it has more to do with me. My way of acting and reacting to various situations. So, I' m making sure, everyday, to make some self-brainwashing, and to repeat over over to myself my newfound mantra: you are not staying for another round of this shit. I used to believe that before dd, but now, I came to the realization, that if that happens again, I have to be ready, brainwashed ready, to LEAVE. No alternatives. And I am deeply sorry for my husband, who chose to do this to us, and now he is with a woman, who, instead of thinking how wonderful he is, even though we got bored at times, we fought for the kids etc through the years, he gets to have, this version of me..... It' s such a pity.... We had it all! At least most of the times...That should be enough. And I should mean more to him than any new adventure...

[This message edited by Phosphorescent at 8:46 AM, Tuesday, September 3rd]

But I’ve definitely changed that is for sure. It’s hardened me more than I thought it could.

To those who think 'hardened' is usually a criticism:

One of the things I liked about W2b was that she was clear about what she wanted, as was I - at least to the best of our abilities. When we each knew what the other wanted, we could resolve differences amicably. That often meant one of us would not get what they wanted. We both said 'yes' enough times that a 'no' to a request here or there didn't kill our relationship.

I didn't realize that my W was co-d. By the time of her A (45 years into the relationship), she was deep into trying to please me by reading my mind, which she didn't do well enough to make her happy, so ....

Standing up for oneself doesn't make one 'hard' IMO. It makes one easier to be with, IMO.

Standing up for oneself doesn't make one 'hard' IMO. It makes one easier to be with, IMO.

I agree 100 percent. Understanding and having boundaries is important in every relationship.

If I know your rules and you know mine, it feels less personal. If I break your rules or overstep it’s clear that I need to apologize. (And this really isn’t referencing cheating or other rules like that you shouldn’t have to outline in a relationship)

I still struggle sometimes, when someone treats me poorly I used to spend a lot of time thinking I have done something wrong that I have to sit and identify. I can’t tell you how freeing it is to understand that most of the time what people say or do doesn’t have anything to do with me. I will still consider my actions, but I don’t ruminate and obsess anymore. My boundary is if you have a problem with something I am doing, and you don’t state it, then I am allowed not to worry about it. It’s no longer my responsibility to grovel and read minds.

I don’t think that is being hard, I think that’s how I manage to to stay sane and look after my happiness. I wish it didn’t take almost half a century to get there.

I know if I lie, my marriage is over. I know if he lies, it’s the same. Some people would not walk that hard of a line, but secrets, half truths and lies belong nowhere in a relationship with respect, especially with the one you promised to love, honor, and cherish.

I know it feels awkward and forced when it is new or like you feel you are being hard. But when the cogs get moving on your boundaries and enforcing them there is a deep clarity there that is instrumental for your own self actualization.

Even if considered by a WS, it is necessary for them to dismiss the consequences as unlikely or worthwhile.

WS, as explained, are doing escapist stuff in the first place. They are ignoring reality, and so in their estimation of damage done also ignore reality.

Consider the following lines of thought:

1) "If I get caught and she forgives me, I won't lose anything."
2) "If I get caught and she doesn't forgive me, my marriage was already broken and not worth saving. Really when I started this A, the M was already over in my mind."

No matter how you slice it, the WS chooses to believe (as a lie to themself) that there are not really consequences to the A that wouldn't otherwise exist without the A. They are not, in their mind, a cheating piece of shit being horrible to you.

Yep^^^ Nailed it.

Revenger's WS sounds a lot like mine - total fantasyland.

I also asked my WH these questions. For background his A was with a married co-worker. The OBS also worked with them (so WH, AP and OBS all worked together). Their work is very specialized and they are a very tight knit group, and most of them were close friends who socialized outside of work regularly (WH was actually a groomsman in AP-OBS wedding and I would say the vast majority of people who work with them who were not working at the time of the wedding were present). They went on vacations together, had parties at each others houses - the works.

I don't think my WH ever even got to this level of thought:

1) "If I get caught and she forgives me, I won't lose anything."

2) "If I get caught and she doesn't forgive me, my marriage was already broken and not worth saving. Really when I started this A, the M was already over in my mind."

Why? Because he thought he would never be caught. Even after d-day 1 where I, you know, caught him. He really thought HE controlled everything so the consequences of getting caught were not the issue for him at all. He told me on d-day 2, after a year of false-R and the A ongoing, "I never thought you would find out."

Ultimately I didn't ask nearly as much about if he thought about what would happen to me me as I figured he thought I would just be gone somehow. I think in his fantasy world where he ran off with the AP into the sunset I would never find out about the A and instead would leave him (for whatever reason - that part was not really thought out). So, for me the bigger "what were you thinking" questions came in regards to his life post-me, presuming I did leave and was none the wiser about his A.

