SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

^^^Another red flag, she knew he was married, she went into this willingly, he's not her KISA to rescue her from her problems. His focus should be on your pain, she should not be a concern for him at all

Exactly this. This is what I meant by "quasi-regretful". That and changing his phone password are indicative of where his head is and he is either:

1. In the no mans land of indecision.

2. Playing you.

Its your path to walk. I affirm you taking care of yourself anbd consulting an attorney. All of this for your best interest.

Imo, he is still far from remorse and this makes it so very hard.

So, hes still not in "no contact", locking you out of his phone (the exact opposite of transparency) and undecided as to where his loyalties lie.

Where does that leave you?

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 4:33 AM, Saturday, August 17th]

But a friend of his died and he spiraled out of control. They didn't sleep together until the middle of June when I was away with the kids and he was in the pit of darkness.

"Pit of darkness?" Oh, please. I’ve been in pits of darkness and it didn’t give me uncontrollable urges to have sex with someone. This fellow is a champion excuse-maker.

He is absolutely in indecision land. I know that.

We are still in the early stages of this. He hasn't processed anything yet. He is overwhelmed and doesn't really know what he needs or wants.

The pit of darkness was my perception of the moment and description of it because he had sent me a message earlier that day that he was really struggling which sent me into panic mode that he was going to off himself (and which made me call his mom for backup because I was 3 hours away).

It absolutely doesn't make it right. He knows that. I know that. Regardless, it happened and now he needs to disentangle himself from the fantasy world he created with her. Or jump right in. I'm letting him figure that out. I've told him he needs to talk to someone because he isn't processing, he's throwing himself into work even more than before.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of nuances and history and conversations and experiences and things here which impact the story more than just the basics I've shared here and the chaotic wordings I've been able to pull together. I know we aren't in a place of reconciliation right now. I've accepted that.

In the meantime, I'll be thankful for the small evidences that he cares about me on some level, work on myself, and putting plans in place. I did tell him that right now I need to get strong mentally, physically, and emotionally, because if we are going to get out of this crater he created together, it's going to take work and I will need to be strong. And if we are done, I'm going to need to be strong so that I don't die.

I ordered some books from Amazon for me. They should arrive today. I have to figure out how to hide them so the kids can't find them, but hopefully I can read some.

Goals for today continue to be:
-personal affirmations
-quality time with the kids
-eat 3 meals, even if small
-workout (just basic stretches)
-call the lawyer to find out basic info - especially about cost
-get some work done on my business that I haven't touched in a week

And somewhere in there you need to deal with trauma and grief. Take good care of your health. Eat nutritionally. Get as much sleep as you can. Get outside for a few minutes every day. Find your best friend to lean on(and it isn’t him).

Like I said, its your path to walk and, yes, it is all very very fresh. I wouldnt be surprised at all if, in a month, you sound very different as the shock wears in.

This is good:

Goals for today continue to be:

-personal affirmations

-quality time with the kids

-eat 3 meals, even if small

-workout (just basic stretches)

-call the lawyer to find out basic info - especially about cost

-get some work done on my business that I haven't touched in a week

Keep up the self care. As others have said, confide in a trusted friend or family member. Dont go it alone.

As you continue to process, begin to think about what your "must haves" are both short term and long term. Ive seen other betrayeds begin bargaining with themselves as to what the minimums are for them to be "ok" with the relationship. I warn you against this vein of thought and encourage you to go the other way. Dont lower the bar, raise the bar and the lions share of effort absolutely must come from him.

Remember the old saying, "If you aim for the moon and hit the star below, you're still on higher ground."

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 5:09 PM, Saturday, August 17th]

Again....please read Betryal Bind.
And read and pray through the Psalms, start at 50 and keep going. Lord uphold you.🙏

I'm very sorry you find yourself here. I know something about the pain of being betrayed, but I haven't had to deal with an undecided spouse. I asked my W if she was cheating a few times during her A, and our MC speculated that if she had answered truthfully when I asked, she might have been unwilling to end her A. I'm grateful I was spared that, and my heart goes out to you because your H is still effed up. That's a nasty complication.

*****

You talk about 'orders'. Boundaries aren't orders. They're just statements of intent/ They set expectations. An example: 'If you continue to stay on the fence between D & R, I'll move forward with D.'

