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Newest Member: Angry2022

Just Found Out :
How to move past the pain, or can you?

Topic is Sleeping.
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 5:16 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Hi all,

New to the forum. DD for me was ~2 months ago. Husband had an affair with someone I thought was a friend. I found out from a mutual friend. He would not come clean until I begged and pleaded and poked so much he finally admitted to sex 'a few times,' obviously not true. It was a full blown affair for what he says 1 year (2019-2020), but then they tried to go back to being friends and kept her around. However, I saw her pursuing him last summer but he was not reciprocating at that point. I did ask over the last few years so many times and said they seemed too close, etc. but it always turned to gaslighting and denial.

We have had our sets of issues like all couples but of course I did not expect this. I was frustrated with him on many levels and a few years ago (around start of affair I'm guessing) I was in what Gottman would describe as full contempt.

I just really need some support here. I am struggling with the pain, it is so deep and hurts to the core. To the point where it is a knot in my stomach and bubbles up into tears. I have moved through all of the stages of grief and keep cycling through them.

He is doing everything right, listening to the podcasts I send him, reading articles and books as requested and on his own, we'd done some couples therapy and more to come and I'm also in individual therapy. Of course promises this will never happen again (means nothing) and he has opened up his accounts and has enabled location tracking- so what!

I guess I want to know, at what point do you decide to keep going or cut your losses. I love him very much and we have an incredible family life with our three kids (school aged). But I'm not sure I can be with someone now that I know his true colours and I have said this reconciliation is a one time gift, I will not grant this again (VERY CLEARLY).

How do you go on every day? Do you feel this awful every day? At what point is it better? Seeing him is a constant reminder of the pain but being away from him isn't much better. Is there any point to put in more safeguards in place? Doorbell cameras? Post nuptual agreements? Or am I just dreaming here.

Looking for support and no judgement please. I've already beaten myself up for how I could go back in time and catch onto this sooner or safeguard my marriage better. Or how I could have been so foolish.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795066
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 5:24 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Only you can ultimately decide if he’s worth keeping or cutting loose. It will take time, and he should know his words are no longer enough. Pay attention to his actions. He also needs individual therapy to figure out how and why he let himself do this.

Do not take blame for his cheating if he’s tried to or MC tried to. Whatever issues he thought he had should have been communicated to you instead of used as an excuse to f*ck someone else for an entire year.

Have you both completely cut ties with this friend? Any friend who does this is not a friend of the marriage. If there is any remnant of a link between them, it will always be a door.

You can also get a post nuptial if it will make you feel more secure, but make sure it’s ironclad and go over it with legal counsel.

Won’t sugarcoat it: this sh!t is painful and the only way out is through. Take the time to just take care of yourself; time for you to be a little selfish now.

One last thing I’ll leave you with is that you can do everything you can to keep the marriage happy and healthy, but sometimes they’ll still find a reason to cheat. At that point, it’s no longer on you to keep them faithful.

Sorry you’ve had to join this club. Good luck.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 5:45 PM, Tuesday, June 13th]

posts: 556   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8795067
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 5:51 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

First: you are safe here. People here have gone through the same thing. Experienced same level of betrayal, pain, trauma, etc. So, they understand your situation better than most. You need not worry about them being judgmental of you.

Second: welcome to this best club of unfortunates. The purpose of this site is to restore the agency of betrayed spouses so that they can take control of the life, heal, and escape the infidelity. This site carries great wisdom. So, stick around.

Third: your dday was 2 months ago. It is said from the collective wisdom of this site that healing and reconciliation takes 2 to 5 years. So, 2 months is still too early, and pain and suffering are still fresh and raw.

