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Newest Member: Anonymous1

Just Found Out :
New here. Need to share what has happened since DDay.

Topic is Sleeping.
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 HotPinkFlairPen (original poster new member #82968) posted at 11:39 AM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

DD was two weeks ago, on Feb 16, 2023.

WH came home late, woke me up and said, "I need to turn on the lights. I have something horrible to tell you."

I have flashed back to this moment many, many times.

WH only told me because the OW had been caught by her own BH. He admitted this right off the bat, he admitted that it was an EA and a PA. The Journey from Abandonment to Hope book refers to this stage as a shattering. I’m sure all BSs here can relate to the feeling of the world exploding with you in it.

The A had been going on for a month. I knew something was wrong. He was textbook: distant, disinterested in me emotionally and physically. He didn’t take care of our twin sons (not even 2 yet) nor our pet. My only respite was that our social calendar had really taken off--really for the first time since the birth of the boys. I self-identify as a "non-shy introvert." Normally weeks full of activities with others really wear me out, but the events, big and small, were very soothing. We had game nights with friends. Binge-watched tv shows. Went to concerts. I share this because the OW set up the majority of these gatherings. She had been pretty omnipresent in my life recently and seemed to really want to be my friend. She even invited me out on Valentine’s day--my only real indication that she and her spouse might not be doing so well. I now have to look back at this bright spot in my life with complicated feelings. I have said to many people in my support system: "She didn’t have to pretend to be my friend."

When he confessed, I was angry and I expressed it. It was incredibly therapeutic. WH has a fragile ego and I've had to present anything that could be construed as criticism with absolute care or he would become volatile, vindictive. I felt untethered to his ego, absolutely absolved of all responsibility for the care and the keeping of his feelings, and told him everything I'd struggled with through our marriage without a filter. He was childish. He was lazy. He couldn’t handle the responsibility of being a father. During sex, he made me feel like a masturbatory vessel. He was incurious, unimaginative. I interrogated him about the sex with the AP, and what on earth he was thinking. I asked vulgar questions. I called him names and told him he could go to hell.

We are American expats living overseas. Family is everything. Literally, everything. Our marriage status is tied to our visas, our housing; even our contracts (and the insurance, benefits they provide) are issued to us as a married couple, not as two individuals. Our friends are largely coworkers because our employee provides us with housing on a private compound. Even though I had behaved myself, I could lose everything. The boys are in free, world-class daycare that is on-site. I love my job. I love my coworkers. I have an incredible community around me and friends that have stood by me through the ups and downs like struggling to conceive, being pregnant with two giant babies, a birth that almost took my life, dealing with debilitating postpartum depression. And my WH, who clearly did not have the capacity to weather the storm of babies/toddlers, had done something supremely selfish that could make it all evaporate in an instant.

I had always told myself that I would leave if he cheated. Then again, I never, ever thought it would actually happen to me.

These last two weeks have been a marathon. I know that the "Newbies: Important Information" thread (beautiful thing that it is) says that it’s not a race. I had glossed over that the first time that I read through that post. Now it really resonates because I am so exhausted.

This has been very hard on my body. I sincerely have no appetite. If I force food down, it comes back up or goes through me. I have lost a pound a day. I’ve been managing with one/two bite portions at meals. I spoke with a nurse early on and she said I didn’t need to force feed myself. She promised the appetite would come back. I had been "Obese Class II" at the tail-end of my pregnancy (nope, we don’t need to derail the conversation with debates about BMI or why TF 30 pounds of baby/baby supporting fluids counts towards that number) but was on the verge of merely "Overweight" on DDay. The weight loss has gotten me into a healthier weight, but in an unhealthy way. I still can’t help but admire my reflection in the mirror. I look a lot younger. My pre-pregnancy clothes all fit again.

Oh. Let’s go back to the beginning again. I’m also exhausted because WH has gone to the US. My mom flew over to help, she’s here for a few more days, and I have a live-in nanny. My workplace is currently closed, and the amount of helpers in my home has been amazing. Still, the thought of being a single mom overseas is daunting. Toddlers are a force of nature. The nanny and I have been completely worn out after months of my WH being neglectful. I have wondered if my WH will ever come back or if he’s content to be a deadbeat dad and let his job (and therefore my job) go down the drain.

He's not here because he was medevac-ed to the USA. The day after DDay, I told WH that neither the nanny or I had gotten any sleep, so he needed to watch the boys for the second half of the day. The boys were crying in their cribs. I went to see why he wasn’t getting them out and found him trying to hang himself in the guest bedroom. I saved him. Well, I don’t know if I can say that, because I discovered that his feet were flat on the floor and he was completely in control of his air intake. He was also making loud gagging noises, which require air. This attempt on his life doesn’t ring true. When I realized he could stand, I stopped struggling against his weight and told him to stand up by himself. I didn’t call the police: suicide and its attempts are illegal here. I called my support system. They whisked him away and nobody bothered to update me on what was happening to him. I had to call around to get any information on the whereabouts and condition of my own husband. I’ve noticed a lot since then that people seem to err on the side of undercommunicating with me. It’s frustrating. Tell me too much. Give me agency to decide what I do/don’t need to know.