The thing is: you have to follow through with the consequence. If you lay down the boundary and he violates it, you hurt yourself if you don't impose the consequence. I don't mean 'hurt yourself' tactically. I mean you damage your self, your self-esteem, and all that goes with it.

A corollary is: if you can't set the boundary now, keep working on yourself until you can. There's no shame in needing time to set boundaries. You're in a new world that you know nothing about, and it makes sense to get familiar with the environment before committing yourself one way or another....

*****

I encourage you to think about your requirements for R. I wanted a lot more than NC. If my W hadn't agreed to meet my requirements, I believe I would have chosen D. We renegotiated the requirements as our R progressed because life changes, but we stay pretty clear about what we want and need.

My requirements included: honesty (no more lies!), IC for WS, MC (because our MC kept confronting my W; she didn't see the A as a symptom of a marriage problem), NC. I am somewhat prejudiced - I don't see how R can work unless the WS changes from cheater to good partner, and I don't see how the WS can do that without the help of a good therapist. But if the WS is afraid of therapy, I'd insist on it.

Also, I faced the desire problem head on. I asked my W if she loved me and was in love with me. If she couldn't give me 2 yeses, I think I would have D'ed. I had no desire for duty sex.

IOW, I treated myself as the prize. It looks like you're starting to realize that you're the prize. That's a good start for healing.

*****

I also gave up trying to control the outcome. My goal was healing myself. I knew I couldn't R alone, and I knew I couldn't control my W. I wanted R if we could build a better M than we had before the A (which already was at least 'good'.) But if R didn't work out, I knew I could live a good life.

IOW, 'success' isn't R or D - it's rebuilding your self-esteem and self-love and finding joy again.

It looks like that realization is coming to you, if it hasn't already arrived.

*****

There's a thread in the Divorce/Separation forum on fear vs reality of D. I recommend checking it out.

Sisoon knows stuff. So does every one on here. The wisdom from this group is to take the focus off him possibly working toward reconciliation and repairing that hole in your heart. You have no power over anything he does. Your new job is to get yourself out of infidelity by any means(other than violence). Getting a really good therapist who understands this is life altering trauma will help.
This is always something to think about. Do you want to stay in this limbo for a week, a month, a year? There are bs on here that do and you can read the agony in their posts. That is not a life. I like this quote which I might not have exactly but, do not be someone’s option, be their choice.

The changing of the password says it all I’m afraid. And it should be a no go for you. And his being concerned for her…it’s natural on some level to feel like an ass…but if he wants to stay married to you then he has to rip the bandaid off that now. If he doesn’t he needs to do the same for you. My WH actually thought on some level that he was so wonderful - such a catch - that he wished he could be two people so he could be with me and with his AP. The nerve!!!! Are you kidding me? The catch in this scenario is you my friend because you are willing to even consider giving him another chance. If he fails to see that then you are fighting a losing battle against a very flawed mindset. It can change (see my story above) but you can’t hand hold him into it. It just doesn’t work.

Again, if I could do it all again I would say I am not interested in sharing my spouse emotionally or otherwise with someone else. As the reality was and is, I’m not. Please don’t be me. I ended up doing just that - sharing my WS - for 15 more months. Sitting back waiting for him to "fall back in love with me"?!?!? When I think about it now it’s almost embarassing it was just so - ugh. Work on your self esteem and letting go of some of your well meaning empathy asap. As soon as I started doing that, and it was far overdue anyway, things changed for me and for him.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:49 PM, Monday, August 19th]

He ended it with her officially at some point in the last few days. I know he did it at some level a week ago, but it seems like it's officially kicked in now.

I know because she started angry texting him ALL NIGHT last night. He told me a some of the messages - like how she screamed at him to look her in the eyes now and "see her" because she's so drunk they are glassy-eyed and dead, how she has told everyone at work, and how she hates him and disrespects him, etc. He didn't answer her and I can see the shift in his comments about her. It's not all starry-eyed anymore. It's not even with pain at hurting her.

This morning he's talking about how he doesn't want to work there anymore. In fact, as I was typing that, he just sent me a message while on his way to another job. He is going to email the boss that he is stepping down and to find a replacement for him. He will stay on until the replacement arrives if requested to. And if he is there, he says he will just do his work and come home. I told him I agreed that was the best choice.