Fourth: it is said that it is not the affair that kills the marriage. it's what happens after dday. Trickle truth, gaslight, blameshifting, manipulating etc etc are all mental abuse and they make life of BS and condition of marriage very difficult. The biggest source of pain during this time is the loss of control over your life. There is also loss of identity. You constantly feel that everything you built and lived for with your partner was all a lie and temporary. This loss of control and identity pushes you into a crisis where you start questioning yourself, doubting your ability, intelligence and worth. You need to past this crisis to restore your agency. You need to realize and embrace the truth that your husband's affair was not your fault. There was nothing you could have done that could've prevented him from betraying you. You may not believe this now. But, this is the truth. You will realize it eventually. When you do, you will pass the first crisis.

Fifth: Have you reached out to IC? Has your husband reached out to IC? You should read the healing library of this forum. You should read some books recommended in this forum that will help you if you are codependent, or if you want to know why it wasn't fault that your husband cheated.

Sixth: Do you have some std tests? Is AP a married woman? If yes, then you should inform her husband to restore his agency and to make sure she is fully out of your life and your marriage. Also, don't yet believe that you have the full truth of his affair.

Lastly, take what you want from the site and leave the rest. Good luck.

posts: 459   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8795068
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 5:56 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Welcome to SI, the best club nobody wants to join. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that you may find helpful, and the Healing Library has tons of great information (including a list of the acronyms we use).

First, you both need to get STI/STD tested. If you need meds for depression or sleep, see your doctor. Hydrate and eat, even if it's protein shakes. Try to get some good sleep, and take care of you. Recovering from infidelity can take years. Approximately 2-5 years for you to heal, then longer if you R (reconcile).

Your M (marriage) didn't cheat, your WH (Wayward Husband) did. Generally, it's recommended that you each do IC (individual counseling) until you're healed and then MC (Marriage Counseling). There are some MCs that are good, but many blameshift. Some of the first words out of our Gottman-trained MC's mThe chuth were, "We'll find out why Mr. Fields felt he needed to go outside the M to get his needs met." I respectfully disagreed because if that were true, I would have been the one to cheat.

The cheating was 100% on him. Nothing you did or didn't do, say or didn't say, looked or didn't look caused him to cheat. It was his 100% his conscious decision to betray.

AP needs to go. Your WH should be NC with her. He should be driving the R bus, not you. R is a long, difficult journey even with both partners fully committed to the work. What is he doing to become a safe partner?

I'll recommend two books. First, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is specifically for the WS (wayward spouse) and gives a lot of insight into what he needs to do to help you.

Second, Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. Her chapter on windows and walls was so helpful to me to be able to discuss with my XWH about boundaries with people outside of our M.

For me, I gave myself 6-month increments to evaluate whether my XWH was doing the work or not. At about a year, I could see that he really wasn't doing much to change. Then, he wanted to try MC, so I did just to know that I did everything possible. Well, in MC he confessed to crossing my hard boundary and had inappropriate contact with another female, so we are now D. It took me 18 months to get there. There are others that know far sooner.

The emotional rollercoaster is very real. It wasn't until about 12 months after Dday 1 that the pain wasn't as much. I was still having terrible nightmares, but the day-to-day pain was less.

The pain does get better with time as you process through it. Hang in there, and ask questions. We've been where you are.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3935   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8795069
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 6:39 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Thank you, I've read through the Healing library and have read Shirley Glass cover to cover and am now re reading the pertinent parts. I discovered a great podcast too "healing broken trust" on Spotify which is helpful.

We no longer have any contact with the 'friend' (she has a much better nickname in my mind but won't share that here).

I think the two worst parts right now are the out of body feeling that tends to come and go, the 'is this really my life or a movie?' and also the fact that I'm not sure how to go on with him.

I have also given myself 6 months before I am even able to think about this decision, from what I can tell and have read I am not thinking clearly to come to terms with any of this yet. He is love bombing hard but I just wonder 'is it all too late.' Everything has lost its magic at this point. Did you all feel like you were living with this shadow hanging over you? It feels like it's all coated in filth at this point. Nothing that brought me joy has the same level of joy any more and for good reason, but boy what a gross feeling!

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795079
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 7:01 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Did you all feel like you were living with this shadow hanging over you? It feels like it's all coated in filth at this point. Nothing that brought me joy has the same level of joy any more and for good reason, but boy what a gross feeling!

