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BOA I wish what you were describing was somewhat rare but sadly it isn’t. You don’t have to read too many threads around here until you see a recurring theme: the blind-sided BS who thought they were in a happy/decent M, only to have their world blown up by a cold uncaring WS. Leaving a devastated BS to ponder: what happened? You might do some reading on narcissist discard to see if it seems to fit his behavior. Some WS are not only supremely selfish but also very good actors and liars. They are able to move on in an instant when the facade falls. But really as a faithful person you we can never know the mind of a cheater.

It's an odd sort of comfort that I'm not alone in this. I can sort of understand a ONS or a brief affair, what I cannot understand is the year(s) of deceit. Why bother with it all? How could I have missed something so awful just underneath the surface of the person I spent all my time with?

Wanted to add something positive for once, I now have all the utilities in my name and to auto-pay from my new checking account. The other positive is I've been worried what I would do if my car broke down and I didn't have WH to help, so I signed up for AAA! Feels good to do something proactive rather than just being a ball of anxiety.

Hooray! So glad you have a positive update!

You okay, BallofAnxiety?

Hopefully you are just reading…

Sorry! My internet is slow and didn’t load too many of the last few posts.

You are receiving the BEST advice on here. These folks are amazing!

I thought you'd have the WH staying out all hours, coming home with lipstick on the collar, unexplained purchases, etc. It didn't look like any of that. It looked like it always had, except he was just a ghost sitting in my living room and I had no idea.

You bring up something that is important, infidelity can and does look like the above, its usually when the WS is at a point where they just don't care to hide it and their mask has fallen off. And it is still horribly painful and disrespectful to a BS to live thru and deal with.

What you describe above is what many have gone thru on here, the hidden cheater. The one who is so good at hiding it that the BS just did not pick up on it. And they live 2 separate lives and sometimes it has been going on for quite awhile and the BS just had no clue, until a few hints here or there start to show up and a BS starts to question things.

I had a WS similar to yours, meaning he was home all the time if not at work, I felt I knew everything about him, I was the one who took care of pretty much everything, I worked professionally and had a good job, etc.... until it all blew up. And the hardest part was sitting there thinking of how in the heck this all happened and I did not know?

And then thinking about HOW LONG it had been going on, all the little moments in between where he seemed so normal to me, thru holidays and vacations etc... and he was lying the whole time. I just could not wrap my head around it, in fact it took me quite a long time to come to any kind of acceptance, not sure really if I still quite have, but just sitting there knowing how easily they lie....

Towards the end, before he got caught, I did start seeing the dead look in this eyes, the sort of "check out" in his personality, the fake persona, the fake smile, those kind of things, that would be what I call towards the end of his fake life where his mask was starting to slip, but I would say I did not have any clue before all this, and how long he had been living another life. It is gut wrenching and painful.

BOA,
What a great step forward to take care of yourself. You can continue to use this postive step as a template: you identified a fear/concern, figured out a way to address it and give yourself some comfort in that area, and took action. Go you!!!

...what I cannot understand is the year(s) of deceit....How could I have missed something so awful just underneath the surface of the person I spent all my time with?

It's really common to struggle with this and want to blame ourselves with "How could I have been so blind and foolish?" thinking. Yet the answer to "How could I have missed something so awful?" is this:

You missed it because he worked SO hard to hide it from you. He put lots of time and energy into deception to ensure he was doing what he wanted and getting what he wanted, because that is the kind of flawed person he is.

We join with people we believe we can trust...until they show us otherwise.

His deceit and betrayal are on him. It wasn't your job to police him or to constantly act from a place of distrust.

With that said, the next issue we all have to wrestle with is to know that there are people like WSs out there--people who will work hard to internally justify betrayal to themselves and who will work hard to hide it from their committed partners--people who will put their own needs first, even when the result is so destructive to themselves and others.

So is it worth thinking about missed signs and red flags, in order to spot them earlier next time? Sure.

Is it worth it to beat ourselves up over missed signs and red flags? No way. That blame lies on WS's doorstep.

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 11:47 AM, Thursday, February 23rd]

I related so much to everything you said, Reality. We 'celebrated' our 15 year anniversary in October with a trip to Ireland; a trip I had waited my whole life to take. We had an amazing time, at least I thought so, so now I keep thinking how did he hide it so well?