He seems clearer the last few days.

We have been intentionally spending non-pressured time together - sitting together watching TV. And talking. So much talking.

The main reasons for the indecision have been about the struggles with our marriage. 20 odd years of feeling like we are on different wavelengths and not happy with each other have made him question if this is even viable. That's where the indecision came from. Stepping outside the affair, I know that's a valid thing we need to work on if we want to move forward. That's where the counselling and conversations and learning to communicate needs better will have to come into play. We should have asked for help before this point.

This, I think, is going to have to be the core of our next step - figuring out if what we have had is salvageable in any way.

As we talked about the changing of his password. He said it was because me taking her number wasn't about him - it was about someone else and I had no right to do that. I explained that if he felt violated about me going on his phone, imagine the x100000000000 violation that I felt. He nodded.

As for the guilt about her, we dug into that a little bit too in one of our conversations. After some digging, it's not really about her. Because - ya, she is a broken woman and he added to her brokenness, but more that this is the shaking of every one of his core values and self-identity. He genuinely cares for people - especially hurt and struggling people, and he genuinely wanted to help her as a friend, but this fantasy was fueled around his pain and he chose to let it play out. And now, he's trying to figure out the view he had of himself and the view he has of himself now - which aren't matching up and he can't process that well.

When he started talking to me about it yesterday, after the first of her messages came in and I could see the "I'm a terrible, horrible person and I destroyed her" aura was settling in, I did remind him that she was an active and willing participant in this and that she had to know that there was going to be some kind of fall out from it. She chose to do it just as much as he did. I said that he could block her number and have her communicate work stuff through someone else. I also said that if he can't do it because of whatever reason but he wants help, I can delete the messages as they come in. I *think* some of this is getting in. I can see some shifts. Small, but subtle.

I don't know what fully happens from here. I'm just trying my best to remember to take care of me, be 100% honest and open, and be available for conversation. I'm focusing on the things I *do* have control over.

Sleep is back for the most part. I tend to sleep a lot in stress times, so I see myself being tired more again. I've been eating real food multiple times a day. All week, I did stretching "workouts"(holy man, I'm out of shape. A 10 minute stretching workout shouldn't wipe me out! ha). I have been spending time with my kids - playing video games and doing puzzles. I was able to focus long enough to get a bit of work done yesterday. I went to Sunday morning church for the first time in years and was greeted warmly by the people I knew. I've been reading some recommended books and I even got an adult colouring book for myself.

It's been one month today since their first tryst. And 11 days since he told me about it and told me broke it off.

[This message edited by LostSquid at 11:10 AM, Monday, August 19th]

LostSquid

I think one of the reasons we don’t react "correctly" to situations like you are experiencing is because we have never envisioned them. It’s like if we woke up to a screeching smoke-detector we would have some idea or plan on how to react, whereas waking up to your spouse cheating... we don’t really have a clue.
That’s why I think it might be beneficial to switch scenarios – switch crisis – to maybe better understand how we might "best" react (note I put best and correctly this way because there are very few definite in human interaction. "Best" and "correct" might be best and correct in 99% of cases, but you might just possibly be that 1% unicorn-case...)

Imagine you just came from a doctor who told you that lump just below your left knee is an infection or cancer that could possibly be cured, but most likely will lead to amputation or death. He’s quite adamant on that: IF the infection reaches a certain stage, it will poison your whole body, leading to death, but you have a certain window where you can choose to have your foot amputated at the left knee and that will give you the chance to survive.
In a way that’s where you are now. Your husbands infidelity is a growth on the marriage that can possibly be dealt with (cured), but if it reaches a certain stage it will figuratively be your emotional and relationship "death". It can lead to either you having to accept you share your husband while you wait for this affair to tide over, or it ends when he tells you that after months of dallying he’s decided his happiness lies with her. Even if the affair ends organically (and about 2/3 of relationships founded in infidelity do so within 12 months) then the underlying cause, resentment, anger, betrayal, lack of trust... poisons both of you until dealt with.

