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I told him last week that I wanted to separate for a while (THANK YOU to everyone here who supported me in my last post!! It gave me courage.)

It makes a lot of sense from a practical standpoint for me and our daughter (15yo) to live closer to her school, and it would give me some much needed breathing room from WS, who has been on me like butter on toast lately to open up more. Now he is desperately promising the sun, moon, and stars (i.e. "I will figure out how to be a better person/the person you need/safer; I will quit alcohol/tobacco/video games; etc."), and he is miserable.

I feel really bad for him. Whatever shreds are left of my heart ache at seeing his pain, but I am really at the end of my rope. It's been 4.5 years since his affair started, a bit over 4 years since I noticed something was really wrong with our marriage. I'm tired of holding it all together. I'm tired of incremental changes that are never enough. Maybe I'm just one of those people who can't get over infidelity. I tried for 1.5 years to make R work, but for the past 6 months, I've given up and rug swept. Well, that isn't enough for him. He wants to be more than roommates and co-parents.

We have a two-hour couples therapy session (after nearly a year off from CC) later this week. In the meantime, what do I do? How do I cope with his misery? I'm a kind, patient person, and I really wish he would make this easier on me. He thinks fighting for our marriage is the right thing to do. He keeps begging me not to give up on him or us. I have no fight left in me, but I'm willing to take some time apart to see if that changes. He wants to keep working on R even if we're living apart. I don't. Is there a solution? Should I just go ahead and do what I need to do even if he's opposed?

You certainly don't owe him anything. From a purely clinical standpoint, he broke the marriage contract by cheating. Waiting 18 months to make a decision could hardly be considered impulsive.
Take the break with your daughter and see how you feel. You may decide to give him another chance, or you may like being single. Give yourself some space to really understand what you want.
Your empathy is commendable, but don't capitulate at the expense of your own healing.
Stay strong.

Good for you - you have to do what’s right for you and you’re doing it! I need some of your power and courage! My story is so similar to yours, I’m the same timeframe as you 1.5 years off d-day and he had a 4 year affair. Currently staying because I’m afraid to be alone and I’m afraid I won’t have a family as I’m 31 now and by the time I heal and meet someone else and then decide to try I’ll likely be past it. So I’m staying from fear. I, like you, feel like actually I need to separate and have space to clear my head but I fear he’ll be exactly like you WS and begging not to. And I’ve not yet found my strength to initiate this.

I can understand it’s conflicting when he’s begging not to separate but the damage was done long ago and you gave it a fair shot! Unfortunately (in my experience and from reading so many different books and forums) they kill a part of our souls when they cheat so they are forever changed in our view which makes R hard to begin with. Let alone when more truth comes out among all else.

To be honest you’re not alone, I don’t think there are many people who actually ever gets over infidelity when it shakes the core of the relationship that severely and makes you question yourself and the life partner you thought you knew. But some people can put that aside and work through and for a lot of people it’s a deal breaker. It doesn’t make either option right or wrong and you’re not a bad person for trying again before realising nothing has changed and wanting to separate. You gave more than he deserved by offering a chance to R.

I hope the separation gives you the space and clarity you need to heal and decide how to move on long term! Can I ask why are you bothering with couples counselling this week if you’re set on the separation?

He wants to keep working on R even if we're living apart. I don't. Is there a solution?

Yes the solution is you separating. R doesn’t stand a chance if both parties don’t want it. Maybe the separation will make you realise you do want to try again and go all in. Or, the separation might heal you and you’ll feel free from the pain of infidelity.

Good luck!! You have so much courage.

Tell him you need some space to process and not be around him for a while. If he loves you and wants to help you heal, then he can do this for you. Let him know that your nerves/brain are on overload and you need some calm time.

Should I just go ahead and do what I need to do even if he's opposed?

Yes. You should be practicing self-care and do what you need for your healing. He needs to work on his own healing.

Your empathy is commendable, but don't capitulate at the expense of your own healing.

It is so hard to do this. I hate seeing people in pain, even WS despite all the pain he put me through.

If he loves you and wants to help you heal, then he can do this for you.