About 24 hours later, he had gone to a doctor for "suicidal ideation" (again, suicide is illegal here and he was advised to tread carefully) and the doctor still wanted to admit him. Therein lay another problem. Another secret he’d been keeping was that he had relapsed. Drug use is absolutely forbidden here and anyone found guilty is sentenced to death. If they admitted him, they would run a blood test and then he would be delivered into the hands of the local law enforcement. I was amazed to find that I had no interest at all in indulging the fantasy of my WH being executed, even when the wound was so raw. So, our supervisors made the choice to medevac him to the US. I got to learn of this after many other people knew what was going on: both the choice to medevac and the drug relapse. I am angry at how robbed of agency I have been. Won’t someone acknowledge my right to have knowledge, and that, when it comes to sharing information about my husband, I should be first priority?! Don’t they see the painful crisis I face that is largely caused by secrecy and the withholding of information? Let a woman have some dignity, people!

This brings me back to my state of being. I am acutely aware of the horrible shape my body is in, and I think that’s because my mind has found a lot of peace. The peace has come from a lot of focused work.

The information I had was that my WH had been pursued by the OW, who was simultaneously trying to build a friendship with me. He said that she had come into his workspace (we're all coworkers--me, WH, AP, and her BH) and confessed her love for him, and then he'd been swept away. I asked if he loved her, he said he didn't and hadn't said so. (Gross, so he was leading this girl on?) He said that he had broken things off with her a week ago. This made sense, because he had been significantly better to me in the last week. He was attentive, he visited with me at work, he romanced me on Valentine’s day and we had sex for the first time in many long months (which ultimately became a terrible thing; I had not consented to unprotected sex with a non-monogamous partner). I had a renewed sense of self-respect that I initially didn’t recognize as the upswing of a horrible, toxic relationship cycle. On my own (or so it seemed at the time), I had realized that I deserved very basic things: socks without holes, a smartwatch with a working screen, pants (with pockets!!) that fit my changing body, a phone case that didn't fly off my phone at a moment's notice, a workspace that helped, rather than hindered, my productivity. I did some shopping (earlier I'd felt guilty about having new/working things because I was very concerned about saving money), I went to work early and rearranged my space. It was good. It was a potent dose healing, weirdly timed before a hurricane of hurt.


On DDay, I told him I didn't care if he decided to get with the OW on an official basis, because he and I were 100% done. He was hospitalized in the US, and after he was released, I called him and walked that back. I had discovered I was done with this internalized idea that the leaving spouse doesn't deserve anything. I told him that I deserved help with our children. I told him that if he felt genuine remorse, I deserved amends. I told him that his affair was cheap fantasy. He couldn't handle two kids, but the AP had two kids of her own. Were they going to get together, making him responsible for four kids? I watched on my phone screen as he experienced a real jolt of fear. I asked if he had made contact with her since he left. He admitted he had. I told him I would not absolutely not cooperate with him unless he were to write what I would later find out is called a NC letter. I wanted screenshots. I wanted proof that she was deleted from every possible form of contact. He obliged. The NC letter was good--all he missed was a mention about my hurt. Wasn't surprised that he made it all about him.

I had been watching his personal email. For the brief period he was around after DDay, I demanded his phone and read through his WhatsApp. He'd been so careful to delete their messages on there--both the message itself and the notification that it was deleted. For hundreds of messages. The dedication to it was shocking. He refused to tell me the content of the messages, other than that they were flirty and romantic. Again with the withholding of information. Are you kidding me.

After some mulling, I asked for his Facebook login. Between my sending the message and his consenting for me to get on to Facebook, I'd already gotten on using an old computer of his. He was still friends with her on Facebook, even though he'd sent screenshots of her being blocked on Messenger. He acted confused (a response that usually indicates guilt) and said he'd send any proof he needed that she was gone. Screenshots of Facebook, messenger, WhatsApp, email. He said he wasn't on Facebook proper ever, just messenger, and told me to unfriend and block her. To his credit, it did give some sort of warning about the block itself only applying to this account [b]on Facebook[/b].

I'm not stupid, though. I am an uncanny reader of people, especially him. His change in the last month was subtle. He had already been distant and self-centered and just a pain to be around. But this last month (in the early stages of their A) I had told him, "I don't know why, but I think we are on the brink of divorce. Something's really wrong." He brushed me off. As soon as the conversation was over, he acted like I hadn't said it. I told him the next day that I felt a bit gaslit because that sense of "something's really wrong" was still present. Anyway.

I had been watching his email since DDay. He hadn't received anything of interest to me. But he had said in the aftermath of the Facebook friend whatever that he wanted to prove he wasn't emailing her. What would a screenshot of his email prove, anyway? He could easily delete any messages he sent to her. But had he deleted--? For the first time, I checked his sent box and found an email to the OW, sent on the day of his Medevac, assuring her that they were going to get through this and that he loved her. He told her to contact his parents, who would be "cordial." Unfortunately, the word "cordial" instantly became a trigger for me.

I sent a screenshot of the message to him and his parents. He refused to talk to me at the time, saying he was exhausted from a day of hard conversations. With the time difference, it was time for him to go to bed. He was really so good at setting boundaries for me but ignoring any boundaries I set for him. I urged him to get on and face me immediately instead of making me mull it over all day while I was watching our children. He left me on read.

We had been batting around the idea of him cohabitating with me until our employer decided whether we could keep working for them. The medevac had been on our employer's dime and we both wanted to quit making waves while they considered whether or not to forfeit our contracts. Ha! What magical thinking! I spent that morning packing up his stuff.

