SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Many bs are lulled into a false sense of security, because their WS put a few trackers on their phone.

It's nice that he did it..but it doesn't mean he won't find a way around it.

Ws leave their phones behind,and while it appears they're at work, they're with their AP.

Or they simply buy a burner phone(all dollar stores have them),and use that phone to continue their activities.

Also..be very careful in believing he's in a shame spiral. He might be. But,often, especially in the beginning, that shame is because they were caught,and now people know. The shame isn't over what they did. After all, they weren't ashamed until they were caught. Many were fine,and having a great time. The shame over their activities tends to come along later, as the devastation lingers,and seeps into every aspect of his life.

Is he going to get drug counseling as well? He may say he's not an addict. But he certainly fell right back into using his previous drug of choice, when the opportunity arose.

The trackers are nice. Just keep your eyes open.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:58 PM, Thursday, January 18th]

The drug counseling he agreed to as well. We just have finances to think about so I’m debating. We have four kids and one has special needs and we can’t afford for this to break us. Which is why I opted for the tests right now.

One step at a time I suppose.

And yes I agree with keeping my eyes open. Thank you for pointing that out.

Gaah. So sorry to hear about the scope of his porn habits. It's probable $$ was spent on porn. Years of porn abuse $$ can add up to a shocking sum. For example, did he interact (ahem) online with gals one-on-one or during "performances" where multiple viewers make requests? $$$!

Interesting that social media (SM) was implicated as a culprit exacerbating his behaviors. Porn abuse and fidelity boundary busting via SM often travel hand in hand. He mentioned "degrading men." Yeah, some guys are GROSS (sending favorite links, swapping prostitute reviews, sharing rude commentary on all kinds of dodgey media), so that has to stop if he's serious about turning around his disrespectful/objectifying habits. Porn buddies are NOT friends of the marriage so those friendships should end. A deep dive into all his social media seems prudent = does he follow/comment sketchy, scantily clad gals on Insta, FaceBook, TikTok or other SM? Heck no! None of that. AND If his definition of social media includes sites like Only Fans, etc. you can BET money was spent. My H didn't engage in porn or financial infidelities, but his SM activities were a source of concern in our M. He voluntarily (his idea) got rid of ALL social media post D-day and hasn't been back on since. Banning SM from his life certainly helped me to feel calmer, and follow through on his no SM ban was crucial to rebuilding trust.

Groot, getting all PI on his porn, SM use and overall $$ patterns may fall way down on the list of priorities during this s***storm, but don't neglect looking at the big picture. In particular, understanding his financial behaviors must be part of your due diligence. There's a family to support!

When looking at his financials please dig deep with a skeptical eye. Porn providers are well versed on how to help clients hide $$ trails.Porn charges can appear innocuous on credit statements with legit looking taglines. Porn money can hide behind legit looking purchases as well. For example, Only Fans gals and their ilk may keep a running list of Amazon items viewers can gift them, or receive grocery or other gift cards from their "special" friends! Look for any unusually large, semi-regular cash withdrawals (drugs)? Suggest running a credit check on him alone and any joint credit information to be sure there's no hidden creditcards or other debt.

Hang in there! The goal is to NOT play marriage cop forever. This is the discovery phase where you're excavating his hidden sexual basement. A necessary process so you can assess what you're dealing with - whether or not R is feasible.Playing marriage cop can mess with your physical and mental health. Eventually, whether the result is D or R, gotta let go of that hyper vigilance or you'll make yourself sick. So, don't neglect what YOU need right now. Take care of yourself with radical self-care! Get outside, exercise, meditate, go to the movies, get together with friends, do things that feed you. Don't let his needs muscle out your needs.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 8:12 PM, Friday, January 19th]

ETA 1/19:

I am by no means saying that there isn’t more to be found. I’m sure there is. The trickle truth is killing me

I don’t know how to know when I have the full truth. In my gut some things still don’t make sense.

