SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Of course I get it.

If he lies about others he has cheated with, I am out, whether he discloses that now or if comes out in a polygraph. He knows these are my parameters.

Since we BOTH don’t yet know if we desire to try to make it work, there’s really nothing to lose by coming clean on everything. He swears up and down that this was a one time thing. I don’t know if I am getting the full truth or not. And he doesn’t know what to do or say for me to believe it is a one time bad decision thing as much as I don’t know what he could do or say to convince me. It’s almost a stalemate. And without a polygraph there is no "proof."

I’m done with the nightly discussions with him about what we should do. We can touch base on logistics for the kids as needed but I don’t think sitting and talking is helping. It’s just rehash and the goes in circles. If he needs introspection and time to sit with his choices he needs it and can take it. I think I’ve sufficiently outlined my parameters and stakes for now.

Since we BOTH don’t yet know if we desire to try to make it work, there’s really nothing to lose by coming clean on everything.

Actually there is a lot to lose. Your respect. His reputation if you tell anyone. Closing the door on R. Whatever he thinks about himself as being "not as bad" compared to what he could have done. He doesn't have to live with the reality of the truth if everyone around him still believes the story you have now. These are powerful motivators.

I think it's wise for you to step back and focus on yourself right now.

There is truth to this. For now, those who know something is going on know only that he is being investigated. They don’t know what for. And without giving details to some who have checked in he’s said simply that there is a false allegation against him. So for now, he’s getting lots of hang in there messages and the truth will come out statements. Lots of people saying they trust him and know who he is and that’s what matters. So it’s certainly helping him manage his emotions around the allegation.

But …

When more comes out later people will know what the allegation is. For now it could be anything, but later it will be stated it’s for assault and an inappropriate relationship. And then those same people who are telling him to stay strong may retreat or change their tune. Even if they believe the assault allegation is false they will know from the inappropriate relationship detail that something wasn’t above bar. He’s facing a little music now and will have to face a lot more later. Whenever that may be. Could be weeks, months, or a year. No clue.

I’ve cut out all communication other than simple logistics around kids and a quick debrief of any updates on his side. No more talking about us and what will happen. He needs introspection and he can take the time to do it. I’m not going to walk him through a structured conversation of options and outcomes each night.

Fold,

It appears to me that you have a very clear headed approach to this awful situation. You are doing what you need to do for your and your children’s future.

It seems that you feel you almost need to justify your thoughts and actions to some on this board. Some seem to be pressuring you, but I’m sure it’s from a place of concern. As is often said here, take what you need and leave the rest.

You are doing amazingly well for this early on and for these devastating circumstances. Please keep posting. We’re on your side.

Sending a hug. Take care of #One.

I’ve cut out all communication other than simple logistics around kids and a quick debrief of any updates on his side. No more talking about us and what will happen. He needs introspection and he can take the time to do it. I’m not going to walk him through a structured conversation of options and outcomes each night.

I think this is the correct approach to take toward your husband at this point. You've got this, Fold... and we're here for you.

Thanks Beach and Bluer.

The minimal contact continues and is going OK. Yesterday he wrote me a letter. I’d suggested a week or so ago he might want to do it for himself or me to help unblock his feelings not knowing if he would. It was the usual stuff: he is sorry, he is hurt I am hurting and he is the cause, he knows I did nothing wrong, he’s sorry my life has crumbled because of him, I’m nothing but a good wife and mother, and he loves me. I suppose it is a start for him to sort where his feelings are. There was no discussion in the letter of whether he wanted to make it work or not.

He met with a chaplain yesterday to talk. He is awaiting being assigned a mental health counselor. I had an intake with my IC. Now have to wait a week to actually talk about what is going on. I am also trying to schedule a marital counselor so we can get started.

Still waiting on attorney to schedule a meeting about post nup and divorce so I can gather information. And in the meantime I am furiously researching remote work I can start between juggling the children because at the end of this there is no job security for him, he may walk away without his pension, and I need income to support myself and kids if I divorce him or need income to replenish savings we are using for attorneys. Also continue to research where I could move with the kids if and when that happens. I’m trying to consider locations where I know a couple of people but unfortunately that’s mostly big cities and I don’t know how I might cover expenses without dwindling savings.

Logistics and plans for potential outcomes is the only thing I can feel ANY control over. In the meantime it’s a long holiday weekend and everyone is vacationing or out doing family things or having parties and I’m trying to manage how awful it feels not being part of it all. Thanks all for listening. It means a lot to me.

Logistics and plans for potential outcomes is the only thing I can feel ANY control over.

That, and yourself-your boundaries, is all that you actually do have control over and that is all the control that you need, or want.

