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Thank you for all your comments. It's given me a lot to think about. I was worried that I was being too pushy on sex and not being understanding enough on potential traumas that he may have. It helps to know that other people would feel confused like I do.

Lonelygirl - When I read your initial post I seriously wondered if you were dating my XH. I waited to really collect my thoughts before posting because all I wanted to say was - RUN! Feeling confused and undesired is how that relationship started and it was how I spent the next 18 years. I'm five years post separation/divorce and STILL find I feel that way at times.

It's absolutely no wonder you are confused. He's giving you a ton of mixed messages. He claims he wants to be exclusive with you and seemingly behaves accordingly - but then hangs the caveat that you aren't actually his girlfriend because of the lack of sex...the very piece that HE is withholding. I see other examples of this push/pull dynamic where his actions and words don't match - and that's always something you should pay attention to. It concerns me because manipulation is frequently at the root of these kinds of inconsistencies. (Your confusion is a big tip-off to that.) It also serves to suggest that he may be really good at manipulation. (Your feeling undesired is a big tip-off to that possibility. "It's not him, it's you.") That's an even bigger concern.

Here's the thing: We can go down the list of possible clinical diagnosis, past traumas, sexual orientation, etc. - but how much does it matter? The most simple fact is you are in a seven month relationship that is leaving you to feel confused and undesired. That's the current reality that you are experiencing. You've made attempts to address the issue as you would with any other relationship issue by communicating. That's not offered any resolve. So at this point you have a significant issue that cannot be resolved with communication alone. It's either going to take substantial more effort - or it's not ever going to change. I know you are already trying to decide how much more effort you want to contribute to this. But you have to bear in mind that no matter how much effort you contribute, it will not change until he makes effort. So that is really the question - how much effort is HE making?

My next point is in anticipation of the upcoming chapter. If you walk/threaten to walk and he suddenly wants to have sex, please realize that this too is manipulation. It does not mean the issue itself has been resolved. It just means that you will either have to constantly "keep one foot out the door" in the relationship - or you will have to engage in your own acts of manipulation to sustain the intimacy distance that he likely needs to stay in relationship.

Here's the thing: We can go down the list of possible clinical diagnosis, past traumas, sexual orientation, etc. - but how much does it matter? The most simple fact is you are in a seven month relationship that is leaving you to feel confused and undesired. That's the current reality that you are experiencing. You've made attempts to address the issue as you would with any other relationship issue by communicating. That's not offered any resolve. So at this point you have a significant issue that cannot be resolved with communication alone. It's either going to take substantial more effort - or it's not ever going to change. I know you are already trying to decide how much more effort you want to contribute to this. But you have to bear in mind that no matter how much effort you contribute, it will not change until he makes effort. So that is really the question - how much effort is HE making?

Re-read this over and over and over.

Also, I just have to say the more I've thought about this the more disturbing I find it - and this is just my read on things. I just think this is some weird thing where he likes that you're wanting it, he likes that you're putting in the effort, he likes that you're wanting exclusivity and girlfriend labels - he likes all that because it makes HIM feel important and desired. The second he actually gives you any of that, you will no longer be making him feel important.

I dunno, my gut just says this dude is bad news - to be twisting you up to this degree this early on (or ever!) and to be acting this shady. Just doesn't seem like he is on the up and up really.

My take on this is that although no one is without baggage and no relationship is always easy, things shouldn't actually be hard. If you find yourself posting about an issue to get opinions from other people so early on, it's already hard. Let's be real, we've all done our time with hard. Life is too short for this stuff.

So he has obvious sex issues of some sort. That does not have to be your problem. His issues make him incompatible for a relationship with you. That's all you need to know. You aren't here to solve him. That's his job. If he has a sad story or a physical issue he's insecure about, that doesn't make him a bad person. Not communicating with you like an adult about it does make him a bad partner. Don't settle for anyone who doesn't clearly want you on every level. Maybe the biggest lesson we could learn from dealing with infidelity is knowing how to walk away when something isn't working for us. If I have to ask someone why they don't want to have sex with me, the relationship is already over. If I have to wonder if they care about me, the relationship is already over. We should be looking for healthy people to be in relationships with. Healthy people don't leave us feeling undesired and confused.

