SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That's normal. You're in shock.

Personally, the shenanigans she pulled on getting the lease would make me question everything about her, and whether she could ever be trusted again. Got a lease without your consultation, and then you were forced to borrow a lot of money because she could not get a business loan, and you are on the hook for that debt. In my opinion, a trustworthy person would never do that.

Plus, you say that the profits generated from that studio lease she spends on herself... botox, etc. Has she ever offered to help you pay any on that debt?

I am not you and you are not me. Personally, I doubt I could ever fully trust anything she does or anything she ever says. However, I am not the one she pulled this stunt on... you are the one she betrayed and deceived, so you have to live with whatever decisions you make.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

I don't know what that means but I do know we all react differently and tears don't have to be on the menu. I may not understand what you mean by you feel betrayed but it doesn't hurt. Is it just that it's a logic only response?

I am no expert on polygrpahs but it sounds like you could polygraph on just the one question about sex with this guy during those three days. That would give you an answer. The example the one examiner gave you about the woman doesn't sound like a relevant example. She failed one, inconclusive on another and passed the third. That sounds like she was practicing and finally got it right... I'd be skeptical too, lol.

I think your wife's story could be factually accurate. It's certainly possible. However, I think she is either deluding herself on her inner intent or not being honest with you. The facts as she presents them look bad because they are bad. You don't go to all that effort to firmly place yourself on a very, very slippery slope without thinking you might slide down it. Some piece of her had more than a passing interest in the possibility that after a few drinks they just might go back to her room.

That fantasy in her mind can co-exist with the idea that "but I won't do that". "I won't do it but it's exciting to think it might happen". "I am going to wear a sexy dress and make up for drinks with him but it isn't because I'm planning on seducing him" "I'm excited to see him but it isn't sexual" All of that was probably happening in her mind. At a minimum it's all indicative of people with poor boundaries. It's often also indicative of fantasizing and craving attention. And sometimes it is someone deliberately planning an affair.

If it wasn't a planned affair as she claims she has to own up that she was putting herself in a place to cheat on you and some part of herself was finding that idea exciting. There are just too many facts to deny that some part of that dynamic was happening. If she owns that, it will help her become safe moving forward if you choose to R.

Rover,

The reason most are trying to get you to take farther steps to get the truth is because of her actions immediately after confrontation.

The things she said to you like we were never compatible and it was just a matter of time. There were many things she said that made it seem like she didn't really want to work on the marriage.

But then her lawyer informed her she wouldn't be getting alimony she suddenly wants to work on the marriage?!

It's just hard not to wonder that she could still be manipulative lying to you and probably to herself about her feelings toward You.

The question I'd be asking myself if I were you is would she still be wanting to work on the marriage if divorce would be in her favor financially?

Rover-

Agreed with the above poster that what is repeated many times here is a guide to help protect you, from further pain, and to guide you to a resolution on infidelity. Understanding that you are still early days on this, you should take a look around at all those people providing input on your thread. People have been on here for years, bc this shit sandwich has that lifelong affect on you. Even after you heal, it will have a major affect on how you behave and see people going forward. SO what people are trying to help you see is that we've made mistakes, and the guidance is hopefully to help you not make the same mistakes we've been through, or seen others make.

You have not talked about IC. If you have not seen one, its time for you to line one up. YOu should start by discovering why maybe you haven't shed a tear? Why are you kind of over this already and its only been 1-2 months. Maybe it might be helpful to get IC help to see if R/D is the right path. You're getting advice on this forum on how to behave after DDay, but you also need help to bring out your own emotions and feelings about what has all gone down. Whether you R or D, I think IC is a must, so you might as well start on that journey. Maybe by doing some IC work, you will get better clarity on what you truly want when you can talked it out with a professional.

