SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What is a concerning to me is how sweet and normal he acts. It’s almost sociopathic. He comes home Mr. Charming and continues to make you think you’re the most special person in the world while he’s screwing a woman in an park every time he gets a chance. This is not normal behavior of a cheater. Most people will tell you his behavior shows some creepy Issues. Most cheaters back away emotionally, they act angry, or something, but in your case, your husband is Mr. wonderful. That’s the scary part.

SIC
The problem might be that you are trying to understand him using your moral- and behavioral yardstick, whereas he has his own set of measurements for what’s appropriate.
Generally, cheaters don’t cheat because their spouse is so terrible. It’s not for lack of sex, or you don’t do BJ’s or whatever. It’s because it gives them a sense of validation and power. That’s why the OW looks really don’t matter – it’s not because she’s so much better than you or that he wants to be with her more than you – it’s only because she’s available.

What evidence are you gathering? What value does the evidence have for you?
If your user-name indicates you location then infidelity doesn’t factor in divorce unless you can prove he spent a significant amount of money on the affair. A pack of condoms, breath-mints and some pizza don’t reach that amount…

All you need is to be convinced yourself. You don’t accuse him of having an affair and then have to prove anything. All you need to do and say is "I know you are having an affair."
Don’t have to mention OW name, where, how or anything any more than you want to. Don’t have to prove this to him or anyone else. All that’s needed is that you are convinced.

I have a pretty standard text to use when confronting.

"Husband. I know you are having an affair. I don’t share my husband, and I have no interest in being married to a man that is cheating. You are totally free to be with OW, date OW, spend time with OW or do whatever you want. But not as my husband.
We don’t have to argue or discuss the why and what and all that about why you are cheating. It’s just a fact you are.
I don’t share my husband, and sett you morally free from that role. I will start the process of legally ending the marriage and will hire legal counsel to guide me. If you were to tell me in a clear, accountable way and accept some requirements such as total transparency and accountability I would possibly be willing to explore reconciliation, but unless and until you make that clear I am simply assuming you have decided to carry on cheating."

And then you go do the dishes, prune some flowers or make yourself a sandwich. You don’t discuss the affair or the marriage or anything. It’s his role to either continue cheating OR offer what you required to reconcile.

I am so sorry to read this. I hardly ever read the Just Found Out forum because it's so triggering and WH are in a much better place now. But I wanted to chime in to let you know:

- It is never the Betrayed's fault. Usually the WS has mommy/daddy issues that they aren't even aware of that therapy will help uncover.

- He has probably been cheating throughout the entire relationship with other women.

- Once he knows you know, he will minimize, twist, deny, and trickle truth you to death, even if he thinks he wants to end the M. Don't believe anything he says without proof in the early months (perhaps years) and without intervention from an IC.

- It may seem impossible now or in the near future, but you can rebuild your M; however, the ONLY way for that happen is for him to take full responsibility for his actions and seek help. It will take a long time for him to get there--will you want to wait for him to get his head out of his ass? It depends on how young you are, if you want children, etc. If you don't have children yet and want them, it's best to D. You may not want to hear that right now, but you don't realize that the pain of having to share your child with a psychopath and his wifetress is a million times worse than making a clean break now.

- I seriously doubt anyone else besides me on this forum advocates for this (so take it with a grain of salt), but if he wants to stay with you (and you him), make him go full scorched earth on the OW. Do not let them exit the A thinking fondly of the other and leaving the door open for future contact or an underground A. This was one of my conditions, and it certainly helped me feel better about my WS severing the bonds initially. Now he's done enough work to understand the "fog" and his FOO really screwing him up. But he admits at the time it was an addiction to continue getting attention from literally anything with legs and he was a master at compartmentalizing, so he needed that push from me in the early days to screw over the APs to leave them hating each other. It was also an immediate consequence for him having to embarrass himself in the process of going full scorched earth, which helped lessen the injustice of it all.

- Also, if you choose to attempt R, an ironclad post-nup is a must. Make him have some more skin in the game.

Good luck to you.

I am sorry we had to meet this way...I do have a few observations for you:

1) You are getting caught up in what I call the "fairness game" - and I sure did the same thing. You are qualifying the aftermath of the affair as one of winners and losers. I too did not want my WH and the AP to "win" - and end up riding down the yellow brick road together while I and the OBS are left in a burning pile of rubble. I am sure I stayed on for much longer than I should have because I did not want "them to win." The sooner you can re-frame this the better.