Then, I jumped into research mode. I found this site. I read through the relevant articles in the Healing Library. An acquaintance heard of my husband's attempt and was reminded of her sister's XH. She gave me resources on narcissism and trauma bonding. I figured out how to search for the word "affair" on his Facebook messages. I surrounded myself with information, in defiance of people who thought I wouldn't want to/couldn't know. I was able to find out for myself and/or deduce a lot of the details.

She had come to him and said, "I'm in love with you." He had said, "I feel the same way." They'd immediately started spending all the time they could together. Our coworkers had noticed that they were constantly together, but had figured they must have a joint project. The EA quickly moved into the PA. He told a friend he had never had better sex. They took advantage of her BS being away a lot and had sex in her bed. Our houses are very close together. They'd felt guilt. They'd agreed to end it over and over again, but the official breakups were immediately followed by a dramatic reunion that resulted in sex. She had not been on birth control. They did not use protection. He had contacted a lecherous family member, I'm sure expecting him to be an enabler. The family member told him to stop ruining his life, end things, confess, and fight to avoid the fate he, the family member, currently suffered: life as a divorced dad with two kids who had decided they didn't want him in their lives any more than necessary. He contacted another friend who was a much better enabler, who romanticized the entire thing and asked my WH to put aside his shame and explore the passion that had been awakened in him. Even with this, my WH had opted to "quiet quit" the affair, which meant there wouldn't be make-up sex, and had reached out to his 12-step sponsor, who enforced the language of lust and infatuation versus real love and also counseled him through the first steps of recovering from relapse. WH had gotten back into drugs, even stealing my legally acquired ADHD medication, during the affair. He'd also started vaping (he quit smoking 10 years ago, just before we were married). WH was good to me for the week after he quiet quit. The OW was horrible to her spouse and children during that time. The OW had been discovered because she hadn't been as careful as WH. She had been giving friends daily updates on the affair and her BH found them and couldn't look away as he read through the complete, detailed account of their relationship and the sex.

It was a lot to process, but processing is a thing I like to do. This helped me make more discoveries and make peace with myself.

-This A was an expression of each partner's intense self-loathing.
-There's no need to try to unpack why they did this. Logic had no place in this relationship. My WH had to silence the logical part of his brain with drugs.
-My WH didn't love the AP. In the country we live, adultery is illegal (for women only) and becoming pregnant outside of marriage carries a truly cruel penalty (jail time until the child is delivered, then execution, with the child disappearing). She would go back to the US before this happened, of course, but then what? BH has not shown himself able to be a father to his current children, and terminating a pregnancy is not always an accessible option in the US. He didn't care about that. He acted in a way that could cause her mortal harm. It's not a contest, but that level of betrayal might even be worse than what he put me through.
-The gratification of their relationship was short-lived and immediately followed by their inner turmoil, a cycle that repeated often in their short A. These were not people who were "having their fun." They were torturing themselves and each other. They were lying to each other about who they were, what they had.

I told WH about what I had found. I was direct, calm, kind. If he was lying about it to protect himself from my anger, that was a waste. DDay was a bombshell, the other little revelations were annoying, momentarily painful, but my anger had been expressed already. Moreover, I could forgive the affair. We'd both had sex with other people before we got together. My brain could compartmentalize the intimate knowledge he'd gained in the last month alongside the intimacy he'd shared with previous partners. He told me that the sex had been good in the moment, because it boosted his self esteem. He needed to feel powerful. She'd told him that his body (he is obese) was perfect and sexy. That fueled his fire. He admitted, though, that it was "empty calories." I can get that. Like a beautifully decorated cupcake that turns out to taste horrible and makes you feel gross after eating it. The beauty and appeal is all surface level. I told him that he deserved to feel the kind of gratification he sought, but in a situation that was based on reality and trust. I told him it must have been painful for the fog to clear and see that they were lying to keep other as hard as they could. I told him that none of this was my responsibility. He'd made horrible choices and missed out on the support of a loving, compassionate partner. I told him that it seemed that the A seemed to be supremely unpleasant even while it was happening. The "fun" in the affair seemed to only last as long as a bite of a nasty, overdecorated cupcake. His selfishness and cowardly refusal to face his real life had betrayed him spectacularly. I could see he was going through that, and therefore see his humanity. I could never forgive a villainous mastermind, but I could forgive a human. I admit I put him in an easy position, to agree with the feelings I assigned to him so we could be on good terms, but he said that it was all true. He said he was afraid to tell me the truth and was blindsided by my empathy and compassion. He said he never expected forgiveness, ever, and that it showed him what an idiot he'd been to stray from me.

I've been open with him, too, about the uncertain state of our R. The immediate thought of separating came as an immediate relief. We were in a codependent cycle that had bled me dry. I had been working in IC and dabbled in a 12-step program for people in relationships with addicts. I suddenly, completely understood a key concept I had been struggling with: yes, I couldn't change him, I got that in concept, but what I didn't get was that my exhausting efforts to be good to him were a waste because I didn't need to subject myself to someone who wasn't committed to the lifelong process of recovery. I had already been moving in that direction when he'd become so neglectful of our relationship. Even before DDay, I had responded to the neglect by digging into myself, considering my values, asking myself what I had needed. I had not tried to control him as he spiraled, I just told him what my boundaries were and when he owed me an apology. Then DDay happened. I think that's why I found my mental clarity so quickly. DDay was an interruption to a process that was already happening, a related interruption that made it easy to transition back into working on myself.

