SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks HikingOut! Really kind of you.

Darkness Falls - she won't go to MC. I have begged her so many times. And you hit the nail on the head as regards how I feel.

She has given her entire being, time and love solely to the kids. There is so little left for our marriage. So little time to connect and be partners. It is lonely. I just want a balance. Not 30 minutes here and there where we just sit and watch TV and don't even talk.

nekonamida - she never admitted affair. We didn't discuss it. I found out though and let it pass as I loved her and wanted to fix what may have caused her to go there. I never told her I knew what she did. And yes, it hurt a lot when I discovered what was going on. In my own house. When I was at work.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=617173&HL=56960

Sorry I couldn't bump it, the thread was closed. This link will take you to it though.

No stop sign.

Did you confess the A to your wife and apologize to her and the entire family for your huge betrayal ? if not, that's the first thing you should do to help you break "the fog", Full exposure with ALL family and close friends typically replaces the "beautiful, romantic and exciting" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more you hate the A, the more you will hate the AP and the less likely you will probably be to cheat again in the future.

If you still work together with your AP you should find a new job, also don't forget to get tested for STDs/STIs (your wife should too), yes you've been playing russian roulette with your wife's health, some serious STDs (and now Covid19) could even remain dormant for years.

Honestly your case is very typical, you separated to test drive your AP, but then started to miss your home and family, then went back to your "old life" and started missing AP, of course your AP didn't have to do all the tasks of raising your kids, house chores, etc., and that alone makes a huge difference, what you should do is man up and face life, be more creative and go to IC or find a new counselor.

Oh gosh, I am sorry I have been all over your thread. But one more thought for now.

Confessing is really important. I am going to give you the reasons that it is important to you first because I think that's probably going to be more compelling to you.

1. You can not restore your integrity without confessing. Without restoring that, you will not be able to absolve your shame or fix the self worth issues that got you in this mess to begin with.

2. It's very difficult to romanticize this situation when you have distilled the details through your wife's eyes. I will say my husband knows everything and it's about the equivalent of feeling like he was in the room and saw what happened, or read what I wrote.

From a relationship standpoint, it's difficult to recover the relationship without both people knowing all that has occurred. It seems you would like to restore the relationship but have no idea how to do so.

Also, from a relationship standpoint, you can't get remorseful without understanding the damage you caused. Without remorse, you are not going to be able to access her internal world well enough to create new connection.

And, plainly, she deserves to know what is happening in her life. She deserves to be able to make her own decisions based on this information.

I'm a BS, so take this with a grain of salt.

Sounds like you both have a TON to unpack on both sides of the street.

That your BW/WW doesn't want the details makes it all the more complicated.

Yet, I agree with HikingOut in that YOUR integrity does not begin to gain solid ground until you come 100% clean about it all. A GOOD therapist can help with that. I'm a fan of CSATs (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) and you don't have to be a SA (sex addict) to avail yourself of their training & experience.

Both of you may want to consider doing full disclosures of each other's affairs, in a therapeutic setting, to provide a "baseline" (so to speak) of what's transpired. The IC/CSAT can help in shifting language/focus from selfishness to empathy (for both you and your BW/WW) and can help frame the "ground rules" of what info is disclosed to the other partner.

It sounds like both of you - for whatever yet to be determined reason - are OK with avoiding the elephants in the room, and all that entails. Call it conflict avoidance, cognitive dissonance, magical thinking, or whatever. That's not a way to have any kind of a relationship, IMO. BOTH of you will need to learn vulnerability and empathy. And no matter what happens in your M, I am confident that both of you will benefit from learning those skills.

I would also recommend reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. There's a "windows and walls" analogy that's often used WRT infidelity.... that the WS closes the "windows" with their BS, and builds walls in that space, while opening what should be a "wall" and creating "windows" with the AP(s). So as the walls between the WS/BS thicken, the windows between the WS/AP open... and heartbreak ensues.

At the end of the day, I think most on SI (and MOST - but not all- therapists who try to help couples heal / R after an A) will say that the AP is not some magical unicorn that lights the path to happiness. The path to happiness lies within ourselves, our values, our integrity, our courage & strength. Not some other person who is also broken to the extent s/he is willing to shag a married person.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:24 AM, January 26th, 2021 (Tuesday)]

Comesinwaves,

You're cherry picking, or cake eating as some call it. Yeah stuff always looks great when we are going off to summer camp with no responsibilities.

I'll say this though. My BW and I forgot to tend to our M. We got tied up in the day to day, in being parents, siblings, adult children. We looked after everyone and everything else. My A brought me to the land of the living again, or so I thought. I was living in dreamland.

D-Day came and my BW's world blew up on her in an instant. I admitted to everything - just started vomiting up the facts.

You know what? We struggled but we decided to work on R together. I was shocked to see that she really did love me. I was even more shocked to realize how much I loved here. My BW acknowledged that if we were going to make a go of it we both needed to change for the better. We refocused on ourselves and our M.

Take this as an opportunity. Lay the cards out there and then commit to wanting to make things work, or walk away. Your BW may surprise you.

The Stop Sign has been added to this post. Betrayed Spouses are no longer able to respond.

