SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After the session was over, as we were walking to the car he gave me a hug and said he was sorry for being an ass all week. Caught me by surprise and of course gave me hope. Actually, that entire week I was pretty much set on divorcing him. But of course the hug and apology set me in a different direction. Ugh, how unfair it is that he can manipulate my feelings.

PiP, the thing about manipulation, it works best when the person being manipulated is unaware or lets it work. You are now aware that he manipulates you, and you'll stop it when you've had enough.

Think about what you want that to look like, a relationship without manipulation by your WH. Now ask yourself if its possibly with him? Is he capable of sustaining it? Are you?

My XH never looked back, and in his own cowardly way, gave me a gift. I could see us working thru his infidelity and moving forward. IF I never mentioned it again, or resorted to snooping, or any of 1000 other things that would tip the power balance in my marriage toward me. He couldn't stand the thought of being in the I-owe-Kajem-for-giving-me-the-gift-of-reconciliation-after-flucking-around. He could not stand being beholden to me for him being an ass. In his eyes I was a doormat and deserved to be treated as such!

When I found my backbone of steel,and told him to leave. He was surprised, when I didn't cave right away he knew that steel backbone wasn't going back in the toolbox. I had become aware, and I wasn't going back to the land of unaware again.

Keep coming here, we get it.

Hugs,

K

The thing is that whether we realize after the fact- I think deep down inside they know we are the strong ones. I think they hang on for dear life because they know without is they are shit- they give into their demons and self destructive behavior that is why they fight so hard to not let us go.

I believe they know us leaving them is only a matter of time before we wise up.

Stay strong- baby steps.

FYI- Someone can't be reached by text

Have you read any books about being in a relationship with an NPD? Or about co dependency?

yes, I am in the process of reading When Your Perfect Partner Goes Perfectly Wrong. I'm slow at reading it because I'm jumping between that and After The Affair (with our MC suggested I read)

I hate that I feel like the weak one. I hate it. I also feel that I am being given the gift of being able to choose whether I want to stay in this marriage or not, by being in discernment counseling. I will have the chance to say "no, I don't want to be married to him anymore" but I honestly don't know if I have the strength yet to say that! And I HATE it! I hate that he is even going to MC with me because it feels like he is trying to work on things. But then on the other hand, he really isn't trying at all. I tried asking him last Friday after our session what his view is on staying married or not. And he said "we aren't in counseling, I don't want to talk about this right now". I hate that he did something that in his eyes was making us "even". I hate that I mention the word emotional affair and he acts like I'm blowing things out of proportion. Even his first EA that I found out about the day before I confessed my own, he completely 100% swept that aside every single friggin time I brought it up because he thinks what I did was way worse and how dare I even try to compare what he did (talking to a girl in a different state) to what I did (talked to a guy I worked with). I hate that I tell him he doesn't give a shit about what he did and how it affects me and his response to me is "fuck off". I hate it all. And I hate even more how we can get along so well and I can have so much fun with him when there isn't bullshit going on or my mind isn't racing 100 mph thinking about all of the bullshit. And most of all, I hate that I have feelings for him. I hate thinking about leaving and wondering if I will regret it because I don't feel like we have given it our all to try to work on this marriage.

[This message edited by PrtyInPink at 8:49 AM, September 18th (Thursday)]

An article....

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5785616?utm_source=thecut.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange

That article definitely hit home. I don't know how many letters or emails or texts I have written him, apologizing for what I thought I did wrong, or explaining my actions or my words. I even wrote him an email just last week, saying how I feel lost and how I'm not healing because I'm not "allowed" to talk about his affair or ask questions. So the next day I asked if he read that and he said "sort of" which meant that he probably did, but didn't want to talk about it or acknowledge anything I said in the email.

Stop focusing on him, you cannot rationalize with an irrational person.

Focus on your healing, give yourself time and stop talking about anything and everything to him. Find friends, neighbors, strangers on the street, put on paper and burn, talk to everyone and anyone BUT him. He does not care and he will only use it against you.

in his own cowardly way, gave me a gift. I could see us working thru his infidelity and moving forward. IF I never mentioned it again, or resorted to snooping, or any of 1000 other things that would tip the power balance in my marriage toward me. He couldn't stand the thought of being in the I-owe-Kajem-for-giving-me-the-gift-of-reconciliation-after-flucking-around. He could not stand being beholden to me for him being an ass.

This is exactly where I am at. My stbxh is definitely undiagnosed NPD and he has said this exact thing to me.

I need to get over the affair-ummm nope since it never stopped and we were in MC and you just took it underground.

