SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I saw a thread in general and it made me think:

WS what is your opinion on forums or threads that are pro-adultery? That give tips and other toxic advice for people engaging in affairs?

I haven't said this before, but when I showed up here I was freaked out by the 2 by 4s. The affair just ended and I was desperate and in a lot of pain. For a short time I went to another site and wrote to others who were having affairs. The site I joined was closed off, you have to have an account to post there and they moderate it heavily.

Misery loves company. People who are having affairs are all pretty miserable, even the ones who are in the throws of it. I enjoyed the non-judgement because it gave me temporary relief of my shame and allowed me to keep justifying myself.

A while ago, when I found out about my husbands affair, I logged back into that site to read what they were all saying. And, admittedly I had wondered if his AP was there. I read for just a short time and felt so angry that I broke my monitor off my laptop.

What do I think about them? I think they are another tool people use to deal with their cogintive dissonance. They know what they are doing is wrong, so they want others to make them feel better about that.

I saw a thread in general and it made me think:

WS what is your opinion on forums or threads that are pro-adultery? That give tips and other toxic advice for people engaging in affairs?

I agree with hikingout. Mostly a place of cognitive dissonance and a lot of broken hearts.

I spent some time in one on a fairly well-known site. Met many other shattered people who really just wanted to talk to someone. It was a fellow member there who helped me pull my head out of my ass and finally end my LTEA (not an endorsement of those forums; just telling my story).

There were also plenty who had not one shred of guilt over what they were doing. They would trash their BSs and APs equally and brag about how good they had it.

[This message edited by HologramHusband at 1:18 PM, March 11th (Thursday)]

I don’t have an opinion on other infidelity sites, either pro- or against-. There’s too much random garbage on the internet to pay attention to it all (or even to most). People who choose cheating as a way of life are out there. I choose not to read about it.

For those WS in reconciliation - what is harder to watch your BS deal with - the shock/awe/anger/sorrow after a DDay or the POLF?

WS,

Did you have any idea how much you were hurting your spouse while you were having your affair ?

Did you have any idea how much pain your spouse was in after Dday? What did you do about it?

For those WS in reconciliation - what is harder to watch your BS deal with - the shock/awe/anger/sorrow after a DDay or the POLF?

Oh goodness, that's a hard question Chaos.

In hindsight, I could say at least in those beginning reactions, I knew that the high emotions were because he loved me and I disappointed him so much.

POLF is scary because it's so flat you think it's over. (And, honestly it kind of was, this was accompanied by him asking me for a divorce)

But, also I will say that acquired knowledge and skills can make a difference. In the beginning, those early days I still wanted to make everything about me and how I felt. I was more remorseful and understood a lot more by the time he got to POLF.

All of it was bad.

Betrayal trauma generates non-stop questions. I have so many questions that I want to understand. On the other hand, I don’t want to dwell in those horrible thoughts.

However, this question is important to me: I read that most affairs happen not because AP is special, but because how WS feels during an A.

I do not understand this.

When I am in a legitimate reationship (both of us are single and available) I am with that person because I feel good around him. How is it different than what WS feels around AP?

Hi Merti,

This is an excellent question.

You are right about the questions. Very normal. At some point it may be helpful for your WS to write down the answers too. It may help for reinforcement, help you remember what was said so that you can build on that. Not to stop you from asking questions but allowing you to ask other ones for clarity. It's kind of like when I am overwhelmed I make a list so I don't have to carry the mental load of what's on that list.

As for how it's different.

So, when you are single, your options are pretty much wide open. Yes, there are limitations, we can't all date Brad Pitt. But, ideally your are emotionally open, you have selected someone based on their traits that appeal to you. You also aren't getting the base of your needs met by someone else.

When you are married, you are getting a lot of your needs met. Even if the relationship isn't great but might be "fair" relationships the base needs are often there. In an affair, your options are not limitless. There are far less people interested in starting up a relationship with a married person. So what happens is often there is an opportunity, the person is convenient to them in some way.

If you look at who most people pick to have an affair with, often it's a headscratcher to others. Often the person is really many steps down from the spouse. And even if not, what I am saying still applies.

So, the WS mind is pretty damned avoidant. They do not take responsibility for their own happiness. Instead, they tend to look at something that is missing in their relationship and exaggerate it in their mind. Instead of addressing the situation with their spouse they often think they don't have control over it. They start telling themselves that you are just not compatible in that way. Over time, I think it drowns out appreciation in a relationship and the BS gets taken for granted. As a result things worsen.

Now note that I am not blaming the relationship or the BS. This is the WS's mindset making what is often a smaller problem into these exaggerated things. The WS not managing their own happiness, boundaries, communication with their spouse, etc. But, the result when taking anyone for granted can be the relationship will often worsen or break down further.

