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During the month between when my husband told me his latest version of the events from 21 yrs ago, until the moment I decided to ask my sister about it (Jan 25 – around Feb 23), he and I got into some of the worst arguments we have had since my affair back in 2009. Things got very ugly for about a week off and on, with lots of crying, yelling, defensiveness, and confusion. I was asking him to simply be consistent. I was beginning to feel crazy because he would say one thing, take it back and say the opposite and be defensive, agree I was right and he was wrong and be contrite, then say it again, take it back, etc.. I felt like I was losing my mind so I said I was going to record our arguments, which he did not want me to do. I told him I wanted to be able to go back to hear what he said because I felt like I was really going nuts with all of the back and forth. Like are you contrite and remorseful or are you going to get defensive and bring up shit from my A so we no longer focus on what you are doing wrong?! Pick one and stick with it because the back and forth was horribly confusing and frustrating. He even went so far one awful night to accuse me of emotional abuse. I brought it up to our MC and she said the examples he used were NOT emotional abuse at all. He now agrees and has apologized for saying that to me. I really do think he was using it because I had brought up his poor treatment of me after my A. But to be accused of that absolutely destroyed me. I was very distraught trying to understand how I could have done that to him in the ways that he mentioned.

So now it’s a few weeks after that and he has been much better. The few times I brought things up, he remained calm, remorseful, answered questions appropriately, etc…i.e..saying all the right things. But also I think things are better because I haven’t talked much about it or brought it up.

Sister update: I went to my sister, about 1.5 weeks ago, with husband’s latest version of events from 20 years ago. I went into the conversation completely expecting her to deny what he said happened. He had asked me before I did that if we could take him for a polygraph and when completed bring that with me when I speak with her. I did not do this.

I calmly and with zero emotion told her what he said happened and she calmly with zero emotion denied his version of events. She did say she can see how perhaps her behavior and attitude at the time could have been misconstrued as interest and that she did have a crush on him but she then said “I had crushes on all your boyfriends over the years”. She gave me a tiny bit different version of the way she originally told me what happened.

She said that he expressed being sexually frustrated, she told him to “take care of himself” and he said “oh you mean like right now?” and she said “yeah I don’t care” and so he proceeded to do so. She explained to me that she always wanted to appear cool and like nothing bothered her, so she felt like she was doing that then as well. She said she takes ownership for that part, but nothing else. She remains completely fine with him, and expressed that she is still not angry at him. In fact, a few days after our conversation she asked how things were at home, I said they are fine, and she said “Ok so can we plan our family vacation now then?”

Here's the craziest thing…I am numb to all of it right now. I feel ZERO emotion at all about any of it. What is going on with me? Where did all the rage, anger, sadness go? Especially in the face of more conflicting information. It’s like a switch was flipped! I am not numb in general (I.e. watched an episode of This is US and got teary eyed over missing my kids when they were little), so I don’t think it’s like an overall depression. And I even feel more motivated in the past few days to do more around the house, looked more into getting my master’s, looked at some job opportunities. I have been reading The Body Keeps the Score, which is a great book by the way.

I also had a meeting with an attorney about what moving forward with separation or divorce would look like. I didn’t get any numbers unfortunately (like what I could hope to expect with alimony, etc) but she really didn’t think my A would have any bearing and his only would if we decided to go FAULT. She doesn’t recommend that because its always ugly, expensive, time consuming and likely wouldn’t get me much more money anyway.

Not much else to report but he is being super hero husband these days, laying it on thick 24-7. He keeps trying to plan an overnight getaway and I keep putting it off because I feel like he’s doing that in hopes I will have sex with him. Not happening!

Not much else to report but he is being super hero husband these days, laying it on thick 24-7.

Oh yes, I'm sure he's deep into love bombing you after emotionally abusing you for weeks with the explosive arguments, deflecting, and accusations. Don't think for one second that any of what he is doing is genuine. It wasn't genuine a month ago before those hellish weeks and it's not genuine now. In a short while, he'll let the mask slip again and go back to blame shifting and deflecting.

Here's the craziest thing…I am numb to all of it right now.

You're in shock. It's all too much to handle. And you know if you confront him now, the mask slips again and it will be more hours, days, weeks of arguing. So what good does it do to get upset about something you can't do anything with right now? It's easier just to shut down and the feelings will come back with time just to hit you like a brick. So take good care of yourself.

