SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hellfire: thanks for the suggestion. I have that page bookmarked, and have been reading through pieces over the last day.

TheEnd: thank you for your thoughtful message. You are absolutely correct. Anybody who is on the betrayed side of an affair deals with their entire life being combusted. I know I am certainly not alone or unique in that aspect. I hate that so many of us are here. It is absolute trauma and turmoil for anyone. For me I am feeling it especially as I had thought we had addressed cheating through loads of IC and MC almost a decade ago, and now I’m back in the same spot, but with every other aspect of my life being destroyed this time.

I know I will not have a clear picture of what I want, and what he wants, and then, combined, if that aligns or not, for a bit of time. Unless something drastically changes, one way or another, I think both of us are on the fence about what to do and that’s not a good position to be in for either of us to make a more finite decision. I am awful with limbo and am feeling internal pressure to make a decision now because it feels so stressful to me to have things be so uncertain on top of everything in general being terrible. But I intellectually know I have to get used to not knowing. For now.

In the meantime, I am trying to make as many plans as I can. To stay busy and focused during all of the unknown. Over the last few days I’ve updated my LinkedIn, revised my résumé, and sent it off for external review, started interviewing career coaches, and signed up for three certifications I can do virtually this summer to better my skill set and show recency to my resume in between my part-time hours and taking care of the kids on summer break. I typed out three pages of notes, classifying all of the portions of a postnuptial agreement and divorce proceeding, from division of marital assets to current statistics on investments to custody schedules to child support calculations to alimony, given three or four various outcomes, depending on his legal situation. I have identified two regions I would likely move to with the kids if I decide to walk away and have been researching school, districts and ratings, the cost of rental units, and job opportunities and daycare options.

It’s all I can do to just be as prepared as possible and feel like I have any control here.

Where I am definitely lacking is the introspection and gratitude. I know that there are things in this life that are great, and that I have to look forward to at some point, but it is really really difficult for me to identify them or think that I will ever genuinely smile or be happy again. I’m just doing my best to mask it with the kids and when out in public, but I am such a huge stressball of anxiety and fear and shame, even though I did nothing to be ashamed of.

I am so impressed by how you are handling yourself. What a terrible situation your wh put you in. You mentioned you did IC and marriage counseling 10 years ago, was he unfaithful before or was there questionable behavior?
I May have missed that in one of your posts. Allow yourself to feel like your life is just shitty right now. I find it so frustrating when people tell me to be grateful. Yes I do practice gratitude and absolutely my life could be worse but when you are in pain you just want someone to say yes, things are just bad for you right now!
And I am a yogi and meditate regularly, so I get the benefits of gratitude. But at the same time I think it makes us feel worse and at least I beat myself up for not feeling grateful when I’m just really hurting from the betrayal and struggling to find any light in that hurt place.
Fellow military wife as well. I hope you can eventually find peace. Sending positive vibes your way.

Salt: thanks for your solidarity and encouragement.

Yes, he had sex with an ex when we were engaged about a decade ago when we were still in a long distance relationship. She contacted me through social media shortly after we got married, I confronted him, he confessed, and we did IC and MC for several months. It took me probably two years to stop checking his phone and email and learning to trust him again. We decided to make it work, started a family, and have had up until this point a fairly happy, positive marriage.

… and here we are again almost ten years later. An opportunity presents itself and he doesn’t have enough character not to engage. Even now he says he doesn’t know why he did what he did because he was and has been happy together and as a family. Who knows if it will ever be known. Or if it even matters.

I hope the gratitude will come. At some point it’s bound to. I have great kids and there is potential to make things happen for myself and my kids if I leave him. I know that exists inside of me. But I am nowhere near being able to grasp that more than digesting the words.

I am still very much in shock, disbelief and bargaining; my head feels like it’s broadcasting TV static; I’m just still dumbfounded that this is happening, has happened. It all feels surreal; these are the stories we all read and go "what an idiot" and now I get centrally cast in one of the worst.

Fold - I did not intend for my message of gratitude to diminish the very real trauma and pain you are experiencing.

I was trying to give you suggestions for a MOMENTS peace. At this point, a moment is all you can probably manage. But that moment will turn into many and provide you with the strength to face whatever lies ahead. I remember all too well the overwhelming pain and loss. I would have given my entire retirement account to have one hour of feeling even a little better. I was suggesting some things to give you that reprieve.