Affairs tend to be escapism. Because most people know deeply that having an affair is wrong, cognitive dissonance over what they are doing comes in. So, to combat that, the WS has a lot of justifications and mental gymnastics to do in order to do what they want. Often, I think they are subconsciously looking to feel that need they exaggerated in their head (more sex, more emotional connection, more this or that)

Also, affairs are covert. VERY risky. As a result, participating in them create highs. I don't know if it's adrenaline, or just plan old endorphins. When this kicks in then the need to justify gets bigger, and some of the excuses the WS is giving themselves are ridiculous but not examined. At this point, they are basically a crack head looking for their next high.

Now, back to the fact the AP is usually an opportunity/convenience based person. Generally, not always the WS doesn't even know them well. It makes it so much easier for them to project the things they want to see on this person. Putting lipstick on a pig essentially.

The entire time I was having my affair, I think the AP was really just an audience for my own self adulation. I used him to feel special, to feel better about myself. I wasn't really aware of it because most people, like you said, really only have the high experience when you meet someone and have a new relationship with them. I didn't analyze any of what was happening until hindsight. Noone would really believe I had an affair with the AP I don't think. What happens in most circumstances is the AP is not an appropriate choice for one reason or another.

This isn't every affair, but it describes mine. I have been on this site for almost 4 years and I will say it describes probably 90-95% of the ones that I read about.

So, you have basically a WS who is living in a distorted fantasy world living off their highs like teenagers. But they are not having a meaningful or budding relationship. They are using each other for whatever need they have now exaggerated.

You add in both people are emotionally unavailable, that probably at least one of them is just trying to "win" against the OBS to prove to themselves they are just the bees knees, it's too sick and twisted to be like a regular dating situation.

The WS in turn needs to learn this about themselves and understand the ways they failed themselves, their spouse, their relationship. Ironically, a lot of the ways they have often failed is their own communication, their own self awareness, their integrity, etc. It's an epic fail that can not even be compared to whatever arbitrary things they are holding against the BS.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:35 AM, March 19th (Friday)]

Thank you hikingout, this was a great explanation and helped me very much.

When you are married, you are getting a lot of your needs met.

This is very true. It sounds right that WS chooses someone who is okay with involving with a married person and someone convenient, as you said, there will only be limited number of people for this.

Often the person is really many steps down from the spouse. And even if not, what I am saying still applies.

I have a good job and I am told to be very smart, but AP is a doctor. It makes it hard for me to think that she is many steps down from me. I would be happier if she was a total loser. Perhaps I am looking at it from the wrong angle.

WS mind is pretty damned avoidant. They do not take responsibility for their own happiness. Instead, they tend to look at something that is missing in their relationship and exaggerate it in their mind

This is also so true, and it is exactly what I experienced with my WS. I was a good spouse, kind, loving, caring, supportive. He was the same way with me until A, or I thought so. But after I found out, he told me that he was unhappy for a while and he had to convince himself that he deserved an A. I had no idea that he was unhappy, I never saw or felt anything related to it, and he never told me anything about it. To this day, he is not exactly sure what he was so unhappy about.

Thank you hikingout🙏🏻

[This message edited by Merti at 11:17 AM, March 22nd (Monday)]

Hello - my question - sorry if it’s been asked already.

I am a BW and my WH left me for one day in August last year, came back to me the next day, motivated by guilt. We had a fake reconciliation period of about a month although he made it pretty clear to me early on that he didn’t want to stay.

Before he confessed I believed he was a good man who thought the world of me but afterwards he was so cruel and I can’t understand it.

He is an alcoholic but prior to his confession had been sober for 9 years. We’ve been together over 25 years. One of the things he said was that getting sober had woken him up to his true feelings ie that his feelings for me were not real? Even if this is true why would he say it? What could motivate him to be so cruel? My whole world had been shattered and he has to stick the knife in further? He was sober when he said this but had relapsed and had a small drink a few days earlier, if that’s relevant.

He did show concern for the AP, who apparently was ‘in bits’.

[This message edited by HatsandBats at 7:40 AM, March 22nd (Monday)]

Hi Chaos.

For those WS in reconciliation - what is harder to watch your BS deal with - the shock/awe/anger/sorrow after a DDay or the POLF?

I agree with HO that all of it was bad. But they were different. After DDay, the shock and anger were more like watching him experience a major trauma. It was horrible and it was also mushed together with the total upheaval of our lives. Very raw emotions and lots of pain. Basically life was somehow putting one foot in front of the other and trying to figure out how to fix the unfixable.