Rambler

I am former LEO and have experience with poly’s. Not as an operator, but I have probably witnessed 5-6 examinations and used data from several dozens. Although never used as part of evidence provided to court, a poly could be invaluable in narrowing down a list of suspects. Both by the willingness of people to participate, but also by their reluctance… A sure-quick way to drop down a list of suspects is by taking a poly. A sure-quick way to rise to the top is to refuse to take one. That’s often even worse than failing one.
That’s why I know it’s not like the movies, and that’s why I have consistently told you that a poly wont get you the truth, but it will strongly tell you if your wife is honest or not. Truth and honesty often go hand-in-hand, but not necessarily.

The example you list isn’t really a realistic example. But then… I have also told you the poly needs to serve a purpose, and that you need to strongly enforce to your wife that a failure would terminate reconciliation. I would never suggest you give your wife 2-3 shots at a poly, allow her to change operators or to reword questions or whatever. One thing experienced operators monitor is behavior, and a good operator would recognize if someone has changed behavior significantly between examinations. When something serious is on the line it’s extremely hard for a normal person to fake a pass.

Those three questions I suggested are all factual. They all have a yes or no answer. Before the test then this is one question you ask her – Have you had sex with anyone other than me since we married? The operator spends time defining terms like "sex", so your wife couldn’t pass if she considers oral not sex. If she tells you that she has been faithful since the marriage, and that she hasn’t had sex with OM she should pass. She’s being honest.

If she passes the question on being in the same area/room as OM, again honest.
If she passes on the content question, again honest.

If she fails on any… well… the key isn’t to get the truth but to get honesty.

But then. If you don’t believe in poly’s then skip it. If you aren’t going to use them correctly – to get honesty – then skip it.
But you also chose to skip quite a number of other alternatives we have suggested, ranging from asking for CCTV footage (I don’t think realistic…) to getting the hotel bill, to forsenic recovery of texts…
This is one of those threads where my tag-line fits so well into:
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

I hope things work out for you. Personally I fear this thread will turn into one of these we tend to have 1-2 a year; 50 pages of limited progress and unhappiness. I pray I am wrong, but wish you well on your journey.

^^^^^

Agree with everything Bigger said above. Plus, the other posters. Good luck.

What does it say about me that I haven't shed a single tear over this? Not a fucking drop. And a week or so after d-day, I really don't feel pain anymore? Disappointment, betrayal, anger, yes. But it really doesn't hurt.

Maybe this means this is a dealbreaker for you. That could be the reason that you will not R without protecting yourself with a postnup. Maybe you just don't want to reconcile. I get it. For some folks there is no wiggle room on this issue. However, you are very early on in this process to make big decisions like R or D. Often the caution around here is don't drive (make big decisions) when you are drunk (early on in the process). Give yourself time to decide, like 4-6 months. But in the meantime, decide to get out of infidelity and let the R or D choice be a fork in that road later on. You will still be getting out of infidelity. Good luck to you.

It sounds to me that you and your WW were both ambivalent about your M prior to her A, and now you’re super ambivalent about it. Perhaps, the cheating is simply the straw that broke the camels back for you.

And I agree with what was just posted about what your WW said snd did in the aftermath of D day. What you saw was the true her then. What you’re seeing now is self preservation, monetary concerns, being a single mother, how she will be perceived by family and friends in the wake of D snd disclosure about her A. Tread carefully before deciding to R, if that was the way you were leaning.

RoverGuy

Pardon me for jumping in here. Much respect to the posters who have wisely guided you to this point.

It seems to me your wife has come a long way from her protective, defensive, stubborn position originally.

Those attitudes are probably what you expected knowing her as long as you have.

You will often see on these boards that many will say (and I agree) that a wayward partner must have Consequences.

To what end?

So they re-evaluate the foundation of their choices. To awaken them to the true nature of their destructive actions.

I would posit this is what you are seeing in your WW.

It is a mixture of personal awakening and self interest?

That is very normal.

Self-interest is 50% of the stuff relationships are made of. There is nothing wrong with self-interest. It's what is related to the other persons 50%.

How someone prioritizes the other persons related 50% is what love is all about.