The prize is NOT your WH. The prize is you. I mean the prize partner is not the one who is dishonest, manipulative, and scheming, and who will throw their partner under the bus in support of their own aims and goals. That person isn't participating in a giving and supportive relationship - they are in "it" for themselves. That's not a partner. Are you "winning" if you are teamed up with a person like that? You know the answer - and I too knew the answer, but it was so hard to let go of that winning/losing attitude - how unfair it was for me to be left with the ashes while my WH was being told how fantastic he was - how he was surrounded in this adoration love-fest having a great time and I was miserable. But you know what: you are in control of that. It may not feel like it, but you ARE.

Your WH has an AP who is also cheating on their spouse. Again. Marriage means nothing to the AP, nor does it mean anything to your WH. Not really. Not when it matters. I would argue that it is normal to be flattered when someone pays you attention. Compliments you. Praises you. It feels good to be appreciated. Wanted. Heck, I'm even willing to admit that its tempting to not engage with the person praising you to maybe get a few more ego kibbles, but when that starts to cross a line from innocent to suspect - that is the moment of truth. Your WH IS NOT a safe partner because when the ego kibbles are flowing, he follows them like my dog will follow a trail of treats - living 100% in the moment. These are NOT safe partners for you or for the OBS. They are NOT prizes, and while it is UNFAIR that you ended up with a shitty partner, you can move on from that in a safe way (either on your own OR if you WH decides ON HIS OWN to make changes). He is clearly not there, which brings me to point #2...

2) Look out for YOU. Start making yourself Plan A and get yourself to a position where you can leave if you decide you want/need to. Going to a lawyer is a good start. Having that sorted out gives you a lot of freedom to make good decisions, even if you don't use it. As Mary Schmich advised, "Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when either one might run out." Plan accordingly.

3) Not telling the OBS - a cautionary tale. I waited a year after d-day 1, until d-day 2 (where I discovered the A had gone underground for a year) to tell the OBS. Turns out the OBS also waited to tell me what he knew. A few months PRIOR to my d-day1, his wife, the AP, confessed to him that she had sex with my WH. She claimed it was a one-time deal which was a total lie as they had started a sexual relationship a month before she confessed and they were fucking at our house about 3 times a week as I was working out of town for 9 months. Had the OBS reached out to me then, I don't know if I would have come back from my position as I had the option to stay longer but didn't, only finding out about the A after my replacement had been hired and I had taken a job back at "home" with my WH. Had I reached out to the OBS on d-day 1, I would have notified him that indeed the A was not the "one time mistake" his wife had informed him of, and perhaps they would not have spent the small fortune buying their new house etc, and as the OBS worked with my WH and the AP, he would have been a lot more likely to have found out more about the A earlier, etc.

Basically, because the OBS and I failed to inform each other of what we knew, we made our own lives much harder. In hindsight, I wish I had told him immediately when I found out, and I wish he had told me immediately too.

***I didn't care about "preserving evidence" or otherwise letting the cat out of the bag about how I knew what I did. When I confronted my WH on d-day 2, I had decided I would tell the OBS, but as my WH knew the OBS, I gave him the option to do it instead of me. I basically held out my phone and said, either I am calling the OBS right now or you are - to tell him about your affair - the choice is yours. When he, like a coward, said "you do it" I did - right there, right in front of my WH. I took zero pleasure in making that call, but it was the right thing to do.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 6:39 PM, Tuesday, July 11th]

I agree with everyone. I think I am gathering evidence and focusing on not letting him go, because I have nowhere to go and am still in a bit of denial. Trying to SIC.

Today he spent time talking to me about vacation plans and Christmas plans and even plans for 2 years from now. I don't get why, except to keep me around and/or act normal.

Question - What actually scares WHs straight? Outside of divorce threats? Which in my case I don't think will scare him. Is there anything that has scared them into behaving?

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 2:56 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

Scare them into behaving? Outing their relationship. Nothing breaks the allure of an affair than exposing it in the sun.

But you’re lying low right now, though. Do you really want a marriage based on fear?

And you can absolutely bet that the cause of your breakup is majorly his affair. He’s kidding himself. Not to mention he cheated in another marriage with the same woman; course that’s not gonna bode well for his reputation

Question - What actually scares WHs straight? Outside of divorce threats? Which in my case I don't think will scare him. Is there anything that has scared them into behaving?

Gently as I can: Why would you want to scare him into behaving? I mean I don't want to scare anyone into being with me at all nevertheless being faithful to me. Why would you settle for something like that???