Thinking about your situation this morning. While remembering my H's post D-day trickle truth, minimizations and lying. Yes, if your gut tells you something is off, then it probably is. One of the most valuable lessons I learned from the betrayal was to trust my gut. Even if it was telling me to not believe my life partner - to not trust the guy who promised to be true and always have my back.

It was clear he was not the man I thought he was. His post D-day behavior seemed so out of character, so shocking. If he could lie and betray about an A, just maybe ANYTHING WAS POSSIBLE. Does he have a personality disorder? Maybe he could be stealing from the family, using hookers and scary porn, or have other secret lives. And his post D-day lies were so patently absurd, even insulting to my intelligence. If he felt compelled to lie and minimize about the silliest A details, what the heck other BIG things could he be lying about? So, my gut told me to delve into EVERYTHING just to be sure there weren't other secret lives: his SM (I hacked into all of it), tore the house apart looking for paper trails, reviewed checking account credit card and credit reporting records, phone, email (hacked that), and yes even sleuthed about whether or not porn and hookers could be another sexual basement hidden from me.

Another motivator for all that sleuthing was I had to be sure reconciliation was worth my time and effort. I was DONE with the trickle truth, lies and minimizations. If I was going to even consider reconciliation with this stranger, I had to do so with EVERYTHING above board, with my eyes wide open.

Guess what I'm trying to say is don't let digging through the details of the A distract from delving into the whole shebang. It's clear there's more he's hiding because your gut is telling you there is! He's not the man you thought he was. The scope of his porn use was new information, right? Feel like suggesting you dig into all this crap is adding to your already daunting to-do list. You're struggling with so much right now! In your case, digging into all of it feels warranted. I will say, it's good he's voluntarily sharing some information without having to dig. But liars lie. Liars are motivated to hide info and cover their tracks. Protect yourself and your family! So don't be hesitant to sleuth or demand access to more info if it will help put an end to the trickle truth and minimizations. Or if digging will help discern if reconciliation is feasible with the man in front of you right now.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 9:00 PM, Friday, January 19th]

Thank you for the advice.

He did admit that he spent money on hotel rooms several times and we are diving into the bank statements soon.

Im just so overwhelmed.

And honestly im not even worried about more details about this affair. I think I got most of what I need and the little details are not important. His story as shitty as it is makes sense with the two other things he revealed. With that being said I do know more will come out over time. I’ll think of other questions or he will tell me eventually.

Like you, I need to know who I married and what else I may not have known. I feel like I’m having an identity crisis because I feel like i married someone and I had no idea who he was. Now I’m questioning everything about him and this marriage. He has agreed to let me have access to anything I need, he is not defensive with any of my demands or questions and says he understands why I need to dig. I just don’t know how much more I can take right now.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 9:33 PM, Friday, January 19th]

I know exactly how you feel right now, Groot, surfing that enormous tsunami of grief and disbelief.

20 out of the 22 years of my marriage were a huge lie and the joke was on me. DDay was horrific. The porn was horrific. The many OWs? Horrific. He travelled the world working for bands and it was just a great big smorgasbord for him, while the trusting gullible wifey stayed home and managed all the tedious details of running a household.

Big man baby.

Huge porn addiction.

Many years of substance abuse (weed, alcohol, coke) until he finally got sober. Except for the porn and some hideously ugly ows. That escalated, and after DDay I dug and dug and dug for all the info I could get. I put spyware on his laptop and saw every keystroke of what he did after I kicked him out. I couldn't let go of the obsession for years.

I feel so awful for you sweetie. I navigated that alone without four littles on board. My mom passed away in the midst of it and my siblings abandoned me. It was 16 years ago but every time I read about another tragedy here it brings it all back.

I've learned to just let it go now, it doesn't matter in my new life.

Your situation is HUGELY traumatic, and you have to strap in because the ride is likely to get bumpier with the poly. If you can get a scrip for a light dose of Ativan to help you through, that would be very helpful. I wish I had done that sooner. Also download a free pdf of a book called Journey From Abandonment to Healing. It will guide you.

