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So, if you’re a few years out from Dday and are on the reconciliation path, is your relationship better than before? If so, in what ways? And how did it get better?

I think you can all understand that I would see 'a few years out from d-day' as a critical element in these questions. I'm pretty far from d-day, after all.

Look, your thoughts and feelings about being betrayed will change over time. Based on my reading here and elsewhere, it looks like people a year or 2 out have a lot in common, and we diverge from that. The rule of thumb here for recovery is 2-5 years. R(econciliation) requires more work than recovering from being betrayed, so my reco is to think even longer term.

R is an individual effort. It's not a contest. What one couple does and how they think and feel about each other doesn't have much relationship with what other couples think about their Ms. A few of us think R is going great - but 1, 2, 5 years after d-day, it turns out that R was false - either because of yet another fuck-up by the WS or because the BS realizes they don't want to spend the rest of their lives (or another minute) with their WS, even if their WS is truly doing everything right.

It makes no sense to me to enter R expecting anything less than an M that is better than before the A(s).After all, the pre-A M was vulnerable to an A, and I can't see wanting to go back to that. If you don't think a better M is possible or desirable, my reco would be to D. Likewise, if you see R as a competition with other Ms, I don't see how R can work well.

IMO, R has to come from within. It has to be an expression of what each of you wants as individuals. It has to be a joint effort. It requires honesty within and between each individual. It has to result in an M all individuals in the M want, and it has to allow for wanting to be together as wants and reality change.

IMO, if you R, you build the M you are willing to work for and the M that fits your preconceptions. If you think R is a shit sandwich, it will be a shit sandwich (and I don't understand why anyone would choose that). If you enter R thinking the WS's A(s) were exciting or fulfilling or immensely pleasurable or immensely positive in some other way you value, you'll probably have a lot of resentment, and that's a barrier to R and to your own healing. (I didn't commit to R until I came to believe what my W said about her A. It was not any sort of relationship I wanted.)

So back to your questions.

Yeah, I think our M is better than it would have been without the A. I wish my W had chosen a less painful way to hit her rock bottom, but she didn't.

I don't have the words to describe the ways in which our M is better, but I think it's better in every way. I simply can't think of a way in which it's worse except that my W's A smashed many illusions - but I think smashing illusion is a Good Thing. Sometimes I miss the innocence illusion; most of the time I don't.

Our M got better because we became more honest with each ourselves and with each other. We raise issues and resolve them. Working together builds healthy bonds. Resolving issues reduces stress and frees more energy for pleasure. And we keep getting more honest with ourselves as we learn lessons from our lives.

*****

The wisest thing I heard after d-day was that R requires 3 healings: BS heals BS; WS heals WS; together they (re)build the M.

I had to heal myself. I got help, but I had to do the work. My W provided support, but she could do nothing to heal me. But I was the only one who truly knew my pain, and I was the only one who could do the work that would heal me.

My W had to heal herself. She got lots of help and my support. But she was the only one who truly knew her pain, and she was the only one who could do the work that would heal her.

And we rebuilt our M together, although it looks a lot like our original M was supposed to be - 2 individuals who chose to be together. We always loved each other, and we always made room for each other's individuality.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:38 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

But what does seem to be a theme in when the marriage gets better, is it was pretty crappy before, or one of the partners had some serious issues that got addressed in the reconciliation process.

I do wonder sometimes if this is the case.

For me, it’s pretty clear that my husband’s affair was not about me. I mean, I went through all the self loathing and questioning and destruction of self-esteem that comes with your partner cheating on you, but at the end of the day, what I land on is that I was a good spouse, and we had a good marriage. What happened is we were in the middle of a long, horrible slog of caring for his sister as she slowly died of cancer, we both had stressful jobs that got more stressful in the pandemic, and he was having lots of midlife crisis-y feelings. At that moment, the opportunity for an affair presented itself, and he took it.