It will be interesting to see how your attorney recommends you approach this two-frontal multifaceted engagement. He might recommend you support your WH with the criminal-misconduct engagement first, pushing for the best possible outcome on that front, and then, when that is settled, begin your engagement on the marital post-nup or divorce front, pushing for the best possible outcome there in a methodical phased and outcome dependent approach.

Again, I am impressed with your very pragmatic, well-considered unemotional approach so far, with priority on YOUR best outcome. Your WH showed NO emotion towards you when he selfishly decided to destroy your world so, he should have no problem with your unemotional, self-prioritized efforts to extricate yourself from HIS mess. If he has an ounce of integrity, he should, on some level, respect and admire your poise and dignity in action, under some pretty extreme circumstances. If he never fully appreciated what he had, in you, he should after this is all over, if he’s worth a damn.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:08 PM, Monday, May 29th]

I am also trying to schedule a marital counselor so we can get started.

I would recommend not starting MC until you are both fully committed to R. If he has not made an unambiguous statement that he is willing to do whatever it takes to R, I would not start MC. If you do not yet have enough information to decide whether you want R, I would not start MC.

Talk to your IC about whether they believe the timing is right for MC before you proceed. If they don't object and you want to start sooner rather than later because it may take years before you can determine whether he can meet your parameters, then at least wait until you've had a few sessions in IC to sort out your own feelings.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 7:59 AM, Tuesday, May 30th]

You are in a tough position. It may be hard to know if your H is leaning in you to save your marriage OR b/c you are his Rock in this storm.

He needs support against these allegations and turns to (or wants to turn to) the person he knows he can rely on. The one person who has supported him.

I think the 180 here is a good thing for both of you. You can watch him go see if he will man up or crumble. You can see for yourself if he is truly remorseful.

While my H was demanding a D he thought he had it all. ROFLMAO. When he then ended the affair he thought he could take it to his grave that he had continued cheating the last 6 months. When I turned my back in him he was on his own to figure out how to get me to R. I gave him NO help or encouragement or support.

He had to man up. And he did. With complete remorse too.

I agree with S2F that MC is premature.

The first reason is, simply, you don’t have a marriage problem; you have a cheating husband problem. The last thing you need is a counselor telling you that you have to own 50% of the marriage’s problems or that your husband had "unmet needs" that weren’t being met in the marriage.

The second and perhaps more important reason is that you don’t know if he’s still lying to you, which makes MC a fruitless effort. Your husband writing a complete timeline of his affairs and passing a polygraph should be the bare minimum required for you to even consider MC.

BTW, do you know if your husband has had any training on beating polygraphs as part of his military training? That would be good to know in advance.

And lastly, you did couples counseling after his first affair and he clearly learned nothing. Save your money for a lawyer and IC for yourself and your kids.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:24 PM, Tuesday, May 30th]

Thank you all for taking time to reply. It means an awful lot to me.

I’ve been thinking about whether to schedule the initial marital counseling session. I finally got a message today that we have been matched with a provider, but agree it is premature to start. We are both just starting IC (intake only) but we certainly need some sessions on our own before we can make MC actually useful. We discussed it and will table for now, re-address it in 4 weeks.

We have had one check-in talk (to discuss MC) and each shared a few things we’ve been feeling. Kept it brief. He is starting to unlock emotions and is teary and upset more; the shock has seemed to have started to wear off for him. My BFF visited last weekend and I got some good time alone with her to talk openly. She also spent some time solo with my spouse, a mixture of giving him the business and advice on how he may want to better communicate with me. I think it helped him, and it definitely helped me. From my perspective we are both still 50/50 whether we want to try R or move straight to D. I have my set parameters for what would compel me to immediately D, and he understands that. He needs to sort out in IC what it is he actually wants vs., say, what he thinks he should want.

Mentioned earlier but his counsel advised against poly. Not surprised. He has no training on "beating" one regardless. He continues to state he will take a hundred when he can to prove to me he is telling the full truth. But since he can’t now, he will have to determine for himself what he can say, do and show to prove to me he is being truthful and genuine — if he wishes to that is.

I’m meeting with a top family lawyer in two weeks to discuss structuring the post-nup, and parameters for how a divorce might proceed. The military aspect complicates things from a financial perspective so it will be good to get some counsel. I am presuming I will retain the firm to proceed with the post nuptial agreement, at a minimum. And then dependent on their work product would rehire for divorce if necessary. We are in agreement that we want to make things as simple, inexpensive, and easy as possible if we D. But I am sure everyone says that or intends that, too, and it isn’t always the case.

