SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For what it’s worth, I’m not a person inclined to sugar coat things or to give myself daily affirmations to try to convince myself of something that doesn’t comport with the reality of what I’m seeing or feeling. But I do think reframing is helpful sometimes, and for my personality and situation, one of the biggest helpful takeaways from this thread has been to be more active and direct about

building a good marriage rather than passively assessing/dwelling on the post-infidelity parts of it that are discouraging or dissatisfying.

Do I still struggle with trust in a way I didn’t before his affair and the egregious lying that came with it? Yes. And has that had an impact on the romantic connection I feel with him? Again, yes. But there has also been discernible improvement in those areas over time, even if it’s been of the slow, three steps forward two steps back variety. Trust and romantic connection are very closely tied for me, and they’re not something I can force or rose color glasses my way into. The changed dynamics in those areas are what prompted me to ask the central question of this thread.

But there are many, many good and deeply satisfying parts of my marriage, and my husband, though not perfect, is a committed partner in our joint desire and effort to forge and maintain a good relationship. That’s a big deal, because it takes two. So I do have hope that we can have a better marriage than before, not because of infidelity, but because of the work we put in and our willingness to be honest and vulnerable and proactive. Obviously I can’t know what the outcome will be or where we’ll be three or five or ten years from now, but i don’t feel hopeless or like I'm stuck in a shit sandwich situation.

Mostly, though, I’m just immensely grateful for everyone’s honestly and thoughtfulness on this thread, whether you’re in the better marriage camp, or worse marriage camp, or just muddling your way through the aftermath of heartbreak and not sure where everything is going. This journey has been one of the most difficult of my life, and all of you on this site have been more helpful to me than I can say.

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Blac Chyna Threatened To Kill Kylie Jenner

[This message edited by Grieving at 1:25 PM, Monday, June 19th]

Do I still struggle with trust in a way I didn’t before his affair and the egregious lying that came with it? Yes.

Me, too. The thing is: I'm as certain as I can be that the blind trust was the mistake. The trust while knowing the trust may be misplaced is a much better approach to life.

And has that had an impact on the romantic connection I feel with him?

Hmmm ... if one splits, does one ever have the blind trust again? If not, won't that always impact love?

Prefacing this message to say this is completely my opinion and not meant to bash or put down anyone's decisions regarding how they survive infidelity.

Do relationships actually get better after infidelity?

Short answer: Yes.
For couples who decide to R, they can end up with better communication, better boundaries, and a more realistic view of each other brought about by the affair.

Long answer: No.
The crack in the foundation of your relationship will be there forever, permanently. You will always know that this person you loved and trusted the most was and is capable of making intentional choices to hurt you in the most intimate and painful of ways. People may argue that everyone is capable of such atrocities, and that is true, but being capable of murder and actually murdering someone are worlds apart.

I truly can't believe anyone can honestly say they would rather have gone through infidelity to get where they are now in their R'd relationship. The work that was put into the relationship due to infidelity 100% could have been done without infidelity, though the path to that work may have looked different. You see the term "blind/innocent trust" being used often and how it's unhealthy to have that stance on anyone, and how breaking that illusion towards your WS can be a good thing. I disagree. There are people in my life who I trust completely, wholly, "blindly." They are people I have known my whole life and who have not once done a single thing to wrong me. In that way they have gained that level of trust. It's a beautiful thing to have and to feel and is absolutely attainable. I want that feeling with a life partner. However, to ME, blind trust does not mean turning a blind eye to possible red flags, I think that's important to clarify. Trust but verify if you encounter odd behaviour or red flags coming from someone you trust.

After an affair, the love is changed. It will always be different, even after you get to a place of being healed during R. There feels like something is missing, that something special that you felt before you learned your WS could do to you what they did. After 2 DDays I told myself I am worth more than settling for less. I should've left after DDay 1, but we all know how sunk cost and burning love can warp our common sense.

I've been thinking about this,since my original comment on this thread.

I think,if your marriage wasn't great before they cheated, then maybe the new marriage you rebuild together can be better..except there will never be complete trust. Or rather, *I* don't see how that's possible.

But..many ws cheat in a good marriage. And,if you had a good marriage, and they cheat, then no,I don't see how it's possible to have a wonderful marriage after an affair. My opinion.

