SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. 😢

Don’t waste your time wishing this other woman would go away. If she did, he’d just replace her with someone else.

There’s no nice way to say this, so I’ll be blunt. You are married to a self absorbed, hypocritical man child. A creep who wants a high profile social position with all its ego-boosting perks, a position that he’s using you to prop up, while lacking the moral fiber to actually treat you like an equal partner. Meanwhile, he’s also getting ego thrills from an illicit secret life; a fantasy bubble with nothing of real substance.

Keep being a bad ass. Keep getting your ducks in a row, and leave this man. Publicly out him once you’ve secured your own way out. You’ll be doing the world a favor. We don’t need "leaders" who look good and give flowery speeches on the outside, but are selfish cowards to the core.

He has been my everything, I gave up my entire life to move to be with him and I know that when I leave, I will be out in the cold and have to rebuild my life, which scares the hell out of me. Starting over scares me. I am mid 50s.

You WILL be okay - aside from mid 50s (substitute late 40s) I could have written the above - moved far away to a new place with no friends, changed jobs, no where discernable to go when I left him - all of it. My wH had a workplace A for 2+ years, and he worked with the AP and the OBS (and WH knew the OBS and was good friends with him prior to the AP starting to work with them). My WH talked to her when in the same house with me - sexted with her while at work in the same room with OBS and AP (sometimes while also texting me) - did all kinds of things that are similar to what you are saying - all the I love yous to her, all the ignoring of me, not comforting me, complaining about me (I worked for 46 hours out of 60 on his daughter's bedroom - finishing drywall, taping, texturing, painting, putting up trim - because she was coming to visit and he hadn't finished it and he had the nerve to bitch to AP that I hadn't finished the trim in another room - I could NOT "win"), etc, etc, etc. He thought he wanted magic fantasy land - they were in love - I was terrible - etc. When I said I was going to leave him he seemed not to care, but he wasn't going to do anything to actually leave me had I not forced the issue.

Guess what? I did leave, but he is not with AP and never did run off with her (so much for the undying love), and now 5 years later he really still wants to work things out with me. It's not about you. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS. It's not about AP either. It's about fantasy land!!!!!!!!

You could have substituted her for anyone willing and able to make his life more exciting. I recall one time after d-day during a very heated argument telling WH (1) I am not a fucking cruise director, (2) my job is not to make his life more fun every waking minute, AND (3) LIFE ISN'T A FUCKING CRUISE so quit trying to find someone to entertain you 24/7. Right now your WH thinks he's going on a cruise but he's really hoping that both you and the AP continue to act as co-cruise directors. Otherwise, he would have left by now. My WH is now readily able to admit this..that living this compartmentalized life really was affecting his mental health badly but he didn't really want to make a decision about leaving me or running off with her.

I tell you all of this as I hope you will see that this really isn't about his undying love for AP. It's not. It's lust and excitement - limerance - and while I'm not saying that there hasn't been a WS that left for an AP and lives happily ever after, what I am saying is that your WH isn't in any kind of real love right now. You are trying to play a comparison game that is impossible to "win" - so really let that go (easier said than done but I promise later on you will wonder how you ever thought that). You WILL BE OKAY!

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:21 PM, Monday, July 24th]

The biggest ego boost is when both the wife and OW are fighting over the cheater.

Boy does that really inflate the cheater’s ego

And sadly I played into it for a few months.

And then I wised up and stopped playing his game.

Another post stated "the OW isn’t special, b/c she’s easily replaced with another person who would be willing to have an affair". So true!!!

Your words are all so helpful, so thank you. The lawyer rescheduled, but I called a second one just to have more convos. I oscillate between being sad and wanting to take everything I can in the divorce. It just pains me to know that as soon as he leaves our house he calls her. Last night I fell asleep for 5 minutes and he was right back texting with her, as soon as I closed my eyes. He barely communicates with me, whereas he used to text me all day. He instructed her that texting during the day is easier (because I am not around). They are acting like they are the victim, like they are so stressed and life is unfair to them because they are being surveilled.

What are they getting out of this? Sex? True love? Fantasy? Planning a life together? I would probably know if I saw his texts. Probably all of the above. I think he is too afraid to ask for a D, but he is now trying to be a very lame partner to me so that I eventually get fed up and leave. Starving me of intimacy. I think you are all correct, he just does not want to be 'the bad guy'. He wants our separation to happen naturally.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 3:14 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

Hi, sad, you've only been married four years, correct?

