SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thumos, based on what you say above, I would suggest not reaching out to the BOW, at all. No need to poke that bear. It's not going to afford any benefit to your son.

Thumos, I just wanted to offer support and to say how glad that I am that you've come to a resolution for yourself. D isn't what anyone signed up for when we M, but sometimes there's just too much water under the bridge. I posted on your thread a while back when you were questioning why a PA wasn't a dealbreaker, and I could see you were struggling with clarity. It seems that you have the clarity you need now and that is what will see you through this. Once you can see things clearly, everything else falls into place.

Having said that, I'm concerned about how things went with your DS over the weekend. While I am glad that my kids pretty much found out about my Ex's A at almost the same time as me, it still shook the foundations of their being. And that was pretty upsetting. I hope that your DS is handling it okay and maybe you'd like to line up some IC for him to process the discussion.

(((Thumos)))

My apologies for not providing an update on the situation with my son. Here's the deal:

1. He started at a new school last week bc of the pandemic and uncertainty around in-person instruction for the school he was in (with the previous friends group with OM's son in it).

2. He's now in week 2 of the new school, and has talked repeatedly about how much more he likes this school, likes his teacher and likes his new friends group. He's almost 11, very good looking and is getting help adjusting to new classes from a lot of girls as well. The school environment is also much more civil and calm.

3. This last weekend, instead of having a quiet moment to sit down with him as I had thought to discuss his question about why his friend OM's son couldn't come over for play dates, my siblings and their kids (my nieces and nephews) came over for an extended weekend of swimming, games and cooking out. It was a blast as it always is, but prevented the conversation.

4. So I decided discretion was the better part of valor here. I'm not avoiding the topic with him, I just want to see how the next couple of weeks go, and whether his friendship with OM"s son dissipates (the entire old friends group scattered to different places) - I felt urgency before bc he had been so direct in asking, but because of the timing of things I've elected to back off a little bit.

Thumos, it's okay to wait but don't use this as an excuse to get out of telling him. You made a promise to him and you said you would be telling him soon. 11 is a little old to hope he gets distracted by something new and shiny in order to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. Is it fair to him to take a wait and see approach for a couple more weeks? Will he sense that you're stalling, avoiding, and come to the conclusion that you can't be relied on for things like this? Food for thought about what kind of message you are sending by waiting that long.

Thumos,

How has it been going with WW?. You mentioned you had to tell her again that you are moving forward with the D. Has she made any effort to change your mind or act differently?

Hey quick update:

I'm not procrastinating on the issue with my son. He will need to know, just really trying to think it through in terms of best timing. I did the same thing with the sex talk with him, and doing it at the right time in the right way pays off tremendously.

How has my wife been? She's been sex bombing the crap out of me. Now, the thing is, she's been doing this pretty consistently for 3.5 years so I'm not sure it's fair to characterize it as sex bombing. But she has taken it up a notch. Does it make it harder for me to detach? Yeah, a bit. I'd be lying if I said otherwise. But not as much as you might think and not as much as I would have thought. I have had a couple of conversations just to underscore for her that I want a divorce and want to move ahead.

I don't want to be celibate, I have a high drive, so I'm not really sure what to do about that, other than how we're doing it. Which is a lot.

How have I been? Well, frankly a little overwhelmed by my to-do list in terms of all the things needed to do to get our house ready to sell, getting all the paperwork together, making sure our finances are in order, getting the right attorney, finding a place to live, the idea of putting the house on the market, where the hell am I going to store my crap?, should I have a big garage sale to sell stuff and give away stuff? -- but I am taking tangible steps. My job has been kicking my butt lately in a good way, and that has made things move more slowly.

I have a list of recommendations for attys from friends. I have started a document with house and townhome listings in my area, and this week I'm driving around just to look at properties and really get a closer idea of what's available. With the house payment we currently pay it should be relatively easy for both of us to move into smaller but still nice homes.

I brought that up with her this weekend. As far as her reaction overall, she doesn't want it, so she's going to be passive about it. It's just gobsmacking to me that WW/WH's do what they do and then decide they will "fight" for the marriage tooth and nail. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. Destroy the very thing you claim to value so much and then refuse to end it in terms of the legal formalities? Can't get my head around that.

I don't know what happens once it really gets real and I make an appt with an atty. I've told her I'd like for us to go together.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:19 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

It's just gobsmacking to me that WW/WH's do what they do and then decide they will "fight" for the marriage tooth and nail. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me.

Yeah but you don't have to be here very long to see that it is a very common situation. I don't get it either. I think it has something to do with the difference between the way men and women react and are damaged by infidelity.

It's just gobsmacking to me that WW/WH's do what they do and then decide they will "fight" for the marriage tooth and nail. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. Destroy the very thing you claim to value so much and then refuse to end it in terms of the legal formalities? Can't get my head around that.

