SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m about 1.5 years into R and my WW has been what you would call a model WS. She’s done everything you could really ask for and it’s helped me recover. My anger and pain these days are primarily focused on the AP.

The AP is 45 so he’s about 15 years older than my WW and he was in sales and as you can imagine he was quite good at manipulating my WW. Unlike a lot of AP’s that are cheating on their partner, this man was already divorced and has a fiancé after a badly failed marriage he previously had years ago (not from cheating).

He thinks of this like a game. Women are objects. Can I make them orgasm, squirt etc. he had multiple women at a time (I know from WW). He was fucking multiple married women without a care.

Why am I constantly angered? My WW was in a really hard place in life and he knew it. He knew she was fresh bait and wanted to manipulate her to keep cheating (she took responsibility for her end of this). I also cannot do anything. He knows where my WW works bc she stupidly left a folder from her company in her car and he saw.

He told her that if me or her told his fiancé about this he’d email her board of directors (she reports to them) whose contact info is listed on the company website and ruin her career. I also know his address bc his stupid ass wanted her to go there instead of a hotel at first (which she says she absolutely did not do and I believe her).

So I’m stuck. I can’t do anything and I constantly get so angry. I literally want to go to this man’s house and beat the hell out of him.

I’m a peaceful person by nature but honestly I’ve tried using this anger at the gym but that’s only helped a little. I guess I’m just stuck and struggling and really need advice.

Maybe?

Tell your wife to get another place to work - then spill beans everywhere. Maybe get a PI to find out about a couple other "married" women and inform their spouse? (It is worth the $$$ to assuage some of your anger?)

Maybe have some long conversations with someone who will listen and help you put the anger away. Life isn't fair and this is one of the most UN-fair things that can happen to someone.

Not sure but I think this sort of thing was part of the reason dueling was outlawed in the US.

Unless the AP was a friend or a relative 100 % of your anger should be directed towards your wife. She's the one who stood in front of those you loved, the ones she loved and swore to forsake all others. The AP didn't swear to that! Your WW chose to forsake her vows so she could squirt!

Your wife reports to BOD's surely she is aware of some high powered legal advice to address the AP's threats.

Sorry man but you have to make a stand, she brought this on she needs to address it!

I agree with Rocko, this falls squarely on her shoulders. She betrayed you and she needs to take 100% of the responsibility. Just know this guy is the bottom of the barrel men.

he was quite good at manipulating my WW.

And

My WW was in a really hard place in life and he knew it. He knew she was fresh bait and wanted to manipulate her to keep cheating

This is minimizing either by you or your W has sold you on this. She knew he was a player and played right along with him.

You need to expose him to his fiancé and any other BH you can find. His threats are a bluff and if he does go through with it, it’s consequences and they fall squarely on your WW.

She has a lot more work to do. There are no short cuts you need to hold her feet to the fire.

Are you seeing an IC?
The anger isn't healthy. For you and your marriage, if you are going to reconcile accepting that it happened and moving beyond it is the important actions. Extreme anger at AP is typically a sign of transference of anger towards the WS to the AP. AP is always just a slug that the WS uses to cheat. AP is a distraction to R. If it wasn't him it would have been another. Don't give them anymore power over your life. Work through this with your IC, IOW. Getting revenge or keeping AP from "getting away from it" isn't going to help your M as much as you think.

He told her that if me or her told his fiancé about this he’d email her board of directors (she reports to them) whose contact info is listed on the company website and ruin her career.

Do you actually know that he said that? That is a somewhat desperate threat. He has no idea her relationship to the board. What is he going to tell them? That she seduced him? Other lies that are out of character for her? Is her career more important than her M? Personally, I'd be torn between just putting AP behind me and being pissed enough at the threat to call him on it. Not really going to fix your marriage but if you feel you need to, do it.

Hippo and Rocki have this right.

Rocko & Tanner & Grubs brought up some pertinent considerations.

However - it is hard for many men (and I'm one) to not have our basic animal instinct urge to protect our territory.

I'm sure a few cavemen met their end by other than natural causes when poaching or attempting to poach another's mate.

Since most of us consider ourselves 'civilized' - we have made such base actions illegal. And, your position would never have occurred had wifey had better boundaries.