Perhaps the suggestion doesn't work for some but staring into the abyss and trying to predict the future will leave you anxious and in a constant state of flight or fight. While necessary at times, you can take a small break from it and ground yourself in what you do have, in the potential of your future and give yourself some small break.

I was truly trying to give you some techniques to help manage the enormous stress you are under. Take what you need and leave the rest, as they say around here.

I think you are handling this very, very well. You truly will be ok in the end as hard as it is to see it from where you are. I won't succumb to despair. I don't want you to either.

She contacted me through social media shortly after we got married, I confronted him, he confessed, and we did IC and MC for several months. It took me probably two years to stop checking his phone and email and learning to trust him again.

I find this interesting because it's the opposite of what SI promotes. The onus is not on you to learn to trust again. The responsibility is on him to prove to you that he is trustworthy and to understand the hows and whys of his cheating so that he can prevent it from happening again. Did he ever come to understand why he chose to cheat with the ex and how he can prevent it from happening again when the opportunity arises? And if he did, how does that factor in his failure to demonstrate it now?

Even now he says he doesn’t know why he did what he did because he was and has been happy together and as a family. Who knows if it will ever be known. Or if it even matters.

If cheating to him "just happens" and he has no idea why or how it happens, what's to stop him from doing it again? Consequences didn't stop him before. Even the severe consequences to his job security did not stop him. If he never figures this out, how could you ever feel safe with him knowing he can suddenly jump at any willing AP the second they show any interest? Maybe it doesn't matter TO YOU, but it's essential for him otherwise he will always be one opportunity away from cheating again.

TheEnd: No, I totally know where you’re coming from! I know your advice is solid and makes sense. It’s certainly advice I’d give others if I’m a different position. I’m just not in the space to find or feel anything but hurt and confusion. I know it’s my issue but I am really in the midst of the suck, not ready to begin any healing path. I’m still in shock and bargaining, haven’t even moved to the other phases.

I agree that it would be beneficial to find small moments. I can open my eyes more to that and find things to be grateful for even if it lasts just a minute. I know they exist I just am not acknowledging anything because I am totally numb and on edge. I’m sure in time it will be more natural and may happen. Or I need to force it to happen.

A positive is that I had an intake with a counselor today and find he is a good initial match. I am counting down seven days to speak with him again.

Until then I am just trying to keep afloat, keep the kids busy and keep my research going as something to cling to.

Yesterday I was back to thinking it would be good to stay for the kids and try. Then last night my spouse got home and turned out he didn’t do something he was supposed to do (unrelated to our issues) and I got ticked off and just walked away and thought "I have to divorce him." It’s just so back and forth.

Nekonimida: Thank you for replying. I appreciate your time and input. A lot.

When we were working through the cheating during engagement he was putting in the work. He was in IC and MC, read the books, did the couples journaling, the workbooks, wrote me cards and letters, apologized profusely, sat and cried with me. He was apologetic and emotional. And he was transparent and always let me look at his phone and laptop, checked in from locations to assure me he was where he said he would be. It eventually got better and I trusted him more. Never 100% which I know now was for a reason. But in the 9 years since it happened he hadn’t, to my knowledge, been deceptive again until now. Who truly knows now though. The great romance didn’t return that we once had but it wasn’t a loveless or sexless marriage. There was (until now) respect, friendship, care and help, good coparenting, similar goals and values.

I told him he needs to figure out why he cheated now for a second time. Maybe there is a reason — he could be a narcissist or a closeted sex addict or a secretive impulsive person. A diagnosis he could cling to as an explanation. Or he could just be a selfish dirt bag. Somebody who only puts his wants and needs first and doesn’t care about anything else. Up to him to determine why he did what he did. And then it’s up to him to determine if he has the ability to change if he wants to change. Not that he thinks he has to or should, but has the actual desire to change. And that goes hand in hand if there is a true desire to R. Or if he is saying that’s what he wants because it’s just another lie and lying comes easily to him it seems.

I’ve asked him — is this just something you do every decade? Cheat on me? How will you
make sure you don’t do this again if you were so sure it wouldn’t happen and it did? Or are you incapable of being faithful due to selfishness and lack of character? He just says he’s sorry, it wasn’t planned and he knows he needs to make changes. It feels performative and trite to me.

Yah he has not reached real remorse.
Are you sleeping in the same bed? If you are then separate to different bedrooms, or send him to the couch. I think you are handling this really well, but so far he hasn't felt consequences from you enough for him to realize how serious you are.