My mental pendulum of feelings about him continues to swing back and forth. I am pursuing a legal separation that can hopefully get my job contract un-intertwined with his. I am having conversations with lawyers so I understand the ins and outs of foreign custody laws and child support.

Right now, WH is truly working his ass off. He has surrounded himself with people who will NOT enable any of his toxic behaviors. He attends multiple 12-step meetings a day. He has to do a lot of intensive outpatient work to certify that he is fit to come back abroad and work. He has come forward with insights about himself and how his choices have affected me through our marriage, even in the good times, and now, in the really bad times. He listens. He is respectful of the boundaries I set. He has been cooperative with my efforts to sort out our finances. He admits that he struggles to tell the truth, that he is finding it takes multiple tries, because he is addicted to exaggerating, omitting, tickle-truthing. I take what he says and does with a grain of salt. If this is manipulation, I'll find that out soon enough. If this is real, then he is showing all the signs that he truly wants to be a better person.

If I fall into magical thinking, I find myself wishing that a year from now we could be married still, and that he would be completely honest with me, respect my boundaries, and pursue me instead of neglecting me. These things are so hard for him, and even as I indulge in this fantasy, I know that there are many real people on this planet who would have no problem meeting these expectations. They are not a lot to ask, and they are what I deserve.

I spent 10 years waiting for him to grow up, to respect me, to be honest. I will not be surprised if he doesn't end up changing at all. If that is the case, my kids will be protected and so will I. If he changes enough to stop being a hazard to himself and those around him, I would love to keep him in my life as a coparent and friend. If he can just do those three things I listed above, I would be interested in staying married to him, but in a relationship where the toxic, codependent cycles are put to rest. I will not stay around to ground him (both in the emotional way and in the sense of what a parent would do--our relationship has definitely spent time in the unhealthy dynamic of me acting as a parent) and I will not problem-solve on his behalf if he abandons his own recovery, as I have done before. Next time he shits the bed, he cleans it up by himself.

That's a lot in two weeks. And a lot while trying to be a semi-composed mama and support my own mother, who is feeling equally betrayed and sorting through feelings of her own, even while she helps me. I still have some free-floating anxiety (of course!), I still get triggered daily, but so much of my mental turmoil is just gone. Now, though, I'm finally able to hear my body's cries for help.

I feel like this still qualifies for the Just Found Out board. I don't know what my next steps are, other than I have to take care of myself. I needed to tell my story. I would love to hear insights and advice.

BW, 34 years old, married 10 years. Twin sons born 2021.

Dday 1: 2/16/23. Dday 2: 3/16/23 (STBXWH tried to rekindle A, AP sent NC). Dday 3: 8/20/23 (new AP, same bulls***)

posts: 36   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023   ·   location: Back to the US after 10ish years abroad
id 8780216
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 3:16 PM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

Welcome to SI and so sorry you find yourself here. That is a lot to unpack. During the initial shock, it is important to take care of yourself. Stay hydrated, and try protein shakes if you can. Rest as much as you can, which can be difficult when you have toddlers. If you have trouble sleeping or depression, ask your doctor for meds. Also, you may wish to be checked out for STI/STDs.

You don't have to decide today. This would be a good time to take stock and see what you really want. I wanted to see if my XWH would do the work to be a safe partner. Spoiler alert: he didn't. I gave myself 6 month increments, but would pull the plug if he crossed any of the hard boundaries I'd set.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3937   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8780254
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BallofAnxiety ( member #82853) posted at 3:17 PM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

Welcome, I'm so sorry you had to find this place. I am also new here, but I wanted to say hello. Dday was just over a month ago for me.

Our stories have a good number of similarities. My WH had a year-long affair (possibly longer, possibly other affairs) with a coworker. When she first started working there I had suspicions and so WH had me and her become friends so I would know nothing was going on. I relate so much to your feeling that "she didn't have to pretend to be my friend." Her and I would go out for dinner and text about our pets. Guess what, their gaslighting worked, anytime I would suspect something was going on I would think, "No, there's no way she would be friends with me and be sleeping with my husband." My eyes have definitely been opened to the depravity of some people. A friend who has gone through the same referred to it as 'cheating in plain sight' and apparently it's something some cheaters do.

My WH is out of the house and has been since Dday. I suspect he and AP are shacked up, but can't prove it and haven't tried.

Everything you describe feeling, physically and emotionally, are things I'm experiencing and I've heard so many other BSs speak about. Inability to eat or sleep, high levels of anxiety, feeling panicked, feeling worthless, unlovable, and unattractive, the list goes on. Like you, I have lost weight, have trouble eating and sleeping (and am dealing with this by drinking too much), am distracted at work. It's awful.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

Me: BW. XWH: ONS 2006; DDay 12/2022 "it was only online," trickle truth until 1/2023 - "it was 1 year+ affair with MCOW." Divorced 4/2024.

posts: 149   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2023   ·   location: USA
id 8780255
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 4:47 PM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

What a coincidence. A member of my family that we thought had given up alcohol has been secretly drinking for months. His partner is leaving him today. That brings me to you and your husband. He has remained an addict. Alcoholics call it dry drinking.
You sound like a very strong person who has been pulled under the water by this drowning man for 10 years. If he cannot help you parent then he’s not much of a husband. I am not here to tell you to stay or go. I’m just going to tell you that if he changes it’s up to him because nothing you say or do is going to make one bit of difference.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4387   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8780275
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 4:49 PM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

Welcome to SI HotPinkFlairpen(cool username).