Maybe go to the gym and pound the hell out of a punching bag. Or split a cord of wood by hand. Exercise tends to ameliorate anger at stuff.

It is my belief that when we fear hating our wayward spouses (for whatever reason--they are our main support system, we don't want to be alone, we think they would give up the M and leave us, whatever) then we obsessively hate the AP. When we actually do hate our waywards, consider D, feel disgusted and in general, can't find our love for them anymore, we think less about the AP because our rage has a home in our spouse.

Our fury at the powerlessness of the betrayal, our rage that it has happened and we can't make it unhappen, HAS TO be felt. It. Has. To. Be. Felt.

The problem is that there is no longterm benefit to you in raging and blaming in the AP's direction. It stalls your healing. Even if you get some sort of payback and do blow up the AP's life, it won't give you the relief you expect. Because there is no relief for the hurt, just a gradual lessening over time. That's what we mean when we say here that there is no way around this, just through. You feel feelings until they don't want to be felt anymore, but how do you feel them toward an AP who is not present nor part of your M and daily heartache? You can't. It's pointless and unproductive.

But the person who actually stabbed you in the back and broke your heart, they ARE present.

Can you, when the obsessive thoughts of AP hit you, tell yourself, "But this asshole was only let into my life to abuse me by that woman right there, my supposed partner. She did not protect me. She let this person humiliate me." Can you intentionally remind yourself who actually did this to you and direct your anger where it can and should be felt?

I know it's terrifying because then who will you talk to, who will you watch tv with, what will you do if she resents your anger and leaves or finds a new AP? This is what you must accept to respect yourself. You must accept this and feel your feelings toward her anyway.

In my opinion, this is where true reconciliation is possible (no guarantees). When the BS puts their rage and blame everyday toward the person that broke their heart, when they risk alienating their wayward with their constant distance and detachment, when the M is actually on the line and feels like it may end, when the BS starts creating their own identity away from the M, THAT'S when the wayward feels the consequences, reality, and loss. Angry words are not the same. They have to feel your hate (not abuse, just your detachment). And feel how you are changed from this. And that they actually may lose you.

And that's when they need to step up and take it while they work to win you back.

When this dynamic plays out, it:

1. Demonstrates authentic and honest expression of betrayal

2. Shows that the BS respects themselves

3. Establishes that the BS is rightfully capable of exiting the M for this disrespect and may actually do it

4. Let's the WS experience true consequences (not just angry conversations which are not consequences)

When living this way, the AP does not register much on the mind. It is fleeting hatred rather than obsessive hatred. But are you capable of putting your hatred where it belongs?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:50 AM, Sunday, December 4th]

I'm okay with hating on the AP, but it can't be obsessive. One way of tackling this is making sure that you involve your WS in the same thought stream as the AP.

--The AP was a player, but my wife....who was supposed to protect ME AND OUR MARRIAGE....was with him every step.

--THE AP inserted himself into MY life, but my WS inserted herself into his FIANCE'S life.

--My wife should be hated by the AP's fiance as much as I hate the AP.

.....and so on.

My despising of the AP in my situation has nothing to do with 'manipulating' my wife. My issue is that people in society...in my opinion...have the responsibility to be moral, productive people. He took what wasn't his(no, I am not claiming my wife to be 'property') for his own personal enjoyment. For that, he can reap whatever consequences come his way. The primal part would have preferred that it came from me, but I'm not going to that level. He can either work on being a better person, or continue to be a scumbag....with all pleasantries that go along with that.

Why would your WW's board of directors care that she had an affair? Does her contract have a morals clause? Otherwise, that threat sounds like bravado from a man who knows that he has a lot more to lose than she does.

You can't blame others for the actions your WW chose to do.

No one forced her, she wasn't assaulted.

Anger is fine but you say concerning things like he manipulated her and such which means your wife is lacking full accountability.

It sounds more like you are being manipulated by the story being told by your WW.

Have you tried IC?

Thanks for the responses. A lot of great feedback.

To answer some questions, yes I am in IC and MC. Yes my wife said he was manipulative (he tried to push polyamory hard) BUT she has said that’s no excuse for her actions. And she’s shown deep remorse about that.

She’s going to IC for her own feelings of feeling used and hurting her own family like this. Even hurting her self and dealing with the shame.