For what it is worth, it sounds performative and trite to me too. He did the whole song and dance the first time around. And somehow he's doing even less now which makes his previous work look less authentic. Clearly the work did not stick which doesn't happen when the work is truly done. He may have treated it like a check list and didn't internalize it. It's alarming that he doesn't seem to have any self reflection regarding how he essentially tricked you (and maybe also himself) into pretending he had changed.

Hope it doesn't come up but I would be very wary of any talk of sex addition. It would mean that there is a whole lot more to this than you know. Sex addicts aren't people who cheated twice over a 10-year-period. They are people who struggle significantly on a daily basis with impulsive sexual behavior and evolving periods of escalation. Sex addiction therapists tend to require polygraphs as a starting point of truth in recovery. If he tries to claim that he is addicted, require him to take one regardless of who else says not to. There is a sub forum in "I can relate" for spouses of sex addicts that you may want to check out if you or he thinks there is any possibility of him having it.

he was putting in the work. He was in IC and MC, read the books, did the couples journaling, the workbooks, wrote me cards and letters, apologized profusely, sat and cried with me. He was apologetic and emotional. And he was transparent and always let me look at his phone and laptop, checked in from locations to assure me he was where he said he would be.

The problem now is..if he did all of this the first time, and then he cheated again..there is nothing he can do to earn your trust again.

As someone said..he did a song and dance,the first time. He complied. He wore a mask. He waited it out,until you stopped talking about it,and he went back to who he is.

Unless there are several more affairs, he's not a sex addict. Which,in some ways,is good. Many sex addicts simply have a ready made excuse for the next time they cheat.

He sounds like a man who is simply as faithful as his options. When the opportunity comes along,and he thinks he won't be caught,he acts on it.

He isn't remorseful. And he wasn't the first time around. A ws who sincerely does the work,and has true remorse, would rather chew their arm off,instead of cheat again.

He's not moving mountains. He's very ambivalent, it sounds like.

IMO, your time would be better spent finding employment, near your family, so you have a support system. Leave him in his mess. Yes, he's your children's father. Let him worry about his role in their life. The truth is,cheaters aren't good parents. Good parents don't risk their children's family, security, and happiness, for a random opportunity with another woman. They don't risk the life,the health,of their children's mother. He may be able to become a good parent. He needs to figure that out.

There isn't anything you can do to protect him from the consequences of his actions. He may not have forcibly raped her. But he had sex with a subordinate, and that very well could make him guilty of coercion. He knew better. He chose it anyway. His problem. You concentrate on saving yourself, and the kids.

You really will be ok.

Even now he says he doesn’t know why he did what he did because he was and has been happy together and as a family.

He did it because he wanted to and didn't think he'd get caught. Simple.

At the very best, he's a serial-cheating, impulsive moron who doesn't consider consequences (affair sex with a subordinate in the military?? Dipshit!) or he's a rapist as well as a cheater.

There are three legs to the stool that is marriage: trust, respect, and love. And love is the least of these (IMNSHO)
There is nothing he can do to earn your trust back. He "did all the work" once and how did that go?
One leg gone.
Can you respect someone so stupid and weak that he blew up his own life and career for piece of ass (not even thinking about you and your family)?
2 legs gone.

To quote a wise, musical genius, Love is Not Enough.

There is nothing to work with.

Tushnurse: yes, he is in the guest room. We text or talk briefly at night about updates and logistics. I’m not eating meals with him, not watching TV with him, or doing chitchat. We are communicating the logistics, each doing our separate thing when the kids are asleep. Once a week, we will talk more openly if there’s anything he wants to say. He’s not getting companionship or socialization from me. I barely can look at him or look him in the eyes.

He may feel remorse but I think the remorse he is feeling is overwhelmingly for himself for being allegedly wrongly accused and having his career end. That is his main focus. Me and the marriage comes second or third, I presume. Or at least that’s how it looks and feels to me. He keeps claiming that his emotions are blocked and he still in shock and feels closed off. I just told him that’s up to him to figure it out, I’m not holding his hand through any of it.

Nekonomida: thanks for your message.

Yes, that’s the confusion and all of this for me. If he was truly remorseful, and did the work, it was supposed to do a decade ago, why did it not stick? Did he just give up on the marriage and on me when an opportunity presented itself? Or did he just gloss through all of it because it didn’t "count" since it happened before we were married? Or did he "fall off the wagon" after a long period of time? I don’t know. I don’t know if he knows either.