Otherwise, more of the same. Researching better work options, areas to potentially move to if/as a single parent, cutting expenses where I can, focusing on kids and life management. It is hard to see my world/community shrink, and watching others enjoy BBQs and events we had been originally invited to and are of course not part of any more. Group texts that used to be constant that have gone silent, likely reforming the group without me on the chain. I’m fortunate a few have really showed up for me (only a few know ALL the details), and others are showing support (those who know something is up but not the particulars). But there has been radio silence from a few people who absolutely are aware there is something going on and that really, really hurts. I know that as details emerge more will withdraw, and am prepping for that. And the absolute embarrassment and shame that will come for being mixed up in something so public, scandalous and awful, to say nothing of the extremely personal pain I have been put in and haven’t even begun to address because I am so focused on the bigger issues.

It is so cliche but I just can’t completely fathom how this has become my life. I have done nothing wrong and my entire world has been destroyed. I’m revving at such a high level and just in go mode, but I am so so exhausted and I can’t get a break from the crazy thoughts, looping insecurities, and intrusive fog of apathy/depression/fear that’s pervasive, just weighing me down. And all of this while I have to put on a smile, wear my wedding ring, and pretend things are A-OK every time I leave the house. I am so exhausted.

Oh my goodness, Fold! You are going through so much and are being kinder to your WS than I would be for sure.

I just wanted to lend my support and give you a virtual pat on the back for a job well done so far. Your stress level must be off the charts so please remember to give yourself A LOT of self care right now.

I admire your strength. We are all here for you. ❤️

Sadly when the chips are down you find out who your real friends are.

I’m sorry you are being abandoned. But you will survive this. We all do. Whether your D or R you will always protect yourself and your kids. That’s your responsibility from Dday going forward.

Thanks for your considerate messages. It helps a lot.

WH and I have both started IC. The person I was matched with isn’t a good fit (could tell just from intake) so I requested a different provider. Frustrating, but in a few weeks I hope to have had an initial appointment. He sees his counselor this week; he’s met twice with a religious counselor as well.

He and I are still tense, just trying to manage logistics, and step away from more meaningful discussions. There’s been some external stress not related to our issues (our rental house, family), so it’s been contributing to some more difficult times, which is not super helpful but how life works.

I’ve caught him speaking about the future a few times ("the next house we move into" and "let’s do XYZ again next summer") but I still don’t know what he truly wants to do and don’t think he knows either. I told him he should consider a top goal in IC to be working through if he truly WANTS to stay and try to make it work, or if he says he wants to stay because he THINKS that’s what he should want or say.

But at the same time I irrationally want him to ONLY want to stay, to do anything to make it better, to fight for us as a family. Maybe I just want to have all the power in a powerless situation? I feel like after what he has done he doesn’t deserve to get a choice, that I deserve to be the one to stay or go. I know that’s not rational, but it’s how I feel. Has anyone felt that way too?

I’ve been thinking of you, Fold. You seem like a very strong, together person. Take care of yourself, and I’m sorry you’re on this road.

I feel like after what he has done he doesn’t deserve to get a choice, that I deserve to be the one to stay or go. I know that’s not rational, but it’s how I feel. Has anyone felt that way too?

Yes, I think this is very common. First, you want justice and justice would dictate that he has no power left, you get to decide and he suffers the fear and anxiety over that versus you.

Of course, you do have that power. You do get to decide if you stay or go.

But it's impossible to choose if he's jumping around like a jack rabbit between stay or go. So yes, it's taking some power away from you. Because if he isn't 1000% committed then there is no reconciliation regardless of what you want. You actually are being rational. If he's not committed, your options are down to one. And that's simply not fair. That is though, the nature of infidelity. Completely unfair.

Thanks Grieving. I certainly don’t feel strong or put together but I am clinging to anything concrete, and data and research is all that is for now. I’m running out of related topics to research though, so the looping and emotions and what if ABC happen are coming back.

Thank you, End. I had a feeling others have felt similar … the WS had everything and more, and they deserve no choice now. Let the BS have the choice and power. It makes sense and doesn’t simultaneously.

He’s claiming he wants to make it work but I’m still not seeing or feeling real remorse or work from him. We’re also not talking much so maybe that’s to blame. I suppose he is waiting to begin IC and get better at opening up and communicating his feelings as he says he feels closed off and blocked right now. And he needs time to consider what he can say and do to attempt to rebuild trust. I just don’t know if he has it in him to do the work required. I feel like giving up is an easier path and he may just take it. He’s afraid I’ll never trust him or forgive him; and I don’t know if I ever will. It all just feels insurmountable, no way to "bounce back."