I had a great marriage before he cheated. If anything, it was to my detriment. I spoiled him. Everything was about him. My world revolved around him. I wore myself out to make sure he was happy and loved. I went out of my way for him. Every day.

Then he cheated.

So..now,no,my marriage isn't better. We've reconciled. Any issues we have now are regular marital issues that happen after 22 years of marriage. But the marriage has never been as it was before.

Because I'm different. I don't wear myself out. I put myself(generally) ahead of him. If he's coming home from work,at midnight, I'm in bed asleep. Before I'd be waiting up with dinner. He occasionally talks about missing the wife I was in the past. Acting as if I changed due to random circumstances. I remind him he had that wife, and he didn't appreciate that wife, so I will never be that wife again. I'm proud of who I am. I respect myself a little more than I did before. I've learned that I matter. My wants, my needs. I'm happy with my life. And my marriage? It's ok.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:32 PM, Monday, June 19th]

Me, too. The thing is: I'm as certain as I can be that the blind trust was the mistake. The trust while knowing the trust may be misplaced is a much better approach to life.

. . .

Hmmm ... if one splits, does one ever have the blind trust again? If not, won't that always impact love?

I do think blind trust was a mistake on my part, and that I have a much more healthy perspective on trust. I don’t think I’d go into any relationship again with blind trust.

But the trust issues I have with my husband post affair aren’t about the loss of blind trust. They’re about living with someone who broke my trust. Who shattered it. Giving up blind trust is a positive step toward becoming a healthy adult with a realistic view of a complex world. Dealing with the after effects of someone actually breaking your trust is another ballgame. Like wondering ghost pointed out, there’s quite a difference between knowing that everyone is capable of murder, and dealing with someone who actually commits it.

And I don’t think the strong romantic connection I felt for my husband before his affair, the one that isn’t at the same level anymore, was tied to blind trust so much as it was forged over two decades of closeness and connection unmarred by broken trust.

All of that said, I still see hope for us. For one thing, I’m seeing a slow but perceptible increase in my trust and romantic feeling over time as my husband stays steady in his commitment to repairing and restoring the relationship and becoming and being a trustworthy person again. And other than the issues with decreased trust/romantic feeling, I can’t say I have any complaints about our relationship, which has many strengths.

I can see how infidelity could be a permanent crack in the marital foundation for many people. For me, though, it feels different. I feel like we have a pretty good foundation and a pretty solid house; we just got hit by a storm that we didn’t take adequate precautions against, and there’s been a lot of damage. Living in a damaged house sucks, but maybe we can use the rebuilding process to rearrange some rooms and make some aspects of the house better. And my husband sure as hell better not half ass his side of the reconstruction. Our heart pine framing and Kentucky stacked stone foundation might be good, but I want double paned windows, hardi plank siding, and a slate roof on this bitch.

Am I happy that the infidelity occurred?

No.

Neither of us are happy about it.

Did the infidelity in and of itself change the marriage?

No.

Again, I'm very lucky, the infidelity itself was a one off and inconsequential. No pregnancy, no STDs, no social or workplace fallout, no ongoing affair/s or ongoing deceptions.

Per my previous post, the fact that it happened at all, and especially under those specific circumstances, was a very big deal.

Secondary to that major point, the minimizing and the overall deception immediately after the fact, and again years later at DDay2, the actual DDay, was also a big deal. It brought FOO issues/ingrained behaviors and patterns that we'd been avoiding or soft pedaling for decades into sharp focus.

I, and truthfully both of us, had been tolerating, absorbing, repeating, ingrained generational and FOO dysfunctions for years, decades. When possible, we avoided it, which was a surprisingly effective coping mechanism if one is unable to conceive of divorcing oneself from one's narcissistic family entirely.

Per my earlier post, infidelity was a bridge too far for me, it was indeed a deal breaker.

I realized that I'd been swallowing shit for decades and choking it down with a spoonful of "Yeah this sucks but I know that my Husband really loves me and that I am enough. He's never cheated on me and he never will."

Ha! You can just imagine... what DDay2 was like... my entire perception of my husband and of my marriage crumbled before my eyes.

In the earliest days I kept saying to Husband, "All of the crap we've been through, all of the crap we've endured, all of the crap *I've* endured on your behalf, and now this???"