Once you are home from the doctor you start researching. You read that eating raw seaweed and rubbing crystals can heal infections so you try that. You get a second opinion, and a third. You take the pills the doctor prescribed, do chemo, dance naked in the rain in moonlight, go to the gym... whatever... you try everything and anything to heal, to save your foot.
That’s where you are now. In MC, trying to talk to him, validating his emotions...

With time you might realize some of your initial ideas don’t work... Despite drinking buckets of cleansing tea the lump is growing and you are limping more and more. You also realize that some treatments might offer you more time, but don’t really heal the issue... Despite feeling nauseous for days afterwards the chemo it does seem to slow the growth...
Same with your marriage right now... Letting him wallow in his free choice of committing to the marriage or the affair is about as effective to save your marriage as Earl Gray might be to cancer. Going to MC to discuss what in the marriage made him "have to cheat" is about as effective as the raw seaweed. Having your priorities and requirements clear and outlining them to an attorney is about as enjoyable as having the next chemo session with it’s inevitable nauseousness and headaches – yet you also knows, this gives you time and has the most realistic possibility of preventing the amputation.

At some point your doctor – in this case you yourself – has to step in and say "Squid – if we wait much longer, we seriously risk the stage where the infection spreads and amputation is no longer an option. It’s next Friday or death."

This is where you need to evaluate for yourself: 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year... what is the timeframe for when you simply realize that him moping about moody at home because he’s missing out on his "true love" or he’s "forced and tied" to this marriage, or you are uneasy because he’s working "overtime" on yet another Friday, or you worry because he put on cologne before leaving for work, or you wonder why his "work trips" always extend to Saturdays... isn’t what you want your present or your future to be?
When is YOUR Friday?

In this parable the amputation is divorce...
It is the inevitable removal of your problem because remaining in infidelity. It’s not what you want. You fear limping on one foot for days to come. You fear the impact on your career, mobility, looks... But you also realize that limping beats being emotionally dead in a loveless (or at best) single sided marriage. At 80 neither of you wants to look at each other with eyes that say "I had to settle for you, and I regret it..."

Squid – even as they roll you into the OT and even as they put you under to start... If some miracle cure is discovered, you might go for it. You have a chance for your marriage until the last moment. But IMHO the "correct" and "best" way to deal with infidelity is by recognizing the reality of it and the most likely outcome UNLESS both you and HE actively decide and commit to healing.
At the moment... his commitment to healing is about as genuine as an alcoholics commitment to sobriety that stops by at the bar on his way to AA meetings...

All this to offer you this brief outline:
Tell him you love him and really want to save the marriage. You think your past history and how you both envisioned the future deserves that effort.
HOWEVER... You refuse to share him. Not only that – you care that much for him that if he thinks his happiness lies with someone else you don’t want to hold him back. You do not want to be the person he resents later on.
AND... You don’t want to be anyone’s second option. You are worth more than to be an option.

Tell him he’s totally free to be with OW, pine for OW, work with OW, date OW... whatever he wants.
Only... not as your husband.

Then tell him that until he has clearly told you in an unequivocal way that he wants YOU (not the marriage – but YOU) then you are simply assuming he’s still in infidelity and are acting that way. You absolve him of all emotional marital obligations and are starting the work of detaching.

This will inevitably lead to the process of legally terminating the marriage. There is a process for that and it’s relatively fair. You wont be making any outrageous demand and if you both work amicably at the outcome (based on law) this should be as painless as possible.

There isn’t a rush – you aren’t filing today or tomorrow – but you are getting the relevant information and will be starting the process soon.

He does have a window of opportunity to let you know what he wants, but all you are offering is a choice of two options: A reasonable exit from the marriage for both of you OR an enforceable commitment to the marriage. He doesn’t get to make the options or decide how he will "emotionally digest his life-choices".
"Enforceable" = you are open to his agenda, his messages, the OW get’s a clear NC letter, his employers are told of the affair, stakeholders know about it, a timeline.... Basically all we know is needed for you to feel safe.
That window is only open for a relatively short time. The more he dallies the more convinced you are that his emotions to you aren’t that important to him and you are worth more than that. Plus – the further you get along the path of divorce and detachment the more content you are with your choice.