Thumos, that's a profound truth, right there. I've often wondered the same thing. WHY "fight" for a marriage that YOU destroyed? What could possibly be the attraction for you, at this point? How is marriage suddenly the best option for you when just a short time back you were trodding all over it with soccer cleats? Great point, man.

How has my wife been? She's been sex bombing the crap out of me. Now, the thing is, she's been doing this pretty consistently for 3.5 years so I'm not sure it's fair to characterize it as sex bombing. But she has taken it up a notch. Does it make it harder for me to detach? Yeah, a bit. I'd be lying if I said otherwise. But not as much as you might think and not as much as I would have thought. I have had a couple of conversations just to underscore for her that I want a divorce and want to move ahead.

I don't want to be celibate, I have a high drive, so I'm not really sure what to do about that, other than how we're doing it. Which is a lot.

Well, until the D is final she is still your wife. As long as she is not out banging other dudes, and she is disease free, then who am I to tell you you are making a mistake? Stop to think that her attraction to you has grown exponentially since she knows her time with you is limited. Some people only want what they can't have, and since you have basically told her she can't have you after the D, then she wants you now all the more. The evil goblin in me tells me to tell you to take advantage of her throwing them up for you. The angel in me says to tell you to stop getting her hopes up.

I have read that many times when a couple have filed for divorce, they end up going through a period of really awesome, bed-breaking, drywall-cracking sex. I guess subconsciously they are acting out the pain of separation. I dunno.

I don't know where I was going with this. O h well. Cheers. Have fun and tear that shit up.

I don't want to be celibate, I have a high drive, so I'm not really sure what to do about that, other than how we're doing it.

Once the divorce decision was made, I tried to avoid intimacy. She wasn't having it. "It" was pretty amazing. The closer I came to moving out, the harder it became. It just felt wrong, not bad. I was leaving, I couldn't give false hope. It also made the decision to leave harder.

I'm guessing similar feelings will happen for you as well. There are worse ways to end a relationship, than with good sex.

How have I been? Well, frankly a little overwhelmed by my to-do list

It's a list of things to do, not a list of things not done. Does that make sense? So take them a little at a time.

So crazyblindsided noted on Aug. 4 or 5 when I started this thread:

Welcome to this side of the forum! Hope you are able to mediate and get through this somewhat quickly. An amicable settlement sounds fantastic and I hope she doesn't drag her feet or try to lovebomb you like my STBX is trying. I am hoping to go the mediated route as well but so far my STBX has been making this VERY difficult.

Kind of prescient.

I don't want to come across like an ungrateful shit by calling what she's doing lovebombing/sexbombing, but I suppose it qualifies. My WW has done a lot the past couple of years, tangible things that line up with her trying to demonstrate the kind of wife she wants to be going forward. I've never argued with that and in fact acknowledged it. And it has been consistent. That doesn't change the fact that this has all been a dealbreaker for me. I type that out and I realize it probably comes across as cold to some people. I'm not a cold person. I'm a very warm, physically affectionate person.

Anyway, she has put the lovebombing on hard mode since I informed her on August 3. So crazyblindsided was right to call this out.

Thumos, I'm not one to judge and I'm a high-drive person. But I will tell you that I was in-house separated twice and we almost divorced the first time, then went through it again 5 years later. The first time we continued having sex, the second time I shut it down. I am SO glad I did not have sex with him that second time. It made my head so much clearer.

You do you, and absolutely no judgement because I know it's tough, but be careful. Don't get hoovered.

You do you, and absolutely no judgement because I know it's tough, but be careful. Don't get hoovered.

I don't think it stops me, but if I'm being honest it slows me down -- and she's probably counting on that. I need to keep moving forward and not get bogged down.

I had thought about bringing up celibacy with her before the pandemic hit, but I caved. And again, just being honest here, it's because I'm a high drive person and I like sex. If that makes me weak, so be it.

But I've been thinking about it a lot the past couple of weeks. Our sex life was always good before the affair and then we HB'd. That has waxed and waned a bit the past couple of years as I've dealt with the mind movies etc. The past couple of weeks though are definitely a push by her.

The little head thinking for the big head and all that. Just saying.

A possible way of analyzing (very rough/approximate time frames):

July 2016-July 2017: She has an A and engages in a pretty brutal campaign of insults, marriage re-writing, gaslighting, belittling, humiliating. Playing house with another man, in your home, in the presence of your children, to the point where your daughter concludes something is going on. About as bad as bad gets.

July 2017-July 2019: She pushes an aggressive program of rug-sweeping and denial (with your complicity), which includes refusing to disclose any information about the A except that which you discovered via your own investigation. She destroys most of the recorded evidence. She behaves as a "good wife" and treats you well, except when it comes to issues of the A, which are off limits for discussion. If/when it does come up, DARVO. You're pretty sure she has lied to you about the A.