Yeah, it’s like a stain that doesn’t go away. Every memory that’s made during the affair is tainted. You were doing this while your partner was doing this with the AP, your partner and the AP were doing this during what should be a fun getaway trip for the two of you, etc. What was real and what wasn’t? So mind breaking and unnecessary, the pain they cause.

In my honest opinion, I don’t think reconciliation isn’t building a better marriage, but creating a whole new one from the ashes. The previous one was completely burned down.

Be wary of the lovebombing. That will only last for a time before annoyance sets in and he might ask why you aren’t over it yet. Don’t let him tell you how long you have to heal and you’ll heal on your terms.

posts: 556   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8795087
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 7:21 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

the out of body feeling that tends to come and go

That's called dissociation, and is a trauma response. That should go away as you feel more grounded and back in your reality.

Lovebombing is a form of manipulation. He's trying to get your hormones to override your thinking process. You have every right to tell him to back off and give you space to think. You might feel that doing a soft 180 might be helpful in giving you some emotional distance so you can begin to think straight.

Post-nups are state-specific as to whether they're allowable or not. You may want to see a lawyer to see what D would look like or if your state allows a post-nup.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3935   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8795090
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 7:26 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Yes, he has said a few times that he will continue to have all of the conversations I need but that they wear at him. Which I find ridiculous, if he felt what I feel he'd crumble and not even make that statement to begin with. It's like they say the BS wants to get into it and the WS wants to get over it.

He wants to start fresh now and do fun things and it's almost like he is relieved this is now out in the open and we can move on. I can't move on because of the constant triggers, the pain and the disgust I feel. And of course part me (not really but sort of) things perhaps I would have wanted the excitement of a new partner, but that's as far as that thought goes for me. I would never act on it. Lucky you got to have it all for some time. When I look back at pictures of him from that year(s) he looks awful and not happy.

He says he thought our marriage was over, and I had told him awful things about how I felt about him then (I was constantly frustrated he was looking for fun and romance and I thought our focus should be raising our family and work- disconnect). He is surprised I care and want to be here. As of last Spring we started making efforts to be together and to work through our marriage issues but of course I had no idea of the issues! It's not fair, I tell him I was brushing my teeth with oreos- really getting nowhere. How can you work on your marriage when you are in two relationships. Anyway, sorry I'm getting on a rant now. Just so many thoughts pop up randomly these days. So many questions, they are answered but it's like I don't absorb them or cannot comprehend. My brain does not have this capacity. I am amazing I am still here and able to work and tend to the kids. We need to give ourselves so much grace, this is truly the hardest thing ever. To lose trust in the one person in the world you thought you could trust inherently. I will never be naive again and never trust blindly again- that part is forever gone.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795092
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fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 7:51 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

So sorry you find yourself here but you will receive good support. A natural response from a WS is to rugsweep the whole A. It doesn’t work. The commonly accepted timeframe for your healing is two-five years, although YMMV. He really needs to dig deep and address how he became so broken he could betray his wedding vows. This is hard work. It takes humility. A truly remorseful WS demonstrates empathy for your pain, rather than wallowing in his own shame or guilt. Since most cheaters are very selfish (Duh!). this is a process. Is he willing to write a timeline of the A with the specifics you need. Is he willing to answer the questions you need over and over again, without defensiveness? You are processing a huge trauma and will have the need to ask questions over and over. Is he in IC to address his issues?

Take care of you. Eat healthy. Exercise. Get out and be active. Be there for your children. Time is your ally. Always value yourself. You deserve a loving and committed partner. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3948   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8795095
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 7:51 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Funny how they only tell us about their issues after the fact that they f*cked us over. Just part of the cheaters’ handbook apparently.

How can you work on your marriage when you are in two relationships.

I hope you actually asked him that.