Go back and read through your last thread. Isn't this pretty much what everyone said was the case? That his story wasn't believable and he was likely assuming she was interested when she wasn't? Remember when I said that it's a known trait of predators to misinterpret interactions as being more flirtatious than they actually are or that their target is interested when they're not? I can't stress to you how clear this situation looks on the outside looking in. You can confront your husband if you want but I don't know what you're expecting to get from him that isn't more of the same.

The crazy train of manipulation, gaslighting, and emotional abuse is precisely why I told you in your last thread to STOP going to MC with him.

You can expect this rollercoaster to get much worse with time, particularly if he starts to feel like he’s losing control over you. His behavior is inconsistent because he’s trying to pretend he’s something he’s not— a loving, remorseful husband— which isn’t an act he can maintain for very long without getting frustrated and angry at you. He has been violent with you before; you know he’s capable of being violent again.

Edit;add: The numbness you’re feeling is from emotional and mental exhaustion. I’ve been there before... there’s only so much you can take before you shut down. This suits your husband’s purposes because he knows your too fatigued at the moment to take him to task for anything. He will ramp up the crazy train again at the first sign of fight from you.

Lastly, while I don’t blame your sister for what your husband did with her as a teenager, I find her treatment of you NOW to be pretty damn awful. Like the rest of your family, she doesn’t seem to give a shit about how any of this is impacting you... she just wants you to shut up so you can go on a family vacation and pretend everything is normal.

I’m so angry on your behalf that you don’t seem to have a single person who is in your corner right now, supporting you 100%. We will do the best we can as your SI family.

I know this isn’t what you want to hear but it needs to be said again... you really need to leave him. He is a sexual predator. He has emotionally and physically abused you terribly. Your past infidelity does not mean you need to eternally debase yourself by accepting and learning to live with despicable behavior and treatment.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:16 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]

I find it interesting that he wanted to take a polygraph to prove that his version of events is true. When I told my sister that she said she would take one too. WTH!

Regarding the mask slipping...I feel like that is WS behavior in a way. I can remember after my A feeling like I was saying or doing the right things but when he would confront me about something or challenge me on something, my shame and guilt turned into defensiveness and anger. I have done these things he is doing AND I have changed. Maybe that's why it is harder for me to just write him off. I have been somewhat in his shoes. Perhaps if you have never been a person who had an affair/cheated on your spouse, then you automatically have no understanding of how someone can act like this, and very little ability to put up with it. I can understand that. But the human in me, the one who has messed up, understands that people can change. It can take stuttering starts and misfires, but they can. As evidence consider the multitude of WSs here that have changed for the better, after starting out horribly.

I don't however want to say that this excuses or somehow makes better the grossly inappropriate behavior piece (he was in his 30s and she 16). That part I have NO understanding of and trouble giving any leeway on whatsoever. Not just trouble, I cant do it at all. I can't see past it. I can't wrap my head around the "immaturity" that now at least FIVE therapists have agreed is cause for his behavior. NOT ONE OF THEM has been willing to come out and say to me, and I have asked, that this was criminal and he should have had more severe consequences etc. I have struggled with that A LOT during all of this.

Bluer, I am feeling angry at my sister now because of what feels like selfishness on her part. But that is nothing new for her. She dropped a bomb on my life 5 months ago and has barely said boo to me about how I'm doing. A part of me however chalks this up to her trying to maintain her sanity around it, but it really doesnt look or feel like she is struggling at all, except with it coming out and the fallout. I am hard pressed to understand how ADULT her is not angry at him, even now.

She goes so far as to send things in group chats with our other sister about the lovey dovey things her ahole husband is doing.

I think you need to do some research on the victims of sexual abuse. Your sisters behavior is actually in line with most victims.

It's the same way a person will be molested by a family member and still take their own children around the same person.

Thru behavior your family has shown her that he is to be accepted.

I believe it is your choice to stay with your husband however..

You found out what he did and you didn't leave. HE(not your sister) dropped a bomb in the middle of your life and you didn't leave.

My heart breaks for you...but I want you to understand that you are attempting to hold your sister to a standard that you are not applying to yourself or your husband.

I would also caution all that her sister is a victim. And NOT an OW.

Her sisters reaction is that if victim, following the lead of the family and she has been conditioned too.

OP has choices in this situation...shitty albeit.

Her sister did NOT have a choice in her assault by OPs husband nor in her families dynamic to ignore her pain and rugsweep. Or that when she told her story the people around her told her to hide her pain and discomfort.