I can't get past it-yep you are right there ass.

I violated his privacy-yep open book buddy.

He said that he could not come back to me or work things out because 'too much has happened between us and I feel as if everyone wants me to be your whipping boy, like a puppy with his tail between his legs', Even if he wanted too, he just can't do it. All I wanted was just a stand up guy who can admit that he was wrong and do anything to fix what he broke.

I have learned that anything I wrote to him or said to him was twisted around to suit him. I am an 'ugly, angry bitter woman that can't let it go and accept the fact that he has found something/someone better'. Keep telling yourself that buddy...someday you might believe it.

what I keep telling people or even to myself is that he didn't pick HER, he picked himself.

he picked himself because he KNEW my standards required him manning up and changing, change is hard- super hard when you are weak.

She was willing and loves him because he is at her level, for her he doesn't have to change a single thing. She accepts him being at a dead end min wage job barely eeking a living, being cooped up in a crap apt with NO furniture, not even a damn bed to sleep in, never taking her out for dinner/meal hell not even damn drive through mcdonalds... yes she is getting the real prize.

Both him and her can tell themselves whatever they want and how wonderful great people they are and that I am the bitter, angry one.. I could care less.

I pity her, I pity him more because it is sad that he just didn't want to be a better person for himself, or his own children. I get that he tried very hard when he was with me and always felt he didn't and couldn't do enough-but even the trying was what made him worthy at times.

Sad that they cannot see that or understand that is exactly what LOVE truly is.. trying to be a better person for oneself as well as others.

So let them believe whatever they want and thank them both for proving that you are such a better person.

he picked himself because he KNEW my standards required him manning up and changing, change is hard- super hard when you are weak.

Interesting observation SSC. My kids have implied the same about XH and XSO.

what I keep telling people or even to myself is that he didn't pick HER, he picked himself.

he picked himself because he KNEW my standards required him manning up and changing, change is hard- super hard when you are weak.

She was willing and loves him because he is at her level, for her he doesn't have to change a single thing.

This is exactly what I think about my WS. In fact, the only thing he has said remotely near the truth since he left was that he's weak.

He will not engage/respond to any of my texts about his new woman or my feelings, it's as if he doesn't own up to it to me it's all deniable in the future. I think it's all part of the manipulation. If he ever did decide that he wanted to come back, he could feed me any kind of bs he wanted to and I would be none the wiser.

Sorry to just pop in, but was reading a joke book with DD8, and my jaw dropped at this one:

How does a leopard change its spots?

When it gets tired of one spot, it just moves to another.

NPDSAXWS found defined in a 2nd grade joke book. Sometimes it is that simple.

No apologies necessary on this thread bent. You just "drop in" any. time!

Much to see in that joke. Tying-in with what went before, I posit that they didn't choose themselves, they chose a spot...since a spot is a thing external to themselves, there is still

NO THERE THERE...

There is no "self" to choose.

Indeed, any brief glimpse into self sends them gibberingly into the various patterns of 'acting out' that we see here, because those actions are the avoidance mechanisms, the medicating behaviors that soothe their fundamental denial to be a real person. Their version of a real person, when life brings them to the repetitive, inevitable introspection, is something hated and feared. It's what they see inside, and they must - MUST! - turn their heads away from that.

It takes great effort - they spend a LOT of psychic energy avoiding real. Constructing false.

They can't confront themselves, so they must confront you. And life, and jobs, bosses, and responsibilities...

They can't control themselves, so they must try to manipulate and control you - with lies. Drama. Bullshit.

As painful as the denouement, the reveal, the outing, and subsequent fallout is and/or was - look at this: consider it doing you a favor!

You can now be free; not managing their manufactured crises. Do what you can to ameliorate the damage to your poor children - now that you have emerged from under the blanket of confusion and abuse. Breathe the clear air for yourself first. The free air. The open happy skies that were always meant for you.

Do forgive yourself. Be wise now.

Putting this here because I'm on my phone and have no where else to put this.

Talking with my kids over the last week about stuff. And I find myself comparing my parenting style with a gf. DD3 was telling me all about some office drama that had gf was involved in. DD used to work for gf in that office.

DD" GF is such a drama queen."

Me: Last week, I was the queen of drama, I'd better shine the tiara.

DD: mom! You are not a drama queen, you deal with drama you don't create it!

I never knew there was a difference. Learn something new everyday.

Hugs,

K

Irrational stbx is triangulating again so she can break through my typically rock-solid NC.

My plan was to get DD8 cake and do something small with her little friends at my house the week after her bday because this is her year for kids' bdays.