When me and my wife reconciled, it was mainly on her terms (which is fair). I have tried to tell her what I want for us, for our marriage and for a while, it was pretty good. We went on some dates, did some new things in bed, had more time just us. But we are now right back to where we were. She just wants to watch TV nite after nite. We go through the motions of parenting. She never really wants to do anything much. And I am just not attracted to her like I was some years ago.

Have you asked your wife what she thinks of the marriage since choosing to "reconcile?" I put that in quotes because let's face it, you haven't reconciled and didn't even try to.

Do you think that there is a chance that you are rewriting your marriage history to appease your longing for the AP? It is making you feel justified, even though you didn't verbalize that here, to still "be in love" with your ap.

It's not your choice or right to keep your affair details from your wife. Hell yea you will hurt her even more than she is already feeling, but knowing all the details is her choice, not yours. Lots of us effed up in those regards by keeping details and TTing all over the place. That only destroyed our BS even more. For some, it was even worse than finding out about the actual affair.

You said she cheated before your affair. Did you use your affair as a revenge affair? Were you trying to one-up her?

You guys rugswept her affair and look where you ended up. If you truly do not love your wife anymore and truly do not want to be with her, then tell her so that she can find someone who does and can be happy.

You don't talk to your wife.

Your wife doesn't talk to you.

You had an affair.

Your wife had an affair.

Without communication there is no relationship. One of you has to take the first step to untangle the dishonesty that currently exists at the core of your marriage. Be honest and take that step - there's no guarantee that you'll not end in divorce but it doesn't sound like either one of you is happily married. Nothing short of death is final. Not even the ending of a relationship.

So, how can I get over her? How can I stop thinking of her? How do I let go of the what ifs?

Time helps. The more time away, the better it should get. Try training your mind to move away from thoughts about her-- I would think you therapist could help with this (behaviour modification techniques).

MY therapist asked me if there was a pie chart, how much is just the sex with AP, how much is the freedom (travelling, dates etc), much much is it emotional and care, how much is who they are. i.e, is it them you miss or the life they represent. I think it is both. I do not want to have sex or travel or date anyone else. It is her. The way she makes me laugh. How we get on. Her interests and hobbies. Her love of life. Her spirit. That is what I miss and want. But the life I can have with her, is also incredibly liberating and attractive.

So, she's the whole pie? Out with the old pie, in with the new? And when the new pie gets stale... then what? Can you think beyond the new? Cause everything eventually gets old. Everything.

Hi Comesinwaves,

I'm a WH too. Spent a year shagging a work colleague. It took me a long time to realize what a dopamine druggy I was. I got so fired up every time I heard from my AP like a drug hit. Came pretty close to f**king my whole life up. Took a long time to detox.

I'm three years out and NC with my AP yet I think about her all the time.

I'm reading a good one. The novel Into Thin Air has a major character, Beck Weathers. This guy was left for dead on Mt Everest. He somehow returned and needed a dozen operations to fix his body from major frostbite damage. I heard him at a motivational talk one time. He worked tirelessly to chase one thrill after another in search of something, he wasn't sure what. Finally, after almost dying, he learned what a great life he had before the failed expedition. He just failed to see it. I see mine now. I rather enjoy it.

Let's call the richest man in the world someday. We can talk to Bezos about how he totally f'd his gazillionaire life over for a bimbo. Trashed his wonderful family for sex.

[This message edited by Lucky77 at 1:36 PM, January 27th (Wednesday)]

Lucky77 - thanks so much for this message. Nice to feel not alone and not being judged.

Yes, is EXACTLY like a drug like obsession. I can't seem to stop thinking of her. Like everything, anything, brings my mind back to her. I try everything to stop the thoughts getting into my head and focus on anything but her - but it's like I NEED her in way I have never felt before.

She is a poison in my life. I know that, but I crave her still every single day.

I don't know how to PM on here - but if you can message me, be great to have someone to talk to one to one, who has been there and understands it!

Hi there Comesinwaves,

Welcome to SI.

A couple of things.

First, what you're describing is feeling a lack of connection with your BS and a sense of hyperconnection with your AP. This is common.

To quote Brene Brown, connection is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued; when they can give and receive without judgment; and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship.

How long has it been because you have felt seen and heard and valued by your wife? How long has it been since your wife felt seen and heard and valued by you? Neither of you is able to be fully seen by the other because you are both hiding things. Big things. Just because you know your BS had an affair doesn't mean she isn't operating as if she is hiding it from you. And it goes without saying that you are hiding things from her, including the fact that you know about her affair. The hiding and lying means you won't be capable of real intimacy and connection with each other because you can't really be yourselves.

I went through some very similar thought processes about my BS and my AP. I thought I could really "be myself" with AP. I felt like he "got me". And if what we were doing was wrong, it felt like we were both broken in some special complementary way that meant that we may be broken but somehow when we were together we were okay because we were so accepting of one another's brokenness. The grass looked oh so much greener on the other side of that fence.