Therein began a deep dive on basic relationship fundamentals: honesty, trust, integrity, commitment, empathy, selflessness, compassion, respect, boundaries, priorities, values, maturity, self-control, all things that are not modeled nor taught in narcissistic families.

The inverse of these healthy characteristics are the hallmarks of narcissistic families and systems: hyper control, guilt, shame, disrespect, lack of empathy, no boundaries, absence of healthy validation, triangulation, subterfuge, dishonesty, immaturity, impulsiveness, Duper's Delight, etc.

And then there was Husband's coping mechanism: avoidance. It was the only tool he had in his tool box and his only method of coping with the FOO. Furthermore, it was the only 'method of management' that the FOO would selectively tolerate, and that only because they practiced it themselves.

In that avoidance was Husband's only coping mechanism, it became our only coping mechanism, both within our marriage and with the FOO and with the world at large.

Processing the infidelity brought all of these issues into sharp focus and really defined why and how they were and are unacceptable.

Per my earlier post it was the kick in the head that I needed to put my foot down, to stop avoiding/accepting piss poor treatment and behavior, to start enforcing boundaries and to mean that to the very point of losing the marriage, if that's what it cost.

Coincidentally and unrelated (not in any way related to the infidelity, which was unknown to them) during the period of time in which Husband and I were processing the infidelity, the FOO dropped a particularly spectacular steaming turd into the family punch bowl, exemplary really even for them, and that's saying something.

Husband, in the midst of his own deep dive into his own dysfunctions and our dysfunctions and piss poor coping mechanisms, saw this sparkly shiny steaming turd with all new eyes.

And he saw boundaries, and the absence of same, with all new eyes.

He recognized a deep and fundamental betrayal and complete absence of respect and basic honesty, an endemic and essential and systemic condition in the FOO.

That was a watershed moment for each of us and for both of us.

Without the experience of the infidelity, without the experience of processing the infidelity, that watershed moment likely would not have occurred. We would have kept right on keeping on with the baked in OS.

For us, the infidelity and its aftermath were like watching a beloved, romantic, idealized, precious and dearly acquired Craftsman Cottage burn down due to outdated, inadequate, fundamentally flawed, over stressed and dangerous electrical wiring. Nobody died, perhaps we both got a little singed but overall we survived largely intact. 'Insurance' paid out: our infrastructure that *we* built, our constructive, conservative, and otherwise healthy disciplines, habits and lifestyle survived and held the center while the fire raged and burned everything else to the ground. And now we have the privilege and possibility and opportunity to build another, modern house with adequate and appropriate systems.

Without this catastrophic event we likely never would have addressed the fundamental flaws.

We were inadequately informed and unaware of the danger. It was simply, the way it was, the way it had always been.

The FOO standard.

We were ignorant and naive.

Our innocence is gone.

Infidelity is the loss of innocence in a marriage.

And yeah, that fucking hurts.

Personally, I'd rather not have the bruise.

But I'd rather not have the outright fatality either.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 11:41 PM, Monday, June 19th]

These threads usually follow the same pattern: BSes that are reconciling successfully and saw clear evidence of remorse, repentance, hard work and most importantly change in their WS, those that worked on their own healing processes as well, stating that it is possible to have a better marriage, albeit different, post infidelity vs BSes who are either in limbo due to various reasons or too early in the healing process stating it is absolutely impossible and that the first group are either delusional (having an ability to sugar coat the situation), either they have bendy morals themselves (considering that infidelity wasn’t a big deal) or that their marriage was really bad prior to dday.

I think that no matter how many times the first BSes come and (re)confirm that they didn’t have a bad marriage prior to DDay, they didn’t believe infidelity wasn’t a big deal, they are not sugar coating the situation but, from a distance of years of healing, individually and together with a hard working remorseful and capable of change WS, they can confirm they have a very good marriage, the second group will continue to deny them their reality.

I used to find those posts insulting, more so as denying someone’s reality is one of the most traumatic events experienced by BSes during the infidelity discovery phase.

From where I’m standing now though, a place of healing and distance from those traumatic first… few years, I can now see it for what it is, a painful reaction/statement to open wounds, wounds that take a very long time to heal even with the most remorseful WS next to you (or without them in your life), let alone healing whilst being in constant limbo.