The hardest part is not knowing how anything will go and what to do in the uncertainty. I’m very black and white, and hate being in limbo and think it will be that way for a long time.

One of my closest friends who has been the only local person who knows ALL the details moved away today and it has been so so hard for me. She had been coming over unannounced and checking on me almost daily and has been such a life saver. A few friends know everything but they’re thousands of miles away. It’s different from someone who can sit and talk with you in person. I feel a lost now without her, just another loss in a long string of losses.

I wonder if this is his "Rock bottom" and he can’t open up now, what will it take?

Facing a D I can tell you my H made some immediate changes. In his own. And they were not temporary changes either.

He was out of time and he knew I was not in a forgiving mindset.

I don’t think he is at rock bottom. For now, his career has of course suffered and will eventually end, and he has a very serious legal situation he is facing. He has yet to get to the lowest of low points as he is still employed and has not been charged with anything as the investigation is ongoing. People don’t have the full picture (just that he is being accused of something, and to some he’s just said it’s for something he didn’t do). But even though it’s the truth, they don’t know that he while he didn’t commit a crime, he did cheat on his wife. So it’s all messages of support and hang in there and you’ll come out great in this because you’re great. So he has a false sense of true support (presuming some will back off once they find out he cheated). And he’s not at rock bottom because I’m still here, and he is still in his home and seeing his kids. So to the outside world it looks like a supportive family unit.

I believe he is still fully embracing the victim role of being accused of something he didn’t do, gathering the support of others, licking his wounds, and feeling aggrieved. But he just isn’t seeming to be embracing the fact that despite a false accusation he did a super shitty thing to me. He’s either pushing aside his feelings or having to deal with it in favor of spending energy focused on his other very real career and legal issues, or it’s just that he really doesn’t care that much. He keeps saying he loves me and is sorry and wants to make it work, but it doesn’t feel genuine to me. And there’s the stalemate: how can he convince me and how can I believe him?

We talked a little last night and I said he needed to spend time and effort determining for himself if he has it in him to make some major changes. And that he may find out he doesn’t. That he is not strong enough or has enough character to make the effort. And if that’s the case it is ok and better we both know it so we can proceed best for each of us. He promises he will address it all in IC. Time will tell I suppose.

I feel weak if I stay, that I’m a doormat and will willingly be putting myself in a constant state of vigilance. And I feel if I leave I am hurting my kids and their future, and will forever struggle to provide and be a good single parent, and will be alone and lonely for life. There is just no good outcome.

Fold123

There is one thing that has been bothering me from day 1…
I’m a former cop, and I probably dealt with more people that insisted they were innocent than I did that admitted their guilt. That included some serious stuff… I remember one instance where a local young man of 22 years was accused of rape. I remember how his mom and dad were screaming with indignity while he was being questioned, how his friends started a petition about his innocence and how the young woman was ostracized from their joint church and society. Heck… the church even prayed for him, but never offered her any support.

Yet… after an investigation, the DA going through what was available and a very competent defense attorney… he was sentenced for rape. All the time insisting his innocence and his family and friends moaning about the injustice of society. I think he took a plea-bargain and did minimal time in jail.
Keep in mind that especially back then rape is probably one of the hardest crimes to prosecute. I venture that back then maybe only 1 in 50 rapes was reported, 1 in 20 got to court, and the conviction rate was maybe 1 in 10. So personally I tend to belief that if convicted a crime was committed.

I don’t have a clue about that "boy" now 30-35 years later. Maybe he still thinks the girl was leading him on, wanted it rough or whatever and that society was unfair and all that. Or maybe he has come to terms with what he did and accepts his responsibility. I’m all for redemption and don’t think people need to carry a cross for life for past mistakes, but I do belief the key to improvement is accountability. I wonder if his parents still think Johny is a "good boy" and got badly treated by that "lose woman". I also wonder if she ever got the support she needed and probably deserved…

OK – Your husband isn’t charged with rape per se. I don’t think there is any risk of a rape-charge. It’s rather an issue of if he used his position of power to make her feel she had no option to have sex with him, and if that’s blatant enough it could probably lead to a criminal charge. It’s a lot more likely to be dealt with in some form of "behavior below standards of the service" charge.
What is clear and you acknowledge is that he broke the rules of his employer.
It’s also clear that he broke his covenant with you.

That is tough and you need to deal with that.

I would suggest you let the false or not false issue ride fair and square with the group investigating the charges. You don’t have the information or resources to determine if the charges are true or false.
The outcome won’t necessarily make reconciling easier or harder. What will make R harder is trying to do so from any other base than the truth. Like that young man’s parents that would probably have been better off accepting their son’s accountability and working at amends and improvements over indignation and denial.