Do you co-own a home or other assets?

Three and a half years of marriage. Other assets have been kept separate, but we do co-own a small condo. Some assets combined, not much.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 3:15 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

He barely communicates with me, whereas he used to text me all day.

Same happened to me - see my post earlier today.

Last week I saw that he instructed her that texting during the day is easier (because I am not around). They are acting like they are the victim, like they are so stressed and life is unfair to them because they are being surveilled.

See below - victim mentality. Also likely some lies mixed in.

I almost put the VAR in the car today, but I am just too sad to hear any more discussions about me.

I don't think you need this - you already have all the information you need.

Waiting to hear back from a trauma specialist as well.

Great idea. Hopefully this will help you feel better and get out of the mindset that this is really about you (it's not).

What are they getting out of this? Sex? True love? Fantasy? Planning a life together?

Affirmation of their status as victims. Excitement - thrill of the chase. There is a great post from years ago about how an affair recreates this "new relationship" feelings and causes them to last a long time because the A does not progress. It's all newness AND no extended time together. Adrenaline - check. I mean how often did you get excited to talk to your WH like you did when you first met after living together for years and sharing a life as opposed to having to wait weeks to see each other - having limited time to talk? That's what keeps it new feeling - it never progresses when it is clandestine.

I would probably know if I saw his texts. Probably all of the above.

You would learn of excuses and martyrdom and a bunch of lies. The one thing I learned from reading countless texts and listening to calls between my WH and AP were that they lied to each other as much as they lied to me/the OBS.

I think he is too afraid to ask for a D, but he is now trying to be a very lame partner to me so that I eventually get fed up and leave.

Maybe. My WH said after the fact that is how he actually felt - until I did leave and the A was totally blown up and the AP started acting like an unhinged lunatic. They turned on each other after 2+ years of daily I love you and everything else. But he also said that some days he wanted me to leave and others he did not. Why I didn't sooner is the real question as anyone who behaves like that is NO prize anyway.

The other morning I reached for him and he kind of jumped away from me and he noticed I was pissed and said something. Starving me of intimacy.

Same thing happened to me. I wouldn't read too much into it aside from the fact that you are getting in his way from doing what he wants all the time.

I think you are all correct, he just does not want to be 'the bad guy' who made his wife move for him and then dumped her. He wants our separation to happen naturally.

No one here KNOWS what your WH wants aside from the fact that he wants to keep doing what he is doing.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:51 PM, Monday, July 24th]

Thisissolonley, you seem to have had the exact same experience I am having. I don't know how you did it. Its like living in hell. I finally talked to the lawyer, which did not make me feel much better. It feels like a step back. I am struggling a bit. Anyway, I decided today to (try and) stop caring (at least for now). Trying 180. I did not text him once all day. He's actually been nicer. In my mind I am already single, I just have a disgusting roommate whom I hate. If I can just treat this like a roommate situation for the next few weeks, I will survive. I have no idea where I am going to live, as I can't afford anything which is an issue. I am stuck fora bit. The lawyer told me to not do anything rash, that I need to trust my own emotions.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 3:16 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

So the other night I tried to initiate intimacy (as a test) with no intention to actually follow through and he turned me down. He has never turned me down. He said he was ‘not used to me being the initiator.’ Which is true btw. He pushed me away a little. But just more intel on where his loyalty lies. I am heartbroken.

So chalk that up to a learning experience. This is why we say NC = no new hurts. The less you interact the better. Now I know you are in a limbo state, but the 180 can help you get that distance and detachment.

Sorry you had to learn that but now you know. :-(

Hi SiC,

I haven't commented on your thread because I hadn't any advice for you, you seem to be doing everything right.
But I want to encourage you and admit that I admire you.
You are seeking to get "out of Infidelity".
My heart breaks that the dropkick turned you down. He doesn't deserve you.

I appreciate from your postings that you face challenges as you seek a way forward, but we are here to encourage and support you during a very difficult time.
We understand.
Kind regards,
FAWH

Gently, I had a feeling the attorney wasn't going to give you much because of the length of your marriage.