This is what I keep thinking too! The fact that he's struggling with it so much is disheartening. I feel like it's based on his anxiety and fears at what he's about to lose (me, time with kid) than about supporting what I need. Like he still can't cope with his own pain in order to help me heal mine. I don't know if that's a fair assessment on my part, but that's what I feel.

Can I ask why are you bothering with couples counselling this week if you’re set on the separation?

LittleRedRobin23, the session is a) to help me with my resolve, and b) to hopefully help WS cope better with it. I'm hoping the CC will help him see the wisdom of not fighting the separation and that it doesn't have to spell doom, but also that if it does lead to divorce, that will also be okay.

I'm so sorry about your situation. If it helps at all, I didn't have a kid until 34, and I have friends who didn't have their first until their early 40s. You're 31 - definitely not too old to start over and build a family with the right person! If WS and I didn't have a kid, I would've been gone much sooner. Please leave and begin your healing as soon as you can. It will work out for the best. 31 is still prime adulthood. You have more time than you realize.

Also, LTAs are terrible. So damaging because there are so many memories and associations across that kind of time. I'm really sorry you're dealing with that too.

You can walk away knowing you did your best and gave the marriage everything you could — but it just no longer works.

As for the CH - he has not done enough in all the years to make you want to remain married to him. Words don’t mean anything and you probably recognize they are empty promises.

I hope you find some peace in your life since the holiday season is fast approaching.

I relate to both of you little red Robbin and No thanks for the memories. My husband had a short affair as I found out pretty quickly but has continued contacting her behind my back for nearly the past two years. Trying hard to end it but then breaking it when things are hard with us. He doesn’t meet with her just by phone so in his mind he hasn’t broken anything. When I find out he begs for my forgiveness makes changes that I want, helps with the kids loads, swears blind he won’t contact her again, deletes her number tells me he has told her he hates heretc, etc. wiSo I have alot of empathy.

Like little RedRobbin said I think it is amazing that you have decided to temporarily separate. I feel I can’t think properly with my husband there so getting a break will let you know what you really want and not just his influence. I am a people pleaser too and I have poor boundaries so always cave. The strongest I felt and I wished I had remained strong was when I kicked him out when I first found out.

If he really wants you as leafields says he will wait and put the work in. Let him be miserable as he didn’t think about you when he was with the AP.

How some cheaters manipulate emotions when faced with the consequences of what they’ve done!

One consequence of cheating on a spouse is for the BS to separate. At that point the cheaters may become desperate to hold the familiar life together and so they promise the moon etc.

What really irks me is how they may try to manipulate the spouse in staying. They prey on the BS emotions…don’t give up on me or on us is their battle cry.

It is not up to them to decide what is the right thing to do. They lost that privilege with their betrayal. And it is irrelevant whether they are opposed to a separation. It is now up to the BS to make ´the right thing to do. ´

And you have made it. And he knows it.

I kicked my fWS out on d-day. We separated for months. During that time, I fell apart Emotionally, but got support and started finding my own way. It was liberating as well as scary.

During that time he chose to live with his AP in her home. But suddenly wanted to return to his familiar life with me.

I tested his resolve by imposing control boundaries and patiently waited. I did not waiver and had doubts.

The R began once I gave him a final chance and he moved back in, not before.

Your husband needs to understand that during separation it is healing time not reconciliation time.

You need to heal, let your emotions settle and eventually choose a path that makes the best sense for you and your daughter.

Godbless.

If you relent based on his promises, he will blame you when his life gets difficult. IOW, you describe a setup for failure, a setup to bring on more pain. If he doesn't stop drinking and stop cheating for his own reasons, he won't truly change.

My reco is to continue on your path to separation. If he actually stops drinking, gets the support he needs, changes from cheater to good partner - then, maybe, you'll consider R.

Many Ms fail because of the WS's behavior after d-day, not from the A itself. Your H has shown himself to be a pretty poor candidate for R. Right now, you're in a zero-sum game - his pain goes up as yours goes down. His pain goes down as yours goes up. That's not good for anybody, and it's especially bad for him.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:45 PM, Tuesday, November 19th]

I would continue with the separation and go low contact so that he isn't harassing you with all the love bombing and promises. Sometimes we have just had enough. My xWS promised me everything I had asked for when I finally decided to leave. The thing is I was just like you. I felt done, had no sympathy or really empathy for him left. I was repulsed by him. I knew I had to leave.