On the other hand, I had started to notice little things, the mask slipping as you say. He was noticeably less patient with the pets, seemed uncomfortable if I touched him, and was not trying as hard to be pleasant around other people. I noticed these things at the time but attributed them to stress, work, mid-life crisis shit, basically anything other than what it turned out to be, an A.

@BB
You are 100% correct. I keep reminding myself I couldn't see it because it was so outside of my character I never even considered it AND bc he was actively lying and gaslighting me, so he hit me coming and going. It's just hard to wrap my mind around being so completely and totally wrong about a person. In my job I have to use my judgment and insight all the time, including having people lying to my face, and determine the correct course of action. If I was that wrong about someone so close, how can I be right about people I know less well?

I'm feeling a little, tiny bit better today. I know this too shall pass, but am enjoying a respite even if it is brief. I know the real anger is still coming, I've only felt a bit of it and I have traditionally had a temper, so I know it's coming.

One thing I still haven't decided about is whether to tell WH's employer. My lawyer is drafting a letter as she thought it would be better coming from her than me and I agree, but I haven't decided if I will send it or not. Some of the reasons I have for not wanting to send it are:
-He's paying alimony so I don't want him to lose his job
-I'm worried it will make me look petty, like an angry, jealous ex
-It will provide evidence that he was right to have an A and leave me
-I want to hold the possibility of litigation and discovery of his bad behavior over his head until we have a finalized divorce

What do you all think?

-He's paying alimony so I don't want him to lose his job
-I'm worried it will make me look petty, like an angry, jealous ex
-It will provide evidence that he was right to have an A and leave me
-I want to hold the possibility of litigation and discovery of his bad behavior over his head until we have a finalized divorce

I think your first and fourth reasons for holding back are practical and valid. Your second and third reasons are basically just fretting over other people's opinions, and that's just your anxiety talking. Your WH's opinion no longer signifies, right? And neither would the opinion of any other judgy looky-loos who might happen upon the scene. What's important here is you having your own back so to speak. You do have a hero in your corner and that hero is YOU. Protecting yourself by making sure that your alimony payments are coming in and that you have some bargaining power at the divorce table are just practical ways of being that hero.

If it hasn't been recommended yet, there's a great book called The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. This reminds me of her "Big/Little" exercise, where you would imagine yourself as a very small child and also as an adult who protects and cares for that child. The child is free to talk about her feelings in a stream-of-consciousness sort of way, while the adult comforts and listens. It sounds really dissociative and sketchy, I know. But in practice, this one exercise helped me more than I would have thought possible.

Thanks, CT. That does help sort it out a little. I don't have to make a decision today so I guess I'll keep ruminating on it.

I just downloaded the Journey from Abandonment... today! I just completed Cheating in a Nutshell.

Having your WH take a financial hit ( and secure your future) with the alimony is probably a smarter thing to do.

As for consequences there is that 20 yr age gap between the AP and your WH that will start to matter eventually. She gets to take him to all his screening appointments , pick up viagra prescriptions, work through his ED. All the lust will gather dust !

How do you feel after completing Cheating in a Nutshell? Was it helpful for you? (I reread that one a month or two later…to remind me that I would regret any R, and that it would be a waste of more precious years, where I could be HAPPY instead.)

I really liked Cheating in a Nutshell. It explained a lot of what I'm feeling in ways that made sense. It also explained why so many of us here from different backgrounds, ages, even countries all have essentially the same experience/reaction to Dday.

I am coming around a little bit on being glad he doesn't want to R. It hurts a lot and feels like it reinforces the idea he did this because I'm not good enough and unlovable, which deep down I've always suspected, but on the other hand I feel a clarity I don't think I'd have 4 weeks in if I was trying to choose.

The thing that is bothering me atm is he gets to tell his own bullshit story and people will believe him because it fits the common wisdom and provides a false sense of safety in the listener. What I mean is this:

Common Wisdom
Commonly held wisdom in our society states people cheat when they are in unhappy or unsatisfying relationships with partners who don't fulfill their needs; the unhappiness precedes the cheating. Have you ever seen a movie where a person is happy in their marriage and then cheats? Part of the problem with this model (aka unmet needs) is it places some to all the blame on the BS, implying if only the BS had acted/said/looked differently the cheating would not have happened. Before this happened to me I believed this to be true. Why? It provided a sense of control and safety.