From that perspective, I don’t feel like we had these really problematic, deep-seated issues that affair recovery is giving us an opportunity to work on. For us it’s just affair recovery—trying to heal from the damage of infidelity. Sometimes it feels analogous to a devastating back injury I suffered some years ago. I worked hard, did all the therapy, gave it time, and I am mostly healed now. But my back will never be as strong as it was, and it still hurts sometimes. I live with an altered physical reality. And sometimes I wonder whether this is just the new, post injury reality of our marriage. It’s fine and I’m grateful for the healing and have learned a lot through the experience, but post-affair marriage may never be as whole and healthy as pre-affair marriage.

But maybe, just like with my back, injury gives me a new appreciation for health. I don’t stop exercising and working on my health just because I’ll never get back to what I was—I keep working because I want the best health possible for me now, and I’m grateful for the level of health I have. Similarly, shouldn’t stop working on my marriage just because it might never be what it was again; I should work because I want the best possible marriage, whatever that is.

Edited to add: I cannot figure out the quote function even after a year and a half on this site.

[This message edited by Grieving at 5:41 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Sisoon you should pin that post!

And regarding this as seen in other posts:

But what does seem to be a theme in when the marriage gets better, is it was pretty crappy before, or one of the partners had some serious issues that got addressed in the reconciliation process.

Believe it or not, we had a great 30 year marriage in many aspects, but *at the same time* some really dangerous lurking Creature of the Black Lagoon issues as well. *Both things can be true*, and that really came as a surprise to both of us. I'm not saying the offender doesn't carry a lionshare of the responsibilty of healing the marriage, but certainly my personal healing was complex, and had to come from me.

So the recovery process *did* work (or it seems to be) in that we were finally ready to address and really work on these issues in therapy, 3 years of individual (apiece) and 2 years of joint so far.

But I can really only speak for myself, and my personal recovery has been a life-changer, and this is independent of my marriage or what becomes of it. I don't think I could have gotten there without my individual therapy.

I stick around because I'm still learning and processing and to promote two issues: 1) No rugsweeping, no rugsweeping, no rugsweeping (unless you want another DDay, or worse--years of personal and marital frustration--I had both).

And 2) Good therapy can save your life!

Some will say yes. Some say everything is fantastic..which is just so odd TO ME.

Some will say no.

I think it mostly depends on the WSs willingness to do the work,and the BSs ability to process,and move forward.

My marriage was wonderful. We were very happy. He would say the same. I am fortunate, in that he never once blamed me. He said,and maintains, that I was an amazing wife. And he's right. I was very good to him. I loved him with my entire soul. He still cheated. So..yeah. People do actually cheat in very happy marriages,with great spouses.

Personally, *I* don't see how anyone can have an amazing marriage,after one spouse has sex with another person during the marriage. Add in the trauma,lies, etc. In MY opinion, infidelity is abuse. Extreme abuse.

I..again..note that I said *I*..liken it to a plate that has been shattered. Glue it back together, but there will always be signs that it was once fractured.

I don't trust as much. I don't allow myself to be completely vulnerable. A lot of things get the side eye, even though it's nothing to be concerned about. I'm healed. I am not angry. I don't get triggered. It simply is what it is. It happened. It no longer hurts. But..it DID happen. And I can't simply forget.

It's been nearly 15 years since dday. Any issues we have are normal marital issues. We have moved on from the affair.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:52 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

If it isn't better then you're in the same toxic/abusive relationship as before.

The implication that an affair can improve a marriage us like suggesting someone go out and get addicted to Crack to improve their marriage, then work through all the horrible shit to come out better for it.

Our marriage was a shitshow before DDay. We married young (20/21) and had an unplanned pregnancy immediately. He had a ONS before our second anniversary, which meant that huge lie was simmering below the surface (along with two more As) for the next fourteen years. There was a lot of distrust on both sides before everything came to light.

We tell each other all the time that we're so grateful for the shift that occurred as a result of the truth coming to the surface and subsequent transparency and other skills that we learned in MC, but, like others said, we wish that we had been able to get there without the trauma of infidelity.

