SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First post. I found out about this site from my husband who has since been removed from the website so I hope it's okay that I post.

I had an emotional affair that became a physical affair at the end resulting in me performing oral on my affair partner. I confessed, though not everything, right after the encounter. I kept secret the pictures we would send and he found that out pretty recently. He found out about the affair in October. My husband is crushed, devastated, there's not really a word for it. My husband is a kind and caring man he faced many hardships in his life before and after we got together. His mom cheating on his dad and ruining him, forcing him to work and leave his dreams and school behind because his dad didn't make enough to support them both. Other things after that he struggled with. I don't know how much he said since I haven't read his posts.

My husbands goal was always to get married and have kids. Like I said he's very kind but also funny, driven, handsome and free. My adultery is something he never expected, not in a million years because I understood what happened to him. Yet I did it anyways, I liked the attention, I didn't think I'd go that far but deep down I knew I would. There was nothing wrong in our marriage, sure we'd fight about money or something but we'd never stay upset for more than a day. So of course I had to destroy it.

He's never let his anger out fully he keeps it and only lets bits of it out. He's tired of his life, he said he always loses and he could count on me always but now he can't

He's giving me until the divorce hearing to prove I want him so we can try to reconcile. He explained to me to not get my hopes up but to just try your best. Me starting counseling was also a requirement, he's scared for my mental health because of the kids. They hate me and now they don't want to talk to him either.

He wants something to show I mean it, and that I already know what it is. I've thought about it so hard I don't know what it is. I've always tried to help him but now he's more receptive to it. I do everything before he has a chance to but that just makes him upset he says he doesn't want a maid. He asked me if I wanted to have sex and I didn't really know how to answer except yes I would and he just cried. We were onlies not just for sex but for kissing too. I'm just cheap and I threw it away for nothing, I hurt my husband and my children for no reason. I tell him I love him we have long talks every night starting about 2 weeks ago we let it all out. I try to be empathetic but I can't understand his pain so to him if comes off as just sadness and remorse.

I just wanted to ask what I could do to help him I love him. My post is all over the place too I'm sorry

Have you been able to introspect and answer the question of why did you give oral to another man?

When you knew it would end your marriage if your husband found out.

I've read your husband's posts and don't see a way forward, frankly. He'll always see you as the mother who ruined his father with her cheating. I'm shocked that he's even mentioned reconciliation to you. I thought he had already taken off. I guess there are few single women in his age group and in your religious group available? He mentioned having a hard time meeting moral women, so that might have made him reconsider reconciliation. However, he is so bitter, understandably, that I just don't see it happening.

I agree with the PP, if you want a place to start, start with the real reason why, and leave "I don't know" and "I was stupid" and "I was in a fog" out on the doorstep. Dig deep and find & share the real reason. BS's always want to know why. We want to know if you loved the AP, and/or found the AP more sexually attractive than us. Those are the two issues our minds circle around endlessly.

We were onlies not just for sex but for kissing too. I'm just cheap and I threw it away for nothing,

Again, why? There was a reason. It didn't "just happen". I've been intimate with 5 men in my life, and for each one, I still remember why, even though they were years ago.

I could only dream about having a relationship and marriage like the one you threw away. Never had anything close to it and probably never will. There was a reason you tossed it in the shredder, and I, too, am curious why.

[This message edited by morningglory at 11:24 PM, Friday, May 13th]

I am a betrayed spouse
I am sure you "know" from reading these posts what being betrayed does to a person
It is worst pain anyone can ever go through second to loss of a child
Unless you’ve experienced it, you can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like
So having said that, it is not as easy for the wayward to truly understand her spouse’s emotions, state of mind, etc
But it is critical to try to learn about it as much as you can
Read books, watch YouTube videos, talk to a trauma specialist, etc

Your spouse has given you the most precious gift you will ever receive- an opportunity for you to show him you are capable of reconciling
Have you asked him what he needs? There’s of course the obvious stuff like giving him full access to your phone, computer, every digital device, credit card statements, checking in with him if you ever leave the house, have find my friend app on your phone, he should be able to reach you 24/7 where ever you are, etc. But besides those things, every betrayed needs different things to feel safe, loved, and valued.
My wayward left for the AP so i didn’t get the chance to do an intensive weekend retreat for couples post infidelity. But I;ve heard good things about them. Maybe that might be an option for you if your husband is open to it. If he’s not, I suggest you go alone. You will learn a lot. You will hear from many betrayed spouses and what they are experiencing, etc, and how to start the marriage restoration process.

