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Good Morning

I was hoping those of you who have had a legal separation could chime in and provide some advice and input. My S originally planned to divorce during her affair in 2020/21. Then March/April 2021 she decided to stay because "The number don't make sense." She started making more than I do a couple years ago. Then June she said "Sign a post nuptial agreement or else I'll file for divorce or legal separation." She refused to work on the marriage and I refused to sign so she filed the day before she received a 13% raise. Fast forward to early 2022, she found a lawyer who claims her demands would be met and I still refused to sign said agreement so we started the separation proceedings.

Of course, she blames me for every problem in our relationship and I have been one to accept responsibility and blame even when it is not mine, I'm working on that. Her affair during and aftermath is a clusterf#ck, she still works with the AP and communicates with him regularly.

Her original demands were that we split retirements. The she insisted we split income as well, then she insisted she not be liable for spousal support. We met with the court appointed advisor this week. After this meeting she now says she will accept 50/50 split on our retirement and that is it. The advisor even said, "Why don't you two divorce? You're going to live together for 10 more years to raise your daughter?" I know that's what I SHOULD do but I just can't break my daughter's heart.

My question is this, has anyone had a legal separation document/decree that dictates how shared expenses were spent? I make a good living but she now makes about 2000-2500 more than I do monthly, yet we share all expenses equally. If we were to divorce, she would be liable for child support to even out income but in our current scenario, she stands to gain a lot more than I do because I am footing half of the bill and she is free to spend her excess how she wants. As it stands, I'm not sure I can make all of my personal monthly bills in addition to ur 50/50 shared costs.

Has anyone been through something similar to this? I don't want to be a slave for the next 10 years. I've sacrificed so much for this woman and yet she blames me for the failed marriage. Any input is greatly appreciated and I'm happy to elaborate on any details needed.

Thanks.

Flaco

Do people who are separated (legally or otherwise) typically continue to live together????? (I'm aware of In-House separations, but I think of those as temporary situations until one or the other gets enough together to be able to move out.)

If you are continuing to share a household (for the sake of the children? there *are* other ways to look out for their interests!), then there needs to be a separate account set up from which to pay shared household expenses, to which each house-mate contributes to equally, or if it can be agreed, each house-mate contributes proportionally to their income.

In my case, for the time being, we are looking at staying together for the kids. I know it is stupid, every single person I have talked to about this says divorce is the better option. If I were giving myself advice, I would say the same. I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar circumstance.

The issue is, if we were to divorce, she would likely need to spend around $800 monthly (or more) on child support to equalize our incomes. If we separate, I'm not sure the same is possible. I plan to run this by my lawyer but every email response from them is $$$ which is why I was hoping someone on here could chime in.

I'm not big on handouts, but I trusted in our marriage and I got blamed and burned for it. I know I wasn't perfect but I know I was not as bad as she makes me out to be and I have been the only one in 15 years who has asked and offered to work on things.

Since she has agreed to split retirement 50/50, now we will be looking at splitting debt. Our assets are fairly even. She is trying to say she will look at my premarital debt. She is also saying she may pay $1500 to have an assessment done to see what my "potential earnings" could be based on my level of education. I'm a public school teacher and I make a good living. Since I only work 70% of the year, she is claiming I need a better job and that she should not be responsible for equalizing expenses. For most of our relationship I have made more money than she has and never shamed her or demanded she seek a promotion. In fact I have supported her through the processes as well as various degrees she has sought.

I just feel like I'm going to be a slave for the next 10 years while she has plenty of spending money to do as she pleases. I've always given in and gone along with things she wanted to do. As you can see, it did me no good. I've seen her unhappy and asked her about it and she ignored my attempts to resolve whatever issues existed. Then she comes back and says I should have known. I've made multiple sacrifices for her. I feel like I'm being treated as if I've abused her, in reality it's probably the other way around. I just don't want to get screwed. Thanks.

I think in many jurisdictions, a legal separation and a divorce are essentially the same thing, the difference being that those who are legally separated cannot marry somebody else (they can date and live with someone else, just can't get legally married), while those who are divorced can legally marry someone else. But a legal separation still involves asset division, custody arrangements, spousal support and child support terms, just as a divorce would.

So as to remaining house-mates to jointly raise your children, it may not matter whether you are legally separated or divorced -- or just stay married but have a post-nuptial agreement that covers all the bases (if such is accepted in your jurisdiction).

Thanks Turtle.

That’s what I hope for.

Just thinking about your situation a little more -- sometimes the deal we are trying to do is so complicated, with many interacting parts, that it might be easier to break it out into two (or more) separate deals.