Look, there’s nothing wrong with trying to have fun and romance in a marriage, but if that’s all he’s in for, I’m doubting his material as a life partner.

posts: 556   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8795096
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 7:59 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

He has turned a corner with answering questions and not being defensive. At first he blamed me (and I was awful to him, truly didn't want him around, was frustrated, etc.) but now he is taking full responsibility, apologizes, has drafted a timeline in conversation and I see he is realizing that he is to blame for that decision (or decisions over and over again)... We are in MC together.

I think he tried to tell me so many times he was unhappy and I could not be what he wanted and I had my own personal issues. I truly did not HEAR him, I heard him but was not able to act on it. So he became frustrated and built up an image of me that was not true (rooted in truth) that enabled him to do this. I think the AP helped with that she (being our mutual friend) also heard my frustrations about him and used our weaknesses in our marriage to her benefit. I always say there is a special place in hell for 'friends' like that-she's a real piece of work! So the two of them had created a narrative about fed by what I had said and expanded upon by her and believed and fed by him. All of that is very hurtful as you can imagine.

He admits he is great at compartmentalizing and is able to segment the hurtful parts of his life that way. His family is the same way, something bothering you, better not talk about it! Toxic positivity at its finest. He has a sibling who is also an excellent liar. I know it's how they were raised. He now can talk about the awful because he needs to, it kills him to sit with my pain. He is so uncomfortable but he does it. I think that is what is needed if he wants to reconcile or we want to.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795098
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 9:05 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

So of course you need to do what is right for you. If you can live a life with him that has been tainted by infidelity and it’s still worth it to you, then do that if it feels right to you.

I will give you my perspective. Of course as always, take what you need, Leave the rest behind.

I’ve thought about this a lot. If I’m your shoes I would have to eventually realize that no matter what, in the end, he destroyed the marriage by breaking his vows and giving what he promised to you to another person.

To me, that effectively, even if not legally, ends the marriage. It’s not romantic to say, but marriage is a contract and he broke the terms.

So to me, even if I wanted to work on the relationship, I would have to legally end the old one. Once infidelity occurs, the marriage itself has ended.

Some of course can make a new marriage out of the old one. I don’t think I could. I’d have to start from scratch. Go back to the beginning with no guarantees.

So what does this mean for you. Nothing, of course, if my ideas don’t resonate with you. But if they do, I’d start with a discussion. Communication is always the key.

I’d say something to the effect of: "you’ve broken my heart. You know that. But what really hurts is how you destroyed the basis for our marriage. Our wedding day. Our vows. I cannot just forget that while I’m still standing in this current relationship.

Truth is, whether we end up together or not, I need for this marriage, the one that is truly irrevocably damaged, to end, before I can even consider starting over with you.

So while I will continue to take some time to mull it over and figure out what I need, I think we should concurrently talk to an attorney about what divorcing would look like for us.

I cannot make you any promises that we will be able to start again, from the beginning. That depends on what is in your heart and in mine once the dust settles. I only promise to be the best coparent I can be.

And maybe, after a time, we can see if there is something there for us to start rebuilding on. Maybe a friendship. Maybe a relationship. Maybe a new marriage. Or maybe we go our separate ways.

But what I do know is I can no longer be a part of something that feels like a facade. Something that is forced. You made choices that affected what we were as a team, and it means you chose to end our partnership. So I think I need to legally make that happen before I can start healing and deciding if I can be part of something new with you or not. "

My hope is he can see that this is his only path and he will commit to make it happen. My hope is he wants to try to convince you that he is worthy again of being part of a monogamous relationship with you again. My hope is you see this approach gives you the most options.

You owe him no guarantees. He will see that he doesn’t easily get his cake and the ability to eat it too. And you know if he does do that hard work to win you back, that he had to work hard for it and it wasn’t in any way just a walk in The park.

I’m glad to discuss further. Hope this helps.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3657   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8795114
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 9:13 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

wow Stevesn that seems like an extreme path to take. I do agree the 'old marriage' is gone and is no more. I'm not ready to think about divorce but I'm also unable to move forward with the facade. So here I am in limbo. He is now really terrified of losing me so of course he will be on his best behaviour. But what about 1 year down the road, 2 years, 5, 10, etc...