You'll survive this. Your marriage may not. That's up to him.

Big hugs. I see you.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 6:52 PM, Saturday, January 20th]

Another way they can hide cash withdrawals is to go to a grocery store or Walmart, buy something, and get cash back. So easy, and it just shows up on the bank statement like a larger purchase.

My husband was a musician in a band back in the day. He had women on the side, drugs, etc. We also had a separation, and he returned to the marriage. Immediately on his return he cheated - I knew of the one woman at the time. He just confessed to another, who just happens to be the sister of his most recent EA (the EA who used to be his bandmate). At the time, drugs were flowing freely.

He hasn’t used drugs in decades. At least we got past that aspect.

The porn use for my fWH has been off and on throughout the marriage, but ramped up during his affairs. There seems to be a link 🔗 for him. He told me that his sexting with the EA partner was kind of like another porn channel to him in a way, and that it all sort of blended together.

(Since the most recent affair, he has quit porn altogether. He said it "disgusts" him now. Even the thought of it makes him sick he says. This is a new thing.)

I went back through bank statements, phone bills, texts, his computers, his phone, emails, everything I could find. I called the other woman. I don’t know if it was a good idea, but it was the right thing for me. I have information on one other woman from 45 years ago, but it seems ridiculous for me to contact her now (what difference does it make at this point for tiny details, really).

But if you’re like me, I just needed to know things.

Groot1918

Perhaps the absolute worst situations to be in is the situation where you have no options.

I sense that you feel you are in that situation. A situation where you feel you have to be with THIS man because you have four kids, one with special needs, these finances and all that.

Problem with not having an escape is that if your husband realizes that, then he has really got no incentive to change.

Now… I want to be very clear on this: I am NOT suggesting you divorce.

But I do strongly suggest you really look into what your options really are, because once you realize you do have them, then it empowers your ability to progress to the next level. Even if that level is with your husband.

To use a comparison: Imagine you are stranded on a small island five miles from the nearest coast. On that island you have 10 coconuts. Five miles is swimmable, but undeniably hard and risky. Plus you don’t know the currents, the ebb and flow and feel that remaining on the island is a safer option. You realize that by eating two coconuts per day you can be there for five days. During that period you can hope to signal a passing ship. On the fifth or sixth day you need to decide… Remain on the island in the hope of help before you starve, or start swimming…
Maybe – while waiting – you realized you can make a flotation device from the husks and the coconuts. Maybe you could use the coconut-tree to create a raft. You have used your limited days while you still have energy to device an option – a plan if you aren’t rescued within those five days.

I’m suggesting something comparable for your present. Maybe you would be financially better off with him paying child-support that is garnished off his wages before he spends the cash on hotel-rooms and porn-sites. Maybe you would be better off being able to focus on personal development and healing, rather than trying to decide how accountable you are for his actions. Maybe your kids would be better off in an environment where supporting an industry that objectifies and belittles people is considered OK. Maybe you would be better off not having to fear a relapse – if your husband is a SA.

I think that when you can tell your husband that the ONLY reason you are still married to him is because YOU have decided to give it a shot is a powerful moment for BOTH of you.
That can be when he realizes he’s accountable for his actions, and only his actions will maintain your willingness for fight on.

Groot1988,

Sorry you are going through this. I'm a lurker and I'm not sure if this will help but my husband and I went through a similarly shocking situation.

My husband had a 6 year affair, porn addiction, cocaine addiction, an alcoholic, smoked weed, usurped considerable joint and our business funds, and lied a lot. His secret double life escalated and all this was part of his depravity: A spiraling world decked out with addictions, women, and drugs.
I quit trying to break down his individual problems, that is his problem, and it was easier for me to think of it as construct he could hide in.

