SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I find it "interesting" 😡😡 when the cheater still tries to control everything.

I think when the betrsyed finally gets support and realizes the cheater is not doing everything they can/should, and then get called on it, it drives them crazy.

Of course SI is not helpful - it’s not helpful to the cheaters. We can smell a rat a mile away and up-end their "control".

I hope it gets better for you. With or without the marriage. I just hope you get some healing and strength for yourself.

As an US I have done a lot of IC to work through my whys and address them.

with regards to my BS I have finally been able to see her pain rather than avoid the discussions where she is sharing her pain.

BUT she tells me she has put up a wall between us AND that she will not risk connection with someone who has caused her such pain. when she gets triggered and i lean in she pulls away and tells me "she doesn't have to worry about me anymore because its not her problem"

Our pre-affair method for dealing with conflict was to avoid it. We would tell our partner that they did or said wrong in whatever topic we were in disagreement about. When it was obvious the offender would apologise (mostly me) but otherwise the complaint would land on death ears - and we avoid conversation on it and walk away and come back when we were less bothered. I dont think we worked through conflict in an engaged model at all.

given the destruction of the marriage I have avoided many conversations - but now when I lean in she wont engage. I would say she has checked out and the wall towards rebuilding emotional connection is fully up. I still chip at the wall and hope it will eventually drop BUT if her approach to dealing with PAIN is to avoid it then we cannot walk through it together.

My view is that if all I want to do is tell my wife what she is doing wrong. And all she wants to do is tell me what i am doing wrong. then its just a win-lose dynamic and thats not going to be healing. We are two years out and I absolutely want to know what my wife needs from me right now to help her heal from the trauma she experiences from my infidelity. I am sober, I have men that i am in relationship with me that have my wife's best interests in mind. Im trying to provide empathy (but as you all probably realise if an US does not understand and articulate their own feelings they cannot empathise with someone elses feelings authentically) and im probably still at the level of a toddler with that.

So to declare the ex-cheater is trying to control everything or anything just because they are asking the question on what the BS needs may be an overreaction. If the US is expected to be a mindreader in the presence of complaint but in the absence of vulnerability are you suggesting that the IC is failing the US? or is it something else? because as we all know the words of an US are words and they need to be followed by actions but if the actions require words and words are ineffective where is the pathway to get out of the "repeating cycle"

towards healing.

My experience with my fWW helped me to understand that she did not even have the language to understand how to change. It was like discussing feelings and emotions was like speaking to her in Russian or Mandarin. And she was so committed to her fixed mindset, she did not know how to dip her toes into growing as a person. While a very intelligent woman, with a scientific career, she was a not at all emotionally intelligent. It was not until she started to realize THAT was her problem, that she started to get it and grow. I could not be her teacher, she needed a good IC, then we went to Marriage Encounter, and got involved in a community of couples. They became her teachers.

When I stopped working so hard to hold up both ends of the equation, and she started to have interest in learning how to improve herself, is when things got better. In that order. I made it clear that she could not "stay stuck" and remain in the marriage. But she had to make the decision to learn. As she learned and gained fluency in the language of R, it got so much better. But she could not change until she learned how. Oh yea, and she tried the love bombing to get out of doing the work, I stood firm (most of the time).

One of the biggest things we learned was her entire mindset most of her life was that she was a victim. Nothing was ever her fault. Or everything was her fault. No middle ground. When she started facing the fact that she was not a victim, and she was responsible for her actions and how she reacted to life, she started feeling stronger and she started growing into a better spouse. But she needed the language to be able to learn another mindset on her interactions with others. Essentially how to stop allowing herself to be a victim.

Is it equal? No, but it is more balanced. I still have emotional skills that she may never gain, but the work has been done, and continues. 9 years out, the A still gets discussed, and we are able to dissect things that happened and she can re frame it in more healthy ways. It is like a muscle that gets stronger the more you flex it. The discussions are genuine between friends. But it took a lot of time to get there.