I feel the trauma is too strong to rebuild. Yet at other times we are together and I completely forget it has happened because we have been together so long and it's natural to spend time together etc. Then it hits me, triggered all over again.

Perhaps a separation for some time. I'm not sure. I really don't want to hurt the kids. And I know something extreme like that would really upset and confuse them. I'm very torn between what I think my needs are or what I need/want and protecting the kids.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795117
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 9:31 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Stevens solution may sound extreme but I agree with the logic.

The old marriage is dead. Standing in it is painful and confusing. It's like your living with the ghost of your husband. You can see and hear him but it's not the same, it's not him. You have to let go of the ghost and ultimately start seeing the real man in front of you.

I'm not sure you need a full on divorce to accomplish that (although it's a ballsy move!). But separation could have a similar affect. I know when I physically separated from my WS my healing jumped by the the thousands. I wasn't engaging with the ghost. I didn't have one foot in the past while trying to figure out the future. The effect on my WS was also night and day and dramatic. Let's just say that we both got some very real, very important clarity and that was a game changer.

Could you do even two weeks staying with your parents or a friend? Or could he? A short duration might not be as confusing for the kids as you can explain that away.

If you truly can't physically separate, then try some version of the 180. You set the rules. Like maybe only discuss kids and logistics but no other conversations unless YOU NEED to talk / ask questions, process some pain. No dates. No sex. He sleeps in a different room. Anything to create safe space for you to grieve and think and feel without being influenced by him. You could even do a schedule for time with the kids (separately and together) to give yourself some free time and space. This isn't ideal imo for your healing because his presence will still be felt and cloud your process but it's something.

The point here is to give you space to grieve and start thinking clearly. You are very, very early in this shitshow but it does get better. It truly does. It gets better "quicker" if you focus on your needs and your healing. The marriage will be what it will be. Right now you need to focus on you.

In addition to this, please take extra good care of yourself. Eating, sleeping, drinking water. Give yourself pleasure too. Old hobby, new hobby, friends, retail therapy... anything that gets you out of your head for a a few minutes a day helps you heal quicker.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 9:41 PM, Tuesday, June 13th]

posts: 652   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8795122
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 9:38 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

I feel that too, the old marriage is gone. So how do you rebuild, what are the actual steps? How do you force yourself to push away the triggers? Do you pretend? Do you persevere despite the pain? How long do you allow yourself to 'wallow' in it? How long is ok to feel awful?

What are the steps to rebuild, is it a daily choice to wake up and say I want to stay married today? Do you have a formal sit down and outline your rules and boundaries for your new marriage? Set the boundaries you thought you had in place and your new way of being? What do we like to do together, what do I tolerate what do I not? etc.? Who has done this and written about it?

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
id 8795124
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 9:43 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

We crossed posted. How do you rebuild?

Step one: You need to heal from the trauma.


Period. If you skip this step (and it can take many months) your marriage won't survive.

Two healthy people create a healthy marriage.

Get healthy.

(and he needs to do the same)

posts: 652   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8795125
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 9:45 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

There are usually two scenarios I see in a situation like this:
1. BS lives in limbo for far too long and somehow gets comfortable with it. In this scenario, they are neither too unhappy to leave marriage or too happy to escape the effects of infidelity. They are stuck. It's like middle income trap.

2. BS takes necessary steps, often going against their heart to escape infidelity either through divorce or reconciliation.

If you go for reconciliation then be clear on what your husband must do to make you feel safer and what boundaries he must follow. Complete and open access to each others phone and other devices is a good start. Complete and open communications is must. Honesty and truth on every matter is absolutely must.

posts: 459   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8795126
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 10:25 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

I'll be honest... if I had it to do over again, the first thing I would have done is reject any notion that my fWH's cheating had anything to do with me or our marriage. Marriages don't cheat. People do. Nothing you do, or fail to do, can MAKE another person throw away his own values system.