We should be looking for healthy people to be in relationships with. Healthy people don't leave us feeling undesired and confused.

Well said Dee!

It's absolutely no wonder you are confused. He's giving you a ton of mixed messages. He claims he wants to be exclusive with you and seemingly behaves accordingly - but then hangs the caveat that you aren't actually his girlfriend because of the lack of sex...the very piece that HE is withholding. I see other examples of this push/pull dynamic where his actions and words don't match - and that's always something you should pay attention to. It concerns me because manipulation is frequently at the root of these kinds of inconsistencies. (Your confusion is a big tip-off to that.) It also serves to suggest that he may be really good at manipulation. (Your feeling undesired is a big tip-off to that possibility. "It's not him, it's you.") That's an even bigger concern.

This pretty much exactly describes how I've been feeling. He tells me that he desires me and wants me, but then his actions don't match up. I get the whole sometimes my stomach hurts or I'm tired excuse, but it's been like that every week for months now. At first I thought he just didn't want to make the first move and that he was really respectful. But then I became more and more bold, and just outright told him that I want sex. A couple weeks ago I asked if I could give him oral sex, and he flat out said no. I felt so embarrassed to outright ask that and be rejected. But then I feel like if it was reversed, I would be telling my female friend that she could wait as long as she wanted to and that the guy is a jerk if he pressures her. So, just been feeling very confused.

Also, as an edit, we do kiss, dance, hold hands, and cuddle in bed. It's not platonic. Which makes the whole thing even more confusing.

My next point is in anticipation of the upcoming chapter. If you walk/threaten to walk and he suddenly wants to have sex, please realize that this too is manipulation. It does not mean the issue itself has been resolved. It just means that you will either have to constantly "keep one foot out the door" in the relationship - or you will have to engage in your own acts of manipulation to sustain the intimacy distance that he likely needs to stay in relationship.

I'm not worried about this. Once I decide to walk, I walk. It usually takes me longer than it should to make that decision, but I don't go back on it once I decide. Learned that one the hard way years ago.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 8:06 PM, Wednesday, January 26th]

But then I feel like if it was reversed, I would be telling my female friend that she could wait as long as she wanted to and that the guy is a jerk if he pressures her. So, just been feeling very confused.

If the guy wanted a partner he had sex with and the woman didn't want to have sex with him, he'd be wise to break up and find someone who wanted to have sex. That's just a mis-match and those happen all the time.

He tells me that he desires me and wants me, but then his actions don't match up

We say it all the time on SI to newly-minted BS's - pay attention to their actions and not their words.

So what are his actions telling you?

A couple weeks ago I asked if I could give him oral sex, and he flat out said no.

OK OK I know everyone is different and all, but... I have been with quite a few guys, my close girlfriends have been with quite a few guys. Not once, ever, has any of us known a man to flat-out reject this. Talking between me and the 3 friends I polled on this, probably upwards of 100-110 guys, and NOT ONCE has that offer been turned down.

I dunno LG10, to me it just sounds like this guy has some real weirdness and hangups with sex. Not that I'm saying that in a blame-y way - maybe he has some trauma, or is a CSA victim, maybe he has some level of disfigurement or something... Maybe 100 very legit reasons for his reticence, but the end result is that there's clearly a major sexual incompatibility here. The incompatible part can be worked through if you have two partners that are willing to work at it, but it doesn't appear that he is. And frankly, this early on with no real ties? Were it me, I would cut my losses and move on. Relationships are work granted, but they shouldn't be making you feel bad and undesirable and being this high-maintenance straight out of the chute.

You know, I empathize with counting the cumulative sunk costs of deciding to ditch a near-miss comfortable relationship, especially in these times! That's why I think an alternative to calling it completely off is to just let things ride while casting the net wider, if possible. The risk is much less, other than the risk of what can happen if nobody better happens along because little by little, the friend starts feeling too cozy to throw away. This is exactly what my experience was during the years I was dating only my BF (later SAWH.) I guess I'm a one man woman at heart, because after almost 4 years, I grew to feel a sense of guilt about just breaking up cold. So I decided I'd put him on notice and see where things went, but although he moved closer to intimacy, deep down, he never stepped up.