So in your case, this might entail (1) working out a divorce or separation agreement under the assumption that you are actually going to physically separate and live apart, and then (2) with the divorce/separation framework in place, work out a distinctly separate deal that covers what being house-mates entails (sharing of expenses, division of chores, etc...). Then if continuing to be house-mates isn't working out, you have the divorce or separation agreement already in place to fall back on... The idea here is that the custody arrangements and child support payments (etc...) shouldn't matter whether you happen to live together in the same house or in different houses (the living together in the same house being covered by a separate agreement).

Just further food for thought.

Yeah that was sort of my hope. I don’t agree with how she spends money but I’ve gone along with it for years trying to keep her happy. I don’t want to get sucked in or obligated to spending more money.

One thing I also need to work on is saying no, and I want something written up that states she is not allowed to do something on her own which obligates me physically or financially.

Here’s an example. She wants to paint the house. Her friend has scaffolding but will be using it in June so she says she wants us to paint the house Memorial Day weekend.

Our house is a mess, I try to clean and declutter but it’s always one step forward two steps back. I’ve told her multiple times I don’t want to start new projects until we live in a clean house. I also do all the yard work and pool work which is tiring and time consuming.

So I want something written that says she can not obligate me.

When she said she was going to stay she told me "me or the rv" and "I want to go to Hawaii". So I sold the rv. Literally the next day she tells me she wants our retirements separate. We still went to Hawaii. Then she says "I want to fix up the house". I started working on that.

I wish she had left and divorced like she said she would over a year ago.

I asked my stepdad if he had a paper trail on the inheritance gift I received after my great uncle passed which we used to pay for the RV.

Apparently when asking my uncle about it, my uncle mentioned to my stepdad that I never should have married her and he never trusted her.

I want to call him and ask him how did he know. What did he see or hear?

It has been a year since she ended the affair but without any remorse or acknowledgement, and actually punishing me financially, I’m still in this holding pattern.

Flaco

I want you to look really hard at your reasons for remaining in whatever form of "marriage" with this woman. Be it legally separated or married with a post-nup or whatever.
You mention the kids and breaking your daughter’s heart.

I call bull on that excuse…

The biggest impactor on the future family of your kids is their present family.

OK – I think the ideal family-form for a child is a two-parent, loving and adequately strict environment, where you eat fish at least once a week, finish off your dish, do chores, homework, make grades and… see a loving mother and father that respect each other, resolve issues and work together as a unit. Doesn’t hurt if the see dad sneak a kiss from mom or even fondle her bottom every now and then…
Mother/father can be replaced by mom/mom or dad/dad for all I care. Heck… a polyamorous multi-partner environment with lots of people minding and loving on the kids might even be best…
But I think that in our present society a loving and respectful mom and dad environment is BEST simply because that the norm for best.

It’s the loving and caring that make two better than one, not the two-factor.

Second best is a loving parent that does all the above. Irrepective of dad or mom.

The worst IMHO is the abusive home. Of course that could be physical abuse or alcoholism or whatever. But it can also be emotional abuse – where the kid realizes it’s getting some attention that the parents are not sharing with each other. Imagine you all three settling into the big couch with blankets and pop to watch a movie. Now imagine you in one end under one blanket, a big gap and wife in the other under her blanket. Kid scuttling between the two of you for a cuddle…

So when your kid grows up…
The environment it grew up in will be the model for the family they are searching for. Their parents will be the role-models for how they will behave in their family-environment.

Want your kids to grow up in an emotionally cold and sterile environment?
Want them to think a marriage needs a boardroom more than a bedroom?
Want them to be remembering their vows rather than the terms of their contract?
Think that they should be charging their spouses 65% for food, 32% for gas?

Your kids are 100% better off having loving parents working separately at parenting.
If your wife isn’t a good mom, your kids are better off having YOU as the good parent without their mom. If she’s a good mom, they will be better off having two loving parents – even if that love isn’t to each other or constrained in a failed marriage.

Sounds like the only reason she is staying is because she would lose out on divorce. She doesn't love or respect you. Made you sale rv and you still took her to Hawaii. I really hope you start thinking with your head.

@Bigger and Crank

You’re both right.

If we didn’t have kids it would be over.

She knows I’ll give in. That’s why I’m trying to find other leverage. She values money. Hopefully I can make that influence her.

I do wish you strength and peace. It seems like a rough way to live, but who am I to judge.

I think Crank and I are not giving you the same message…

I don’t know what is being implied by suggesting you think with your head. Usually, it refers to us men thinking with our genitals – as if sex with your wife is the issue. I might be way off here, but I don’t think you aren’t applying your brain to your situation – I think your reasoning and logic are wrong.