If you WS is unwilling to even learn the new language, then R cannot happen.

How you doing today, CMB?

Wounded bear,

That was a good post and I think a lot of people can benefit from what you learned. So many bs exhaust themselves trying to take the ws’s responsibilities and managing them.

A ws needs to feel that urgency sometimes, they need to know you are done until they can figure it out. It does take time but coddling someone who doesn’t even see what needs to change is really just enabling them to remain the same.

There are some ws who would love nothing better than to change and even the ones that lean into it because it’s not who they want to be will take a long time to get those muscles you are talking about. The vocabulary, the self awareness, the vision of who they aspire to be, it all comes from them.

And doing it in comfort is really not a pre requisite, in fact I would say a lot of the time this is just a version of the bs pick me dance where they don’t want to create additional waves in the relationship. Make the waves. Express the hard stuff.

Hey all, sorry I’ve been absent for a few days. The weather has finally cooperated and I’ve been working like a dog trying to close up some open jobs. We had a pretty big discussion/fight when I got home from IC last Sunday but there was some acknowledged growth in our conversations. We are learning that both of us are mis-hearing what the other is saying that causes issues because we don’t call each other out for clarification. I will continue to go to IC to build myself up as a mentally stronger person, with more internal power. Moving forward I’ll know as will she that I can pull the plug any time I want. I won’t hold it over her head as a weapon but she will know that inappropriate behavior will surely end our relationship in the future. I know she has childhood trauma issues and is blocked from progressing through them. In our big talk she said she doesn’t want me to change, but I let her know that I do want to change. I no longer want to be the nice guy pushover tht everyone can walk all over. This not only goes for our personal relationship, but for my friends and my work environment as well. It’s a general learning that I am allowed to have my opinion and it’s ok to want what I want as well. I suspect this new me will cause growing pains that she will have to adapt to but I know know my worth and I’m not going back. I’ll check in with everyone with updates. Thank you all for your support.

Thanks for the update, brother.

We all want what is best for you, we’ll be here for you whatever you choose.

I’m glad you had the conversation, but you are in exactly the same place you were a week ago, and the year before that. Meaning I know I need to be stronger, and she needs to step up her game. Success is measured in results. I hope that comes, but you still seem to be just treading water and not moving forward.

"Meaning I know I need to be stronger,"

Clarification on this thought. I am stronger. I feel WAY less codependent. I know I can be happy with someone else, but all things being equal, I would prefer to be happy with her. We enjoy so many things together which is why I’ve put up with so much. Something I’ve learned interacting on SI is that it’s difficult for any of us to fully grasp each others individual situations, and sometimes when we describe what we are feeling, we sometimes don’t interject into our sharing the positives we still experience each day. When we come here to vent, we are venting our anger, sadness, and any other negatives, but rarely do we express any of the positives we may still feel. I appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions, but as I’ve read here many times, you have to take the advice that applies to each of our situations and leave the rest. If our spouses would remain faithful and committed for the rest of our days, isn’t that truly what we all want. In a perfect world, we BS’s would get everything we want and need to heal perfectly, but we don’t live in a perfect world. I’m not reacting the way my WW would like me to react either, but it’s something she has to accept. I possess a lot of grace and compassion, something she has struggled with, but I am who I am and she is who she is. I can recognize that she has suffered much pain through this whole mess as well as I, but if we can improve our communication and be committed to each other moving forward, than that is really what I want. I have changed through all of this, through IC I have learned that I have value as an individual, I am good and decent person. I used to be a push over who would avoid difficult conversation and allow others to treat me like a lesser person. This happened in my field of work as well. I’m not that person anymore. I demand to be treated with respect when I offer the same. If anyone ever disrespects me again in the future, I’m done with that person. So yea, maybe things are the same, but they are also different now. I’m a new man who decides what I want. When I don’t want it anymore, then I’m out. It’s my choice and I have the power to choose that whenever I want. Hope this clarifies my position a bit more. Again, thank you all for you support. I love you all for it.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 1:50 PM, Saturday, April 27th]

A

I think it is because she either doesn’t want to or is incapable of changing. ]

Lots and lots of people are AFRAID OF CHANGES. They are aware of the necessity to make changes but they know they require work and require GETTING IN TOUCH WITH THEIR OWN WOUNDS.