Its been 8 years since dday and he's worked to change.
We're not perfect but we are still trying. Unfortunately it takes time and more time to heal. Take care of your kids and build good memories for them.

( If it's important, most likely the ap paid for the drugs)

Best of luck,

notOverIt

Notoverit

Thank you so much for the insight.

We went through his financials and she did pay for the drugs. She was already doing them when they started talking, he just decided to have piss poor impulse control and join in.

Since this has happened he has willingly taken at home drug tests with no issues. He came home , opened them himself and did it and was proud to show me that I could breathe on him not being a drug addict. I have more tests here which he will do randomly. I really don’t think drugs are a problem with him. He just made bad decisions.

We are in MC (we are four sessions in) and it has been all about the affair so far, we haven’t moved to past it and our counselor is very good at mediating things between us and has gotten my H in touch with an addiction counselor so he could work through his porn addictions. Let me say I have known porn has been an issue with him , I just didn’t know he relied on it so heavily and now that it escalated I can see that it got pretty bad.

I’m not in a place to reconcile or if I want to. He is doing everything he possibly can to make things "right" moving forward.

Joint bank account

New job

Drug test

Group counseling

IC

Porn blocker

Life360

Shared passwords/ open book etc.

I just don’t know if I’ll be able to forgive him for throwing us away.

He tells me that he will continue to work on himself even if I leave and knows that this 2-5 year emotional train wreck can’t be

sped up and he’s in it for the long haul. He has a lot to figure out about himself and how he could have ever gotten here. In the mean time I’m going to see a trauma therapist and focus on my children and learn to be strong without him if that is what my heart decides.

I’m going to let this play out and really see how much work he is willing to put into it.

I spend a lot of time on myself and the kids and he helps clean , stay up with them so I can sleep or just go to the gym. He hasn’t seen his friends in months and hasn’t asked, I am thankful that he is taking this seriously with my needs and my mental health because if he wasn’t I would have already kicked his ass to the curb. I have a brand new tattoo and one scheduled for next month, I go to the gym 3-5 times a week and I just started making dinners again this week which I’m really proud of myself for. (For the first three months I couldn’t cook because I was literally laying in bed crying).

I am slowly learning to stop comparing myself to the AP because it wasn’t about her, or me , it is about something lacking and wrong in my H. I truly believe she could have been anyone, I have my suspicions based off of his porn use and what I’ve learned about the affair but I’m sure he will learn more through IC. I’m trying to ask less emotional questions and more factual questions.

As far as other people have asked as far as if I stay with him because it’s easier or more financially beneficial , I do not. I am the breadwinner and I always have been, I could support my children just fine if he left and I for sure would get him for child support. I stay right now because I’m slowly seeing changes and a willingness and desire to change on his own, if he stops or withdraws there is no doubt I will not stay. He is aware. Even if he does change I may never look at him the same way again , guess only time will tell if this can be saved and it’s not on me , it’s on him.
He decided our marriage was over the day he chose to sleep with her, he can decide if changing into a selfless , safe husband and doing the hard work to begin building a stronger marriage from the rubble is worth it.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 9:52 PM, Wednesday, January 24th]

How you holding up, Groot?

Hi!