If we didn’t have kids it would be over.

Read my post. It’s PRECISELY because you HAVE kids that Im suggesting you don’t accept a quasi-marriage. It’s because of your kids that you want to create a loving and respectful environment. What your wife is offering right now is neither.

I think that if you refuse what’s being offered there is no automatic conclusion that this ends in divorce. Its likely – but it’s just as likely that your wife might wake up and see the daylight.

If you want to keep living with her, why not get divorced anyway? There is nothing that says that you cannot legally get divorced and stay living together. From what I have been told, a legal separation and a divorce are basically the same thing (i.e., the same amount of legal work, time, and expense). You would stay married for what? Better tax filing status?

Generally speaking, ignoring the problem (i.e., your bad marriage/relationship) only makes it worse. I see a legal separation as being a REALLY bad idea for you.

Your STBX (legal or not) is showing you who she is and you are not paying attention (and as others can tell you, I had the same problem -- so I empathize). She is a liar and a manipulator. You want to stay legally married to this person for what purpose? She cheated on you and she is now trying to bully and/or intimidate you to accepting an unfavorable divorce or legal separation... while treating you like a slave/pool boy/house painter.

Do you have an attorney? There is nothing to suggest that you are receiving legal counsel and you have some ideas that would make an attorney's head spin (imo). If you don't have an attorney, then please get one. We can comment all day, but honestly... the laws vary from location to location enough that most of our advice/commentary is useless.

My advice: (1) get an attorney, (2) listen to your attorney, (3) ignore your STBX; she's toxic.

Assuming that you and her can agree to 50% custody, she will likely be required to pay some child support. Your agreement should include language that makes it clear how kid-related expenses are funded. My guess is that you wouldn't get alimony based on your comment that you already make good money, but you really need an attorney's input on that. And here is the thing... even if you probably wouldn't get alimony, as a minimum... you could use the threat of alimony as a bargaining chip to get her to capitulate on something else that you want.

She refused to work on the marriage and I refused to sign so she filed the day before she received a 13% raise.

The fact that she filed the day prior to receiving a raise would have no impact on a divorce in my location. In fact, my divorce was finalized on Feb 1, 2021... which I appealed. I mostly lost my appeal, but I won a tiny bit of the appeal... leading the appellate court to remand the calculations for child support back to the district court. We just actually settled last week, but the new child support calculations in our agreement use my xWW's salary as of January 1, 2022 because she recently received a large raise (more than 13%). That is, my xWW got a raise after our divorce was finalized and our new agreement took that into account (and according to the mediator, there was zero chance that the judge would have ignored her raise).

Thanks guys. Yes I have a lawyer. I have sent her an email about all of this.

I’m trying to come to terms with this.

I got Legally Separated but realize I should have just filed for D. If the X decides to remarry he can D me. We are also physically separated I think that's a must once you get to this point, it's too hard on everyone to live in that tense limbo state.

Yes we are physically separated, we have not been intimate since before her affair.

We have a date set for contentions to the court on June 24, settlement July 11 and ruling July 19.

She seemed surprised when the court appointed facilitating attorney mentioned she still may be liable for child support even if we stayed in the same house. She also told him "I don’t think spousal support is warranted." He did not respond. I’m sure he had seen similar scenarios before.

She made some calculations and estimates that since I’m a teacher, I only work about 68% as much as she does. Her numbers are wrong but it’s another attempt to emasculate me.

I recognize this is not a great environment for our kids. Up to this point I have remained kind and cordial to her for the sake of our family. Now when she is around I am indifferent and numb. I think we need to tell the kids at some point we are having problems. At least then they know this is not the way a marriage should work. They probably already know on some level.

I’m still waiting to hear from the attorney.

[This message edited by Flaco at 2:38 PM, Wednesday, May 25th]

I recognize this is not a great environment for our kids. Up to this point I have remained kind and cordial to her for the sake of our family. Now when she is around I am indifferent and numb. I think we need to tell the kids at some point we are having problems. At least then they know this is not the way a marriage should work. They probably already know on some level.

For your kids sakes I would push for full divorce and dividing the household. It's better to have at least one happy home and parent that just one miserable one. You really don't want to remain in even a business relationship to someone who dispises you and values money over everything else.

Thanks Grubs.

I know that’s the right the thing to do. Thats the best thing to do. It’s the advice I’d give someone else in my shoes. I just hope I can do it.

A year ago she was drafting up a plan for a post nuptial agreement. I was very tempted to sign that just to keep the peace. I’m glad I didn’t but I knew not signing it would make her behavior towards me even worse. I was right.

But that right there is all the proof I need(ed).