Having an affair means in the short term to get in touch with immediate positive emotions. It is an illusion but it brings immediate joy and that state of limerence that is like a drug, that “bubble” outside time and responsibilities is very appealing, a lot more than a therapy!!

Going into therapy will bring positive effects in the long term but in the short term it is scary because you dig and bring to the surface wounds you tried to suffocate. It is no fun! You must be willing to open those wounds again and it is normal to be scared and try not to need it.

I am not justifying at all people who have an affair but I think that is the psychological mindset. It is typical of people who prefer to rugsweep rather than face problems.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 2:56 PM, Saturday, April 27th]

If our spouses would remain faithful and committed for the rest of our days, isn’t that truly what we all want.

A thought on the meaning of 'what we all want.' When we talk about 'all (of us)', I think we're talking about averages sometimes. At other times, we talk about abstract concepts. I imagine we all want 'financial security', but that means different amounts to different people.

In recovering from infidelity, what 'all of us' want may not be what individuals want. I wanted a lot more than fidelity for the rest of my life. (And I recommend D if staying gets the BS nothing more than fidelity.) Some people want nothing more to do with their WSes.

IOW, if one lets what they think 'all of us want' govern themself, they may be selling themselves out.

More specifically, Coping, my reco is to figure out what you want in detail and go for that, even if you're the only one on SI who wants that something. You can't always get what you want, but if you don't know what you want, you'll have a very tough time getting it.

Go for what YOU want, Coping.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:00 PM, Sunday, April 28th]

Something I’ve learned interacting on SI is that it’s difficult for any of us to fully grasp each others individual situations, and sometimes when we describe what we are feeling, we sometimes don’t interject into our sharing the positives we still experience each day. When we come here to vent, we are venting our anger, sadness, and any other negatives, but rarely do we express any of the positives we may still feel.

My own personal experience aligns with this 100%. I did try to inject positives at times in my journey. I think some saw it as me making excuses for my wife, but I think I was trying to bring some of the balance you seem to be wanting. Our every experience with our WS’s isn’t awful, there are glimpses and echos of the love that we remember and that we hope for in the future. So this totally makes sense to me. Would it be helpful to you to intentionally share the positive side of things with us? Might be a good exercise in focusing your mind on the positive, could also help reframe things we see on this end and shape some of the comments you get. And, honestly, it may bring out comments that suggest you are settling for the proverbial "breadcrumbs".
Whatever you believe is helpful to you in your journey, I hope you courageously pursue it. Wishing you all the best.

You are correct. Every story in many ways are the same, but nuanced in that they are also different. My comment to you was from following your story and what you have gone through. I understand that none of us here know the full story of all your interactions.

If our spouses would remain faithful and committed for the rest of our days, isn’t that truly what we all want

I think that this is setting the bar way too low. Even if there isn’t infidelity. I know I want far more in my relationships. I want a loving relationship that is anchored by mutual respect. This is where, again from your posts, she is deficient in respecting you.

To take this further, I think where infidelity has happened, the WS has to go way and above and win back the love and respect of the betrayed partner. They have committed a terrible crime against the marriage and should do anything and everything to make amends. Again, from your posts, she hasn’t done everything she could do so you feel loved and respected. She may be doing some things, but again, after infidelity some things aren’t enough.

Just my opinion, but you need to set the bar higher. At the same time she also needs to feel loved and respected. Only then will you have a flourishing marriage. I hope you get there.