I'm sorry you had to find us and there is a lot to your situation, I just wanted to repeat what BallofAnxiety said, what you are feeling and experiencing are all to be expected, we have all been there and it's the worst, but it does get better, take care of yourself first.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3607   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8780277
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Revenger ( member #80445) posted at 5:39 PM on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023

There is so much to take in here. You've found out far more than most BSes do in the first two weeks. DDAy is earth-shattering for everyone, but with all that information and the suicide attempt, it must feel like a mountain is on top of you.

It takes a while for WSes to get their head on straight--limerance is crazy-strong, especially for deeply-flawed addicts. My WH was a master trickle-truther. If I had found out even 20% of what actually happened in the early weeks, I'm not sure we would have attempted R. This is a terrible way to go about it and WSes should give all information upfront, but upon reflection, the only reason we are still together is that I had seen significant and lasting change before I found out the worst of it.

You are a bigger person than I because I would have handed both of them over to be executed.

I hope you find the support you need and your WH gets jolted back to reality before he causes you to lose everything. I'm sorry you're here. But the good news is you found this site before you made all the classic mistakes that I made and that have had long-lasting repercussions.

Married to an SA
Many DDays after discovering many, many EAs/PAs Working on R

posts: 93   ·   registered: Jul. 20th, 2022
id 8780295
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 HotPinkFlairPen (original poster new member #82968) posted at 6:49 AM on Friday, March 3rd, 2023

I wanted to see if my XWH would do the work to be a safe partner. Spoiler alert: he didn't. I gave myself 6 month increments, but would pull the plug if he crossed any of the hard boundaries I'd set.


leafields I have to admit, I suspect that will be the case with us, too. Your 6 month timeline is quite brilliant; I keep asking myself if I'm setting myself up for more torture by leaving the door even a little bit open for R.

A friend who has gone through the same referred to it as 'cheating in plain sight' and apparently it's something some cheaters do.


BallofAnxiety Yes, our community is so small that this was easy to pull off. OW initiated the A and seemed to have a lot of tricks to keep it going and keep it hidden. I wouldn't be surprised if she is an SA. STI tests are hard to come by here, but I will ask WH to get a full workup while he is in the US.

I'm sorry that we find ourselves here, but really appreciate you sharing about the common threads in our story. I look forward to seeing you around as we go on this painful journey.

Alcoholics call it dry drinking.
You sound like a very strong person who has been pulled under the water by this drowning man for 10 years. If he cannot help you parent then he’s not much of a husband. I am not here to tell you to stay or go. I’m just going to tell you that if he changes it’s up to him because nothing you say or do is going to make one bit of difference.


Cooley2here, I actually told my mom that he was a dry drunk years ago. You're so right. It's up to him. The drowning man analogy really resonates with me too. I can't let him pull me under any more.

Tanner thanks for the compliment and reinforcing the good advice I've been given.

You are a bigger person than I because I would have handed both of them over to be executed.


Revenger I admit I feel sort of special that an entire government could entertain my wildest revenge fantasies. Horrible yet hilarious. One for the memoirs, I suppose.

Thank you, everyone. I'm so grateful to this group already.

WH got a tattoo of the AA motto and symbol yesterday. He said he needs a constant reminder that recovery is a lifelong effort.

I'd love to see him become a safe partner. There's a chance. I don't think it's a big one. When I was pregnant, we discovered that the boys were at risk for a life-threatening condition. I asked my doctor about the odds, and she said, "The numbers don't matter. If it happens to you, it happens. Then, we will do anything we need to get the best outcome possible." That came back to me today. If he recovers or not, I will do anything I need to get the best outcome for myself and the boys. All his recovery is outside of my control, so no need to spend energy running the numbers on it.

One twin has refused to talk to WH when he calls. As my mom put it, "it's not just a no, it's a 'hell no.'" He's so young, but he is clearly drawing conclusions about his dad based on the absence and my struggles to keep myself together. I walked the boys around the block today and told them, "Your daddy really loves you. He is sick, so he is staying with grandma and grandpa and trying to get better so he can come back to you." Like magic, both twins were open to and excited about getting calls from daddy. One small victory for today.

BW, 34 years old, married 10 years. Twin sons born 2021.

Dday 1: 2/16/23. Dday 2: 3/16/23 (STBXWH tried to rekindle A, AP sent NC). Dday 3: 8/20/23 (new AP, same bulls***)

posts: 36   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023   ·   location: Back to the US after 10ish years abroad
id 8780439
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RecklessForgiver ( member #82891) posted at 11:53 AM on Friday, March 3rd, 2023

HotPinkFlairPen,

Welcome to SI. I am sorry you need to meet us this way, but if there is one group of people who can understand what you are going through, it is the people on SI. Others have already given some good advice on the other aspects of your situation, but one part of your story really resonates with me—loss of appetite.

Like you, my first two weeks were full of revelations and discoveries, and like you, I analyzed the hell out of it all, lost all my appetite, and dropped 20 pounds (25 as of today, so at least it is slowing down!). I had the weight to lose, and frankly, I think I was sort of punishing myself for having gained weight (as if that 'caused' the affair! Not rational!)