I am sure that he does feel bad, and he feels remorse for what he did to me. He has said so multiple times to my face and then letters and cards he has written. He said it to my parents and my friend when apologizing to them. But his focus is on his legal and career situation, which in some regards I totally understand may be more important or take front and center focus at present. But it doesn’t mean that what he did to me and our marriage, family, future, finances, and social life should be shoved to the left while he licks his wounds as a victim. I am hoping his IC can open his eyes to what he has truly done and help him figure out what he wants and how to work to make whatever that is happen. But that’s on him, right?

I don’t actually think he has a sex addiction. I would have seen warning signs, evidence, etc. Outside of the cheating he doesn’t act impulsively and he’s not highly sexually charged. I mentioned it to him as one of a list of potential issues he may need to address but I don’t really think he has one. But that’s up to a professional to determine with him I presume.

Thanks Hellfire.

You are right that he made this mess and he needs to figure it out for himself. His legal problems, his career problems, whatever type of parent, he wants to be, whatever kind of spouse or ex-spouse he wants to be, whatever changes he may make it to work on himself if he has the fortitude to do so.

And if he was lying through the "work" done the first time who is to say he won’t just do that again. Or approach it lazily. Obviously I am not a priority, wasn’t the night he slept with her and don’t seem to be now other than on the receiving end of some platitudes, so why bother? It’s a lot of work to change and really make changes, especially when it’s not a priority, and it feel like a time waster if I leave him anyway or if I’ll always be holding a grudge.

I have absolutely no say, and how anything will go regarding his legal situation. And I have no say on what he chooses to do with his life. And I have no say, and whether he truly wants to stay or if he really wants to go.

I know I can only control my decisions and my reactions. It’s of course much easier said than done. Especially for somebody like me who is a ruminator, worrier, and fixer.

I am spending the majority of my time working on professional opportunities and plans for advancements, a financial plan, a legal roadmap for potential divorce, and research on where I could move with the children. It’s really all I can cling to since everything else is up in the air.

Trapped: good analogy. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, he is now a serial cheater and liar. He took an opportunity because it presented himself, because he is weak and stupid and selfish. He made a terrible decision that has negatively impacted every single aspect of his life and mine.

Can one change from that? I don’t know. There are certainly many people on these forums who have been cheated on multiple times and still manage to make things work in the end. Can my husband be one of those wayward spouses who completely reforms? Maybe. Probably not. How could I truly trust him after everything?

So then we make it to the point where it’s really up to me to see if this is something I can live with. Not having full trust, or romantic love, but maybe a way back to companionship, and some semblance of respect? And the upside is full access to my kids, not having to share them, and them benefiting from both parents. (If we divorce we would live in different states; he’d seen them every other weekend and select holidays.) Is it worth it? Is it as good as it gets? Would the grass be greener? Or would it be filled with struggle, running out of savings, arguments over the kids, resentment, and possibly a life alone without another partner for the end of my days? The logistics and financials of an intertwined life with young children is complex. It feels like there is as much a reason to stay, as it is to go to be honest, and I just don’t know which direction is best. Literally every day I have different sets of feelings. I know I am not strong enough in my conviction, one way or another to make a decision now.

He may feel remorse but I think the remorse he is feeling is overwhelmingly for himself for being allegedly wrongly accused and having his career end.

What you have described here is regret. Remorse isn't focused on himself. It's focused on you. And it's not made of words because anyone can SAY that they are remorseful. It's comprised of actions. Sorry to say his actions show very little in the way of remorse.

There are tons of remorse vs regret threads that you can search for on SI. They appear in multiple forums too. It may be helpful to look through them so that you know the difference in case he tries to sell you on some more regret packaged as remorse. Genuine remorse is a key component to R. Seeing the difference may also open your eyes to some behaviors or words from him in the past that showed he never quite reached remorse the first time.

I agree that it would be beneficial to find small moments. I can open my eyes more to that and find things to be grateful for even if it lasts just a minute. I know they exist I just am not acknowledging anything because I am totally numb and on edge. I’m sure in time it will be more natural and may happen. Or I need to force it to happen.

Moments of gratitude was just one example of ways to try and calm your central nervous system. At the time you were discussing the anxiety of not knowing your future and your ruminations on "what if." Totally normal and a complete bitch to control! But as you've just written, there is so much you can't control and looking into that abyss truly won't do you any good. Still damn hard not to! So again, the suggestion was in part to help you stop ruminating for a moment or two and remind you of all that you do have, that YOU built, that you are working your ass off right now to preserve. Plus, small reprieves "fill up the tank" that is depleted every hour of every day as you deal with this trauma.