But before you do anything, you must be 100% sure that you are fully completely totally committed to your marriage and your husband. And that you are 100% done with your AP. You can’t have one foot here and there.
And you need to get yourself into therapy to really dig deep and discover WHY you did what you did. Sometimes it’s just needing attention. But sometimes it can go much deeper than that-childhood issues that you never knew you had, etc. Unless you know why you did what you did, you may do it again.

It's disgusting I just liked the attention. I knew it was wrong but I said to myself I wouldn't cross the line that was already crossed even though deep down I knew I would. I don't know if there is a deeper reason. My husband says if I wasn't raped or molested or had some sort of trauma then I'm just a bad person and this is who I've always was and hiding my true colors from him all these years hurts almost as bad as the cheating itself. I've had months to think about it and he's right, there is no deeper reason besides I liked it up until I didn't

It's disgusting I just liked the attention.

That's a pretty vague description. What was it about the AP that attracted you and made you want his attention, more than your husband's? You wouldn't have done that for just anyone's attention, so there was something appealing about the AP to you, that you couldn't get from your husband. Were you in love with him? If so, why? What traits did he have that your husband didn't?

Hi Sakura.

I always loved that Japanese song by the way.

I wasn’t aware your husband was asked to leave the site. I followed his posts.

One concern I have with posts like these is the possibility that your husband may be using a nom de plume and reposting. I assume the site checks for that so will take it at face value.

I do wish your husband well, but he expressed a lot of contempt for the Wayward page, and almost as much contempt for reconciling or reconciled betrayed spouses like me.

I have personally found the posts of Daddy Dom, Brave Sir Robin, Migander and Mrs Walloped (and others) so so helpful to me as a BS, now reconciled, or close to. All aspects of this site are useful.

Your husband describes having PTSD from his childhood and his mother’s remorseless cheating and his poor father. He describes being deeply religious in a Calvinist church and undertaking biblical study.

In a post I mentioned the Samaritan women at the well.

I think to reconcile with your husband it will have to come from a place of deep and profound insight and remorse, in a manner consistent with your shared religious faith. The Bible allows divorce in circumstances of infidelity but I don’t know that it compels it. Don’t take advantage of his religious views to force reconciliation. Live righteously and let him have the choice.

[This message edited by straightup at 11:03 AM, Saturday, May 14th]

So of course I had to destroy it.

That's an interesting turn of phrase.

He's giving me until the divorce hearing to prove I want him so we can try to reconcile.

That's not how things work in the real world. Ask your husband what it will take to "prove" that to him. I doubt he'll know and it's all a set up for failure.

I'm just cheap and I threw it away for nothing, I hurt my husband and my children for no reason

There was a reason. Not an excuse. But there's a reason (possibly a few). It's up to you to figure out why and how to become the person you want to be.

Reconciliation is a process that involves both people in a relationship. It requires humility, dedication and communication. Things which I suspect are impossible at the start, during the discovery and trauma-handling stages. And judging by some of your husband's communication on this site, he'll need to get off his high horse before he'll be able to achieve them.

I don't know the situation between you and your kids but if divorce is imminent make sure you get a good lawyer. Parental alienation is a thing (usually against men but I've seen against women as well).

As far as yourself, in my opinion, you need to take space; find a decent therapist. Figure out where you are, where you've been and where you want to be as a person, wife and mother. And learn how to work towards that. And do it because it's the right thing to do, not for anyone else. You're not inherently evil or bad because you cheated anymore than your husband is inherently bad or evil because of anything that he did. Very *very* few people are inherently evil.