In my case, it actually led to medical issues and a surgery. Please be sure to take care of your physical body right now, even when you do not feel like it.

For what it is worth, what has helped me has been very small meals throughout the day. A few bites. That helps me keep food down. Nothing really tastes like much right now, but I will make a protein shake and sip at it over two hours, or eat a handful of nuts because I can get 200 calories without having to eat a lot. I make a chia pudding and just eat it a spoon at a time. I started tracking my food to try to ensure I got at least 800-1000 calories, and that helped. I can usually get 1000-1100 a day now. I am still losing weight, but not so fast that I am putting my health at risk. I have been trying to focus on how taking care to eat is part of recovery. It's part of how I build my strength. It's how I find the strength to go on and deal with the aftermath of my spouse's immaturity, selfishness, and self-destruction,

Again, your situation might be different. But you have a career, two kids, and a broken heart. That is a recipe for forgetting to take care of yourself. Self-care is the foundation for recovery. Our spouses 'forgot' to care for us in the way they should; we will take care of ourselves and show ourselves the love we know we deserve.

Take care of yourself, and keep talking! We are all here and ready to listen.

RecklessForgiver

posts: 94   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2023   ·   location: Midwest
id 8780447
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 5:07 PM on Friday, March 3rd, 2023

I admit I feel sort of special that an entire government could entertain my wildest revenge fantasies. Horrible yet hilarious. One for the memoirs, I suppose.

I dunno. For me, this kind of stands out as more than just a footnote. That guy risked all the things that married-with-children cheaters do; the family dynamic, the love of his spouse, and when it's a coworker affair, potentially the job. But this goes further. He risked his freedom and his life, and not just with the cheating, but with the drugs. Then, when he's caught, the bizarre suicide attempt where all he had to do was stand up. It's so reckless and immature, like he isn't capable of understanding how real the consequences could be.

It sounds to me like you've got a good life that you are otherwise enjoying over there, but given what this guy risked, how could you trust him again when the stakes are that high? Trust is so difficult to rebuild in any event, but what most of us are risking are emotional and financial security. What you're talking about here is all that, plus jail or death. shocked

If I walk the proverbial mile, I'd need a lot more than whatever intensive therapy he's doing, I'd need to observe over the course of TIME that he could stick with it. I think if it was me, I'd either have to leave the risky environment overseas or insist he remain in the States for an extended separation in order to prove he's capable of real and lasting change. Your career and financial security are important, but if you find that they are the driving force for R, maybe that's telling you something about the marriage?

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7075   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8780613
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 11:06 PM on Friday, March 3rd, 2023

I’m sorry you are in the midst of the worst time in your marriage - the uncovering and continued Dday cycle. We all understand your pain FWIW.

Your spouse is not willing to do anything to save your marriage.

Your spouse is foolish if he thinks you can tolerate her friend being a part of your lives (if you reconcile).

Your spouse is selfish and puts a friend ahead of her marriage. Clearly priorities are skewed.

I wonder if he does say "ok" to ditching the BFF-partner in cheating IF that friendship will remain secretly intact (as he will keep it hidden from you).

Sadly I think this is a case of "BFF or me". There is no ability to compromise here without causing further damage to you and your marriage.

I hope he understands there are consequences to his choices.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:41 PM, Monday, March 6th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 11 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 14244   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8780678
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 7:33 PM on Wednesday, March 8th, 2023

How are you holding up HotPinkFlairPen? Are you still with us?

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2169   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8781302
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 HotPinkFlairPen (original poster new member #82968) posted at 1:10 PM on Thursday, March 9th, 2023

Hi. Thank you everyone. Thank you, emergent8 for checking in.

I'm hanging in there, but very busy.

Honestly, today I am burned out on empathy, on processing, on holding my head up high, on staying professional. I can't keep my grip on "focus on what you can control" any longer right now. I can't find compassion for the people who treat me like a pariah because they don't know what to say. So much falls on my shoulders because two people broke all the rules. It's so heavy. It's so hard.

RecklessForgiver Thank you for sharing your common ground and your advice about eating. I read it the day you posted and have found it so helpful ever since. The small meals really help. I just sit down at my regular meal times, serve myself a little, and eat what I can. I found some good rice crackers that have been easy to eat and keep down. The weight loss is slowing down with me. I'm trying to nurture all my body systems and keep what muscle I have to wrestle toddlers.

ChamomileTea I read your post the first day you posted it, too. It really stuck with me. The stakes are incredibly high out here, and I don't trust him to be safe. I don't trust him with anything. In the messages I uncovered, WH claimed that he was truly in love with the OW, but the affair put her in very real danger and he knew it. That's got to be the opposite of love.

I definitely need time. He has a long, long way to go to prove that he's never going to let himself spiral like that again. He's got to commit, really commit. This can't be like the other times. It's got to be the last. I understand that the chances he actually puts things together are low--and also that I might never really trust him, even if he truly does his own 180. I might just figure he's switched from 3-6 month alcoholic cycles to 10-year cycles and spend another decade waiting for the axe to fall. I don't fully know.

Your thoughts on why I'm staying were hard to read because they hit home. I found out early this week that he might lose his job, which would, as a knock-on effect, cost me mine. My first thought when I heard that was, "If that's the case, we're not reconciling." Telling, yeah? But the truth is that the job is pretty terrible. The benefits have been dwindling year-after-year, the HR is abusive, and my WH and his AP are definitely not the only employees to have a huge breakdown in the last 6 months. People are burning out and breaking down. My relationship with the job is "I guess I have to stay for the kids." It's not worth that. The world-class daycare won't replace their mommy if I lose my mind out here.