Just want to say that it's always easier for us to recognize pitfalls we see described here, than it is to be in the driver's seat dealing with one's real life relationship. Keep us posted Lonelygirl, we are rooting for you!

The least worrisome thing this could be is shame over a micropenis. Even if it's just that, the fact that he'd rather you feel badly over not being wanted sexually than risk talking to you about it doesn't look healthy. Hell, no matter what it is, he clearly prefers you to feel badly over this than for him to feel badly over this. No, that's not a good look.

Sorry - For obvious reasons, I'm not a regular poster in NB, so forgive me if I'm overstepping.

Long story short, if you can rule out medical issues he is protecting you from, and you can't put your finger on any other explanation, let this hypothesis marinate.

This was my hypothesis too. I wonder if he's a bit confused about his sexuality. The whole "its always guys night" and "what men want" and talking about sex a fair bit part also play into this. This line:

He has also said that once we have sex, his preference is to have sex every time we see each other.

Is totally bizarre, and seems like an overcompensation for something. The fact that he's in his late 30s and has never had a long-term relationship also seems like it could potentially support this hypothesis.

If its not this, its definitely something. Perhaps he has performance issues that he's shy or embarrassed about? Maybe its trauma? Maybe it *is* a micropenis. Regardless its a problem, NOT because you of the lack of sex necessarily but because he's not being truthful with you as to what the issue is. I don't think that pushing him on this is saying, "have sex with me or else." It sounds like the bigger issues is that you need him to open up to you about what is really going on.

If he is not willing to do that, then yeah, I think that there is a relationship mismatch here.

He has also said that once we have sex, his preference is to have sex every time we see each other.

This statement alone is incongruent. It suggests that, despite having gone seven months without, he's going to need it frequently. Which begs the question, IS he going without? This all screams of madonna whore complex to me, btw. You might want to explore that if you are not familiar.

I was worried that I was being too pushy on sex and not being understanding enough on potential traumas that he may have.

It's always been my view that for many BS, there was a history of overcompensating and making excuses for a WS's entitled or selfish behavior long before they cheated. It really seems you may be making that mistake.

You clearly expressed a need and desire for a certain type of (fairly common) relationship. You got obfuscation and word salad in response. What more do you need to know? He has told you where your needs rank in his life. When people show you who they are, believe them (instead of spending hours researching and learning how to "understand" not getting your needs met).

I don't mean this to sound cruel. He just doesn't deserve you. He sounds like a jerk, while you sound like a loving and caring partner.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:23 AM, Friday, January 28th]

I don't sense that it is a medical issue (ie STD, impotence, etc) because if it was, when you offered oral he could have deflected/denied it but offered to satisfy YOU. I have been in R with guys who had some medical reason why they could not and that did NOT stop the sexual intimacy.

You spidey senses are tingling for a reason. This definitely doesn't pass the sniff test.

And the whole thing of you NOT being his GF because you have not yet...well that is just BS. He is wordsmithing very carefully for a reason. Who knows why - but it is wrong. IE if he goes out with someone else, he thinks he can honestly say he is not in a relationship currently (or whatever).

In your early part of your R, did you talk about being exclusive, etc?

I am really sorry LG - this totally stinks!!!!

I've been so bothered by your situation and have thought about it all day, LG. I think it's because I look back and see this as the number 1 thing that I did not handle correctly in my life, the number 1 mistake I have made. This mistake hurt me because it kept people in my life who hurt me, but I made excuses and kept them around. I so regret this.

If I listen to my IC's voice in my head, she would say something like, "This is simply not ok. And instead of trying to make it ok, you need to say, 'Thanks so much. It's been fun and I wish you the best, but this isn't the type of relationship I want for myself. I don't think our needs are the same.' It's as simple as that."

I don't know why or if it makes us magnets for users and cheaters (probably), but it really does seem that a lot of people here on SI cannot draw this line. They cannot say, "No hard feelings, but this situation is not meeting my needs. Take care." Let's assume it's marriage, kids, sunk cost fallacy and all that. Then why can't you see that you are doing yourself a disservice by analyzing and trying to fix this situation with this kinda-sorta boyfriend? There are no ties, so let him go. It's not your problem to fix, it's his! And he seems not in the least worried about fixing it at all. Red flag flying high on that one.