If he really wants you as leafields says he will wait and put the work in.

Yes, I'm curious as to whether he will continue the work or he'll allow himself to fall apart and wallow in self-pity. Guess what's happened every other time?

Your husband needs to understand that during separation it is healing time not reconciliation time.

This is what I'm hoping the CC can get through to him! I keep trying to say this, and his brain goes into panic/freeze mode, and he can't hear it. If you believe in attachment styles, his is clearly anxious-attachment. I've spent 30 years dealing with it, and I can't do it anymore.

If you relent based on his promises, he will blame you when his life gets difficult. IOW, you describe a setup for failure, a setup to bring on more pain. If he doesn't stop drinking and stop cheating for his own reasons, he won't truly change.

I've told him this. He doesn't want to believe it of course. He thinks it's fine to be motivated by a desire to save or marriage and win me back, etc., and I keep telling him he needs to make these changes because *he* believes it's the right move for *himself*, otherwise he will resent me if his actions don't lead to the desired reaction from me. Again, maybe our therapist can get him to see/believe this. He is resisting it so much. I don't know why it's so scary for him to just do something for himself.

Right now, you're in a zero-sum game - his pain goes up as yours goes down. His pain goes down as yours goes up. That's not good for anybody, and it's especially bad for him.

I've pointed this out to him, and he counters with "losing you and my marriage and time with my kid is also bad for me." He thinks somehow he can get to a place where he doesn't cause me pain. I don't know - when I look at him, especially when he is trying to be loving, all I see is the pain he caused. He seems to think that if he does the right things, he can get me past that, but it's been 2 years since dday1. I feel like I'm in a more emotionally stable place overall, but the pain of the past is just as intense.

My xWS promised me everything I had asked for when I finally decided to leave.

Ugh, why are they like this?? And you know, this isn't the first go-around. After dday2, when I went to see the lawyer, he swore to shape up. He did a few things. It lasted a few months. And then it fizzled out as other things became more interesting. Same thing again when we did in-house separation in August 2023. He signed up for the Affair Recovery waywards class. Was really into into for a while, made some good discoveries about himself, finally disclosed more voluntarily for the first time (a second AP 10 years ago!!) ... but then, after a couple months, started doing the "homework" at the last minute, didn't have any additional aha's ... fizzle.

WS has noticed that all his life, he works best under pressure. Meanwhile, I hate drama and strong emotion, so I do not enjoy being put in a position of having to apply pressure to get what I want. crazyblindsided, was this the same dynamic for you?

WS has noticed that all his life, he works best under pressure. Meanwhile, I hate drama and strong emotion, so I do not enjoy being put in a position of having to apply pressure to get what I want. crazyblindsided, was this the same dynamic for you?

Yes exactly the same dynamic. I am the same if I have to apply pressure to get someone to do something forget it.

My xWS would make small changes and always revert back to who he really is. I was not falling for any of it anymore. In the end even if he did change I was so done I was cooked. Had nothing left in me. All I wanted was some peace of mind and that's exactly what I found when I divorced. It has been heaven and best decision I have ever made for myself.

All I wanted was some peace of mind and that's exactly what I found when I divorced. It has been heaven and best decision I have ever made for myself.

I keep telling WS that I just want some peace. That's why I want the separation. I'm glad to you know have found it! I'm afraid he's going to keep pushing for R. He told me that during the affair, he and AP would "break up" for a week or so, and then he would become desperate for her and resume contact and she would cave. I can't help but feel like I'm heading for a similar pattern unless something forces him to back off. Really hoping that the therapist can help deal with this in a healthier way.

"Understand that promising me everything doesn't mean anything if you don't provide it. Your tiny amounts of progress and last-minute panic aren't any kinds of indicators that you're willing or able to work your way into being a safe, stable marriage partner. Grand gestures and drama are not a substitute for solid, permanent progress.