OP- I’ve been following your story, keep doing what you are doing, you’re doing very well. I don’t post often as I feel that the existing support (SI guides and experienced BSes) can articulate their thoughts better than I can, but there are a few stories I follow and yours is one of them. You’re doing well. You’re holding your WS accountable, you’re questioning the future, you’re healing. You don’t have to justify your desire for some hope that there will be a ray of sunshine at the end of this massive shit sandwich you’re currently dealing with. I can tell you there is, keep at it and you’ll find it.

I hope everyone on this forum finds their path to a place of healing, internal peace and happiness, whatever that path is.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 2:55 PM, Tuesday, June 20th]

I haven’t seen a single post state that the relationship got better because of the infidelity.

I see a lot of posts about people in unhappy relationships and I personally wonder why people settle for that. Why they aren’t working at improving the relationship or – if that isn’t attainable – then why not working at leaving the relationship.

Have used this comparison before: It’s like you have a major health-issue like a cardiac arrest. Once out of the hospital you decide to improve your life. You start eating healthy, start exercising, deal with stress issues like work and money…
It’s hard. You might miss your daily burger and beer. You might ache in the knees from running your daily five miles. You might miss smoking every now and then… But you also reflect ever so often on how you feel better, sleep better, are less stressed… and how you might be in the best shape of your adult life physically and mentally. When you do so you would never think to yourself "thank God I had that cardiac arrest because it changed my life". You might feel some regret at that everything you have done could have been done earlier and without the medical catalyst that led to change.

So yes – the WORK done after d-day can lead to a better relationship and SHOULD lead to a better relationship. If your relationship isn’t better today than it was yesterday – totally irrespective of infidelity – you aren’t doing relationships correctly.

Okay. Here it is!

My marriage is better as the result if my H’s mid life crisis affair.

I don’t let him use avoidance as a tactic to escape discussions or topics he wants to avoid.

I hold him accountable. On everything. If you say "x" you had better do "x".

I am financially in a much better place and very prepared for a financial situation if one occurred.

I have more confidence.

I don’t act like a doormat any longer.

I put myself first. Not him.

We have better communication.

We don’t take each other for granted.

We cherish the second chance we have at this marriage.

Luna, there aren’t words to properly thank you for your post. It was one of those words that hit exactly the right place for me at exactly the right time. I am deeply grateful.

Bigger, at the end of the day I have a similar fish-or-cut-bait, shit-or-get-off-the-pot mentality.

But I also understand limbo. Many times staying in an imperfect, or even deeply flawed, relationship comes out of a healthy sense of responsibility and/or a reasonable conservatism—a better-the-devil-you-know risk aversion that is borne out of human experience over millennia.

When my husband’s affair came to light, I felt stuck. It was the height of the pandemic, and we were in the midst of hospice care for his much-beloved sister, who was dying young, painfully, and slowly of cancer. We had just taken out a second mortgage to build a garage apartment for my mother in law, who was alternating between moving in and sitting at her dying daughter’s bedside. My kids were a hot mess losing their favorite aunt and dealing with covid isolation, and my job was a major source of stress. I had some level of empathy for my husband, who was going through a LOT, but I was deeply enraged at him for blindsiding me with adultery at a time when the cost of divorcing him was simply too high. I could have dealt with the financial loss, stress, and practical upheaval for myself, but I wasn’t about to put that on my already grief-stricken children or my mother in law (a wonderful woman who’s been nothing but good to me). To complicate matters further, my husband worked (still works) with his AP, and there were not good options for him to change jobs.

I’m normally all about choice and agency, but it was hard to figure out what that meant in my situation. So for a while I felt stuck. I actually wanted reconciliation regardless—it was my gut instinct, and I haven’t wavered much from it, even when I learned to let go of outcome—but I loathed feeling like I was in a situation where I didn’t have much of a choice.

Eventually I wrapped my head around the fact that I WAS making a choice, and it was in keeping with my values. In the middle of a storm, my co-captain decided it would be fun and distracting to play with fire, and he blow a hole in the side of our marital ship. We had a lot of important people and valuable cargo depending on that ship to stay afloat, so instead of jumping overboard and swimming for it, I nailed boards over the hole, bailed water like nobody’s business, and concentrated on getting us all through the storm. That was my choice at that point: to do the best I could for myself and the people I loved in the midst of a bad situation.