By the way, I don't think we've discussed your view of what changed in her over that year. What led her to go into the "my marriage is a living Hell that I will escape via playing house with another man" to "I'll be a pleasing and uplifting wife to Thumos"? Has that ever been explained by her?

July 2019-July 2020: You come here feeling stuck in the plain of lethal flatness and gradually come to realize that the initial rug-sweeping has left you with the frayed, still-sparking loose end of the A flailing around in your gut. You drag her kicking and screaming through a protracted, agonizing process of disclosure theater, but conclude, based in part on the poly and in part on the inconsistencies between her story and the surrounding circumstances, that she is continuing to lie about the extent of the A.

There are periods of sexual difficulty, an artifact of the injury she inflicted via the A.

July 2020 - present: You tell her you want a D. She steps up the sex even more, and the "good wife" stuff even more. However, when the A comes up, you still get DARVO.

Back to one of the earliest points I made in one of your earliest threads. What you've been getting this past year, or some version of it, is what you're going to get. A wife who will put in some degree of effort to be a Stepford Wife for you going forward, but will always and forever DARVO about the A. My own feeling is that she steps up the Stepford Wife thing as the threat of you leaving increases; logic dictates that will diminish if/when she ever feels confident you won't leave.

There is a duality concept. The same person, capable of such cruelty and betrayal at one time, and then love-bombing you at others. Here on SI we read that healing from an A involves, among other things, the WW engaging in IC to figure out what was broken in her to enable her to make the string of decisions and choices leading to the A. Fixing herself. Making herself into somebody different than she was before. Somebody who would not make the same choices, even if the circumstances were the same. I don't recall reading that your WW has done this. It leaves you with this odd paradox in terms of understanding who your wife is as a person. It's like she wants to deny that there is a part of her capable of and willing to make the decisions and choices to engage in an A, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

So, the question to ask yourself is where you want to be in 10 years. Some average of what you've had between July of 2017 and now is probably your future with her. I'm not suggesting that's necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it works for you. All I'm saying is: make an honest assessment of the marriage you're in right now. When you look at yourself in the mirror in 10 years, what Thumos do you want staring back at you?

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:45 PM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

The one you knock back is the one you miss out on.

One day at a time

Buffers

A possible way of analyzing (very rough/approximate time frames):

Other than a few details, date ranges and nuances, BFTG, this is an accurate summation. Interesting to read it all laid out like that. Thanks!

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:54 PM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

Other than a few details, date ranges and nuances, BFTG, this is an accurate summation. Interesting to read it all laid out like that. Thanks!

It is and I'd like to add - she does it in part because it worked for a few years. It's the only tool in her "Stay Married" tool belt. She's been informed of other tools. She's been told over and over what tools would be better suited to the job and would actually lead to her staying married. She's choosing the method she knows only might work but ultimately is the one she's most comfortable using because she's not willing to step outside her comfort zone in order to get the job done.

Personally, I wouldn't find it enough and honestly, when someone offers me something I didn't ask for in exchange for something I did ask for multiple times, I find it insulting and disrespectful. I don't think most people would put up with this exchange unless their standards are very low. So no matter how much bombing happens, you can still hold your head high and press forward.

I don't think most people would put up with this exchange unless their standards are very low. So no matter how much bombing happens, you can still hold your head high and press forward.

Agreed.

Thumos, I saw your comment about some details of your D negotiation over in JFO. I didn't want to thread jack there.

One purpose of legal documents is to memorialize the terms of a contractual agreement so that, later, as memories fade and expectations/life circumstances morph, there is a place you can look to see what was agreed to. Side understandings don't play well with that purpose.

Another purpose of legal documents, especially where real estate is involved -- because real estate stays around a lot longer than humans do -- is to memorialize the terms of the contractual agreement so there is a place to look them up when one of the parties to the agreement croaks. In that instance, side understandings are completely lost to history.

Finally, if there is a side deal, and if there is a later legal dispute about the "main" contract and, during that dispute, it comes to light that there was a side deal, then the "main" contract is almost worthless. Completely exposed to any allegation of other side deals.

Bottom line: if there is a deal, or an understanding, get it in writing. No side deals.

I'd like to see about a consensus here among those who have followed through on D - how often do you think about your XWS's betrayal and infidelity know that you have cleaved the pair bond and moved on?

I suspect the answer is going to be "not much" or "hardly at all" but I'm curious.

I'm already tending toward not thinking about my WW's infidelity nearly as much as before I told her a month ago I wanted a divorce -- and I'm just focused on the tangible nuts and bolts of the D process and how to actually get that done as quickly and painlessly and amicably now.

I suspect that when it's complete, I won't think about her betrayal a lot, certainly not as much as I did the last four years. I will certainly think about being a good dad for my kids and the difficulty of divorce for kids -- but that's an entirely different set of concerns.