When POLF hit, it was different. There weren't the outbursts and the pain was not so in my face, but the sadness permeated. So you have this ghost of an M, where things look okay from the outside, but inside our four walls there's sadness and bitterness and just going through the motions. And yet, working at R somehow.

And that's the strange part. Working on R through all of this. None of it is good. It's a nightmare for the BS and for the WS as well because they caused it.

This may have been asked before and I checked the abbreviation list, but what is POLF?

Plane of Leathal Flatness. Shorthand for the phase, often long, many betrayeds experience after 5he shock of discovery wears off--a long period of flatness of affect, lack of interest or commitment, inability to be vulnerable, inability to take joy in anything including things outside the relationship. Clinically, a prolonged and acute situational depression.

TheLostOne,

POLF is the Plain of Lethal Flatness. It should be added to the abbreviations in the healing library, but one of the articles there describes it:

The Plain of Lethal Flatness - by BlindJustice

It CAN be lethal, but it can also be a big help in your recovery. It all depends on how you approach it."

Why do they keep coming back?

After 2 years since DDay3 - she tried to come back and we had to send a Cease and Desist letter through an attorney.

LTAP still with her husband - been silent for 2 years - and tried to come back. I blew that shit up with OBS. Sent him the fake FB profile with fake name that was trying to friend request my WH on FB.

In a word: power.

For the cheater, the A is not about the AP. However, from time to time, we run across an AP whose sense of self is heavily enmeshed with "winning." It makes them feel sexy, dominant, irresistible -- all the things they secretly fear they aren't. After all, a genuinely successful, attractive person could have almost any available partner without having to sneak around. An AP has to go after low hanging fruit -- someone who, like them, is susceptible to flattery and can't distinguish glitter from gold.

Your WH's AP feared her market value wouldn't measure up if she got an honorable divorce and tried dating single men. Someone else's husband was a more viable target, because top quality single women wouldn't go after a married guy, which means far less competition. The only "competitor" (you) wouldn't even know the contest was happening. He'd be flattered because her attention would make him feel like he still had game. Of course, her ego wouldn't let her admit this was her strategy. Instead of recognizing that she was shooting fish in a barrel, she convinced herself that she was taking on a steep challenge. She told herself she was so amazing that she was able to compromise a solid marriage because the man simply could not resist her.

Well, now he's doing a fine job of resisting, and the deeper it sinks in that she was disposable, the more freaked out she gets. It's not that she has to have him. It's that she needs to prove to herself that he secretly still wants her. Unfortunately, he fed this crazy conviction of hers by going underground after D-Day 1. She'll never believe a word he says about regretting the A or wanting to be with you. She thinks you're a puppeteer pulling his strings. But still, in her mind, that's plenty bad enough. It means you're winning. She's supposed to be the one pulling his strings.

I think she'll be back periodically until she finds someone else to use as a crutch for her ego. It could take a while. I'm humiliated to admit that after the A ended, I fed off ego kibbles in the knowledge that OM was pining after me. We went NC decades ago, but if I felt low or worthless, I'd self-soothe with the idea that I was still The One That Got Away. I'm sorry she's as pathetic as I was and that she can't find enough human decency to accept defeat and leave you both alone.

In a previous post

So you have this ghost of an M, where things look okay from the outside, but inside our four walls there's sadness and bitterness

As a WS did you hold any bitterness toward your BS?

If you did, was it in regards to pre A issues, the fact that your A had come to an end or that they would not just get over it?

I didn't. My feelings are obviously different now that he is a WS, but my feelings are with R that I have to work my way out of these new resentments and hurts as well.

I have watched many a WS take their journey on this site, and I can tell you the only ones I can think of that held bitterness were women who were emotionally abused/had a toxic spouse. Typically this cycle continued after dday, but for some period of time those women all took it and wanted to R. I tend to think that if the WS gets healthy and the BS doesn't, then there is resentments, and vice versa. R only works if both people heal.

If your spouse resents you for not letting it go, they are not remorseful and they do not understand the gravity of what they did to you.

This question may have been asked before — but what is it with WS being so mean and rude to their BS when they are having an affair? I have compared the dates of contact with OW and all the times there was an outburst for trivial things (I have started a log 2 years ago with dates there was an outburst and the seeming trigger — again, now it makes sense that it wasn’t the way I cooked a meal, or my outfit etc). Is it the fact that WS perhaps felt bad about it, and tried to cause a fight to justify his actions? Is it a simple annoyance that he could have been with someone else and not his old ball and chain?

Here is a term to look up (I had to when I got here) - Cognitive dissonance.

We know what we are doing is wrong, but we have build (sometimes false) resentments to justify and feel entitled to our behavior.