I don’t think I was prepared for this much of a rollercoaster. Husbands first session of Ic is next week as well as mine. I’ve seen some major steps emotionally and physically from him and honestly I can’t ask for much more except for a lobotomy. (Not kidding). I feel like even though I know the affair had nothing to do with me and everything to do with his issues I can’t enjoy the good moments. We had dinner a few weeks ago, my goal was to just get through a 45 minute dinner with no affair talk. I made it to the car and cried with him for 30 minutes before I could drive home. I know , I know I’m still in the early stages and we have a lot of work to do but I can’t seem to find peace. He has a new job, he’s empathetic, comes and is just so sorry and has taken every step he should and I just still hate him. He tells me it’s ok to hate him and feel this way that he won’t ever stop going to counseling or bettering himself even if I choose D. We talk about the affair probably 8 hours a day because I can’t drop it. He answers all the insane questions I have over and over over without getting even a bit upset but I want to bang my head off the wall. He has admitted what caused it , is working towards finding more of his “why” with his counselor. Even our counselor is impressed with him and his steps but I really feel like I’ll be stuck here forever. The endless cycles of crying, anger, shock is shit. That’s just me being ruthlessly honest, I want him to pay for what he did to me and lose everything he loves because I’m at the an eye for an eye stage and I don’t know how to break free. I am a manager at my current job and always have been a bit of a control freak so letting go and letting him do his work is hard for me. He wants to fix his own issues and is asking me for a chance for him to do so but I want to control and diagnose him myself. I’m in a pretty bad place. I need to let go and trust that it will work out the way it should and over time I’ll see but I’m not patient and I feel I’m ruining everything before we are even trying.

I am focusing on me though. Lots of gym time , dinners with friends and whatever else I choose. I’m being pretty selfish… all while hammering him all day with questions and verbal abuse that he takes all day even while working his new job (I’m not proud).

Thanks for checking in, going looney toons over here.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 3:30 AM, Saturday, February 3rd]

Nothing you've described, except your H's A, is anything close to 'looney'. Everything you describe that's going on in you is so common that it's normal.

I mean everything - the constant questioning, the hate, the roller coaster, crying, anger (and fear and grief and shame) - all of that is normal.

It's the first stage of recovery. It will go on longer than you want it to, but you will get grounded again. Have some faith in yourself. You really can heal.

I appreciate that sisoon. I really do.

It just sucks because this could very well be a dealbreaker for me and I know only time will tell.
He could be the most perfect husband for the rest of his life , not sure it would matter. The damage has been done, trying to take it one day at a time but I suck at that.

Sorry Groot, infidelity is the worst pain. What you're going through is normal for this awful situation. Take care of yourself and give yourself grace. I wish there was a magic wand that could whisk you through the healing, but unfortunately nothing like that exists.

He wants to fix his own issues and is asking me for a chance for him to do so but I want to control and diagnose him myself.

This is very insightful. There is a danger when asking BS to own their own shit that it can be seen as victim blaming. But of course, only the WS is responsible for affair behaviour. Nevertheless, D day is an invitation for both partners to make an inventory of their own stuff. I see you’re still very focused on your WS. Understandably. He has left you feeling very unsafe and uncertain. Yet, I’d encourage you to try (I know you are already) harder to focus on you - not just the getting yourself higher up your priority list - but to lean into the learning about yourself this offers. Somebody that is a control freak (sic) getting together with a man trying to avoid growing up? How has that dynamic played out over the years? What might you be trying to avoid by being a control freak (sic)? What does lack of control look like to you? If we don’t overly pathologise him, the pain your WS was trying to block out with porn and drugs is, as you say, his responsibility to uncover, process and recover. What might yours be? I can see you have only just figured out the A had nothing to do with you or your marriage so it might be too early in your healing to begin too much self excavation yet it’s a necessary part of healing, as long as it’s approached with huge self compassion. Tbh, it sounds like you’re doing just great. Keep celebrating those milestones of recovery, they will accelerate and you do reach a point where the A does not consume you, becoming frankly bored of its grasp on you and purposely looking beyond for more opportunities for self growth - post traumatic growth that can be very profound and life changing. It’s a journey you sound quite resilient enough to undertake. Certainly you sound like you have the emotional intelligence to make it less bumpy. Hold on tight, it’s quite a ride!

There’s a rule of thumb in alcoholism treatment that says "90 meetings in 90 days." Without that commitment to becoming a sober and better man means he’s looking for an easy way out.

There are N.A. Meetings in many places around the world as well as a plethora of reading material, online meetings and even telephone conversations with people who been where he is and are willing to talk to him. N.A. Is free so he has no excuses. ZERO excuses. He found time to be unfaithful and do drugs, he can find time to invest in his recovery and the welfare of his precious family.