Remember, divorce or reconciliation, neither is the end of the world. Just another step of a journey.

Good luck, I do hope you two find a way together. A marriage is worth saving if it can be.

You're not inherently evil or bad because you cheated anymore than your husband is inherently bad or evil because of anything that he did.

Total false equivalency, to place the WW's behavior on the same level as the BS's behavior.

Parting question, but do you want to be married to a man who is judgemental and manipulative anyway?

OP, you'll probably do better to post in a forum where more betrayed people will answer. Getting the opinions and biases of mostly fellow waywards (such as the comments above) probably isn't going to help you get closer to your BH, which is your stated goal. BS's will be able to tell you what they needed to feel they could reconcile, to be able to trust and try again with the WS, etc. A lot of BS's avoid reading or posting on the Wayward forum.

The "healing library" at the top of the site has a lot of good resources, too. Find and read the recommended books about how to heal your marriage after an affair. Take the initiative to purchase them and tell your husband you're reading them, talk about what you think of them. Get into individual therapy and stick with it. Put tracking software on your phone, etc., and give him the info he needs to be able to track you. Let him see you're taking initiative, and not just being passive. You messed the marriage up, so you have to take the initiative to fix it. A lot of BS's are weary after giving everything to their WS's only to be betrayed. At that point, some of them are only willing to reconcile if the WS takes the lead and does the serious work without being prompted. You can't be pathetic ("I'm so cheap"..."Of course I ruined it") or passive now. You need to show him that you can be strong now, which is strength he knows you'll need to avoid temptation in the future. If you continue to be weak, he'll figure that you'll easily betray him again. He's giving you a chance: take it!

[This message edited by morningglory at 2:46 PM, Saturday, May 14th]

Hi Sakura,

Heads up, I am assuming you come from a background of conservative Christian. I am a Catholic convert with a strong Biblical study background and some of what I have to say cones from that place. Please correct me in my assumptions and salt it as you will.

Some of the language you use around, "being cheap" and ,"of course I had to ruin it" point to a sense of low worth and self sabotage. Seeing yourself as cheap... is that something you carried within before the affair? You mentioned the religious community youre in and the self righteous responses from your BH point to it being a more consevative fire and brimstone type. Sometimes these communities encourage the false idea that women are inherently sinful amd dangerous in their sexuality.

You talked about being each others firsts for everything. When did you meet? Did you meet in early adulthood or during your adolesence? I ask because kissing boys amd holding hands and other light signs of affection are normal and healthy experiences for teenagers to explore. Did your religion block all of that, severely restricting that until either adulthood or marriage?

All of these things play into how you were trained to see yourself as a woman and can keep you from owning and enjoying your sexuality in a healthy manner. Sometimes we can act out from childhood wounds with an A that has more to do with how we were rsised than how our M is actually going.

Did you act out of a deep seated anger over being told you were inherently sinful and your sexuality was a problem to be managed, not a beautiful God given gift to be nurtured, treasured amd explored (especially in your M)? Women before the fall were seen as bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. The song of Solomon is one long ode in clearly sexual language of the deep intimate love our God has for us. If God loves us even in our sexuality (which He gave us in the first place... why make a clitoris if women enjoying sex is sinful???) us not loving ourselves in our sexuality is an insult to the gift He gave us in the first place.

Its not uncommon for old coping mechanisms and old negativity about ourselves to catch up with us as we approach our middle years. My affair was somewhat related to this. I would recommend exploring the ideas you have surrounding yourself as a woman and how you believe God and others see you. These false negative beliefs we have about ourselves can warp our perceptions about ourselves. Identifying yourself as cheap can lead to a despair of ever being holy. How can a cheap woman be holy and clean in the eyes of her husband, let alone her God? From there can come a sense of despair, "if all I am is cheap, then does it really matter if I act that way? Oh look... here comes a man telling me I am great! He can fill this hole of self loathing! So... what does it matter if I behave cheaply with him, at least when I do, I dont feel cheap for a while! And really, God doesnt care, he knows Im cheap anyway."

Wishing you the best.