I encourage you to find a new place to live like yesterday. If you cannot afford a place of your own, look into a roommate situation or move closer to family/friends who can help support you until you are stable and on solid footing.

Your health is surely suffering living in that situation, he has shown you who he is, believe him and get out asap. Staying is pure torture.

You mentioned a condo the two of you own. Is it possible for you to live there temporarily?

[This message edited by annb at 12:20 PM, Wednesday, July 26th]

Thank you AnnaB. I am not well, that is for sure. The lawyer was pretty much useless, all I would get was a little appreciation on the house and some minimal capital gains. Infidelity will have no bearing unless he fears me going public. I can start looking for a rental, the condo is not an option. I have another lawyer call today.

You are right, being in the same house as him is creating this insane dynamic. If I move out that is it - we'll be over.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 3:16 PM, Sunday, November 12th]

Beware those "talks about us" and especially that physical intimacy. It's the opposite of emotional detachment, and you're going to need a certain level of detachment to proceed.

Do you have an IC for clarity and support?

If I can just treat this like a roommate situation for the next few weeks, I will survive. I have no idea where I am going to live, as I can't afford anything which is an issue. I am stuck fora bit. The lawyer told me to not do anything rash, that I need to trust my own emotions.

In house separation is hard. I did it for several years and don't recommend doing it for longer than you have to. But, the lawyer was right - do not do anything rash now.

In fact, what you should be doing is making yourself Plan A. What I mean by that is to start planning for your future without your WH IN CASE you decide to leave. The biggest mistake I made was not planning to leave sooner, which in my case was largely related to financial issues. Because I stayed at our home, stewing in misery while the A was ongoing, alternating between being sad and angry, and occasionally playing the pick me game, I wasted time that I could have been putting myself in a better position to leave if I wanted to. I did this, subconsciously I think, because I felt like if I started planning to leave that I had "given up" or that my WH and the AP had somehow "won" and I had "lost." This was a HUGE mistake of mine.

You can (and should) always have a plan in case you end up on your own, even IF you are not stuck in this infidelity nightmare. My Dad always told me to be sure I could take care of myself, and he was right. I think because I was so focused on my WH and all of his lies (much like you are now) I forgot about ME. There is NOTHING stopping you from assessing your situation and making an exit plan, be it saving money, looking for a better job/new job, researching the cost of living without your WH, etc. Don't be me. I waited to really plan in earnest until I had finally decided I had enough and needed to get away from my WH as it was "clear" he had no intention of changing.

My WH's A went underground after d-day 1 - for a year - so I had a year of false R until I caught him again, then he stopped for like 3 months and went back a third time, and I caught him again 2 months later. It was between d-day 2 and d-day 3 that I decided I needed to leave him. So from the start of the A in 5/2017 and d-day 1 in 10/17, through a month before d-day 3, which was around 3/2019, I had done nothing to put myself in a position to leave if I wanted to. By the time I officially caught him again in 4/19 I just wanted to get away from him - I had enough, but financially I couldn't just up and leave. Moreover, I had actually done stupid things in 2018, relying on his claims he was not involved in the A anymore, and had paid down some bills instead of putting that money aside so I could move. So, when I decided to leave, only then did I start making a plan - regarding where I would move, and how much it would cost, and how long it would take me to save what I needed. It took me almost a year to do it, leaving me in an "in house separation" situation for all that time. I then got caught in COVID lockdown just when I planned to leave, so I was stuck for even longer.

I am not telling you that you have to leave him. I am not telling you that you cannot be sad, upset, depressed, angry, half-crazy, etc about your situation. I am telling you that making a plan and starting to put it into action WILL make you feel better, especially down the road. You cannot control your WS. I have no idea if you left your WH, if he would react like mine and finally realize he is really messed up inside, decide to figure out why and fix his shit, do a lot of work on himself in IC and on his own, and decide to try to put in the work to get you to come back (and to be a better person generally), or if your WS would let you walk away and never look back. There is no magic formula that can give a WS that light bulb moment that they are the problem and they are also the solution and then actually do something about it. There is no formula for making someone else change.