I'm slowly learning, almost 19 years later, that I've probably been minimizing the tremendous trauma that I experienced as a result of his betrayal. I'm waiting on a call back from a therapist to start IC, which I've never done. I've only done MC. H has started IC for his childhood trauma. I wish that we had done IC 19 years ago. We'd probably be in a better spot today. Not that things are bad, but I don't think I'd still be thinking about infidelity and posting on SI again if I had worked through it. It's a wound that I feel the need to pick at constantly.

The good part - the part where I can affirm that the relationship is better - is that I can share everything with my H. We're vulnerable and transparent with each other. We like each other. I don't worry about him cheating again, because I truly believe that he wouldn't do that to me again, and he definitely wouldn't do it to himself.

tl;dr: The relationship is much, much better because it's authentic.

ETA:

The wisest thing I heard after d-day was that R requires 3 healings: BS heals BS; WS heals WS; together they (re)build the M.

I had to heal myself. I got help, but I had to do the work. My W provided support, but she could do nothing to heal me. But I was the only one who truly knew my pain, and I was the only one who could do the work that would heal me.

My W had to heal herself. She got lots of help and my support. But she was the only one who truly knew her pain, and she was the only one who could do the work that would heal her.

And we rebuilt our M together, although it looks a lot like our original M was supposed to be - 2 individuals who chose to be together. We always loved each other, and we always made room for each other's individuality.

Brilliant.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:17 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Some relationships get better after infidelity. It totally depends on how willing both partners are in doing the work. In my case, my WH was my greatest source of healing. That part is crucial. Obviously, the WS has got to break things off with the AP and have absolutely no more contact. The WS has got to cooperate and do the work, be totally honest, transparent, trustworthy, and loving. The WS must give the BS total access to passwords, cell phones, social media - all devices. He or she must be willing to have a tracker on their car so that they can be located at all times. The WS must be willing to answer questions that are going to be extremely uncomfortable, but the BS has to have answers before any healing can occur.
I am so fortunate that my husband was totally willing to do all of the above and cooperate and participate in my healing and recovery. Recovering from the EA was hard enough, but then I discovered that he had lied for 20 years and told me they never had sex. He finally got to the point that he could not lie anymore to me and told me the truth – that they did have sex. After that is when he got serious about my recovery because he saw what it had done to me. My anger and rage were out of control. I turned into a different person. He did everything possible and he did all the right things. He was incredibly patient with me. 4 1/2 years after DDay, I still get triggered and get angry and upset although not as much as before.
No, I definitely am not glad the affair happened, but I know we would not have the marriage that we have now if it had not been for the affair. So for us, the answer is yes. Our relationship is better after my husband’s infidelity.

Hard knocks, it’s YOUR a post I would love to pin.

"It can be both"

Those are simple words but they are true and unlock a lot of thoughts.

My marriage was happy prior to the affair. Some of it was due to suppression, and what was happening fitting our dysfunctions. The affairs caused those things to float to the surface. So there were problems to fix all along but we were happy.

In the beginning no matter a bs or a ws- focus on healing yourself. I agree- therapy was the way to go for us. And it’s applies to so much more in your life than just your marriage. My life is unrecognizable to where it was as I started this process In every way. I move through the world differently.

In reconciliation, I have found I can be forever sorry about what I did. But I can forever hold my head high about what I chose to do about it. And I can say I will always hate what he did too, but I still move forward with a focus on love knowing he is a good man.

I choose that because he worked on himself and has earned back my trust. (And vice versa). For any deficit he has left in that trust, I fill it with trust in myself. In the off chance he reoffends, I know I can walk away and that I will land on my feet because I will make it so. Trust was blind between us before, and I believe it’s been restored to the extent it’s going to be. But that 5 percent or 3 percent, that’s me knowing I have my own back. And it should have ALWAYS been the case.