False Sense of Safety
Human beings are programed to see patterns and we find safety in situations where something awful happened to a person, but it is different from our circumstances so our results will not be the same. For example, after my mom died many people asked me how she died. When I told them lung cancer they would ask if she smoked. After I told them yes I could see them visibly relax after doing the mental calculations of, my loved one doesn't smoke, therefore they won't die of anything, but especially not lung cancer.

So, when people hear of someone cheating it is in their own best interest to believe the stories of an unhappy relationship/unmet needs because it provides them protection from worrying the same thing could happen in their relationship.

All of that to say I know WH is telling everyone we didn't have sex (partially true, he didn't try), he felt I was disappointed in him/didn't like him (not true until the A), criticized him (not true, also never said anything about this until after Dday), we were more like roommates and best friends than spouses (WTF does that even mean? after 15 years of marriage we were lucky we were best friends), etc. Then, he'll say, "I know having the A was wrong and I should have left my relationship with BOA first." As if the only thing he did wrong was do things out of order.

And then, the worst part is, most people will buy that line of thinking because it's easier and prevents them from looking at their own relationships. This bothers me so much because they will think I'm pathetic, deserved to have this happen, he was just chasing his own happiness, etc. I know I can't control his narrative, it just makes me so upset knowing people will believe his crap, people I used to consider friends.

For people who know you, the truth is already known. Anyone else who believes his bullshit can just jump off. You don’t need them in your life anyway.

BOA I don’t think you are wrong that many people buy the narrative that people cheat because they are unhappy in their M’s. Unthinking people buy a lot of bullshit. I do disagree that this necessarily translates into people you know and care about believing you are pathetic and unlovable. People that matter to you know better. And most people don’t think much about the narrative spouted by the cheater. The whole topic makes people uncomfortable and they don’t want to think about it at all. "Yeah, sure, you were unhappy, whatever." What’s important is that you understand that people cheat all the time because they are broken. It happens to celebrities, billionaires, royalty, and in deliriously happy M’s. You can’t control his lies and rationalizations to others. You can never control the ignorant assumptions of others. But you can smile and take pride when you look at yourself in the mirror, that you upheld your wedding vows and acted with integrity. You decide how and to what extent you want to expose his infidelity. It’s up to you. If asked a simple: " He lied to me on our wedding day" suffices nicely. The further along you get from his betrayal the better it gets. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:40 PM, Friday, February 24th]

Commonly held wisdom in our society states people cheat when they are in unhappy or unsatisfying relationships with partners who don't fulfill their needs; the unhappiness precedes the cheating.

Yeah, I buy that, BUT ... when a friend was in so much pain that he shared what he was going through shortly after he discovered his W's A, my immediate thought was that his W was a lousy persons.

IOW, my heart and head went into my friend's corner, even though I had previously bought into the common 'wisdom'. To the extent that I DID think his W had unmet needs, I concluded immediately that those needs were illegitimate.

My friend quickly learned who his friends were, and I think you will, too - and you'll make new friends. My friend's teenage daughter stuck with him, not so BTW.

*****

ETA: Many people cheat when they are in happy marriages. Shirley Glass argues that they do so if they have lousy boundaries. That describes my W, and through the years, other members have stated the same about their WSes or themselves. That's far from conclusive, but it IS indicative, at least IMO.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:50 PM, Saturday, February 25th]

Have you ever seen a movie where a person is happy in their marriage and then cheats?

You know, I hadn't really thought of it until you brought it up, but yeah... this whole "unmet needs/blame the victim" thing is a relatively new concept in that light. Ever watch any old Doris Day rom-coms? Back in the 50's and 60's, the blame went more toward a "boys will be boys" mentality. The "unmet needs" fallacy has had something like forty or fifty years to grow, but it wasn't always rule of thumb. Personally, I don't think it will last much longer.