I'm going to reprint a post and save some typing, but I do think that when you throw out the "unmet needs" model, it starts clarifying things. It's easier to see where you need to shore up boundaries, whether the WS is actually doing the work, what's authentic and what's just love-bombing, everything.

My own WH went on a Craigslist binge seven years ago, multiple partners, various degrees of emotional attachment. He even thought he was in love at one point. But ten years before that, I'd caught him out in some online shenanigans, porn, cybersexing, emotional affair, etc. In fact, I caught him out only two weeks before a planned meet-up. I'd already seen an attorney before I confronted him and I was bent on divorce, but he pretty much cried his way out of it and I settled on MC. As you might have guessed already, we too were bamboozled with the "unmet needs" model of therapy, which sounds so reasonable. I upped my wife game, and did my best pick-me polka, but within a couple of years, he was right back at it behind my back. By the time we reached the ten year mark, he had screwed up his nerve to go live and in person on Craigslist.

Of course, I was pretty shocked as you might imagine. I thought we were good. I thought his "needs" were met. Damned if I hadn't been turning myself inside out for a decade to make sure, right? The more I thought about it, the more I revisited what I knew about the "unmet needs model", the less it made sense. I was doing everything right and he still CHOSE to cheat.

Here's the fly in the "unmet needs" ointment...

Healthy ADULTS don't need to be validated. They validate internally. Healthy adults are self-fruitful in the matter of contentment and life satisfaction, and when things come up which make them unhappy, they address the cause and solve the problem. OTOH, the vast majority of cheaters cheat because they're seeking external validation. They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring. They don't create enough adrenaline anymore to make the cheater feel special. It's like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right?

This is old pop-psy which is still being taught in schools and still selling books. But it's bullshit. NOTHING you can do (or fail to do) can MAKE another person throw away their core values and do something that's in this kind of opposition to good character. If you're a person who BELIEVES in fidelity, who VALUES fidelity, you don't cheat. End of story. Because when we truly value something we protect it. The cheater has a "but..." in his values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, but... not if my needs aren't being met." For people like you and me, we have a "so..." in our values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so... I don't put myself in risky situations with the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY we create organically. We don't sit around planning it out. It just happens, because it's innate to our character to protect what we value. The cheater doesn't have those boundaries because he doesn't really honor his values. He only claims to.

I'm not saying that your marriage is over or that your WH can't change. What I am saying though is that this "unmet needs" model is NOT going to challenge him to clean up his flawed character. In fact, it allows him to offload responsibility onto the marriage and onto YOU. It's not your job to MAKE him feel (fill-in-the-blank-here). It never was. It's his job to manage his feelings. You could have been doing everything exactly perfect for the entire length of your marriage, and he would still have cheated... because there's NOTHING in his character stopping him and he has no coping mechanism to fall back on when he feels unvalidated, inadequate, unappreciated, etc.

It's HIS job to see that his "needs" get met. Sometimes that might mean negotiating with you, say if it's about sex or about the division of labor in your home, etc. But sometimes, it might mean that what he sees as a "need" is unhealthy in an adult, like external validation through attention and flattery.

MC's are there to treat the marriage. The marriage is the client. So, of course they're going to talk about communications, resentments and expectations. The MC doesn't want to alienate anyone, so s/he's looking to find balance on both sides. But marriages don't cheat. People do. The only way your WH is going to make a change that safeguards against further perfidy is by correcting his need for external validation and becoming an emotionally healthy adult whose deeds are as good as his word. No excuses, just honoring the things he claims to value. For that, I would recommend IC (individual counseling) with a therapist who is well-versed in adultery.

The last thing any newly-minted BS needs is to walk into an MC's office, believing that they've come to safe harbor, and being handed a copy of The Five Love Languages or some other "unmet needs" gobbledygook. It would be really nice if we actually did have the power to control our mate by giving them "acts of service" or "words of affirmation", but sadly, we aren't gods who can stop a cheater from seeking out his/her choice of adrenaline rush and new kibbles. Although, this kind of pop-psy suggests that their behavior is somehow our responsibility. The more you dig into this ridiculous line of thought, the more absurd it becomes.