Our separation doesn't take that opportunity away from you. I do hope you'll take your work in this area seriously. My decision to separate is final, but the situation doesn't have to be. I'll be watching to see how your actions or inaction informs my future decisions."

Then,(for the love of God) follow through. Most waywards will do the bare minimum to skate by, so set the bare minimum as the whole hog.

I hope it goes well, you sound exhausted, which will always happen when you're doing the heavy lifting on a burden that wholly belongs to someone else.

-M

After dday2, when I went to see the lawyer, he swore to shape up. He did a few things. It lasted a few months. And then it fizzled out as other things became more interesting. Same thing again when we did in-house separation in August 2023. He signed up for the Affair Recovery waywards class. Was really into into for a while, made some good discoveries about himself, finally disclosed more voluntarily for the first time (a second AP 10 years ago!!) ... but then, after a couple months, started doing the "homework" at the last minute, didn't have any additional aha's ... fizzle.

And you're contemplating playing Charlie Brown to his Lucy AGAIN????? (If you don't know that that means, let us know.)

You already know that's a failing tactic.

You're trying to change him. You can't do that. A CC can't do that. He has to see it for himself. You won't save yourself until you focus on your own changes. Those are changes you can implement.

He's not the problem that you're posting about. Your unwillingness to follow your path is. It's not guaranteed to work well - but it has a much better chance than following a path that you know leads to more pain.

*****

I urge you to set a goal of 'finding joy' rather than a goal of 'doesn't hurt too much.' Staying with you H is not R. I urge you not to stay unless you think it's your best way to find joy.

Then,(for the love of God) follow through. Most waywards will do the bare minimum to skate by, so set the bare minimum as the whole hog.

I hope it goes well, you sound exhausted, which will always happen when you're doing the heavy lifting on a burden that wholly belongs to someone else.

Mindjob, yes, I'm utterly exhausted by this whole thing and ready for some respite. Definitely following through this time! I don't think I'm going to set any conditions for R because that means watching him and his behavior, and I'm done with that. I want to focus on myself for a while. He can do whatever he thinks best, and after some time, we can see where things are at.

And you're contemplating playing Charlie Brown to his Lucy AGAIN????? (If you don't know that that means, let us know.)

You already know that's a failing tactic.

You're trying to change him. You can't do that. A CC can't do that. He has to see it for himself. You won't save yourself until you focus on your own changes. Those are changes you can implement.

He's not the problem that you're posting about. Your unwillingness to follow your path is. It's not guaranteed to work well - but it has a much better chance than following a path that you know leads to more pain.

*****

I urge you to set a goal of 'finding joy' rather than a goal of 'doesn't hurt too much.' Staying with you H is not R. I urge you not to stay unless you think it's your best way to find joy.

sisoon, thank you. I do get the reference, yes! And I agree with everything you've said. I'm determined to move out. I'm no longer interested in changing him nor in asking for changes. He's on his own now. And you're right - I've been too wishy-washy, but I had good reasons (work deadlines; kid mental health). Now that I've cleared those things from my plate (unemployed; kid has a steady therapist), I have the physical and emotional energy to tackle separation. WS has had plenty of chances and time to change. The main reason I'm not going straight for divorce is for the kid's sake. I think a quiet separation will be easier on her than a divorce, with all the attendant custody issues. My health is too poor for dating, so I don't really care if I'm still technically married for a few more years.

That said, if WS is unable to make the separation peaceful, I will head to the divorce lawyer. I am at the end of my rope.

I have been living this similar scenario for far too long and completely agree it can be exhausting. My X seems completely miserable in her life mostly due to her actions.

HOWEVER I discovered that I can control the situation but not playing the game. All because someone wants something does not mean you have to give it or refuse it, I can simply just proceed with my life and agendas. The moment you can accept that the WS does not actually have any control over us except the control we give them its becomes easier.

Caution, I'm not saying everything just gets better with a snap, its doesn't but we can manage the WS especially when for some odd reason they desperately want something they so willingly threw away. Remember a WS had not issue putting us into a world of fecal matter, we do not owe them redemption or even forgiveness at our expense.

Use your logical brain and decide what is best for you even if its letting them back in. Just make certain its the decision that is best for you and NOT THEM.