What I am telling you is that the best thing you can do for yourself is to spend some of your energy on YOU. Work on giving yourself options. The lawyer did give you helpful information - information essential for you to start planning. Lawyers are not that non-existent magic pill I referenced above. Heck, I am a lawyer, and I knew my situation without needing to talk with one, and I still wasted over a year of my life not preparing for a potential life without my WH and instead hoping that my situation would resolve, that my WH would go back to being the pre-A person I thought he was, and that we would continue on together. In other words, I lived on hopium alone for way too long.

It's okay to hope, my friend, that things work out. It's normal even. But don't be me and let hopium undermine you. You can do both: hope for the best and prepare for the "worst." However, if your situation mirrors mine going forward, you may find that what you thought was the worst is actually a lot better than what you had before.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 4:55 PM, Wednesday, July 26th]

You are right. I need to make a plan and fast. I have a job, I can support myself in a few months and I think if I blocked this out of my mind I could start over. Ketamine maybe. I was very single for a long time and I was fine with it. He just finally gave me a sense of community and family. But if it is lies, it can’t be real. I would rather find a situation where i was alone but not spending my days tracking him. Or with a nicer person. This feels like insanity. It has made me very tired and erodes my self confidence. I never had this issue before him. Not once.

Did your husband come home every night? This is what I don’t get. Why don’t these guys just divorce us first? He would rather be with her, so just go.

That would make sense, but nothing about infidelity makes sense. You can't apply logic to an illogical situation.

Hi sad,

My ex had a five year affair. We were similarly distant.

One time I didn’t realize he was in the bathroom and I walked in on him naked. We’d been married well over 20 years, he hid himself from me. I didn’t know what to do with that. When I look back now, in his mind, he was with her. So for me to see him, to touch him, to initiate anything, was him cheating on his AP. I actually think this is what is going on with your husband. Mentally, he is connected with her. It’s really a silly dynamic, but it happened to me too. It’s funny I still remember every detail of this interaction because it was so unexpected and so uncomfortable. And this was seven years ago or more.

Another time, he gave me a hug. But he tried not to touch me. He patted me like he would a dog, good girl. I yelled at him. I was so offended. It was because he didn’t wanna hold me again because he felt connected to her, not me.

It’s very uncomfortable this feeling. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. But you will get through. And you will be better in the end.

I have a job, I can support myself in a few months and I think if I blocked this out of my mind I could start over. Ketamine maybe. I was very single for a long time and I was fine with it. He just finally gave me a sense of community and family. But if it is lies, it can’t be real. I would rather find a situation where i was alone but not spending my days tracking him. Or with a nicer person.

I found that I too wanted to block it from my mind, but I'm glad I didn't in hindsight. I learned a LOT of lessons from this about people in general and about myself. While most of them came at a very painful price, I can't imagine going through life without knowing them. I learned not to just blindly trust without reservation (there is no need for this in this life - you can be self-protective AND still trust). I learned how to be less conflict avoidant. I learned how to set boundaries and not waiver on them. I learned how to say no. I learned I wasn't nearly as good at most of those things as I thought I was. I learned there are a lot of great people out there willing to help you and asking nothing in return (this forum is a great example of that). I learned I can prevail and feel happy on my own. I learned I didn't ever need my WH, but instead really wanted the person I thought he was. I learned that what I did need was to trust myself and to be a person I would be happy with down the road, which meant implementing some of those other lessons I already mentioned.

You also can feel happy alone and find a nicer person. But finding that nicer person is a bonus - finding yourself, and taking care of yourself - that is the real prize here. (See my signature line)

This feels like insanity. It has made me very tired and erodes my self confidence. I never had this issue before him. Not once.

I felt precisely the same way. I allowed my grief to affect my work and my mental state to the point where I felt like I might have been fired and actually had to tell my new boss (I started my "dream job" the day before D-day 2 where I discovered the A had been ongoing for a year since D-day 1) about the A as I was doing such a shit job and I had come highly recommended. I actually drove off with the gas nozzle still stuck into the side of my car, resulting in the hose being ripped off the gas tank and spraying gas all over the place, TWICE IN ONE DAY I was so mentally distracted. It was horrible. I felt like an alien or that I was in the Twilight Zone or something. I didn't know where "I" went but this crazy, miserable, incapable person wasn't me - I wanted her gone.