Anyway... sorry for the lengthy post. Nothing fries my ass more than seeing new BS's being sold this bill of goods.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7075   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 10:49 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

I feel that too, the old marriage is gone. So how do you rebuild, what are the actual steps? How do you force yourself to push away the triggers? Do you pretend? Do you persevere despite the pain? How long do you allow yourself to 'wallow' in it? How long is ok to feel awful?

What are the steps to rebuild, is it a daily choice to wake up and say I want to stay married today? Do you have a formal sit down and outline your rules and boundaries for your new marriage? Set the boundaries you thought you had in place and your new way of being? What do we like to do together, what do I tolerate what do I not? etc.? Who has done this and written about it?

One of the really hard things to deal with after intimate betrayal is how immediate it all feels, like you have to find the answers right now. I remember at about four months in, I finally had to break down and see my doctor because I'd made myself so sick that I'd have divorced on the spot if it meant that the queasy, flopping sensation in my stomach would stop. It was like some invisible entity shouting "boo!" in my ear a hundred times a day. I was jumping out of my skin with adrenaline and cortisol shooting through my body like electrical current all day long. shocked

The bottom line though is that "you can't eat a bear but one bite at a time". The feelings are very immediate, but feelings aren't facts. You have time, and it's important to allow yourself to take whatever time you need to process what's happened to you. We aren't prepared for the enormity of it. We see cheating all around us, in books and movies and in the lives of friends and family, but it's not something we can really empathize with until it happens to us. As much as we might feel like we get it, we just don't. It's too primal.

There's a good book called, The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson, which does a very good job of explaining how the brain and body are effected by this kind of loss. Of all the things I read, this was probably the most helpful because it really brings home how our innate Fear of Abandonment is in play. This reflex to bond is with us from birth and we just don't realize that we're still emotionally reactive because of it. So much of what you're feeling right now is NORMAL and HUMAN. It's ubiquitous among BS's because that's the nature of human brains and bodies in trauma.

Another good read is The Body Keeps Score by Bessell van der Kolk, who is probably the world's premier expert on trauma. Once you understand now the brain processes traumatic events and how it influences the body, how information is stored, what methods can encourage healing, etc., it's easier to give yourself some compassion about the time table and some faith that you'll get there.

You're going to be okay. I know it doesn't feel like that today, but we're all living proof that we get through it. You will too. Keep reading and posting.

((hugs))

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:50 PM, Tuesday, June 13th]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7075   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8795134
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 truthseeker77 (original poster new member #83435) posted at 10:49 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

You know what, all you folks on here make a lot of sense and I can certainly take away many great nuggets of wisdom.

Chamomile Tea you have gotten to the crux of the issue. Why is it my job to validate him in every way and make sure all of his needs are met? I do those things for myself as an adult, I have self esteem based on my values and the fact that I am good enough for myself.I may not be for others and that's ok with me.

He has always enjoyed a lot of attention and requires external validation. To be told he's great, funny, etc. He's very outgoing and loves to be social it fills these needs of his. He has trouble being alone in the quiet and I literally mean he will turn on music, fans, a show, sports etc. What is he afraid of finding? If I am still here despite seeing his worst side why can't he face it? I don't think I am torturing him at all and I try not to throw his mistakes in his face, but sometimes going out together and 'pretending' everything is as it was is just too much and feels intuitively wrong.

How will I know he has changed? He is an incredible liar and manipulator (as I'm guessing all cheaters have to be). How can you see/assess/ascertain someone has truly changed? What if he just takes the next affair more undercover since he knows I now know the signs and am hypervigilant. If I let down my guard, is that when it will happen? What if we have a good run will it happen then?

I think he is very insecure though he projects the persona of the alpha male. Never feels good enough. Although he is the golden child and can do no wrong in his parents' eyes. Very strange this peeling back the layers of the onion.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2023   ·   location: Canada
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