You are focusing on some pretty great things and things within your control. Your career, housing, children, financial future. That's excellent stuff at a time where many of us called it a win of a day if we brushed our teeth. Really good stuff you're doing!

If gratitude is hard to come by, try anything for those "moments." A hot bath, a long walk, 10 seconds of deep breathing. Indulge in your favorite tea while you watch the sunset, put your ear buds in and blast your favorite song, a cuddle with the kids. A few minutes here and there of some simple, simply joy can really help. It's "the work" BSs have to do to stay sane and eventually build some strength.

I am very sorry you are here with us.

Nekonomida: thank you for your note. And support.

You are right. There is a difference (and it is stark) between regret and remorse. I do feel he had both the first time around before we were married. But now I am seeing like 90% regret as he is focused on himself and the scraps are energy toward remorse.

He has said that his focus in IC will be on us, trying to communicate better to me what he is feeling, and make reparations. He also keeps saying that he wants to try to R. Perhaps then remorse will come through actions. But he has to work through why he cheated, how he can change and then if he is actually capable of change.

I told him that through his own IC and introspection he may realize he doesn’t want to change, is too lazy to do the work, and then he will have a clear picture that R isn’t going to be possible and we will decide to D. The whole of this is on him. If he wants to become a better person it’s up to him. That can happen if we are together or not. Or he may decide change is too hard and it will be easier to go his own way solo, be ok with seeing the kids twice a month, and determine himself if he cheats on the next woman who comes into his life.

I think we are truly both on the fence. And that is ok. I don’t want to stay with someone who doesn’t want to be there as much as I don’t want to be the one staying who doesn’t want to be there. In the end it will be one or the other whenever that end may be.

Now it’s dealing with the murky interim, which could be months or a year or more.

The End: you’re so kind. Thank you for your supportive message. It really means a lot as I reread these posts all day long.

I am reading the pinned articles and topics here and that have been suggested and also a few self help books related to infidelity and trauma and divorce. It’s all soothing and jarring at the same time but the words may help one day so I will stay with it all.

I hope small moments of joy will reach me in a way I can truly value them. I’m not there but maybe I will be soon or one day.

One helpful thing that has given me a tiny reprieve is that he and I structured a framework for the post nuptial agreement / potential divorce decree. I drafted it, he added edits and we talked through the particulars.

We now have a roadmap that outlines everything from child custody and visitation to values for child support and alimony and life insurance. It includes a division of our assets and material possessions. It includes a breakdown of values for alimony dependent on outcomes of his legal situation (the percentage of his pension I would receive if he is permitted to retire at his rank, or at one rank below, or at two ranks below). It includes language to a lump payment I would receive from his 401(k) if he is dishonorably discharged and there are no pension payments. It includes language around things like each party being responsible for contributing a certain amount each year to each child 529 college savings plan. It includes information about who is responsible for what portion of rent and utilities, depending on if and when one of us may move out of the rental house we currently live in. It includes custody provisions for our pets. And that includes details about how we would remove the other party from certain things: the registration and title of each car each of us would take sole ownership of; designating the children or a trust as the beneficiary for retirement benefits and 401ks.

As of now, we agree with how the division of everything has been written. Next week I meet with a family attorney and will use these notes to discuss structuring a post nup and to get advice on whether that’s even necessary. If it is a better time, energy, and money spent to structure a divorce agreement and just not file until we need to.

If nothing else, and if, of course, he does not change his mind, the financial amount I would potentially receive is enough that I would be able to rent a small townhouse in a different state. I have course would have to work full-time in a better paying job in order to pay for groceries, incidentals, daycare, savings, my own retirement, and the things the kids need. But at a minimum I know now at least I will be able to have money for rent even if my income remains very very low. As long as he retains some portion of his pension. If he doesn’t then everyone loses and there is no money; he would accrue back pay owed for child support and I’d have to see what disbursement comes after penalty taxes from drying on his 401(k) early.

So it feels helpful to be on the same page, but also sad. A big part of the sadness is that in both of us taking this so seriously (which I know is a good thing) he is stating that he will agree to see the kids every other weekend. I’m glad he doesn’t intend to fight me on who has them FT, but it is so sad that he could be so ready to say "OK. I’m too tired to fight for the family and marriage, so I’ll be cool flying to see them for 48 hours twice a month."