Once the storm subsided, I took stock of where land was and found lifeboats and mapped out safe ports for my kids and I and my mother in law in case the ship couldn’t be repaired. Which meant I was slowly creating real choices between viable options. And that helped me feel like I have full agency in my decision to rebuild the boat with my co-captain. Which in turn makes me want to do the best rebuild possible. (It helps that he has been steadily working as hard as he can to repair and rebuild, even in times when I’ve been preoccupied with healing myself, identifying exit strategies, or just yelling and handwringing over him blowing up a perfectly good boat).

But even as I believe strongly in choice and agency and proactiveness, I’ve still felt a lot of ambivalence and despair and paralysis and flatness and bitterness along this road. So if you’re in those spaces, I get it. I’ve wasted many a day staring at the water seeping in, wondering whether our marriage was always going to feel like a leaky boat.

But I love my co-captain, and he’s working his ass off, and this ship has seen the seven seas and weathered a lot of storms. It’s precious to me, so I’m choosing to rebuild it as well as we possibly can.

Sorry, I’m meandering a whole hell of a lot in this thread, and mixing metaphors like crazy. But it has really helped me process some things. I’m deeply grateful to all of you. I don’t wish betrayal on anyone, but it’s been immensely helpful to have company on this difficult road.

[This message edited by Grieving at 7:32 PM, Tuesday, June 20th]

I’m curious to hear from those who have weathered the storm, and do have a better marriage, was it worth it? Meaning if you had to go back and make a choice between having the marriage you had before the affair continue in perpetuity, but your partner doesn’t cheat, or you go through what you have and an affair happens, but you end up in a better place. Which do you choose ?

I’m asking this as a binary choice or either or. The answer that we do hear mostly is I’m glad we are in this place, but I wish the affair never happened isn’t a choice.

My guess is most WS if they are honest would choose the first. I’m not discounting that by being in this better place they had to feel tremendous remorse for their affair, and might have had massive fallout by losing friends, going thru STD testing, maybe having their kids tested for DNA. But at the end of the day, they came out of the disaster they created in a better place, and still had the excitement of an affair. I do recognize that they probably look back on the affair with disgust, but they still had the experience.

The BS had all of the pain from above, probably magnified by 100, and never had the excitement of an affair. So the question is if you could turn back time, was it worth it if this was the only way to get where you are now ?

WWTL,

If you’re asking to make a choice between the marriage I thought I had pre and during affair vs the one I have now, I’d selfishly choose the first. I was happy. I didn’t have the closeness with spouse as I do now, but I was content with where we were. He was a miserable mess that had nothing to do with me. So I say selfishly I’d choose the first because husband would still be a ball of anxiety and depression. I’d be blissfully naive to all of it and wouldn’t know I was missing the relationship I have now. But, if I had to choose between the marriage I have now (which is oddly better, but I’d never have chosen the pain to get here) or divorcing, I’d obviously choose my marriage of today. And if you compare the marriage pre and post d day today’s relationship is tremendously better. Admittedly though, I’d never have chosen the pain it took getting here. I think it’s rare for humans to choose a painful path without knowing where it leads. 🤷‍♀️

Other side, that is an understandable and well thought out answer. I’m glad you did end up in a better place.

I’m curious to hear from those who have weathered the storm, and do have a better marriage, was it worth it? Meaning if you had to go back and make a choice between having the marriage you had before the affair continue in perpetuity, but your partner doesn’t cheat, or you go through what you have and an affair happens, but you end up in a better place. Which do you choose ?

The latter. My marriage before DDay was problematic, to say the least. DDay was when everything got dragged out into the sunshine and we got real.

I feel bad for those who had what they thought was a good marriage and then got blindsided on DDay. For me, although it was an incredible shock, everything suddenly made sense. My H cheated for the first time less than two years in, then again about ten years in, and then again 16 years in. Infidelity was always the undercurrent and I felt it, even if I didn't know what it was. My spidey senses knew. My gut knew. Finally, I knew too.

So yeah, I'll take post-DDay authenticity.

I’m curious to hear from those who have weathered the storm, and do have a better marriage, was it worth it? Meaning if you had to go back and make a choice between having the marriage you had before the affair continue in perpetuity, but your partner doesn’t cheat, or you go through what you have and an affair happens, but you end up in a better place. Which do you choose?