A couple of thoughts:

1) you've pointed out that it's easy to say: act on your own behalf, and the way to do this is to take a giant risk right now. I hope I remember to add, in the future, 'but first prepar yourself and kid(s), if any, for everything going pear-shaped. Preparing for separation, for example, is self-care at its best when it's not giving in to fear. You're doing yourself and your kid favors now.

2)

I don't think I'm going to set any conditions for R because that means watching him and his behavior, and I'm done with that.

Requirements don't necessarily turn you into the police. If you establish measurable criteria, you know almost automatically if the requirement is met, and it's easy to say, if appropriate, 'I see you're not meeting this requirement. How shall we resolve that?'

Sometimes that results in altered behavior, some times an altered requirement, sometimes something else....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:00 PM, Thursday, November 21st]

An Update:

So we had our two-hour couples counseling session today. WS talked for the first half hour. I talked for maybe 15 minutes, and then we got into the back and forth. At some point in the second hour, I dropped the D word and said it's time to talk about it openly. I also said the bottom line is that it's been 2 years, and I'm not happy. For our kid's sake, I'm willing to try the weeknight separation model (kid and I come to the house on the weekends). I said I'm putting my foot down this time about needing a break from couples stuff/R, and I offered periodic (every month or two) couples counseling sessions to silo those talks.

Our CC managed to talk WS down from a few rounds of distress. He was doing a bit better in the end, and managed to talk to me about some logistics in the car on the way back. I think our CC got it through to him that this could be good for his mental health too. I don't think he fully believes it, but he calmed down at least. He asked if I could give him any hope, and I reminded that I don't do hope anymore. CC pointed out to him that I hadn't filed for D, and also that people get back together after separation and even divorce, so nothing is ever truly final.

In the end, I stuck to my plan. Kid (15yo) is ready to go after the semester ends. I still don't think she has a clue about the affair, but maybe she recognizes that things aren't right between me and WS and the apartment might be good on multiple levels - for herself and for me. Only time will tell.

I'm not terribly hopeful about WS's determination to change everything, everywhere, all at once, as our CC put it. LOL. He's already slid back into playing video games at times when kid and I are not playing with him. Now that I've made it clear it's all up to him, I'm guessing he will make more allowances for himself, and that's fine. I need to get back to not caring, not watching. Ultimately, I need to focus on what I want, not on who he is. I find myself slipping into well-worn thought patterns, too, but I'm trying to catch myself when that happens.

sisoon, to your excellent points:

1. Yeah, I'm ready for things to go pear-shaped. I even told WS that if the separation leads to him losing feelings, he should just tell me and we can make a clean break of it this time. I've got my ideal property split spreadsheet made, my solo living budget figured out, and a letter of explanation written for the kid. All would need to do is call the lawyer.

2. I really want to see what WS figures out for himself. He claims that he is finally going to do some real soul searching and try to change. I'm waiting to see what that looks like (assuming his motivations lasts past a couple months).

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 1:40 AM, Friday, November 22nd]

That sounds like a good update, NTFTM.

I think that you should take some time to just decompress. All the stress you've been under, along with the pain of infidelity, can really take a toll on your body. Practice excellent self-care and do some fun stuff with your daughter. (Even if it's just getting pedicure kits or something from the Dollar Store.)

Make decisions when YOU are ready. Remember, NO is a complete sentence.

My XWH didn't do the work, so we are D. The peace and contentment are worth anything that he could offer me. Sisoon's nugget of wisdom to make your goal finding joy is awesome. Do that. Find joy, peace and contentment. How did I know I'd found it? I started humming along with the radio again and realized I was happy for the first time in a very long time - about 10 months after I had moved out. Sometimes, it isn't a big crashing wave sweeping over you, it can be a gentle whisper that you've attained your goal. Derived from Janet Oke's book Love Comes Softly, but sometimes you need to show yourself some self-love.

I got a few bracelets that I wore when I was in a lot of pain (Zox). The two I wore most were "It's ok to not be ok" and "You are enough" and another that had the word Survivor on a heart. Take some small steps to help you feel safe, grounded, and special.