Parting question, but do you want to be married to a man who is judgemental and manipulative anyway?

Morningglory who said my husband was manipulative and judgemental? I don't see the original message. (Oh nevermind it was after yours)

I don't think that's fair to say at all, he just wanted a wife who didn't cheat. If anything I manipulated him. He has the same standards for himself as he does everyone else. Calvinists like all Orthodox Christians believe in original sin. I was never repressed sexually because I wanted to wait until marriage, not because I was manipulated by my faith but because deep down I believe it's the right thing to do, obviously God says sex outside of marriage is a sin a damning but like I said I wasn't coerced with punishment or something.

He believes women are inherently sinful, and men, because he's a Christian. I showed him your comment and he showed me a post he made about how whore is a term applied to both genders but men don't really have a word like that applied to them for cheating etc besides pig which is unfair. I think that's quite fair and balanced

I just don't think it's fair what you're saying.

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 7:41 PM, Saturday, May 14th]

Morningglory

Yes I've deleted everything but not without showing him first and set up location sharing on my Google account. I've started reading how to heal your spouse as well. I've also thrown away the clothes I wore during because of the semen. Acts of service, words of affirmation and physical touch are his love languages so I've been trying to reassure him on things that I can read to see if he's receptive to it if that makes sense. No physical intimacy besides touching and rubbing though because I don't want to push him for it.

What I liked about my ap was he was nice. He wasn't nicer than my husband you're right I have to figure it out but I just think my reason for betraying my husband is just I liked it, I've been hit on before and never given it a thought maybe it's because my kids are leaving for school. My counselor seems to think that but I've only been going for about a week so far.

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 7:42 PM, Saturday, May 14th]

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[This message edited by morningglory at 3:26 AM, Thursday, May 19th]

Something I feel but don't want to bring up is I did manipulate my husband though unintentionally to try to give me a chance. I've lost my job recently because of what I did and I don't know what to think. I don't want to doubt him giving me a second chance because he still loves me and wants to be with me but I feel like me losing my job is a big reason. Also the children and how he comforted me during an incident. I feel like I'm toying with him. Again I feel like I'm doubting him but it's just what I feel. His biggest fear is ending up like his father and maybe he's trying to break the cycle if you understand what I mean. I just want to bring this up to him without denying his feelings with my own perceptions.

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 10:12 PM, Saturday, May 14th]

That's a pretty vague description. What was it about the AP that attracted you and made you want his attention, more than your husband's? You wouldn't have done that for just anyone's attention, so there was something appealing about the AP to you, that you couldn't get from your husband. Were you in love with him? If so, why? What traits did he have that your husband didn't?

These questions accept the premise that the affair was about the AP and/or the BS. It wasn't. Affairs happen because of the WS and what's broken inside of them.

This doesn't mean that all betrayed spouses are perfect. We've seen some marriages here that were dumpster fires even before the added complication of infidelity. Nor does it mean that there can't be anything attractive about an AP. However, we've also seen really solid marriages, ones where there was truly no cause for complaint on the part of either spouse, savaged by infidelity. We've read countless cases where the BS was completely blindsided by the WS's manufactured justifications for cheating.

The reason we push WS to "dig for their whys" is that a healthy person, one with proper self-esteem and communication skills, does not choose an unethical, avoidant and cruel way of escaping their marital issues. They set boundaries -- counseling, treatment, measurable progress -- and if those aren't met, they decide whether to live honorably with those issues or to separate. The traits of an outside party are completely irrelevant.

If all it took to kill a marriage was the appeal of another person, then infidelity would be far more common than it already is.

These questions accept the premise that the affair was about the AP and/or the BS. It wasn't. Affairs happen because of the WS and what's broken inside of them.

Certainly, I agree that affairs are the WW's complete responsibility. But what I've observed is that often the WW either no longer is in love with or never was in love with the BS, and that made it easier for them to become infatuated with the AP and cheat. That clearly wasn't the case here, but it's something that was the case with my WW, and I've noticed it being the case with the WW's of many BS's on this site. It's sometimes clear they were always being used by the WW, and were never actually loved by them.