It’s not always possible to reconcile, but even then the gifts you give yourself in healing are ones you get to take with you. It takes both people coming into alignment with a higher version of themselves. All the shitty things in our life offer opportunities to become better or worse. That healing is important for you, first and foremost and is needed no matter the path you take.

"It can be both" forms so many sentences and paragraphs that I could go on, but I will stop here. Thank you for that post.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:59 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Nope. Like someone else said, worse for me, probably better for him.

We had a great marriage before. Lots of sex, lots of laughter, tons of validation on both sides. D-Day hit me like a freight train, I was so unprepared for it. I knew he was a flirt, but I really never thought he'd actually fuck someone else.

He was and remains a selfish, self loathing, but still somehow entitled, dick-swinging BMOC. He recognizes it a bit better now and tries to identify and even out his behavior.

Now I get to wonder for the rest of my marriage if he made "those" sounds with his AP, if he laughed about those things with her, what he may have told her about me (he denied ever trash-talking me, but who knows.) Or if he's found a new schmoopie and is just a lot better about hiding it.

The only thing better for me is that I don't play marriage police anymore. If I find something new, I'm just about at Meh, so fuck em both and happy trails.

ETA: I'm 8 years post "big" D-Day.

[This message edited by Trapped74 at 9:55 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Honestly, I think it depends. For a WS, I think it is almost always a better deal, if reconciling. I mean, they had their little selfish ego-boost for months, years sometimes, they had the sex and validation they longed for, they had the excitation, the newness plus the comfort of the BS... And now they get to work on their flaws and get a better, more transparent relationship than before. A win-win situation of some sort...

This seems to be true. I am only 10 weeks from finding out. It was 2 happy ending massages. I am hoping to get over it and move on. He is beyond devastated with the pain he has caused me. We had a good marriage, so I thought. But I am very much resenting the amount of work I now have to do in order to reconcile. He has done everything right since I caught him but I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is so hard. But I find some hope in some of these posts. But totally agree on another point made. It seems like it gets better because it wasn't so good before and this is a turning point. We were good. We were experiencing high levels of stress from the outside but we as a team were good. He was depressed, like really depressed and I didn't see how bad it was. Not blaming myself in the least. He made a very poor choice and now has to live with that. And unfortunately so do I.

[This message edited by oonly4me at 4:48 AM, Wednesday, June 7th]

I’m beyond grateful for all of your responses. Sisoon and HardKnocks, the two of you have especially given me food for thought. Thank you all. I will be reading and re-reading this thread for a while, I suspect.

Grieving

I’m beyond grateful for all of your responses. Sisoon and HardKnocks, the two of you have especially given me food for thought. Thank you all. I will be reading and re-reading this thread for a while, I suspect.

Dear Grieving,

I also found Sisoon's post very interesting, and I believe it should be pinned too. I understand what you're going through, as a matter of fact our As are quite similar : wife of 20 years, two kids, found out 09/2020 of a six months affair with some dude she went to work with. We're also reconciling, but in the light of the useful responses I got here, I wouldn't say we reconciled yet. But I feel the same as you do, I sometimes get the feeling of flatness you're describing. This can be really hard to cope with at times.

I don't really have anything to add as I am coming up on one year since DDay but reading the responses has been a good experience.

I will say that the person I am now is better than the person I was one to two years ago. I feel that person suspected something was going on and became a shell of themselves. I have pulled myself out of a hole. I work out four days a week. I have started a side business and I am a wonderful mother who is not prone to anxiety episodes as much.

My WH is a much better person so far. He is a conflict avoidant people pleaser who was previously unable to speak his thoughts and feelings. That has changed. He no longer avoids me when I am in the darkness.

Honestly, I think it depends. For a WS, I think it is almost always a better deal, if reconciling. I mean, they had their little selfish ego-boost for months, years sometimes, they had the sex and validation they longed for, they had the excitation, the newness plus the comfort of the BS... And now they get to work on their flaws and get a better, more transparent relationship than before. A win-win situation of some sort...