Then just go along on your daily life. Go make a sandwich. Watch your soaps. Visit with friends.
When he comes along all moody and sad saying how sorry he is and how he will "try" to remove his single point of happiness to be with you (or whatever) and when he says the issue might lie within that period when you didn’t enjoy sex or it all started when you put celery in his moms meatloaf recipe... Your standard reply is "I am sorry you feel that way. I might not agree with you but that’s a moot point. You are perfectly entitled to believe you had to go and have an affair because of [place lame excuse here] and if we were working on our marriage then maybe this would be addressed in MC. However, since you have decided to make your affair a priority over ME then it’s a moot point, and there is no gain for either of us to discuss this. Want the rest of my sandwich?" and then you move on. You don’t engage. YOU take control of the pace, the dialogue and the process. YOU get to decide YOUR Friday when you possibly, inevitably, amputate the foot.

Now – if he does agree to commit to the marriage... You might put all planning for the divorce on pause. But remain extremely cautionary for the first months simply to get assurance the affair is over.

I truly think this approach is what gives you your best shot at two things. Two things that sometimes align, but not always.
The first thing is to save your marriage. If he comes with the right attitude to the table that is definitely possible. However – if he’s only minimizing his damage or is only there to save the "marriage" (as in the business venture of joint home, joint savings, kids, pets...) it wont work. He needs to be there because he wants YOU.
The second is to save you. Yes – possibly no "treatment" might work and inevitably you wake up missing a foot from the knee. But you will survive and with time thrive. Plus – follow this strategy and if he commits... it will empower you to create a better marriage.

LostSquid...

IMHO you are making some basic mistakes...
A marriages condition can be cause by one or both partners behaviors and action. True. Your marriage could be crap because you wanted A, he wanted Z and neither of you could ever compromise. But for 20 years?
Then "solving" the issue by deciding to have an affair... It’s like if you "solved" his snoring with a shotgun round to his head. Sure – no more snoring...
The state of the marriage gives him the right to demand change. That change could even be divorce. But it doesn’t give him the right or even justify his decision to apply the infidelity-shotgun to the marriage.
Be VERY CLEAR on this – his DECISION to cheat is his decision, based on choosing something that wasn’t a realistic option. It was caused by wrong thinking and not the wrong marriage.
If you don’t grasp this LS – what happens 8 years from now when you cook his stake well-done for the second time in a row? Would that justify hitting on the pretty woman next door?

Second:
"Officially" breaking up with her...
This is a bit juvenile...
Did she have to return his ring or his friendship brace?
Soon after d-day he told you it was over, but reluctantly.
Then it was officially over some days ago.
Then it "kicked in" yesterday...

Why the gap? Why the timeframe?
At best he ended the affair yesterday.
Whatever he shared with you is at best half-truths. When he told you it was over the first time he probably told her they had to lay low for some time. I’m guessing that finally yesterday he said "Our affair is over, not on pause but OVER".

Right now, we are worried about you, but you and your husband need to address whatever keeps him from finding happiness. Do not let that be placed on you. A person is responsible for their own well-being and that includes feelings of happiness or sadness. Genetics might be a Component to his depression, but you did not do that. There are doctors out there who are experts in how to manage this. If your husband is physically capable, he needs to be outside doing something. Hiking, biking, woodworking, golf, looking at birds. Sitting in the house and being in agony is a choice. So he needs to make a better choice for his daily life. He should go to work and get his job done and then come home and go outside and let nature look at him while he looks at it. I had a college professor who said that depression is the only illness that can fix itself.

Yes it's good that the shine has started to go off his AP's glow. You need to keep showing him you're not afraid to move on without him if his heart is elsewhere.

As for marriage counseling (MC) yes, you both should have started it earlier before infidelity, but as others have said his cheating was not a proper reaction to the issues in your marriage.

So now, before working on the marriage with an MC, he now needs to work with an individual counselor who specializes in infidelity to fix what was broken in him to make the awful choices he made to cheat. MC only comes after he fixes that.

Did u talk to the lawyer. Even if just for information on D please educate yourself. And find yourself a trauma specialist to work with.

I agree with Bigger. No one innately knows how to handle themselves and rebuild after they cheated. But your H is not an idiot. He can research and learn what to do.