Why should she be angry? When it was her in pain, confused, etc by the assault NO ONE in her family gave her support/care. So why would OP need it now...when the 16 year old who had no choice didn't.

I find it interesting that he wanted to take a polygraph to prove that his version of events is true. When I told my sister that she said she would take one too.

Not at all surprising. Many,many waywards say they will take a polygraph. Many ask for one. Because they don't believe their BS will follow through with it,and because many BS believe if they agree,or offer, then they must be telling the truth.

Did you have him take the test? No.

She gave me a tiny bit different version of the way she originally told me what happened.

That is typical. She remembered more details.

Unlike your husband, who's story continues to change.

You are upset that the adult her isn't more angry. Considering your parents response, I'm not surprised at all. The way we are raised has a profound affect on us. As you know. She was taught this wasn't bad. No big deal. So,even though she knows better now, her upbringing is still in play.

I would be angry that your husband, who was in his 30s then, and is much older now, continues to blame a child for his actions. That says a lot about who he is,what he is, and indicates he is not,in any way, R material.

I think you should schedule the polygraph. I think you will find out this isn't the only time he was a predator. Or the only time he cheated.

I have a much younger sister. I think our age difference is similar to you and your sister's. Can I ask why you won't leave him? Do you love him. Why?

Excellent posts, prissy.

To clarify-- both to Unreal and everyone else-- I'm not blaming the sister for being a victim. I'm not blaming her for not hating Unreal's husband. I'm just upset and flabbergasted that she knows her sister is in pain but doesn't seem to care.

But, as you all pointed out, this family basically discounted her feelings all these years and told her not to care, so this is entirely normal for her.

As for whether you should proceed with a polygraph, I think, in your case, it's a waste time and money. If grooming your teenage sister over an extended period of time and then sexually abusing her isn't an ultimate condemnation of his character, I don't know what is.

Although I think the question of whether he has been unfaithful in other instances is irrelevant (what he's already admitted is enough of a dealbreaker), I can save you an average of $700 and tell you with 99% certainty that the answer is YES. A man who faps off in front of his kid sister-in-law while his wife is asleep in the next room isn't going to have much restraint with other women while he's traveling on business frequently or alone with his devices.

Even if you put infidelity aside, he doesn't have any respect for you as woman or a human being. He only cares about you insofar as you are useful to him.

If you do decide to go forward with a polygraph, understand that it cannot objectively discern truth from lies; it only tests for stress responses. If your husband is extremely comfortable with and practiced at lying, there's a good chance he will be able to pass.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:44 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]

As for the therapists... you don't need meteorologist to tell you it's raining when you're standing in the middle of a downpour.

NOT ONE OF THEM has been willing to come out and say to me, and I have asked, that this was criminal and he should have had more severe consequences etc. I have struggled with that A LOT during all of this.

Why would his therapists say this? The moment they do, they will lose him as a client. Why would your marriage counselor tell you he's a criminal and you should leave? Their goal is to keep you in marriage counseling. They don't want him to quit going to MC and they don't want to lose your business to a divorce lawyer.

If your therapist won't come out and explicitly say this, it could just be that he or she is a lousy therapist.

Or, alternately, your therapist recognizes that even though you know objectively that he committed an illegal and immoral act, you simply aren't willing accept that it's a demonstration of his character because you're still hanging on to guilt over your own affair.

But as bad your affair was, it was an affair-- an illicit sexual relationship between 2 consenting adults. Your sister was your husband's victim.

We don't know that her sister doesn't care that OP is hurting.

It sounds as if she has tried very hard to bury her shame over what happened, and is trying to pretend,just as she has done for years, that it didn't happen. Shame is a normal reaction of sexual abuse victims.

If she talks to her sister about the pain she is in, she can no longer pretend it didn't happen.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:21 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]

OP, you are an intelligent woman. You don't need a therapist to tell you something is deeply wrong with your husband. Nor do you deed a therapist to tell you what you should do. You already know.

I know you don't mean too...but it victim-blaming. Judging her sister for not having the "right feelings or reactions' and assigning negative assumptions based on that "she doesn't care that her sister is hurting"

Look at it from her perspective...

He took advantage of her

her family USED her to promote "fake family"

her family made her RESPONSIBLE for her sister's happiness and marriage success

she had to sit through holidays, gatherings, etc with the person who violated her... and I would bet money they before the next gathering after she told what he did to her...she was 'spoken too".