And eventually she did go. I think she would have been gone faster had I moved out sooner as the day-to-day lies and bullshit were just eating away at me. Instead I stuck around until my WH's behavior had kicked the shit out of me to the point I just could not take it anymore. At that time I lost that "love" for him I had clung to for so long. Sadly he has done the work, he is a very different (and better) person than he was before, but those feelings I used to have (or some semblance of them)...they just won't come back or at least they haven't yet.

Had you asked me before the A if it would have affected me in the ways it did I would have said "hell no!" but oh was I wrong.

Did your husband come home every night?

My WH worked some overnight shifts as part of his regular schedule, so not every night, but I presume you are asking if he was out running around with AP and not at home when he should have been, and the answer to that is No (aside from when the A started - I was working out of state so he could do what he liked and he was "out" quite a bit). After I came back from my out of state job WH never stayed out more than like 15 minutes after he got off work (our house is like a 5 minute drive from his work) - so most of his A was sexting and mumbling "I love you" in the hallway at work and sneaking a make out session on the workplace grounds as AP and OBS worked with my WH so they had to be ultra careful no one at the workplace caught wind of the A either or OBS would find out. AND the workplace is a closed facility subject to government security clearances so when they check in for their shifts that cannot leave the facility until they leave for the day, so when they were physically together they were almost always at work. He and the AP worked largely different shifts (oddly my WHs shifts more closely mirrored those of the OBS than the AP) so they would talk to each other while either AP or WH were at work and when OBS and/or I were not home. My WH did a lot of masturbating in our house while talking to AP when I wasn't home and she was at work, or AP would masturbate at her/OBS's house while talking to my WH while he was at work when her OBS wasn't home. Sometimes the one at work would go into the bathroom and masturbate simultaneously with the one at home while sexting. Sometimes they would video "chat" while doing it so the other could watch. They did this almost every single day at least once, but normally twice, and sometimes 3 or even 4 times a day. They even would sext when both were at work, and sometimes with the OBS sitting in the same break room with them , until one of them would go to the bathroom and masturbate and tell the other one about it while the OBS was sitting right there.

So. Gross.

I tell you all this because it all makes no sense. My WH and AP told each other they were "in love" and wanted to leave their respective partners and run off into the sunset together. My WH for the longest time really believed that AP was going to do that - and it was clear that my WH got a HUGE ego boost from knowing his friend's wife was allegedly wiling to destroy her marriage and become a bit of a pariah at work, for him (It didn't happen - AP And OBS have divorced but the A blew up before that - and they all still work together and AP is now dating some other guy).

Their messages were filled with accolades for each other - it was like an orgasm for the ego or something. There was just nothing that wasn't perfect about the other one. Physically my WH was allegedly perfect, the "biggest" and best ever in bed, he was smart, funny, sexy, everything he wore made him look "so hot" or "incredibly handsome" (unless he let on that I bought it - then AP claimed it was ugly or looked cheap or fit badly), etc etc. He was less of a compliment giver to her (which was hard to beat - everything she said was how great he was in some way unless it was sexting and even then...).

Yet, yet, yet...when it all came to the light of day, they didn't run off into the sunset. They didn't even try.

Sadly, I am in the pick me dance, against all advice. I know it is demeaning. So he now does not see any good in me, and complains to her about it. In other words, I look unhinged and she is a sympathetic angel. She is digging for dirt on me, and I am giving them ammo to talk about. I can't win.

I know I am torturing myself. I am still waiting for the more aggressive lawyer to call me tomorrow. The first lawyer was too soft and was discouraging to me. I want more firepower. And I know I am in a bit of denial. I am also stalling because I don't want to D.

If I am going to survive this, I am going to have to shut off all emotions and just get though the next week or so. This is unhealthy, but outside of confronting him, or leaving for a few days, I have no choice. I know confrontation will be very bad and will end us. He has shown me who he is. I am trying to envision a life for myself away from him. It looks lonely, bleak and empty. But that may be better than terror and constant pain/anger. That said, if I leave, the anger will come with me to my sad new life.

Trying to move forward - I have picked up a new hobby and lost 10 lbs in a month. Trying 180 (sort of). The trauma-specific therapist and me start in 3 days. At the same time, I have started to look at rentals. In a month I may be able to afford a tiny place. Feels so sad.

[This message edited by sadincolorado at 3:18 PM, Sunday, November 12th]