Again, as I pointed out - you aren't winning anything worthwhile simply because your WH is too much of a coward to face the consequences of his actions (e.g. take anything public IF he really wanted to and/or actually tell you because he can't control what you would do). What you are "winning" is a manipulative coward. YOU are (and deserve) better than that.

If you offer to attempt reconciliation immediately, you are in for an uphill battle. If he knows you have nowhere to go,it will be more difficult for you. If he knows you will not divorce him, he will put on a mask,and comply for a bit,but there will be no true change, or remorse.

Cheating husbands seem to love taking advantage of the fact that their BW is dependent on them. It gives them power,and control. If you can't leave,if he knows you won't divorce him,if you beg him to work it out, he has zero incentive to change. Zero.

You need a back up plan. Especially since he's a serial cheater. He could leave you at any time. You need to protect yourself.

Cheating husbands seem to love taking advantage of the fact that their BW is dependent on them. It gives them power,and control. If you can't leave,if he knows you won't divorce him,if you beg him to work it out, he has zero incentive to change. Zero.

This this and this!!! Please read it again and again.

I spent/wasted 15 years with a man who knew I wasn't going to divorce him. He cheated non stop, there is now an OC and this past year he resorted to being physically abusive.

Please talk to the lawyers and get your ducks in a row.

Since you haven't confronted, you can see how he is acting when you don't know..right now, he's not sorry..he's manipulating you,and lying to you,and talking to her about how you are responding to his behavior. How he needs to be careful..yes, because he doesn't want to get caught..but,also,so they can continue the affair. He's enjoying himself.

He will be oh so sorry when you confront him. But he wasn't sorry when he thought you didn't know.

I think you are doing the right thing. Getting yourself situated before letting him know you are aware of the affair.

The fact that it’s the same OW that he cheated with while married to his 1st wife is disturbing. And that would be a huge 🚩for me.

Please know when you finally let him know that you have known about his Affair, it does t have to be an argument or confrontational.

When I learned my H re-started his affair after 6 weeks of ending it, I knew I had no other choice. Very calmly I told him I was D him b/c I had no other choice. I told him I knew about his affair and I finally realized D was my only option.

I was calm & rational. Left the room. He tried to discuss. I shut that down by telling him there was nothing to discuss. I finally recognized he wanted a D and I realize the marriage is over. At this point he states he no longer wants a D but it was too late.

If you ever watched the movie Heartburn with Meryl Streep she’s married to a guy who is cheating in her. She finds out he never stopped cheating. She said nothing.

They are at a dinner party and she’s explaining how you can be married and not know your spouse is cheating. And then she gets up and smashed her key lime pie in Jack Nicholson’s face. (He’s her H). And walks out the door. It is funny but sad.

Point is she had a plan and knew she had to D him. He was never going to change. She finally realized it.

Cooley2here and Hellfire had some solid points here. Cooley thought his behavior is almost sociopathic. Like in how he acts so sweet and loving towards you at home, planning vacations and making future plans - oblivious to the fact that you obviously know he’s in the middle of an A. But the fact he’s able to turn on the charm so easily and act normal, like this Mr "Respectable Loving Husband, Pillar of the Community, all around Nice Guy" and then once he’s out the door, he becomes this other persona, where he is a totally DIFFERENT person. It’s scary. Hellfire - she’s right, he’ll act sorry when he realizes you know - on Dday when you confront. Pay attention. But right now - when he thinks you’re in the dark, that you’re none the wiser, he’s NOT sorry when he thinks you don’t know. He’s not sorry - remember this. That’s the revealing part - and the sad part - he’s able to switch between these two personas - and not feel a twinge of guilt, not feel an ounce of shame, not feel any way towards YOUR feelings, not giving two shits about the fact that he’s living this double life, lying, sneaking around - BETRAYING you, your marriage , your vows. This man who wants and needs to be respected in his community?? Find that anger Sad. He doesn’t deserve his reputation to be protected. He’s NOT protecting you…at. all.

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 1:34 PM, Wednesday, July 12th]

please never say you wish you never found out. You deserved to know and didn't deserve a lie or feel like you had the perfect marriage while he was stepping out. Plus STDs, unwanted pregnancies etc..

Have you consulted with an attorney ?

Do you have the other betrayed spouses information for exposure purposes ?

Have you collected evidence ?

If things go sideways, you need to be in control. Hell, things are sideways. Use this time to plan

Be prepared for all outcomes but be in control.

