SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's not perfection: ..it's the minimum

Hellfire is right. It is not hard to go no contact with the AP when the ws fully understands what it does to their spouse.

I could not imagine the level of disrespect to say "yes, I cheated on you with this person, it destroyed you, but my feelings about her are more important than your healing"

This is why people are outraged for you.

I think you are outraged for yourself and you keep trying to make peace with it, and you seem to want us to agree with that. You said yourself that cheating is an act of violence. So I guess if I used this analogy he has gone from punching you in the face to slapping you? Just because the level of abuse is less doesn’t make it not abusive.

I fully understand that you are saying, you have children together, life works day to day, you need him financially, and you can’t leave. You don’t feel you have the power to even say "it’s her or me" and be able to follow through. So I will ask you- what are you hoping to get from us? It’s clear we are not going to agree to or condone his behavior.

The work that goes into a reconciliation requires both people working on their own healing and then together they can heal the relationship. Instead it sounds to me that your husband is not only not willing to work on himself, he can’t give you the bare minimum of going no contact with someone who should now be fully irrelevant in your life. You can’t heal from his disrespect and betrayal while he is still doing it. Two unhealed people can not heal the relationship. You can have a surface level relationship where the day to day works fine, but this is not reconciling.

And the more we try and take your side and say you deserve better you argue that you do not deserve better. That you will take good enough. Quite aggressively. You are going from place to place looking for a way to accept it, but if you do accept it then you are abandoning yourself in the process.

No contact is the BARE MINIMUM behavior. He can’t do the easiest part of the whole thing. You can’t make that make sense.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:51 PM, Tuesday, February 27th]

Because he has not worked on the issues that caused him to have an affair, he is extremely likely to cheat again. So, the current other woman may not be a good candidate for his future, but the next one might be.

Esther Perel is a hack, who makes her living giving excuses for cheating spouses.

He can’t do the easiest part of the whole thing.

He can. He just won't. He is choosing to keep this woman on the back burner,knowing how much it hurts his wife. It's extremely cruel.

Op..his refusal to cut off this woman, who has caused you so much pain..his lying to you about it..is emotional abuse.

Molly, you stated:

Yes, I wished my relationship were an exclusive relationship in all forms, that he behaved with me like I do with him, I don't flirt with anyone, however I am secretly in touch with a person whom I have never met, who helped me so much during my time of big difficulties in the middle of the crisis and my husband does not know anything about him (we are not flirting at all, we are just being helpful to each other) and he would be very shocked to find out I did not share this with him. SO at the end of the day I have my secrets and they are proper secrets.

I’m sorry but how is your having a secret friend not the same as him having her as his secret friend?? I think you’re involved in an EA of your own. If your WH isn’t aware then who’s not being honest here? You call them "proper secrets"? Friend, these are just plain ol secrets. All of which are harmful to any marriage. You want him to respect you and go NC with his AP, but you have your own side piece going on. You say you wish your relationship with your husband is exclusive in "all forms" but it isn’t; not with you engaging in secrecy of your own. You want him to behave with you like you do him - well he is. He’s got her on the side and you have your secret man friend. You are demanding honesty, transparency, respect - but you’re not willing to give the same in return.

Well, then I have an emotional affair with you and all these people here whom I telling intimate things in secrecy and I feel understood.

If you don't consider that would you consider to be an emotional affair, Molly?

Do you view your husband’s ongoing relationship with the other woman to be an emotional affair?

It is a limerance as a residual of an addiction. I am not saying I am happy with it. I am saying it is not guiding my life. It is not the most important part of it. It has been the longest silence they have had. So I am optimistic he is slowly removing her form his life. If one day it becomes unbearable; I will take on the many pieces of advice I have been given and of which I am grateful.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:25 PM, Wednesday, February 28th]

It's been 6 months, because she hasn't made contact. Not because he cut her off. There's a difference.

It's also possible he realized you were reading his messages, considering his career. Maybe he's found a different way to communicate, or has another phone.

Regardless, you get to decide what you will tolerate. If you're ok with occasional contact, that's your business. But,if you are not ok with it, please don't pretend to be.

This male friend...does his wife know about his communication with you?

This male friend...does his wife know about his communication with you?

Does yours know about our communication? I understand your concerns, and I understand that we are on an infidelity website, but honestly , I am not the one who cheated! Despite at the time making me live a miserable life, I never thought of betraying him. These accusations and constant judgements are starting to make me feel sick.