The WW's who accept responsibility and genuinely work toward fixing their marriages probably love their spouses, certainly. But if you read through the BS posts on this site, you'll find tons of posts by BS's who have incorrigible spouses/partners who clearly couldn't care less, either barely going through the R motions and pressuring the BS to rugsweep, or not even making a pretense of wanting to R at all. Some of them are outright emotionally abusive (separate from the issue of cheating being inherently abusive). That isn't love.

[This message edited by morningglory at 3:55 AM, Sunday, May 15th]

Based on what your husband shared here, his life-view, religious stance and his posts on his thread and others then he isn’t giving you a chance. He’s giving you false hope.

He was very explicit, consistent, and direct in his view of those that post in this forum (Wayward) and the advice they could offer if you were to post here. This was apparent in his first post here and reiterated in his next posts. Many of his posts both on his and other threads mentioned weakness of reconciling. As he so eloquently put it, he didn’t quite have the palate for shit sandwiches.

This site has never hidden its stance that reconciliation is possible – as is divorce – or that it was founded by a wayward person and many of it’s key-contributors are people that cheated on their spouses. People that according to your husband’s view are born sinful and incapable of change. In fact – based on how he expressed his views on this site and keeping in mind he claimed to have researched other sites many of us were surprised he chose SI to get advice on his situation, and even more surprised that he hasn’t been seeking guidance on other sites that claim to take a firmer stance on wayward people.
Just like you are in his eyes: A wayward. Born a wayward and will be a sinning wayward for life, no matter what you do. If that’s true, then there is no way he can ever see you as a wife. For him to accept you as his wife would require a total change in his beliefs and views. He can never see you as an equal or a partner, but as a faulty person who – since you are born this way and can’t change – will always be faulty.

Keep in mind that that’s based on how HE sees his religion, and not necessarily true or correct. Plenty of Christians on this site that have a stance that is more forgiving and more based on the Christian belief of redemption and repentance.

Plus giving you a chance to show change until the divorce hearing is unrealistic. Divorce is by its very nature confrontational. Even in amicable divorce there will always be issues that need compromise, and you are in no position to stand firm on what is legally and rightfully yours if you fear that stance might also cost you your marriage.

He’s giving you false hope. Maybe out of misguided kindness. For this marriage to reconcile there is a boatload of work you need to do, but IMHO even more that HE needs to do. That includes either ensuring reconciling with an unchangeable sinner is in accordance with his beliefs OR changing his beliefs. That includes changing his view that reconciling is weak and shows weakness OR changing his view on that. Do you realistically think a husband who thinks being with you is a sign of weakness and who – when he looks at you – sees a Jezebel that is and will always be a wayward can be the head of a family in a true Christian manner?

He doesn't believe people can't change, he's told me some of the things he said and that as well was one of them. He was is just furious this happened. If he said that that's why. We just believe in original sin as all Christians do, if others don't then he's not them. Something else he showed me on his thread about what he said about a person on here and how she changed and is proud to call her his sister in Christ and it gave him a little bit of hope even though he wrote that before he said he would give me a chance

Maybe it is false hope and that's why I asked my question on how to bring this up to him and not impose on his feelings if it's not false and he is looking to reconcile with me. I just don't want to deny his feelings.

We have talked a little about his feelings and what he thinks but he said he first and foremost he is scared and doesn't understand how I could love him, how he promised he would divorce but he doesn't know anymore, how he wants to hate me but he can't, how he empathizes with me and how I've destroyed my family.

Edited a bunch for clarity I'm not good at explaining things very well

[This message edited by Sakura2 at 4:48 AM, Sunday, May 15th]

He doesn't believe people can't change,

He stated so repeatedly on this site and was very adamant about it.

He stated so repeatedly on this site and was very adamant about it.

And he was deeply hurt and angry when he said that. Remember the family of origin trauma that molded him, followed by his wife's infidelity. It devastated him. But that doesn't mean that he can't be softening now, after the initial shock and rage has worn off, and willing to forgive. He's a Christian, and Christians value forgiveness.