My guess is that he's cakeating but will choose you in the end. However, just because he chooses you doesn't mean you have to keep him. He's burned your marital vows to the ground. His existence in your life is now on your terms.

All such good advice, thank you to this community. This is the hardest thing I have ever gone though. Since d-day, I have decided to act normal, so that I can put an airtight plan together. Lawyers are next week. I estimate my plan will take about 1-2 months to organize. One step at a time, but trying my best not to implode and go completely mental on him. I want to scream at him 24/7 but somehow found some willpower.

While I work on my plan, I continue to process this affair because it is the only thing that is keeping me feeling like there is some hope (I know, I know) or at least I gain some understanding. The more I process what little info I have, the more I suspect that my WH and A probably did not have intentions of running away together. I think they are in this for fantasy, companionship, a thrill and sex and it has snowballed into what it is.

Due to their legacy, I think it would be a difficult situation for them. His son and daughter both had a terrible time with the divorce from his first wife, and if this came out, his ex would aggressively turn the kids against my WH, as well as many of the people he has recently regained relationships with (partially due to my stabilizing presence in his life). He would lose some friends and the respect of his family. Then again, maybe he simply does not care anymore. I just can't believe he would risk everything he has for something like this. I know I should not focus on their relationship, but I can't stop.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 2:57 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

I read somewhere that affairs often go on long term when both persons in the affair having matching needs. No one person is pushing for more or needing more.

Sounds like your husband is a cake eater and found another one. Furthermore, your cake eating husband loves cake so much, he'll destroy two marriages for it. Possibly three if her husband finds out. That is a serious character flaw / addiction / personality flaw / disorder. No matter the destruction, HE WILL NOT STOP.

Personally, I don't buy the idea that they can't be together. Two adults who were truly in love would be together, period. This isn't a romance novel. Adults fall in love and partner up.

The "excuse" or better put, the lie, is just one of many they tell each other. "Oh if only we could!" when they both know they could. Part of the fantasy of star crossed lovers kept apart by fate. Utter bullshit.

My point there is this isn't love. This is cake eating fantasy nonsense that teenagers might make up.

You need to figure out if this husband of yours, who clearly enjoys cake at all cost, is worth your heart and mind. Because I doubt he will leave you. Most cake eaters are cowards, too.

His kids will turn in him,and their mom will never have to say a word. He betrayed them, every bit as much as he betrayed their mother. He saw the pain the divorce caused them..a divorce that happened because he cheated with this OW. And, despite all of that, he's cheating with her again? The kids will probably NC him.

That's another thing. He can't claim, like most WH, that he didn't know how devastated you would be. He can't claim he didn't know how damaging an affair is. He knows. And he's doing it anyway.

I understand getting a plan together. After many years, I find myself back in this position. You must protect yourself, on all fronts. That means you can not have sex with him again. You have no idea if ow has an std. Don't risk your health.

Be very careful in thinking ow is in a bad marriage. All APs tell their AP that. Her husband is probably a really nice guy, and he simply has no idea his wife is being unfaithful.

Keep your ship steady in the water while you head for port. You are in rough waters but the end is in sight. Be as good an actor as he is. Do not let him even suspect you know. Just steady ahead while the attorney helps get your ducks in a row. Once you have what you need then go public. To be kind at some point let his first wife know. Y’all might want to meet up for a glass or two to celebrate getting the pos out of your lives…and then go public.
Steady as she goes and good luck.

Keep your ship steady in the water while you head for port. You are in rough waters but the end is in sight. Be as good an actor as he is. Do not let him even suspect you know. Just steady ahead while the attorney helps get your ducks in a row. Once you have what you need then go public. To be kind at some point let his first wife know. Y’all might want to meet up for a glass or two to celebrate getting the pos out of your lives…and then go public.
Steady as she goes and good luck.

Today he spent time talking to me about vacation plans and Christmas plans and even plans for 2 years from now. I don't get why, except to keep me around and/or act normal.

I suggest he is doing this to gauge what you know/suspect about the affair. Your reaction to making future plans could tell him if you are suspicious of him.

I'm really sorry You are going through this however it's a blessing You found out this early in your marriage.

The fact that your WH is able to conceal this so well physically and emotionally suggests he is a serial cheater who had alot of practice doing this.

He may have other OW in the wings, possibly others even while he was dating You.

The thing about a committed serial cheater is that they actually enjoy cheating it's an addiction. This is very different from an incidental cheater who falls for a coworker after close contact for years. You most likely cannot fix him.

Serial cheaters are often the most charming people you could meet.