Selfishness is different than self-interest.

Dont fault her for having self-interest, for wanting to maintain the comfort and support of her marriage and family.

Right now because she selfishly, and foolishly put her own needs above her husband's and her family's well-being she needs to prioritize their needs.

She is doing that but not perfectly. Her remorsefulness is being clarified in her understanding.

Truth is that this continues to happen in reconciliation. To the point that often the betrayed partner begins to worry about the others emotional well-being as they work through it.

It happens in steps. Absolutely.

------------------------

I want to address one more thing.

The lingering question in your mind, if she had the intention of hooking up with him.

I think you have your answer.

Many affairs happen in small steps. Little boundary crossings that bring you that much closer to the next.

The wayward will say we started texting and it "got out of hand".

And then they meet for coffie, and then again for drinks, and get a room from there. Then they say, "it just happened". Lol.

This also happens in steps.

A wayward may say when they first started texting, "I had no intention of sleeping with him, and believe it."

Because that may not be the next step in her path to limerence.

Your wife wanted to meet in person to see if there was a "spark".

THAT WAS THE NEXT STEP.

Do you know what the next step after this often is. Probably many on this board could say, because it's so often a part of the script.

It's confession of feelings for each other.

After that it's Wham! Bam! Thank You Ma'am.

Men and women are wired to meet and mate fairly quickly.

Your wife was on the path to limerence. Absolutely, but you already know that.

Did she go there to hookup with him. Probably not.

It was the "in person meeting" that was her next need. The "spark test!"

Ask her, "How would your relationship with him change if there was a spark, what would come next,how would that change your texting?"

It's a step down the path of escalating involvement.

This is not uncommon. Sometimes a meetup, then often before PIV there is a makeout session.

She was on the path.She is serious when she says she would not cross that line. How well does she know herself, how honest can she be with herself?

Would that insistence of resistance have melted in the presence of growing desire? Almost assuredly.

Most women don't want to be played, used, or taken advantage of. They instinctively move safely in steps.

I do think there is a disconnect here, where they are not being honest with themselves, perhaps lacking some self-awareness.

If she hasn't admitted to herself what she was opening herself up to she cannot be frank about it with you.

She has admitted the path.That is the important thing.

She can hardly stand to look at herself that way. That's why she says she is a horrible person.

She knows the path, she hates it now. Hopefully some IC can help her clarify to herself her own motives.

Personally I don't see that as a reason not to reconcile. We live in a mans brain, it's different in their thinking.

Divorce and reconciliation have this in common, once started they can be stopped up to certain point anyway.

It's a bit early for reconciliation, but there is nothing I see as a reason to rule it out. Other than you choose to.

It's your life. It's your call.

Hey I really do wish you well.

Take care!

[This message edited by Decorum at 6:52 AM, Sunday, December 4th]

A very good post above by Decorum.

You are nearing the end stage of discovery, and this is often a time when a person gets stuck. Almost like a "Where do I go from here?" type of mindset. The emotions still ebb and flow, and that feeling of indifference is really more like a 'nothing is important anymore' type of sensation.

You'll get yourself unstuck. One way or another, you will start moving again in a direction, that hopefully, is the one that you prefer. Unfortunately, these are the MANY effects of infidelity.

Your WW was already cheating at least emotionally for a long time, she then planned and had 3 days by herself and had previously agreed to meet in person to see if there was still a "spark", according to her OM bailed, but even If we are to believe her, what if he hadn't bailed and there was a spark ? well the most logical answer to that is that she would have taken things further, otherwise why even meet with him, that she was going to take a propane tank (her EA and drinks) to meet with OM and his "spark" and then of course: BOOM!. So far to this day she still trying to minimize her huge betrayal and refuses to even admit to the obvious, claiming "she has boundaries", boundaries ? really !! she was already in an EA, what boundaries ? !!.