I asked WH "What did you think was going to happen? Did you think that AP would divorce OBS and you would just slide into his shoes, going to all the parties and vacations now with AP and OBS would just fade away into the background? Or did you think OBS would say 'no harm, no foul' and just continue to hang out with the group and you-AP like nothing happened? Did you think you would just get a place with AP and help raise AP-OBS' toddler?"

In the beginning he really didn't want to address that at all. And honestly, I don't think he had really done anything aside from fantasizing about how that would all go down, without any real consideration to the reality of what that would look like. He actually seemed a bit confused when, after I outed the A to the OBS, I told him "OBS wants nothing to do with you, but will remain civil at work I'm sure, likely because he has to for the time being. But rest assured it will be a cold day in hell before OBS is your friend again." I think WH had convinced himself that somehow OBS was going to magically be okay with WH screwing his wife for years, and stating their undying love for each other, etc, without any real problems. Like OBS (and everyone else he knew, especially at work) would realize AP and WH's love was so "special" that he could not deny them being together and he would just be totally cool with that.

Now, he says that he really didn't think about it seriously except maybe once, when he and AP were carrying on fantasizing about their fantastic life together they were going to have despite all these evil forces trying to keep them apart, and he said to her "we would probably have to transfer out and move" and she said "no, OBS probably would instead." That was it - problem solved. When their love became public OBS apparently would just transfer out (not an easy task with their job - and it takes about 2 years to pull that off anyway). Otherwise it was all fantasy. He never really thought about actually living with AP and her young child (WH did not want any children and after having one with his now ex-GF years ago had a vascetomy at like 26 to avoid having any more).

He never really thought about, or cared to believe, what the real aftermath of their A was going to be like. People at his work found out and, shocker, took the side of OBS, deciding both WH and AP are dirtbags. WH is no longer invited to any of the work parties and his social life went from doing something with people all the time to zero, just like that. IDK what happened to AP after she and OBS divorced - before that AP was still invited along because of OBS but once they divorced IDK what happened as WH never gets invited to those things anymore so no idea if she does.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:14 PM, Wednesday, September 4th]

They are not, in their mind, a cheating piece of shit being horrible to you.

Hmm. I think my H felt like a cheating piece of shit all along.

After the first A (ONS), he said he wanted a D. He couldn't handle the guilt. He changed his mind two days later.

Two years later, he said he wanted a D again. I essentially told him to cut the shit. I chalked those two episodes up to Desert Storm PTSD.

7 years later, he started A#2. The guilt had been consuming him all along and making him a stress monster. Might as well get some strange and make the stress worth it. That A petered out.

5 years later, he started A#3. A few months into that, he started preparing to leave me. He didn't not want me anymore, but he couldn't keep living in the dark and he knew that when he told me what he'd done, I'd leave him.

He thought about the consequences as soon as he ejaculated during A#1 and he carried the stress and worry about the consequences until the day he confessed. He knew he was being a horrible piece of shit.

Consequences are definitely what they put their heads in the sand about.

Only the timing of our situation meant the thing was crashing down around my WH from the moment it was physical. I had already realized she was a capital P Problem before the AP decided to kiss her boss (my WH). It may actually be part of why she kissed him. She knew I was furious that she had gone for a ride on our motorboat and I was gunning for him to fire her. But because I was furious he had promised to fire her within 2 months (not from the company just so she wouldn’t be his day-to-day assistant). But there were also a ton of new rules (no talking at night or weekends, no staying even one minute past 4:30, total phone/texting transparency) so she was now PISSED. How dare I accuse her.

By kissing him she boxed him right in. It was actually smart of her. Now if he fired her she could sue him.

So he created this whole delusional fantasy where if he was really nice to her she would decide SHE wanted to stop working for him. He thought she would do whatever he needed because he was her boss so of course she would do what was best for him. And after all his wife was freaking out so maybe she would do the nice thing and just disappear. With no consequences to him whatsoever.

Surprise surprise that whole no consequences thing didn’t work out. He finally had to push her out because SHOCKINGLY she didn’t want to fire herself so as not to inconvenience him. He was so surprised she didn’t just let him take his cheap feels in the office for two months and then politely walk off into the sunset.

Instead the whole thing blew up and that made everyone so uncomfortable that HR asked her to leave the company with a severance agreement.

According to my EX, she too rationalized what she was doing thinking she wouldn’t get caught. First it was going to be only once so no one would ever know. Then when it continued she still thought that the project who her AP was working on would be coming to an end and no one would know.

She did become quite aware of the consequence of her actions as she found out the other workers knew and even scarier for her, she thought the AP might threaten to tell me if she didn’t comply. Stupid thinking as he was a coward and never would have put his marriage in jeopardy that way.

At this point, she still thought I would not find out, but if I did, she was convinced that because we had 25 great years, it was just sex, she not only had no feelings for him and was now bordering on hatred, and she hung her hat on she was never going to leave me for him. Somehow these factors in her head made her think the consequence would be a really bad time, but not the end of the marriage.