I went to IC right after positing this and we discussed it. He said my problem was feeling that the AP got off clean and will never face consequences for his actions. That even though my wife has been remorseful and done her part, the AP not having his relationship rocked like mine is hurting me bc everyone loses but him.

My IC said a lot of what everyone here has said. I found it interesting that he told me that these people always suffer in the end bc hedonism is never a long term way to live. He’ll age out of this and at some point want real love which he clearly doesn’t have with his fiancé since he’s constantly cheating on her with no remorse.

It was interesting how confident my IC was about that so I asked him why and he said he’s seeing multiple men over 60 who have lived that way and now are severely depressed bc of that lifestyle and it was a similar story.

The AP’s fiancé is a 31 year old who he’s manipulated into not wanting kids bc his kids are all over 18 and he doesn’t want that anymore. We all know that won’t last and this woman will want kids so she’ll break up with him to achieve that bc it’s a dead end rd. Then it will be a sad life for him.

You guys are right that AP anger is unhealthy. I guess this is just another hurdle I’m trying to get through to put this shit sandwich behind me so it doesn’t affect the rest of my life

The AP’s fiancé is a 31 year old who he’s manipulated into not wanting kids bc his kids are all over 18 and he doesn’t want that anymore. We all know that won’t last and this woman will want kids so she’ll break up with him to achieve that bc it’s a dead end rd. Then it will be a sad life for him.

You know, another reason why BS's often choose to inform the other betrayed spouse is that we feel a sense of moral responsibility when we know that someone is being manipulated like that. It sounds to me like maybe part of the reason this is sticking with you is that underneath any punitive inclinations you might have, there's a concern about this young woman who's being suckered in by a player.

I think if I were you, I'd just tell the guy's finance and let the chips fall where they may. This guy's threats are basically blackmail, and if he follows through, I'd contact an attorney and see what measures can be taken. If your WW needs to change careers though, that's part of the consequences. The alternative is asking YOU to ignore your conscience, and that's just not acceptable.

You seem to have it in your mind that it's all about punishing this guy, but maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe your conscience is hurting you because you know what you know and that young woman might be losing her fertility window to a cheating con artist.

I too wonder at the impact of the threat of letting the board of directors know.
How can he wreck her career?
Heck… if there is even an inch of truth in that then maybe it’s better to beat him to it, and your wife let them know of the affair and the OM’s threats.

Maybe part of your hate is a feeling of weakness… of thinking the OM still has control. After all – if the threat of letting the board know is such a big, effective threat he could possibly wave that around to get other things. Or send them an email just for the fun of it.

Consider taking back your power. If part of that power is letting his fiancé know – then do it.
Or maybe part of that power is to really evaluate the threat and maybe realize it’s simply hot air.

I know it irks you that you feel the OM got off with no consequences.

I worked for a toxic boss for 10+ years. I saw him lie and cheat employees out of $ etc. he took out fraudulent PPP loans, "borrowed" $ from a client that he will never repay etc.

In the end, he lives a life of constantly covering his tracks.

Same for the serial cheaters. They are constantly living with the stress and anxiety of being exposed. Sadly your wife had an affair with a master manipulator.

He is not "manipulating" his current gF into not having kids. If she REALLY wants kids, she will find someone else. If she really wants him, she will accept his "terms".

It stings mightily that the OM was/is as big a jerk as he is. However the day you stop caring is the day you lift that huge weight off your shoulders and start feeling like you are healing.

I don’t necessarily see a need to be not angry with the OM. However – if your anger is constantly triggering you or is spending a lot of time in your thoughts… well… you are allowing OM a lot of control on your daily life.

I have shared the extended version so many times so I’m going for the condensed version:
A former business partner caused me serious financial damage, leading to me living a life of borderline poverty despite having a good income (working 2-3 jobs). Every morning I would wait for my ride to my job and look over the bay to the house this guy lived in, thinking about how much I hated him. I would jump into my colleagues car and more-often-than-not start grumbling about the b@stard that left me with a ton of debt. One day the colleague pointed out that I was grumpy most mornings until noon and that this was out-of-character for me. He asked me why I allowed that guy to still control my emotions.