OTOH you are refusing to do a poly or dig any further against the collective advice from SI, If I was in your shoes, to make a life altering decision I would use all the tools at my disposal including the poly, no they are not infallible but research points to about 85% accuracy, I would take that any day against a proven cheater and liar, but if you are OK with the very real possibility that she was/is still lying, not only about her intentions before and during the 3 days but afterwards had OM not bailed (if that's true) and had that "spark", If you think you can eventually make peace with that, well that's your decision, it's your life and your call.

Hey Rover, how are you doing?

Hey Rover, how are you doing?

I'm actually ok.

Still on the emotional rollercoaster, but getting better every day.

WW and I have done a shit ton of talking. Pretty much every night for hours. I still haven't decided on what to do, though. She is being open and honest during the discussions which is refreshing, and all the talking is helping her remember things. And she is constantly apologizing and saying what a horrible person she is, and how she will never forgive herself for the pain she caused me and the family. She is asking for another chance to prove she will change and prove she can win back my trust.

That's really all that's going on right now. Not too exciting.

Hi Rover Guy,

You might have already mentioned this, but has she read or is she now reading "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair", by Linda MacDonald. She can get this as a PDF file off the internet. The book is short and can be read in just a few hours. She should read it several times in the next few months and years.

Good luck.

RG

I’m glad things are improving in the communication area. I’m happy that she says "she will do anything".

Now here’s where I may be different from other posters so this is just my opinion and what worked for me.

Just some backstory. It was a midlife crisis affair and my H of 25 years was planning to D me. Prior to that he had a 4 year EA that he refused to admit to and when it ended, it was finally swept under the rug.

His midlife crisis affair was complete with being in limbo, false reconciliation, etc etc etc.

So it’s Dday 2 and I informed him I had no choice but to D him. Now he’s begging to R but I am refusing. There is no point (in my opinion) as I don’t love him, he’s lied, cheated, been nasty, blamed me for everything etc.

Okay at this point I am mentally worn out. It’s the holiday season and I’m just trying to get through. Finally to shut him up I told him I would give him a chance to R. But I was not lifting a finger and he was on his own.

The first 30 days he did take some very positive steps (again without me coaching him). I waited to see when he would start to backtrack. He never did.

Yes there would be days where it would falter. But he’d pick back up and move forward the next day. Was it easy? No. But he was committed to R. And he was going to prove he could change and stop being the jerk he was during his affair.

So many cheaters swear to wanting to R and "will do anything". But when it comes to "doing anything" — they don’t. They give up easily. They start to whine "this is too hard". They start to protest that "they can’t live like this and the betrayed will never trust me".

You can certainly tell your wife what you require to R. Or not. It’s your call. But 🚩🚩will appear soon enough if she’s really not that invested. And if she tries to "hurry R along" to get back to her former lifestyle, please know that’s not a good sign.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:36 PM, Wednesday, December 7th]

has she read or is she now reading "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair", by Linda MacDonald

Yes. I purchased the book and she has read it several times.

I’m glad things are improving in the communication area. I’m happy that she says "she will do anything".

One thing I forgot to mention. She had given me full access to her phone. Although the texts to dickhead have been deleted, the texts to her family and friends are still there, including after d-day.

Literally from d-day she has told them this is all her fault and not mine. If anyone (her mother) says anything negative about me or the marriage, she was quick to tell them this was all on her and she fucked up. Even when she was being a total bitch to me at the beginning she was taking responsibility and defending me.

Glad she's reading. Im also glad she's owning it to her family as well. Thats more than some do and its a start.
The1stwife nailed it perfectly with her post. Your wife has a lot do, hopefully for your sake, if you decide to R, she really will do anything and everything she needs to and that you require of her.

Great to hear. A new problem is your MIL bashing you. Your WW is doing the right thing by defending you. However, the simple fact that your MIL is blaming you for the condition of the M as justification for her daughter’s A is extremely problematic. The fact that she feels comfortable bashing you at all to your WW, whatever the reason, is highly problematic.

This must be dealt with.