I think it is a slightly unfair way to ask the question because you’re attributing the change to the actual affair when in fact the change comes from the amount of work put in given the strong adversity experienced as a consequence of the affair. I’m not sure if perhaps that’s not often highlighted on this forum and a lot of people expect their marriage to magically become better once their spouse cheated, full stop.

What I mean to say is that my new marriage is not a consequence of my husband screwing around but a consequence of years, almost 6, of hard work and ugly truths on both sides triggered by the traumatic event of infidelity. Not all cheaters are willing to put in the work and truly look in the mirror, not all BSes are willing to work on themselves and their growth either. A lot of people that have experienced infidelity sadly remain stuck in a loop of unhappiness together for a variety of reasons which I won’t go into.

I have a friend that lost her mother unexpectedly at a very early age and that sad event triggered a huge amount of work on herself in her quest to process the trauma. It affected all areas of her life, similar to infidelity trauma, it affected the way she saw the world and she experienced suicidal ideation for a good few years. Following the work she put in as a result of losing her mother (therapy, books, changes in thinking patterns) led to her becoming the person she is today. I think it would be unfair to ask her if she’d rather not lose her mother and be the person she was before, it would wipe out the fantastic progress she made and the healthy, amazing human she became as a result of it.

Life is a series of events that lead to shaping us into who we are at a certain point in time. Unfortunately true growth rarely comes instinctively, it mostly comes out of adversity and it is directly proportionate to it.

Now to answer your question (after that long winded monologue 😬): no, I would not go back to what we had pre affair as I have outgrown that marriage. I can’t forget what I know now.

It was a pretty good marriage, we both thought so funnily enough, he even told our MC this. My WH had a "work hours only" affair and displayed no signs of wishing to replace me in his life. Like most affairs, it was about the 20% more he could get…He spent all his out of work hours with me and the kids doing family stuff even during the affair. It was a "it just happened" type of affair, in fact my WH tried to convince me he loved us both on dday.

He was an involved father, loving husband, we had sex weekly, never argued, did everything together, he earned 3 times as much as me, worked hard to ensure we had what we needed and I and my entire family had him on a pedestal as the perfect man and husband. I actually think men in my family and within our friends circle resented him secretly for being so perfect. (A friend at a time told me "if even HE cheated then there’s no hope…")

And yet his affair did happen, he did make that choice and it revealed the imbalance in our marriage, it shone a light on cracks that none of us knew were there.

No arguing? Ha, I used to be proud of it. In reality we were two conflict avoidant people building a mountain of resentment.

Spending all our time together? None of us felt like we could have any individual quality time spend on personal hobbies as the other may not like it and it took time away from the family, this led to dissatisfaction with our own lives, we both felt we have lost who we were as individuals.

The financial imbalance also led to an imbalance of power, I often felt that WH had the right to make final financial decisions because he earned more (to note that I was also employed full time). He believed that too but later on we realised that it was a lack of real commitment making him feel like he needed to shield himself in all respects including financially.

I could go on and on with examples of those cracks. Cracks existing because of our own personal FOO experience and trauma. For example I grew up in a toxic environment hence why I was thrilled to find a conflict avoidant husband who would never argue. I had to learn that conflict can bring resolution in a variety of ways and it has to be dealt with. WH grew up in a bendy moral household where is mum (single woman with two kids) was the ow of a married man… WH cheated with a single woman with two kids and he was rescuing the shit out of her.

So much baggage had to be unpacked and so much work has been done…

In conclusion: by all standards I had a very happy marriage pre dday, an involved and loving husband and father to my kids, nice holidays abroad, I drove a nice car and lived in a nice house. We got along really well, never argued and our sex life was pretty good.

I would not go back to that marriage knowing what I know now. It would be impossible. My own personal growth is something I’m really proud of and that type of marriage would not suit me anymore, I wouldn’t accept it, I have higher standards now.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 10:19 PM, Wednesday, June 21st]

I think I’d have to say (honestly) I would not have grown myself if not for the affair.

I have waaay more confidence now.

I have waaay more independence now.

I’m not afraid of the future.

I am much more prepared financially.

I don’t back down from tough conversations.

And I hold him accountable. And I don’t allow him to say I’ve thing and do the opposite any longer.

I come first. Before his 2nd affair, he came first.