That was a light-bulb moment for me. Next morning while waiting for my ride I looked over the bay and thought "poor guy, sold his integrity, honor and values for some measly amount" and instead of feeling hate I started feeling pity for him.
Pity is not a good feeling… It can morph into compassion and if the one you feel pity for is close or takes action to change you can use that compassion to help make change. But if you feel pity for someone and that person doesn’t change… the pity turns into disdain. You can’t respect – and therefore not fear – something that you feel disdain for.
It took me maybe a week of looking over the bay and thinking "poor guy" before he no longer caused me to be angry every morning.

On the karma and payback issue: Over 25 years later I had a part in him being refused a manager-job at the company I work for now. When my boss asked me if I knew this guy from the same city as I come from I shared my experience, removing him as a candidate.

The anger? Not the same as forgiveness. If I met that man begging for water in the desert I wouldn’t even spit in his direction. But I wouldn’t go into the desert to search for him either. He’s a non-issue to me on a daily basis.

I'm not sure that anger at the OM is a misdirected emotion. There is, in my opinion, a therapeutic function in having a righteous anger at the OM. However, how do you cope with these feelings, when you discover after a lapse of decades that your wife was having an affair with this serial philanderer so long ago, and furthermore the SOB had the nerve to die 15 years ago? Yes, I had suspicions, mostly from subtle and some quite patent changes in her behavior and demeanor, but the A was so well hidden, in every other aspect that when it was over, my relationship resumed with my WW and my feelings were buried under the daily grind of making a living, my growing business requiring so much attention. Do I now feel, that if he wss still alive, I would confront him? Would I be able to resist the urge to harm him in some way? I don't really know, but I am certain in my mind that I would have alerted his wife and also petitioned the state medical licensing board to have his license to practice medicine revoked for moral turpitude, one of the then enumerated causes for loss of license in California. I'm pretty sure I would not stalk him with a sidearm like someone alluded to in a post here somewhere on SI, but I do get a measure of satisfaction that Karma, even though she wss late to the party, caught up with him, and an aggressive form of prostate cancer started eating away at him, enfeebled him and probably tormented him for about three years before death took him at the young age of 67. Am I still angry at my wife? Not much really, except when occasionally triggered, she has been exemplary in her doing everything a WW should do to help me heal. Her stated biggest regret is not coming clean with me decades earlier.

I like the balance presented earlier by JB3199. I do think the posom is a serial homewrecker and it is fine to despise that behavior. It hurts all of us in a way, he's essentially betraying our whole societal construct. If someone in your family leaves the garage door wide open over night and a thief comes in, it's ok to be angry with the family member and the thief, isn't it? Him sleeping with your wife and then threatening you is a bit too much to tolerate. It pisses me off and I dont even know you.

Consequences are coming his way, sooner or later. There may yet be a way to help the karma bus to his door. I agree with more consideration about telling his fiance. Is your wife's job an amazingly high paying one she could not replace if lost? You could seek legal counsel or police advice about his threat and present that warning to him right when you tell his fiance.

Spiritually, the best way is to be able to see he is weak, immoral and have sympathy for him. No real love in his life is something very real to have sympathy about. But consequences and alerting his fiance to his terrible behavior are not revenge in my book.

I read your story, and I felt powerless when you described the threat om made against your W. I felt powerless - even though I'm not in your sitch. Then Bigger wrote 'blackmail'.

My W was kept in her A partly via blackmail. The ow even made threats against me and our son. I saw the problem with giving in to blackmail immediately on d-day, and I called my W's supervisor within minutes of learning about the threats. It's not that I wasn't scared of the threats; I was certainly scared. But the consequences of giving in to continuing demands from the blackmailer was even scarier. (BTW, ow carried out none of her threats.)

Have you considered asking your W to come clean with her board? Has she considered it?

In any case, you know your anger is a problem, and recognizing a problem is the first step in solving it.

I'd be calling up the fiancé and telling her exactly what happened for two reasons.

First off, he's gonna blackmail you into silence? Are you kidding me?! Nope, if he didn't want his fiancé to find out then he should have kept it in his pants. He brought this mess into your life and now feels he can continue to control your life? Hell no.

Secondly, my heart goes out to his fiancé. She's agreed to having no children because she believes she is going to marry a man that is faithful and loyal to her. I was like her. I gave up the possibility of children for a man I was in love with. I didn't know then just how much I would end up regretting that decision. You can save her that regret by letting her know exactly what type of man he is.