In terms of your STBX getting away with it?.. He can put out all the propaganda he wants and sure, people will nod their heads and go along if they have to put up with him, but in the end, karma is nothing more that bad choices coming home to roost. In ten years, that featherheaded OW is going to be 35 and stuck with a 55 year-old man who's showing his age. The downside of choosing someone who's young enough to be his daughter is that he's old enough to be her father. His mirror, his hairline, his sagging balls, etc. will continue to deny whatever lies he tells himself about that. More than that though, these are two people whose word is NOT their bond, and they know that about each other. Any time she's late getting home from an errand, he's going to wonder where she's been. Any time she finds a phone number on the bill she doesn't know, she's going to wonder who he's talking to.. because that kind of perfidy is a part of their history and they KNOW it. They can make up all kinds of stories to try and make their dirt more palatable but THEY KNOW THE TRUTH, even when they don't want to admit it. It lurks around every dark corner of their lives.

You're going to be okay. Really, you will be. Trust yourself. You are enough, and you've got this.

Oh and on the birthday thing. I can relate. His was about a month and a half after D-day…I TRIED to buy my STBXCH a card…even a funny one. Didn’t work. I found one with a skeleton on the front…inside, it said, "Don’t worry. You look good for your age!"—which was what the ONS stranger had said to him. I started crying snd left the store. When I told him that I tried to buy him a card and couldn’t, he was hurt. (Remember he suddenly became superhusband and wanted to reconcile….too little too late!) I explained my experience in the store and he better understood, but again, it WASN’T about ME. IIT WAS ABOUT HIM. Cheaters are selfish. He cared about how me not buying him a card made HIM feel—NOT how badly it made ME feel.

OMG, the damn card thing after infidelity. The gift that keeps on giving. My husband's affair was way back in 2001 and we are nicely reconciled, but holiday cards are STILL an issue for me. For years, I would stand there in front of the card rack rejecting card after card. "You've always been there for me!"...NOPE! "I can always count on you!"...NOPE! "You're the one I could always trust!"...NOPE! "You've always stood by me!"...NOPE! "I've loved every moment of being your wife!"...HELL NOPE!

Eventually, I started buying cards with no sentiment inside and wrote my own. Now, after 48 years of marriage, we just don't do cards anymore. As a couple, you're on a road. After infidelity, that road takes a hard left turn, even if you stay together, the path is altered...forever. Someone should put that on a card.

BallofAnxiety,
You are a VERY smart woman. The conclusions you have reached already put you WAY ahead of the game, in my opinion. You are working through things in your mind and it takes a lot of time (At 6 months from my D-day, I am nowhere near healed! I am in a better headspace, however.)
You ARE lucky that your cheater is not tempted you with R. You don’t have the horrible decision to make: where the options are move along and try to be happy on your own (which you CAN and WILL), or TRY to become someone and something that you may hate just so that you can pretend this never happened in your relationship. Personally, I found that I would not be able to live with myself if I could somehow be able to contort myself into forgiving AND R. I have since forgiven, but R is NEVER going to happen.

You are doing great. Keep on keeping on.

Greenirisheyes,
I am so, so sorry and sad to hear this.
This is a HUGE reason why I could not R. I would NEVER be able to forget. EVERYTHING would remind me. NOTHING would ever be the same. Trust has been DEMOLISHED. In my opinion, one can never earn it back, and I would be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life. I know myself enough to know that I cannot live that way, and I CHOSE not to have my wounds reopened on a daily basis.

I wish peace for you.

I am coming around a little bit on being glad he doesn't want to R. It hurts a lot and feels like it reinforces the idea he did this because I'm not good enough and unlovable

I believe you will get to the point, in the near future, when you realize that you're very glad you didn't R. He did this because he was unloving and self-centered.

After some time had passed and I had some distance from discovering my H's affairs, I connected some dots about a pattern of self-centered behavior from my H that had been ongoing and also a pattern of avoidance (linked to being self-centered and self-protective). Prior to the affairs, the incidences of avoidance and self-centeredness seemed smaller to me and I excused them for various reasons, and, thus, I didn't see them as a larger part of his perspective and his way of dealing with the world.

By leaving you and trying to control the narrative in a way that blames you, your H will fail to address his issues. These issues will continue to not serve him in life. He'll likely find someone or something else to blame. But he's clearly not happy inside and seeking external validation. He won't break this pattern until he faces it.