So, just do yourself the favor that I never did for me but constantly wish I would have--say goodbye to people who don't meet your needs instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel to fix it. Respect your needs without apology. Don't question yourself or doubt yourself. You don't owe anyone an explanation as to why something isn't working for you.

I think for many of us, trying to be 'good and fair' to others is our Achilles Heel. We're so worried about other people's feelings that we disregard and minimize our own. Don't do it. It only causes relationships filled with disrespect and unmet needs. You are worth more than that.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:44 AM, Saturday, January 29th]

Oin, this one has really been bothering me too and you nailed down why.

Lg10, read this one over and over and over!

So, just do yourself the favor that I never did for me but constantly wish I would have--say goodbye to people who don't meet your needs instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel to fix it. Respect your needs without apology. Don't question yourself or doubt yourself. You don't owe anyone an explanation as to why something isn't working for you.

I think for many of us, trying to be 'good and fair' to others is our Achilles Heel. We're so worried about other people's feelings that we disregard and minimize our own. Don't do it. It only causes relationships filled with disrespect and unmet needs. You are worth more than that.

I think people who are naturally empathetic are definitely more prone to this kind of behavior, and I definitely think that narcs/users etc can sniff it out.

But bottom line imho is that this dewd is not showing you that he values you at all, and no amount of you being understanding or compassionate makes it okay that he's not valuing you.

I’m going to echo the last couple posters— this post has been on my mind for a few days. Something is very off here.
It’s like he wants to keep you unstable. I have bad feelings about this. Please take a step back and look at what you would say to a friend if this was them. Be objective and look at the actions, not the warm snuggly feelings.

Good luck-

LG10 nice to see you! I also have not posted here for a while and will post separately very similar topic.

Yes, I agree - when I feel like I have to post here I know something is seriously wrong.. and all the amazing people here usually confirm it.

I think: he is not having sex with you to avoid you calling his gf. That means he can flirt etc etc with others..

Also, he seems ambivalent to introduce and include in his life - again same thing re actually being gf. Logically speaking what are you if not a gf after 8 months !?!

As for sex its neither here or there - it’s just used to keep you at the distance. And agreed - it should come from him and anything forced is useless.

If you have international trip booked soon - I would say wait till that (and pray he does not have those horrible herpes) and see what happens then - I think naturally it will be make it or brake it trip. You might not even need any conversation - the events themselves will speak super loudly.

You have invested long time and trip is soon you might wait for your answer for few more weeks.

And fingers crossed - rooting for you!

Love, M

[This message edited by MelisssaZZZ at 6:37 PM, Saturday, January 29th]

Hi LG10, just wanted to reiterate what I said earlier...

61 yr old male here. Being specific because even now, if I date, intimacy has to be part of it starting pretty early. I don't speak for every man, but I'm just betting that I speak for many, if not most.

And point out that then a female poster wrote this...

A couple weeks ago I asked if I could give him oral sex, and he flat out said no.

OK OK I know everyone is different and all, but... I have been with quite a few guys, my close girlfriends have been with quite a few guys. Not once, ever, has any of us known a man to flat-out reject this. Talking between me and the 3 friends I polled on this, probably upwards of 100-110 guys, and NOT ONCE has that offer been turned down.

All this to say that even if this isn't my circus, I'm just damn annoyed on your behalf. No matter how you package it, lipstick on a pig and all that, this kind of rejection is hurtful and a kind of mean. He could have simply laid back, enjoyed, and made sure that the vulnerability you showed by making the offer didn't result in a twist of the gut. You just don't do that to someone you care for.

Sorry if I've come on strong here, but this issue of dismissing a loved one's vulnerability strikes pretty close to home for most of us BS's in the aftermath of betrayal.

So now I'll just leave you with these last two...

Let's be real, we've all done our time with hard. Life is too short for this stuff.

If I have to ask someone why they don't want to have sex with me, the relationship is already over. If I have to wonder if they care about me, the relationship is already over.

Maybe he is - a she.