If it were me, I'd tell him if there is going to be recovery and rebuilding, he needs to lead the process. Tell him to research how to build something g new out of infidelity. You can't and won't do it for him. And you make no guarantees that it will work if he does.

But it's the only path and chance he has to keep you as his partner. So he either decides you are his love and life partner or your not. His actions or inaction will make that clear.

But remind him you're not waiting long for him to show you and right now all your energy will be going to healing yourself from the trauma of his infidelity.

I hope he truly realizes what is important and begins the long road back to your marriage.

This is why your WH needs IC for himself - your marriage IS NOT THE REASON HE CHEATED - he is:

He said it was because me taking her number wasn't about him - it was about someone else and I had no right to do that.

He BROUGHT HER INTO YOUR MARRIAGE. You had every right once he did that. Sorry this wayward mindset still makes me so mad. And more importantly it should show you that he needs some individual counseling. Trust me you cannot logic your way around this kind of thinking on the part of someone else - it just makes no sense.

Once he figures himself out then you can work on your marriage. Him pretending (as my WH did) that your marriage and not him is the problem here, is as Bigger so aptly described, the issue that needs to be addressed first, and your WH is the only one who can do that.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:19 PM, Monday, August 19th]

You were both in the same marriage. You didn’t cheat. Ergo…

The 180 is not necessarily about turning your back on him, it is about turning to face yourself. At this point, however, you are still trying to meet his needs. Whilst walking around with a knife in your back. I get the talking, and the need to talk, there’s a lot to understand. But he stepped off your team and onto another one. For whatever reason(sounds like there’s a huge amount of KISA complex there).

You are a team of one now. And not a free and available counsellor for him. Or mother figure.

It all sounds a bit comfy for him. His guilt getting mopped up and assuaged. He has some hard work to do. For himself. By himself. With a counsellor.

I’m encouraging you to think like a team of one, because then you might start to be able to identify YOUR needs. Your needs as separate from his. You as separate from him.

You sound very caring and compassionate. Keep going with your self care. And self compassion. You sound very level headed. And resilient.

You sound like you're holding together well considering everything you just said happened. Keeping your head on your shoulders is important. Counseling is always a good idea. I was too emotional to make good decisions when my ex cheated on me. I wish I had my emotions better in check because I wouldn't have gone through all the issues I did had I had my head straight.

KISA is a need for validation. It does not necessarily involve cheating. It means a person is ALWAYS the go to person. If you have two people whose needs line up with victim/rescuer you are going to have a relationship. Friendship, mentor, guide, but occasionally an affair. He needs to look at what drives him. Depression can be medicated. Low self esteem needs therapy. These are all on him. Being "good" made his sadness go away for a while but it always creeps back so he will be vulnerable to the next "victim".

I think this forum, and others, need to look at the damage untreated depression causes. If you look at emotions from 1 to 10 with 1 being suicidal and 10 being euphoric most of us live in the middle. A depressed person might latch onto another because the euphoria of an affair feels so good after fighting sadness all the time. Unless a person is narcissistic we are puzzled that they repeatedly cheat. Even they have difficulty explaining it. I think it is to get out of sadness for those times of phone calls, texts, making plans causes euphoria. They keep the devil(depression) at bay. The problem is nothing ever gets fixed. The bs gets hurt and possibly divorced and has no clue why any of this happened. This is when bs need to be honest with themselves. Has their ws shown any sign of trying to get help? Do they even recognize their problems? And how long is too long to wait for change.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 1:07 PM, Sunday, September 1st]

He said it was because me taking her number wasn't about him - it was about someone else and I had no right to do that.

1. He lost the right to privacy when he went behind your back and cheated. All social media accounts, email, phone should be yours to peruse when you wish. If he is truly remorseful, his number 1 job is to make you feel safe. Ergo, he need to be completely transparent. Infidelity is a trauma and he perpetrated it on you. No more potential secrets or lies should be acceptable. It is a consequence to his actions.