Btw before I met online this guy (who had been betrayed by his wife, a therapist!!), on another website another man suggested exactly how to approach my husband the first time I did speak to him without even mentioning the betrayal. Are you so narrow-minded to think that THAT was an emotional affair, too? I was looking for suggestions and he was able to not judge me and was very helpful. For all I know it could have been a woman or an AI generated suggestion.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:03 PM, Friday, March 8th]

You call them "proper secrets"? Friend, these are just plain ol secrets. All of which are harmful to any marriage. You want him to respect you and go NC with his AP, but you have your own side piece going on.

I don't know why you have to be so judgemental. All I am talking about with this man is how he did it to survive his wife cheating on him and I ask him suggestions on how to fix my husband's contacts to this FB. His wife is a therapist and yet was able to cheat on him. He made a huge inner journey and became a mental coach for his company to support people with suicide tendencies. He told me exactly what books he read, he passed on to me meditations, the number of the therapist he went to and who became mine, too. He is nothing else than emotional support, he is showing me strategies like you guys are trying to do here. Initially we were just speaking via a website dedicated to infidelity in our country, but that closed down, so we exchanged our email addresses. I have a vague idea of where he lives but I don't even care. We have never planned to meet. It is reciprocal support on the matter that is dealt with here as well. Please don't be close-minded and see the evil in everything because this is not the case. I find it ridiculous even to justify myself for something TOTALLY innocent. As I wouldn't tell my husband if I went to see a lawyer (and confide in him/her my personal issues in total confidentiality!!!) to discuss about our marriage until I make a decision, I will not tell him a person (and actually many people here too) is helping me because I have a marital issue. Period.

If you are unable to see the difference, please refrain from commenting on my thread because I feel so badly judged when it is not me who needs to be judged.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:40 PM, Wednesday, February 28th]

Does yours know about our communication?

If he wants to come here,and read what I post, then sure. He is well aware of SI,and my username.

There is a difference between using a public forum, and privately messaging a married man,and hiding it from your husband..and his wife.

Are you so narrow-minded

Please stop trying to insult people who are trying to help you. You say you aren't trying to be aggressive, then you turn around and sling insults.

People are not judging you. We are pointing out that private communication with the opposite sex, communication both of you hide from your spouse, is not ok. You want him to stop communicating with her,yet you are getting emotional support from a man and hiding it from your husband.

Instead of getting so angry, perhaps step back,and think about what is being said.

How would his wife feel, finding out he was privately getting,and giving,emotional support from another woman? Or do you think she deserves it,because she cheated first?

How would his wife feel, finding out he was privately getting,and giving,emotional support from another woman? Or do you think she deserves it, because she cheated first?

To be honest especially being a therapist herself, having all the tools for communication she is probably even more guilty and has a much greater responsibility than anyone else. She knew also the consequences of the trauma and still went ahead with her affair and never apologised. I just hope she doesn’t do in her practice as much damage as in her private life. She did not care to see his pain after the affair came out, she has never wanted to discuss it so if he can’t get from her any support it is not my fault he looks for support and gives support to many people who have been stabbed in the back by those whom they loved. End of discussion.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 4:23 PM, Friday, March 1st]

** Not Posting as Staff **

Gently, all you know about your partner is what he tells you, right? If he's just a guy trying to start an EA, you are responsible for being a willing partner.

Also gently, Shirley Glass defines an EA as a relationship that includes secrecy, intimacy (talking about things with the EAP that one doesn't talk about with one's BS), and sexual tension. Having been around here for 13+ years, I'm not so sure that 'sexual tension' needs to be part of an EA. In any case, you haven't copped to sexual tension, but 2 our of 3 is pretty worrisome. Besides, you don't know if your source of support feels sexual tension in his relationship with you.

so if he can’t get from her any support it is not my fault he looks for support and gives support to many people who have been stabbed in the back by those whom they loved. End of discussion.

That parses out to:

His BS is causing him to cheat.

If you want to heal from being betrayed, you need to be honest with yourself above all; then you need to be honest with others.

I think starting with the goals of resolving your pain and figuring out what you want (and what's attainable) is your best option. I think you may be directing your anger towards us and WSes in general when it's really anger at your WH. If so, you're doing yourself and SIers a disservice that won't help you heal.