I now see my H for who he is. Not some rose colored glass version of who he is.

My H was always good to me. He spoiled me and never missed a birthday or anniversary. He was a very involved parent. He supported me in my goals and work and charity events I did.

I was always appreciative. I recognized his efforts. I didn’t complain about petty stuff. I gave him freedom to play sports or hang with his friends. I made his life as easy as possible. Not anymore.

This question is not easily answered in all honesty. But I will try to be brief, and not just repeat others...

Even though I am a strong, emotionally balanced person, I am forever scarred by the experiences my fWW put me through. I am certain, that no matter what marriage I would find myself in, either reconciled with my fWW or in a new marriage, I will never have the marriage that I lived before Dday. So I have had to look at the "better after infidelity" through that lens. I am forever changed in my outlook and level of trust of anyone.

Through that lens, I decided to stay. If I remove the portion of our relationship that is scarred from this relationship, it is much better. The A revealed layers of dis-function, FOO issues like emotional neglect, her own scars, and long un-diagnosed chronic depression. She has slowly worked her way through those issues. It has taken so long because she did not even have a language for how to express her challenges before getting help in IC and working on herself. fWW is healthier and happier than I have seen her since we were in college. Probably more so. She has a great relationship now with our grown sons, and she is more outgoing and enthusiastic than I have ever seen her. She has learned to put boundaries on her relationships and I have seen her self-esteem rise to a point that if someone were to come on to her now, instead of getting all gushy eyed and swoon, she would be offended and maybe even angry. Much of this work has made our relationship so much better than the reality of our marriage before the A (as opposed to the illusion that I was living).

It was worth the work. I have also worked on myself, I am stronger, and more loving, not just to her but others. I changed jobs, and I work less (but get paid more!) I have helped her in her healing and I have worked hard to heal too.

I don't think that somehow, magically, my scars would have healed if I had left her to find a new relationship or even to be alone. That trauma would still be a part of my life. Just finding a new relationship or being alone would not have healed those traumas better or worse than the healing I have done staying with a spouse who chose me in the end.

What I am trying to say is: yes it is better, but the trauma remains. What if we had come to the realization that we had to do the work without the A happening? Who knows, this kind of trauma motivates a couple in ways no other trauma can motivate. If she had come to me and said "I have some problems" would we have worked so hard? Hard to tell.

In the end, it is what it is, and all I can control is how I learn and grow from it. I think I am doing both, and so is she. The result has been worth the effort.

I'm one who had a good M pre-A and who thinks the work we did and continue to do has made me happier than I would have been if the old M had just continued.

When I joined SI, there was an active thread in JFO called something like 'It's not the A that made your M better; it's the work you did after the A.'

I will say that, IMO, you won't get a great M after an A unless you think it's possible.

IMO, both D & R can be good choices, depending on what the BS wants. Both D & R can be bad choices, especially when a BS makes decisions based on ideology and not the facts on the ground and what the BS truly wants.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:25 PM, Friday, June 23rd]

When you do so you would never think to yourself "thank God I had that cardiac arrest because it changed my life". You might feel some regret at that everything you have done could have been done earlier and without the medical catalyst that led to change.

This rings really true for me.

This question, in all its various versions always makes me uncomfortable because while I think my marriage now is better than the the marriage I had pre-A, I wouldn't credit the A for it. The A nearly broke me and I thank it for absolutely nothing. I will never be grateful for it and I would not wish it upon anyone. But yes, the A was a major catalyst for change and radical honesty and the work my husband and I did on ourselves and on our relationship post D-day has absolutely resulted in a more intimate, more honest (and I don't mean "honest" as in the opposite of untruthful), relationship. I don't know if we would have gotten to this place had it not been for the A.

I kind of think of our relationship as being a house. The house was mostly fine before - good even. A the time, I thought it was a dream house. Then the A burnt our house to the ground - it was traumatic and scary and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.... It nearly killed us. Amongst the rubble, I came to realize that there were some foundation flaws and perhaps some moisture ingress that would have eventually caused some problems down the line. Instead of ruminating about the fire, or mourning our prior house, we decided to rebuild. This time to our own individual specifications. I love our new house - I am more confident in its ability to withstand the elements. I loved our old house too, but I don't wish I still lived there. Certainly no one should have to experience the fire.

Thank you, emergent. ❤️