The truth is that feeling of connection you have with your AP is a hotwired one that is founded on the worst, most fucked up brain wiring that you have. It literally is a drug, and if you go through the process of detoxing, followed by the work of identifying the broken thought processes you used (and are still using) to justify this choice and then take concrete steps to actually change out these thought processes for ones that are wholesome, you will see it too. You will never be able to change the fact that you had that relationship with AP and you had those feelings and thoughts about her at the time (including right now), but if you go through the process described above, you will definitely change the way you relate it.

The starting place is committing to integrity. Integrity is choosing what is right over what is more fun, more convenient, faster or easier. It requires honesty; no way around it. I don't know if you will be able to build a new relationship with your BS that is based on a true sense of connection, but I do know that if you are cannot be honest with her, and she is not able to be honest with you, it will not be possible to achieve.

Second, that guy Lucky77 that you can so relate to? To my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong, Lucky77) he has still not told his BS about his affair. When he first arrived here his posts were very much like yours, he was trying to get through withdrawal from his AP. He was advised to come clean, has been advised to come clean, many, many times because dragging the affair out into the light is a necessary step in changing how you relate to it. It is necessary for healing. And you know what? He just told you that, three years later, he still thinks about AP every damned day. He's become an expert in white-knuckling.

The grass is greenest where you water it. It is healthiest where you weed it, feed it, nurture it and care for it. So really it's up to you whether you are going to step onto the path of true healing or if you're going to stay in the same place.

Your marriage may or may not be salvageable, but you definitely are. Life with AP is not something that is ever going to be a healthy option for you. Start educating yourself on the true nature of infidelity and how it impacts the people involved. Focus on fixing you.

Proceed with conviction and valor.

Best to you from a fellow EvolvingSoul.

Comesinwaves

Like Luck77, I am another WS who has not confessed. Unlike him, I don’t really think about my AP any more. At least not in the context of missing her. I am on here quite a bit which of course reminds me of the A and her but I don’t regret ending my A for a nanosecond.

I’m not going to beat the confessional drum; you’re either going to do it or not. What I will say is think about who you’re missing when you think about your AP. Let’s be real, this is a woman who didn’t care you were married. Didn’t care what discovery would do to you, your wife or your children (if you have any). You can’t just push that aside. Those are hard facts regardless of whatever stories you may have told her about your wife/marriage.

Like you, I thought the sun rose and set on my AP. She was my soulmate. She understood me. I could talk to her. I lied to myself for a very long time about her.

I also lied to myself about who I really was. I always sneered at cheaters because I wasn’t that type of person. I had morals after all. 🙄. And then I became one. It’s very sobering when you truly see who you are under the facade the rest of the world sees.

Until you really see your AP for who she is, this cycle will continue. I was mooning over my AP for about 3 months and then decided to troll her FB page. Well wouldn’t you know, there were photos of her with her new soulmate on a beach in Puerto Rico. It literally knocked the wind out of me. It was at that moment I really realized what I had done and who she really is. Judging by what she had written, she was probably seeing the both of us at the same time. So I risked everything for just another broken person.

One of the things that I learned was the reason for my dissatisfaction in my marriage wasn’t because of my wife. It was because of me. My wife didn’t turn her back on the marriage, I did. As Evolvingsoul said, the grass is greenest where you water it and the same applies to your marriage. Once I got my head out of my ass and turned my attention where it should have been all along, things got better. Either put the effort into your marriage or leave. It really comes down to that.

Best of luck to you.

Hi, I’m a wayward who has lived the feelings that you are experiencing. I remember the crushing feeling in my chest when I would think of her. She was my “soulmate” and we spent years together in the darkness of our secret. Now when I think of her all I feel is sadness, regret, and shame and that’s ok with me.

You’ve gotten some great advice already so I will keep mine brief and based on my experience. Try to realize and remember that the affair was built on lies, you lying to your wife, your affair partner, and yourself. Your affair partner was someone broken enough and selfish enough to participate in all those lies. The way to get over her is to look at and fix yourself through counseling, admitting the affair to your wife and moving to a life you can feel proud of.

The journey is hard but the reward of the work worth it. If you’re lucky you will come out on the other side in love with and appreciative of your wife. I am no perfect person but I am who I want to be, true to myself and those that I love. I don’t think I would have understood or believed my own words when I was in your current place but they are true for me now.

This is a difficult one, man.

On one hand, I don't think you should be in a marriage that makes you miserable. On the other hand, you made a vow to love her to death and despite her flaws, as she did you.

I think you guys NEED to invest more time in yourselves, including going to couple's therapy. I think couple's therapy is a must if you are not already going. Because maybe there is a reason she is not doing much. In my experience, that means she is not happy with life either because people who are happy with life want to experience more than a tv screen.

I do think that it is best that you accept that the affair is over and I think it should stay that way. I don't think it's a good idea to start a relationship with someone who was willing to break a marriage apart. Not saying she would do it again, but you never know. It just doesn't sound like a healthy start. And my friend, this I promise you: even the passion that you feel for this girl will fade just like any other relationship. I'm gonna be frank with you, you may think your relationship with her was special and not like others, but it is. The passion will die given time, then what will you do? Seek out the passion again? You need to be willing to break the cycle now, in my opinion. I hope the best for you, dude.