That said, you monitoring him with testing is keeping you in the loop of his problem, trying to help him fix it. There are thousands of people around the the world who will tell you that that will never work out in the long run.

Looking into Nar-Anon might be beneficial to you, whether he follows through or not. It will help you "stay in your lane" as they say. Which is better for you but especially beneficial to your children.

Wishing you brighter days ahead

Edie

I think you touched on something very important here.
You are right, there are many things that I am seeing I need to work on as a person, in NO WAY do I blame myself for his affair, he could have came to me and talked to me and had better boundaries, although of course it doesn't help me much emotionally.
I have been a control freak for a long time and over the course of the last four months I haven't been, mostly because I don't have the energy or strength to because I am so heartbroken I didn't get out of bed for weeks. I noticed that I liked myself better... if that makes sense? I was vulnerable, I let people take care of me, it was a very very soft side that I am glad I have but really pissy that it showed because of this mess. I have been really working on being a more patient, understanding mom and person in general because I never have been but it is HARD. I like that you pointed this out because regardless what happens in my marriage, I don't want to be that person again, looking back I didn't like me very much.

Keep celebrating those milestones of recovery, they will accelerate and you do reach a point where the A does not consume you, becoming frankly bored of its grasp on you and purposely looking beyond for more opportunities for self growth - post traumatic growth that can be very profound and life changing.

Thank you so much for that and I will try but the affair still has a complete hold on me. My anger is through the roof and I sure am keeping my H in the dumps even though he has been doing everything right, he starts therapy tomorrow. I don't know how to let go of the fact that he got to go have fun and I am still here , I know there are many posts about it on this site, but I don't think it is fair. I kept my vows, I wasn't unfaithful, he was. He DESERVES four child support payments and he deserves to be alone. Then when I think about it I feel horrible for being so mean, its a horrendous cycle of hell. I just want a few minutes of peace. I know that I need to recover before i can ever reconcile , if that is what i choose to do but it is so hard, i thought so highly of our marriage, it is like the ground crumbled under my feet. I will keep on keeping on with recovering and working on myself. I start therapy next week and I am hoping to do EMDR because my ptsd has been very bad and it isn't letting up. I appreaciate the thoughts on this, thank you as always.

I kept my vows, I wasn't unfaithful, he was. He DESERVES four child support payments and he deserves to be alone.

I agree that WSes don't deserve their BSes and that they deserve to be alone. But that meant, for me, that I'd have to be alone, too, at least for a while. That would be painful for me, and I already had enough pain to deal with.

In the end, I wanted to be with my W if she met my requirements for R. My own joy was way more important to me than punishing my W. So I chose R.

Others find that joy is more accessible after dumping the WS.

Figuring out what you want is a key task for you now. It's not easy, so give yourself time and permission to choose both D & R. Have faith in yourself to make a good decision.

Then when I think about it I feel horrible for being so mean, its a horrendous cycle of hell.

How is it mean to acknowledge that your WS doesn't deserve you? that your WS deserves to be alone? Those are just statements of fact, IMO.

I found myself wishing for my W to be punished when I was angry at her. Changing the punishment thoughts to feeling the anger was a tremendous help to my recovery. My reco is to feel your anger and let it flow through your body. If you can't do it, a good IC can help.

The next time you sense yourself telling your WS they don't deserve you, change what you say to something like, 'I'm furious at you!' A lot of ICs/therapists have anecdotal evidence that the 2nd is much more healing than the first.

Sisoon
I feel horrible because I’m mean. I cosntantly tell him he’s gross and he’s trash and that he deserves to lose all of us. Almost all day long.
He is doing well with his portion of helping me recover , MC, IC, NC, quit his job right away, he never gets mad at me or yells at me , occasionally I will push him too far and he cries but man I’m mad. I’m trying to find better ways to express my anger but I really just want to watch him hurt.