My reco is to breathe deply, give up defensiveness ... in general, act the way you wish your WS acted.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:29 PM, Thursday, February 29th]

You said.

But if I decide to stay there is nothing that will force him into something he hasn't matured, so this is what I need to know. I either accept that or I can file for divorce. That is entirely my choice.

This is 100% correct and we all agree with it. We are very unsure why you would choose to accept it though. You seem to believe that we are also accepting it in our relationships because we don’t have any way to know for sure if they are in contact. Or that we are not accepting who they are. To me it doesn’t matter. I have been very clear that if I ever find out that there has been any contact at all that is not immediately disclosed, I will be filing. Period. She is free to continue or reconnect if that is who she is but I will not be her husband. I am not willing to set myself on fire because it would be uncomfortable or hard for her. Just like I would not have remained married had I known it was going on. It sounds like you set a boundary but now that it has been broken, you are trying to twist logic to make it acceptable to not follow through and do anything about it but your heart is not following that logic. If you really were ok with this, you wouldn’t be upset by it. It is your choice. No one here will fault you for staying if you decide that. We just want you to love and value yourself more than it would appear from our outside perspective. You don’t have to find justification for him. You can decide you are ok with it or not.

On the other betrayed man you are talking to…. As a betrayed husband myself, he should know better! I knew from the instant DDay that it would be extremely dangerous to share and get compassion from an opposite sex person outside a public setting. He is absolutely getting something out of it. Unless he has made it a forma business and you are paying for that, it is very grooming like behavior. I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t tell your husband that you are in communication with this other man even if you don’t reveal the contents of that discussion. You would tell him you are seeing a therapist even if the discussion was kept private. That is what is bothering people…. I don’t think you believe your husband would be ok with it and that is the reason.

I do want to finish with acknowledging that we see your pain. We feel it. Lots of us have been there and gone through the most excruciating experiences of our lives dealing with this. I hurts that you are another one joining us. I feel a pang of sadness every time I see a new name.

I don't agree with those who believe you can't have opposite sex friends. Back in my college days, decades ago, I had many female friends with whom there was no romantic tension. I think wherever you decide to get support is your business, but if it ever comes up in conversation with your husband and you lie about it, you have a problem. That would be leaning into an emotional affair.

We can see your anger toward your husband's AP. The way you reference her is very telling. I know from experience, because after decades, I still feel that way toward the POS that interjected himself into the relationship between my then fiancée, now wife, and me. I also know that the anger will create physical and emotional problems for you. Maybe you're here trying to justify that anger, maybe to gauge others experience with similar experiences. Either way, you will be well served to try and deal with the anger in a way that it doesn't cause you distress. If accepting the status quo is your way of doing that, then fine. But don't expect complete honesty and fidelity from you husband.

Using the old Ann Landers (an advice columnist from years ago if you don't know the name) advice, compare the pros and cons of staying in the marriage, then decide if you're better off with him, or without him, and proceed accordingly.

It appears you also may be here seeking confirmation bias. You're looking for us to say what you're doing and thinking is normal, and OK. You won't likely find that confirmation as most here won't condone any kind of infidelity. Only you can decide that. Again, are you better off with him (and the baggage that entails), or without him (less baggage).

It's your life... Whatever you decide is OK.

[This message edited by Adolfo at 5:50 AM, Friday, March 1st]

That parses out to:

His BS is causing him to cheat.

Who are you to say a person you don't know anything about cheats? I am starting to be really uncomfortable here. I thought it was a group of people who show empathy and compassion but all I am getting now is judgements which I find really offensive, insulting and add nothing useful to the conversation.

Just to be clear this man has made his goal in life (a part of many others) to HELP people who have been affected by the same horrible pest called betrayal. He had a trauma and lots of people with traumas do create charities for example to offer help to people who have been traumatised by the same situation and they do it for free. It is their way of transforming a big pain into something positive. He does it online for free. His wife doesn't know the pain he is in and that SHE caused. He does it anonymously because he doesn't want publicity as none of his friends know about his wife's affair and because that would affect her professionally since she is a psychotherapist herself and helps people who have been betrayed.

I am out.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 4:38 PM, Friday, March 1st]

As I wouldn't tell my husband if I went to see a lawyer (and confide in him/her my personal issues in total confidentiality!!!) to discuss about our marriage until I make a decision, I will not tell him a person (and actually many people here too) is helping me because I have a marital issue. Period.