But they also get to carry the terrible load of knowing that they devastated the person whom they love the most. If they're at all empathetic, which I believe is a requisite for R, there's a ton of guilt and pain there for them, too. You couldn't pay me to switch places with my WS.

I’ll put it this way:

There is NOTHING more precious than time.
It’s the classic line-of-thought: The minutes I take from my day to write this post are minutes I can never get back. Each minute is a minute of this candle called life that eventually burns out.
Marriage is probably the biggest commitment you voluntarily enter and voluntarily stay in. If you marry at 25 and live to 85… that’s a large part of the candle…
Bigger than parenthood IMHO because the burden of that role is "only" about 20 years before the role changes significantly.

Why settle for less?
Why settle for mediocre or bad?
Why settle for spending 70% of your candle in unhappiness – or at best meh…?

I doubt there is a single marriage in human history that improved because of an affair.
But there are countless marriages – and probably all good marriages – that improved when the participants put the work into them.

Reconciliation is so misunderstood. Its not about not cheating, although that definitely is a major milestone. That is IMHO the most common misconception – your spouse no longer has sex with AP and therefore you are reconciled. That’s like if your doctor tells you that your daily lunch of a Whopper, fries and a shake will eventually kill you, so you switch to KFC with fries and a soda. The real solution might actually be to exercise and eat healthy.

If you reconcile you are committing to improving communications, talking about needs, goals, aims… Agreeing to how to give to the relationship. How to minimize confrontations – not by ignoring them but by handling them constructively.

Doing this one-sided doesn’t work. BOTH need to work at reconciling. That often requires you do a lot of work on yourself. Learn to not fear making demands, learn to listen, learn to set goals, learn to feel validated and how to validate, love and be loved, respect and be respected. If both do that and both realize they want THIS marriage the marriage becomes better.

But it’s due to the work – not the affair.

If you were to change from hamburgers and fries every lunch to healthier options and exercise, then a year later you wouldn’t attribute your improved health to the burgers. Not any more than you should attribute a reconciled marriage to the infidelity.
Sad thing is that whatever gain you make could have been reached before and without the affair.

This thread has been very helpful to me as well. Grieving we have had similar experiences although I am only 15 months past d day. I also had a very good marriage and my WH said he was not unhappy. I think it is harder to deal with in some ways because you just want to feel like you did before the affair. My WH is also very remorseful and really working on himself and improving. Some of you that are further out have been helpful in giving more long term perspectives. I have the same feeling of flatness, loss of romance and honestly a bit of apathy which is very unlike me. But I think I am still recovering to a degree.

You're very welcome, Hiking Out, and I'm glad someone else can feel the power of that truth.

"It can be both" saved me in many ways. I learned that with respect to who FWS was as a person, who I was as a person, and what our marriage was, and could be.

Continued good healing and pleasant journeys for you and your spouse!

I suspect in many instances one spouse, mostly cheater, thinks the cheating helped...

They got to compare the OM/OW to their spouse and decided to stay relieving their feelings of indecision and loss.

They got wonderful experiences which enriched and expanded them as a person and partner

They got memories of love which made them a better person and partner

They learned sexual tricks they never would have explored/allowed with their spouse, which they now shared with their spouse

They got experiences with the OM/OW they can now think about when having sex with their spouse

You're welcome, Grieving.

All the best to you!

I agree with those who say the WS probably feels they have a better marriage. A big reason for affairs is the need for external validation. And, what is more validating than having not only an AP ,and an affair and all the feelings that go along with that..but to also have a spouse who loves you so much that they want to stay with you,and endure an enormous amount of pain, because the thought of being without you is unthinkable. Ego kibble all around.

I'm sure some are devastated that they caused their BS so much pain. We have a select few truly remorseful FWS here. But,not all ws are devastated after an affair. The posts in General,the forum,and eventually the divorce forum, are proof of that.