The1stWife Thank you! I saw your message before the edit and was trying to think about how to correct you while still showing that I really appreciate and agree with every thought.

I have an update on the BFF. He's a therapist, so I was stunned by his response. I confronted my WH about it and he called the BFF. The BFF explained that he was trying to use therapeutic techniques that would "hold a mirror" to WH so he would think deeply about what was happening instead of staying in the shallow dimension of impulse, braggadocio and fantasy. I talked to my own therapist in IC and she confirmed that this is a sound technique for gently grounding a person back into reality. The results don't lie: WH broke off the affair shortly after that and was treating me well.

I wish people were meaner to my WH, if I'm perfectly honest. I wish more people were blunt with him about his selfishness, immaturity and overall idiocy. However, the BFF has probably made greater strides with his version of helping my WH face reality.

BW, 34 years old, married 10 years. Twin sons born 2021.

Dday 1: 2/16/23. Dday 2: 3/16/23 (STBXWH tried to rekindle A, AP sent NC). Dday 3: 8/20/23 (new AP, same bulls***)

posts: 36   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023   ·   location: Back to the US after 10ish years abroad
id 8781377
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 HotPinkFlairPen (original poster new member #82968) posted at 7:30 AM on Friday, March 10th, 2023

Does anyone have any advice for reaching out to people?

I feel like I'm just a sadness bomb, and that any conversation gets worse the moment I enter it.

I live in a place where our work/personal lives are so enmeshed that there is a lot of discomfort in hearing about the grisly details or gaining insight into the extent of my hurt. So many people have said, "I feel like I need to support all four of you [me, WH, OW, her BH]."

There are people who are willing to help, but I feel like I'm attacking them by messaging or knocking on their door.

BW, 34 years old, married 10 years. Twin sons born 2021.

Dday 1: 2/16/23. Dday 2: 3/16/23 (STBXWH tried to rekindle A, AP sent NC). Dday 3: 8/20/23 (new AP, same bulls***)

posts: 36   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023   ·   location: Back to the US after 10ish years abroad
id 8781466
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BallofAnxiety ( member #82853) posted at 3:29 PM on Friday, March 10th, 2023

Regarding reaching out to people, I texted people saying, I'm in crisis do you have some time and most everyone responded with enthusiastic support.

I also think it's OK at this point to be the sad person in a conversation. If someone you loved had recently died no one would expect you to be happy at this point. As time passes I am making sure to also ask others questions about themselves and their lives, but it really is OK to be sad.

So many people have said, "I feel like I need to support all four of you [me, WH, OW, her BH]."

Oh helllllllll naw. Two of you deserve support, the other two caused it. This is like a friend who, after learning your house burned down, wants to support the arsonist. They don't need support, they need character.

Me: BW. XWH: ONS 2006; DDay 12/2022 "it was only online," trickle truth until 1/2023 - "it was 1 year+ affair with MCOW." Divorced 4/2024.

posts: 149   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2023   ·   location: USA
id 8781572
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 8:20 PM on Friday, March 10th, 2023

So many people have said, "I feel like I need to support all four of you [me, WH, OW, her BH]."

Ugh! That just makes me wanna punch some people. No doubt they think they're saying something empathetic, but it's incredibly insensitive to the actual damage that's been done. If you got pistol-whipped during a mugging, would they have sympathy for the mugger too? Their hearty good intentions mean little in the way of actual support if that's the case.

That said, I really don't believe that people who haven't had this kind of intimate betrayal happen are capable of understanding it. I cringe now to remember the advice and "support" I offered to friends before I was a BS. It was so lacking in any kind of depth or insight, almost insulting in its lack of humility. Sometimes we're just so sure we understand things and then it turns out we know nothing of substance on that subject. I would have told you that I was so empathetic of what my friend was going through, because after all, what is empathy but walking that imaginary mile in the other guy's shoes? But in some things, imagination FAILS.

On the one hand, I think it's okay to have some latitude for people who just don't get it. On the other though, it's a pretty good time to determine who your real friends are. Your real friends will be open to the idea that your feelings are valid, that they can't fully understand because it didn't happen to them. Your real friends will adjust their actions and demeanor to reflect your needs. They will listen and they will prioritize your support. These other people don't have to be enemies or even people you can't enjoy. But if they can empathize equally with your mugger, they're basically Switzerland friends who aren't truly invested in your wellbeing. Surface friends. Friendly acquaintances.

It's okay to save your real sharing for real friends. Believe me, we all know how it feels to be completely preoccupied with this. It's all that's on your mind just whirling around in there 24/7, and sometimes you can find yourself on the verge of blabbing out half your angst to the guy who sold you your morning coffee. You'll probably feel better to keep your boundaries up with people who aren't firmly on your side though. It doesn't mean things can't change later on down the pike or that friendships can't grow in depth. It just means that they aren't safe sources of comfort now.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:22 PM, Friday, March 10th]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7075   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8781649
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 11:38 PM on Friday, March 10th, 2023

I'm sorry you're going through this HotPinkFlairPen. As if infidelity were not enough, its a particularly tough position because of your very unique employment/living situation. In a way, you are FORCED to "protect"/keep your spouse's many secrets for him right now. How deeply unfair.