So I ask to switch the whole weekend instead, so that we don't have to go back and forth too many days. She agrees. Now I have that weekend free and I plan something for my own healing.

So STBX told me I was "welcome to DD8's b-day party" for a "small gathering of friends", after I asked her to change the whole weekend. He said "I could ask my dad" (why doesn't she call him herself? I'm not the boss or gatekeeper for anyone else in the world!), *and* already told DD8 that "I may show up".

So now DD8 is sad because I won't be able to go (I suspect stbx knew I was asking for the weekend switch so I could get out of town), and I'm the bad guy for "not going to her bday party".

I hate it. I can't tell her it's inappropriate for her to triangulate or she'll continue doing it. And she's damaging my child in the process.

DD8 and I were talking about one of those shows where you are asleep and you don't know which is the dream. She mentioned nightmares, and I guess I was in one of those moods because I uttered, "sometimes things happen to me I wish I was in a nightmare".

She looked at me, and said "I know exactly what you mean, daddy", and gave me a little kiss.

I love my kid. I hate that stbxww is doing that to her. I wish.. but it doesn't matter what I wish, all I can do is continue trying to be a good dad and give her a fantastic party next year.

Party to which horrible NPD woman simply won't be invited.

Tomorrow we both have an appointment at DS10's school. I can't help but see her for an hour. I'm sure she'll bring it up. I'm going to have to say "I think it's inappropriate to promise DD8 I'll come to the party, and I think it's inappropriate for both of us to be at the same party". I hope this doesn't send her off the deep end.

I hate the #^&$*^($ eggshells...!

Feeling like I need strength lately. I have been analyzing all week/weekend my relationship over the past 14 years. I feel that I have made my decision to end the M but I just don't feel like I have the strength :-( I know that he has no respect for me (or for himself). I know that he only cares about himself and what he can do to make HIS life perfect (or what he views as perfect). I just hate that I have the "what ifs". I really hate that I am so damn attracted to him. I hate that he makes me laugh. But I hate even worse that he makes me cry, and could give a shit less that I'm crying. I just wish I could look into the future and know that I will not miss him, that I will not have immense pain because my marriage is over.

GP,

You did the right thing by address the situation with DD directly. Now XW can't spin your absence to your detriment to your kids. She will do it anyway, but your kid won't believe it! And what they know is more important than what other people think.

Good luck tomorrow.

PIP, its been said that you will know when you're done. I believe it, as I've seen people struggle for a long time and one day say they are done. They can say they tried over and over before they got to the point of no return. If you aren't there yet, its ok.

Thank you, Kajem. I needed to know that "its ok". Mentally I have reached the end. I have known for SO long that this isn't the type of relationship I want to be in and that he is lacking what I need in a spouse. But my heart still feels like it needs him. I guess it'll be a struggle until I reach the point where my heart and mind both agree.

PIP,

My only cautions while waiting for your heart to catch up; is to make sure you aren't harmed. By harmed I mean not just physically. Also emotionally, and financially.

Emotionally: Staying may erode your self esteem and self respect. If you feel you're paying to high a price staying, it may be time to go.

Financially, many BS's have been taken to the cleaners while waiting. Please be diligent in keeping tabs on your families finances.

Once you are aware it is hard to return to being unaware. Aware is where you want to be. That way you can protect yourself, denial means you're waiting for him to protect you. He can't, he's npd, it isn't in him.

Hugs,

K

Kajem, thank you so much for your concern!!! I am in the process of reading When Your Perfect Partner Goes Perfectly Wrong and it has opened my eyes immensely. I do plan on reading a few other books on being in a relationship with someone who has NPD. I also plan on speaking to my IC during my appointment tomorrow about KNOWING that I shouldn't be in this relationship. H and I have an appointment on Friday with our MC (we are still in discernment counseling) and I am going to voice my views on how the marriage has been for the past 14 years. I have not told H that I think he has NPD, as we all know he wouldn't agree. I have told our MC (during my one individual session with her) that I believe he has it and my IC says he might have it as well.

I do feel like the more knowledge I can gain about NPD, the more I can protect myself, emotionally and physically. The #1 thing we discussed in MC is our safety. She referred to BOTH of our safety but I know she was more concerned with mine since he had been sent to jail for domestic assault (which the courts have since dropped). Financially I am not as worried. He actually has no idea of our financial standing. I'm an accountant, so he let me take charge of our finances about 10 years ago. I pay all the bills, balance the checkbook (daily), etc. But I do know that he is still perfectly capable of withdrawing all our money if he wanted to.

I will just keep myself guarded from here on out.