She was reminded not to say anything, to put on the best face, and made to remember that her..and her alone..was responsible for the happiness of her sister and person who VIOLATED HER.

We speak so much hate/revenge being the poison you take hoping to kill someone else. This is exactly what this family put on the 16-year-old and now that she is an adult she is supposed to be outraged on her sister's behalf?

I'm sorry.. OP your sister has given up enough for you. I KNOW you did not ask for her sacrifice...but you got it. You "benefited"(this is the best/worse way I can describe it) from it. So did the other members of your family. And so did your husband, your children.

Even now...you have the choice(I fully acknowledge that it's shitty) of staying or leaving. Your 16 year old sister did not.

You want her to be angry and do what? Yell, fight, scream, etc. Then all the years of swallowing the poison would be worthless. She made her sacrifice. She did what she had to do for her family.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 2:44 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]

I agree with Prissy.

Unreal, I understand the draw to be angry at your sister. It's because you've been so close over the years. We are often the most comfortable being angry at the people who we have the best relationship with. Why? Because it's easier. Because we know we CAN be angry and still get through it together. I bet if you sit down and really try to put things in to perspective, read more about sexual abuse, grooming, and teen/child victims, and really try to put yourself in her shoes, you may understand her position better and realize that the anger is coming from somewhere else. Possibly from anger directed at your husband for putting you in this position and being an unsafe person for you to vent and be angry at right now. Anger directed at your parents for fostering an environment in which they put your husband first, encouraged secrecy, and normalized an abusive and immoral situation. Maybe even some anger at yourself. But I have a hard time believing that all of this anger is solely directed at your sister when she hasn't done anything TO you like your husband has and like your parents have. And yet I see plenty of times you excuse or defend their behavior. Why do they deserve more loyalty and consideration from you?

I don't believe she isn't asking you out of malice or because she doesn't care. Talking more about it outside of answering your questions acknowledges how awful what happened was and breathes life into it. Do your parents ask you how you are? Is your husband asking you about your healing? Doesn't sound like it so why is your sister getting the brunt of your negative feelings about it when there is plenty of blame to go around?

Even if you don't take him to a polygraph to confirm, you have demonstrated the usefulness of a complete *written* timeline of infidelity.

Start there.

As much as it sucks, compassion/empathy from your sister is OUTSIDE OF HER RANGE.

Whether that's bc of what happened with your WH or her FOO (or response), or her general character.

I completely understand the deep seated desire to be seen and loved by a family member who simply does not have the skills to provide it. It's something we have to learn to accept, and do it with the most compassion and empathy that we can muster, rather than the judgment that is most folks' (myself included) knee jerk reaction (and I'd argue the knee jerk judgment / anger is really to protect us from the pain in ourselves.... eg, that we are not "worth" the compassion we crave, or are shitty people, etc. It's tough stuff).

I just see a lot of spinning of wheels about the sister and what/why she's unable to be supportive, when IMHO, the focus should be on you and how YOU can get the support you need from people that are equipped to provide it.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:10 PM, March 3rd, 2021 (Wednesday)]

She said that he expressed being sexually frustrated,

^^^the grooming of a teenage victim by an adult offender.

Thank you all for your insight. Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable posting publicly anymore since H is aware of this forum. I do have the availability to receive PMs however. I appreciate those who took the time to comment.

I apologize if I upset any CSA survivors when I said I was angry at the sister for not being supportive of Unreallife. I wasn't trying to blame her for what the husband did.

I just wish that Unreallife had someone in real life that was 100% on her team. Her sister, for obvious reasons, isn't that person and it would be unfair to expect her to be.

So you shared your safe place with him, because you wanted him to start posting(a very reasonable expectation), but he refused because he knew we would see through his bullshit, and now you can no longer post here, in YOUR SAFE PLACE, because he has taken that from you as well.

What a load of shit.

I very,very rarely PM waywards here. The OW in my situation is also here, and I don't know who she is friends with, so I just don't.

But I will leave you with this. You have children. Look at them,at age 16, and imagine an adult in their 30s doing to them what he did to your sister. What would you think of that adult? THAT is your husband. We all see that clearly. You have feelings, and history, clouding your perspective. Clear all that away,and he is a man who preyed on a child. Any parent who has had a 16 year old,knows they are very much a child. IDGAF what the law says.

You are not safe. I pray you find the courage to leave him behind. You deserve so much better.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:20 AM, March 4th (Thursday)]