Regardless of what your social network thinks (and ChamomileTea is right that most people just do not understand infidelity until they've experienced it themselves), please know you are so very entitled to your current resentments. I cannot imagine going through all of this in a foreign country, with twin toddlers, away from the majority of your social network. You truly have been robbed of your agency at every turn.

Question: the drug relapse, how long has it been going on? Did the relapse precede the A or vice versa? I don't ask because I think one excuses or mitigates the other, but it is likely relevant to him figuring his sh*t out.

This is neither here nor there, but please know that I really am impressed with how much mental clarity and insight you have into this, so early on. I know you said you had started to detach even before you learned of the A, but wow, it takes so many of us so, so long to reach the stage you’re at. It really IS a lot in two weeks.

You sound smart, capable, and resilient. You probably don't need me to say this, but whether he is able to get it together and become the person you need (and deserve) for him to be, or not, YOU are going to be just fine. Your kids are going to be just fine. That's not to say it's not going to be a bumpy ride. I'm glad you've found us here. Please let us know how we can help - or let us be your sounding board, if that's what you need.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2169   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8781663
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 HotPinkFlairPen (original poster new member #82968) posted at 8:46 AM on Monday, March 13th, 2023

Oh helllllllll naw.

BallofAnxiety, you've said a lot of things I needed. This is my favorite though. laugh

That said, I really don't believe that people who haven't had this kind of intimate betrayal happen are capable of understanding it.

...

they're basically Switzerland friends who aren't truly invested in your wellbeing. Surface friends. Friendly acquaintances.

ChamomileTea, this all helps me put things into perspective. On DDay, it's so easy to think, "Burn and abandon anyone who isn't 100% on my side! Everyone is trash!" but then you have to see the bigger picture.

It's become clear who is a real friend and who can be a surface-level buddy. No need to draw battle lines or lay everything out for people who are uninterested/morbidly curious when it comes to my well-being. We are so, so enmeshed out here, so civility and civil boundaries are important.

Question: the drug relapse, how long has it been going on? Did the relapse precede the A or vice versa? I don't ask because I think one excuses or mitigates the other, but it is likely relevant to him figuring his sh*t out.

The relapse preceded it. The affair was just a small segment of a long and painful downward spiral that started around October. WH told me today, "I look back at this last month, and I hit a point where I was [without alcohol] basically blackout drunk. I can't believe some of the things I said and did." He also openly admitted that, even if his actions were a result of dry-drunk intoxication, he was still the perpetrator here and he can't stop working or he will be right back to doing those kind of damaging behaviors.

He's doing multiple AA meetings a day. His parents are joining Al Anon.

You sound smart, capable, and resilient.

Thank you for this! You never know what you can handle until life throws you a flaming atomic curveball. I am grateful that I was able to find and work from a place of grace early on. Even with the good qualities, though, I'm seeing that I need help. I need guidance. I need other people. I'm not supposed to do this alone.

I actually joined Co-Dependents Anonymous this week. I haven't identified as having any religious affiliation for many years, but I have found immense comfort in turning this mess over to God/a Higher Power. I've already had a day where the usual triggers didn't affect me. It was just one day, but it was cool.

A huge part of my rage came from the profound loss of agency I had over my own life. It still stings. I don't want to be at the mercy of people who don't have my best interests at heart. Control is an illusion, though. I need to take care of myself and not let the lack of control wound me.

Thank you, everyone. SI is an amazing thing and I'm glad I'm not walking this road alone. You all are a brain trust of survival tips.

BW, 34 years old, married 10 years. Twin sons born 2021.

Dday 1: 2/16/23. Dday 2: 3/16/23 (STBXWH tried to rekindle A, AP sent NC). Dday 3: 8/20/23 (new AP, same bulls***)

posts: 36   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023   ·   location: Back to the US after 10ish years abroad
id 8781917
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 9:44 PM on Wednesday, March 15th, 2023

I actually joined Co-Dependents Anonymous this week. I haven't identified as having any religious affiliation for many years, but I have found immense comfort in turning this mess over to God/a Higher Power. I've already had a day where the usual triggers didn't affect me. It was just one day, but it was cool.

Glad you have found a place that you find helpful (both here and Co-D Anon). No one can walk through this alone. Codependency is something that comes up a lot here. It's not something that was relevant in my situation but I wanted to let you know that there is a board in the "I Can Relate" forum called Codependency & Loving Too Much. I'm not sure how active the board is but it might be worth having a read through to see if anything comes up for you.

Even one day without triggers is impressive at this stage. I think when I was 2 weeks out, I was impressed if I could focus on anything not A related for even 15 minutes at a time. It may not feel that way right now but you really are doing so well, all things considered.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2169   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8782370
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BlackRaven ( member #74607) posted at 4:56 AM on Thursday, March 16th, 2023

HotPinkFlairPen

There are a number of parallels in our stories. My exSAWH was disagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I'm seeing it in your story. You might pick up the book Walking on Eggshells and see if it resonates.

Good luck,

posts: 381   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2020
id 8782412
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 10:24 AM on Thursday, March 16th, 2023

The Higher Power is sometimes a hinderance for those that don’t believe in God or don’t have religion when dealing with AA and Al Anon. Shouldn’t be though, because all it means is acknowledging that not everything is within YOUR power.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12717   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8782425
Topic is Sleeping.
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