2. The statement above seems like he is protecting her emotional well being over yours. This is a red flag.

3. You are 50% responsible for the marriage and 0% responsible for the cheating. He made that decision all by himself. Urge and opportunity collided when he met another weak and dishonorable person. There are many other options for dealing with marital issues. He cheated because he ultimately wanted to cheat. If he cannot take full responsibility for this, he may fall into the same dysfunctional patterns and cheat again. This means counseling. He needs to find the root cause of his lack of integrity in order to become a safe partner for you and find strategies to deal with his effed up coping mechanisms without cheating. This will not be possible without therapy. Do not sweep this under the rug. It is vital that he participate in counseling. Otherwise, he does not change and you are not safe.

Checking in. Sorry that this gets long....

Life has been .... hard. Between our marriage issues and a child with a massive medical situation, it's been a long couple of months. I can't believe it's only been 2 since I found it and 3 since it happened.

I admit - we aren't *there* yet. There's been positive progress and stagnancy all at the same time.

I didn't talk to a lawyer, but I found a website for one locally that outlined the needed steps for a divorce in detail, and my bff has contacts for both a financial advisor for "women who have been fucked over by men" and also a divorce mediator, if I need them. I quit my job because it was adding an extra layer of stress in an already stressful time. Although some people questioned my choice because "what if?" - I know that if I have to find a job to support my kids separate from him, that I have an up to date resume and will be able to find something.

He has made a decision to be with me. He's said that it was an easy decision. Now that some of the fog has lifted mostly... he is being more rational. I'm not truly believing it yet. We haven't made a full commitment to a lifelong marriage at this point, and he knows that I've got the steps for leaving if I need to. His head is still ping-ponging around with wondering if our marriage is salvageable. Also, he told me that people think my calm and rational response isn't normal and she had the audacity to say that I was just playing him - that I'm waiting until he cut ties with her so that I can tear him apart and destroy him. So, I know that's in his head too, making him question things.

Our together counselling has been more just opening conversations, and we keep working on that. He has had us finding ways to connect. He hasn't pushed us in any specific direction, more asking us to consider what we each need right now and to talk about it. We have been prioritizing time with each other - something that had been rifted in our marriage, with TV and video game times whenever he is home from work, non-sexual physical touch times, etc. We have even been going out once a week for dinner alone without the kids and texting throughout his workday - no matter what job he is at. It's been really helpful to repair old wounds with each other, because we realized one massive area that we both were dealing with in our marriage was that neither of us felt prioritized. So now, we are doing that. We are trying to decide what we should do moving forward and also acknowledge that we want whatever we are doing to be sustainable if we are going to work on our marriage.

He hasn't had anyone to talk to about what happened, so he's been trying to process it alone, which I don't think is healthy or helpful. He did manage to finally talk to his sister in person, and she revealed her hubby and her had been through something similar and they talked for a long time. He said that it helped a little.

Until now, hubby has only been willing to come to a counsellor with me. When I mentioned he should talk to someone alone to work through his "fucked up brain" - the response was "I'd rather die." but.... this week, he asked me for my therapist's contact info because he thinks he needs someone unbiased to help him figure out what's going on in his head. So I'm thankful to see that step coming in and hopefully he will take the step to do it or ask me to help book it for him if he can't himself yet. With everything, I need *him* to make the decisions and steps, not me. Because me means it's not sincere for him.

The biggest immediate and overwhelming challenge is his job situation.

He had to stay at the job until the end of the season, even when he tried to quit. (This is his 2nd job.) He came clean to the boss, who apparently already knew, but the boss was desperate and said they would make accommodations to keep him there. He has shifted to 2 days a week only - one of which she is not at work for and on the other when she is there, he's not supposed to be alone around her (in fact one of her coworkers always seems to chaperone so they aren't alone together). He's had one shift where he ended up working with her alone for 2 hours and was so proud of himself when he told me about it because that they hadn't "done anything." My therapist agreed with me that was not okay, but that he was probably doing it to test and prove to himself that he was trustworthy still - kind of like an alcoholic going to a bar to prove their willpower. This is something that we are still working on. He is home one day a week now, the day that they worked together alone all the time so it was the most tempting - instead of working an insane 7 days a week. That's *our* day together now.

He deleted all their past conversations on his phone, but they do still talk work related. I haven't seen all their messages (although I do know the password now) but he tells me most of them. I've told him that the fact they are still in contact is the main thing that is not helping us move forward, and constantly hurts me, but that I *need* him to tell me about every interaction and no keeping any secrets because that hurts more than him talking about her.