When any of you consulted a lawyer and told them about your difficulties in your marriage and you were exploring the possibility to divide your assets and divorce, did you all say to your spouse "Oh, btw today I am going to see the lawyer about our marriage, I will see you at dinner tonight"??

NO! Each one of you went to discuss private matters related to your spouse without your spouse knowing and the fact that you paid for that doesn't make any difference. Just so you know, I consulted a FREE lawyer at the time, we secretly met twice online, so I must obviously have had an Emotional Affair (PLEASE STOP ACRONYMS!!) with him too, since he was a man, he was a friend of mine's divorced boyfriend. The name was given to me by a female friend of mine, who knew about my struggles and had tried to help me. The fact that she is a female is ok? Actually, with all the same sex relationships that are possible, I cannot understand why nobody insinuates I could have had an emotional affair with her, but nobody thinks about it....actually my husband's ex mistress after him had a lesbian relationship, so as you can see it can happen also between people of the same sex! You really need to be more flexible and not see the bad in all things.

I will not reply to anyone on the matter. Thank you and goodbye.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 2:41 PM, Friday, March 1st]

When any of you consulted a lawyer and told them about your difficulties in your marriage and you were exploring the possibility to divide your assets and divorce, did you all say to your spouse "Oh, btw today I am oing to see the lawyer about our marriage, I will see you at dinner tonight"??

No, but that's like saying talking about my vagina with my gynecologist and a guy I met over the Internet are the same thing.

Also gently, Shirley Glass defines an EA as a relationship that includes secrecy, intimacy (talking about things with the EAP that one doesn't talk about with one's BS), and sexual tension.

Exactly so, "sexual tension" for an Emotional Affair to take place there MUST be sexual tension, an attraction and with this male guy THERE IS NONE OF THAT, N O T H I N G! So it would be nice of some people apologised for being so judgemental and insulting.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 4:37 PM, Friday, March 1st]

** Posting BS to BS **

Who are you to say a person you don't know anything about cheats?

I responded to what you wrote.

But if I decide to stay there is nothing that will force him into something he hasn't matured, so this is what I need to know. I either accept that or I can file for divorce. That is entirely my choice.

Yes. That's the choice you're faced with, and you seem to be angry that so many of us think that you are doing yourself a disservice.

It's very true that I can't force my W to do anything, unless I use physical force. That's the point - I don't WANT to force her to change. If she doesn't want to change for herself, she may fake it, but we won't make it to R. I used to test her every which way I could (though I waited a long time before using the scariest tests). She passed every test, so our R has been successful.

I wanted her to choose change for herself, and if she hadn't, I think our best course of action would have been to split. Splitting prevents one's WS from imposing more of the hurts that come from being together. Splitting also opens one up to a truly fulfilling life.

Your WS is problematic at best as a candidate for R, from what you have written. Your posts seem to say you view post-d-day life as a losing proposition whatever you choose to do. In actuality, you can survive and thrive despite being betrayed, if you let yourself heal. You don't have to stifle yourself and find satisfaction in a hidden relationship with someone you now only from words on a screen.

True, these SI's are only words on screens - but none of us is invested in what you choose to do, except as peer counselors. What we post is our best ideas about how you can heal. You are truly free to follow the advice or not, and we're all interested in you and the results you obtain. None of us will say, 'I told you so,' if you reject our advice and come back later to say we were right.

I've been here since 2011, and I've never seen 'I told you so from a member.' I HAVE seen, 'You knew more about my sitch than I did.'

One thing you will learn is that you really need to pay attention to ideas that cause emotional reactions in you. Ideas are, after all, just ideas.

*****

Posting as a MOD

You are responsible for adhering to the guidelines, one of which is:

Please refrain from name calling, attacking or shaming, publicly or by using the SI.com Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others.

While you may not think you've violated that guideline, others think you are at best very close to the line.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:51 PM, Friday, March 1st]

If you're still here; we wouldn't walk into your home and insist you only speak French when you're used to speaking English. By that same token, this is the home of the people who made this site, and the people who frequent this site. There is a list of acronyms on one of the front pages for those who haven't read enough here to know what they are. I suspect you know what they are, but just choose not to use them. You don't have to USE them, but you can't dictate whether or not other people do.