Right now, I guess, we are kind of in limbo.... making the steps we can to connect, but just waiting until the season is over and I can see how committed he officially is to us. If he can't stop talking to her when the season is over when he has no reason to be in contact with her, it will be time to set some hard boundaries and take steps. Not really something I want to do, but if I have to, I will.

As he reminded me recently, 2 months ago, he'd given up on our marriage and me, so I shouldn't expect everything to be hunky-dory and back to great. And I told him that 2 months ago, the man I'd given my life to had torn out my heart, crushed it into a million pieces, and destroyed my world. So ... we know this isn't going to be a fast process or an easy one. I often cry to my friend that I hate my life now and that I just wish I could hide. But I'm here. Determined to stay standing on my feet.

Our struggle is that he has to make a decision about work for the next season very shortly. Part of the reason he took a 2nd job in the first place was that his main job is a nightmare. The contract he has there ends this year and we have to decide what is happening moving forward. I had an anxiety attack and meltdown with him around that led to me explaining that I think the 2nd job can't be on the table if our marriage is to survive, but I'm also mature enough to know that the 2nd job *is* a better job. He is happier there (even if we took the affair out of it). If there wasn't that layer, I'd been seriously encouraging him to go there full time.

It just feels like we have the following options:

#1. Stay full time at his nightmare job he hates and is angry about all the time with its shady business practices and boss who is an a$$hole.

#2. Go full time at the 2nd job he enjoys but will be a constant and unending connection with his affair partner.

#3. Stay at both jobs as he's been doing - which leaves us exactly as we are now.

#4. Look for a new job, which is almost impossible as there aren't a lot of options, is extremely high stress for all of us, and has no guarantee of being better than either of the places he's at now, nor of the pay he deserves / needs to support our family, and it might not even possible to find something within driving range.

All the options f'ing suck. Pros, cons, and nightmares for each option. We have no idea what to do.

The stress and pressure of work and the treatment and crazy expectations of the bosses at 2 jobs, trying to decide what to do about next year, our marriage strain, our son's health, trying to piece together what happened and why, the sudden and unexpected awareness of childhood trauma, his parents' expecting him to help with a move, and other life chaos .... he is on the verge of a mental health breakdown AND having physical symptoms which are scary at times. He told me that he is so stressed, he is overwhelmed by even choosing which socks to wear in the morning. I'm worried.

Can having an affair break the WS's mental health??

As for me, I've been up and down and flipped over backwards. Some days are good enough and others are garbage. Some days I just burst into tears. Some days I got for a walk and sing at the top of my lungs. I run my own business, but I'm struggling to keep it going and care about it. I've got like 50 urgent emails in my inbox that I'm just avoiding. I mostly want to quit... but that feels impossible and impractical. I've closed some sections of it that just were too big for me to handle for now.

I've been doing weekly therapy, lots of praying, mostly eating better, doing workouts, going for walks, spending time with my kids, journalling, talking to friends for support, reading, etc. I am working through some mental hangups and mindsets I've had about sex over the years, and learning about my body so that I can enjoy sex instead of just "have sex." - I'm doing that for me, not him. I'm learning to use my voice instead of just clamping my jaw when I think things. I'm trying to figure out what makes me happy from the day to day - like what hobbies or activities I would like to do as I haven't really thought about myself in so long. Being a busy mom kind of beat that out of me.

I'm proud that, for the most part, I don't think of her. I'm more focused on the feelings I'm dealing with and our relationship. A few times she's popped into my head, I've been able to shove her out. She doesn't get to live in my head and impact my marriage from my perspective.

I also haven't fully decided what *I* would need in a marriage moving forward - changes that we would need to make if we rebuild this thing. I know some of his needs, but I want to make sure that I have clarity for myself too instead of just being compliant and doing whatever he needs. A marriage is two people and we both deserve to have our needs met.

Anyway.... that's where I'm at. It's a mess. But we are taking wobbly little steps forward on a slippery mud hill. But at least we are holding hands right now as we tackle it.

Thanks for listening to my long winded message. Although some of the blunt honesty and word here can be hard to take - I do appreciate it and value your wisdom, experience, and care. <3

[This message edited by LostSquid at 8:26 PM, Saturday, October 19th]