SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Now keep focusing on your daughter and yourself as you navigate through infidelity.

WW shouldn’t get away with ‘Well I knew’.
In reality it should be ‘I am so sorry you had to check due to my actions’.

One day at a time.

My WW’s position has been "I understand you have to check, I’m really sorry for making you feel that she may not be your daughter. I knew she was yours because of timing, but I know you can’t believe me when it comes to something like that." My wife’s affair lasted 15 months, but it wasn’t loaded with sex. There was also a 6 month break in it. And yes I believe that because again, I read her journals from back then.

One of the difficulties due to how long ago the affair took place, is that we’re in two different places. She’s already processed a lot of the affair, and dealt with some of the things that led to the affair inside herself. For her, the biggest emotions she feels is guilt, remorse, regret, and sadness watching me go through this. But for me, it’s like it happened last Thursday.

At the same time, she’s been able to to put me first and my needs first through this because she doesn’t have the lingering feelings from the affair etc.

Thank goodness the news was good.

How long was she trying to get pregnant with your youngest?

There was this really crappy Cheech and Chong movie back in the 1980’s called the Corsican Twins. Don’t remember much about it other than the twins were so emotionally connected that if one slapped himself the other felt the pain… When they argued they would hurt themselves to cause the other pain…

No matter how good a marriage that doesn’t apply…
You didn’t have the "advantage" of knowing of her infidelity when it was taking place. Your pain is fresh, and needs to be dealt with that way.

It’s early days but… do you have an idea what you want?
There isn’t any rush – you can give yourself reasonable time to decide – but eventually you should decide if the affair is a dealbreaker or if you want to work on this marriage.

Neither option ties your hands. You can decide this is a dealbreaker and start the process of divorce. Its far from instantaneous and maybe even the first month could be limited to gathering info before filing.
At the same time deciding to reconcile doesn’t automatically lead to you getting there. You could change your mind at any time.

What is bad – or wrong or whatever – IMHO is if you do NEITHER but just feel sad and bad for a couple of months and then you two find some way to coexist with this great big elephant in your marriage.

No rush – but at some point you might want to make some initial decision.

Thank you bigger, very good post.

I am not deciding what I want to do yet. I know in my heart of hearts I would like to reconcile if it’s healthy for me to do so and every issue is dealt with and resolved but if I can’t deal with everything that’s inside me and if she can’t fix what’s inside her That not only brought the affair about but also contributed to other issues in the marriage then we will divorce. I keep going back-and-forth on these crazy emotional rides where sometimes I’m just pissed wondering why I bother to waste anymore time on her and then other times I feel deep love for her .

One piece of the puzzle that is bothering me is when I look at her and I see this woman that I love or love, and I don’t feel like I’m looking at the person who did so many hurtful things to me. I don’t know if it’s a subconscious thing like a form of protecting her if that makes any sense, but it scares me a little because I know someday I will put those two people together and I don’t know how I will respond. Has anyone else dealt with or felt that before? I don’t know if I’m explaining it well, but if I did, I would love some perspective.

I think, most BS goes through this phase of compassion, especially when they are desperately trying save the marriage or get back to normalcy to escape all that pain and trauma they are going through during that moment. But, there is also a phase of anger/resentment. It is a very disturbing phase, especially considering your heart issues. I would advise you to take help from IC to develop healthy coping mechanisms to deal with the anger and resentment that you will experience eventually. Expressing anger and resentment to your wife for what she has done to you isn't bad at all. I say it's actually very necessary to make her realize what her actions have really done to you. All WS know it's bad, but they never know how bad it is until they see and hear through their own senses. They all say, "I know I hurt you." But, they have no need idea how much they hurt 'You'. Your anger/resentment will help her understand how much. But, it should be done in a non abusive way. And, for that, you need self-restraint and healthy mechanisms to express.

My wife and I reconciled after her indiscretion. It wasn't instant, it actually took months of intense IC for me (over 1.5 years now) and I still struggle at times. There were a lot of moments where we almost gave up, some that were loud, one that turned unintentionally violent that scared us both. The only consolation is that she now resembles the girl I fell in love with more than any time since the wedding eight years ago. I don't know if it was an early mid-life crisis, but she followed the playbook. Pulled away emotionally, sex dropped off to almost non-existent (unless she was sloppy drunk, which was a turnoff to me), she started going out multiple nights a week with her single girlfriends ten years her junior, starting fights constantly to the point where I stopped talking entirely because everything I said seemed to make things worse. Finding out she did something felt like the end, but I'm so co-dependent that I didn't let go immediately. I felt some blame not from during this time period, but from all of the years before (in truth, I let our marriage die a very slow death and didn't notice she was giving up on us until it was too late).

Reconciliation was extremely difficult. She didn't want it at first, she had fallen out of love with me. It's not that I had to do the "pick me" dance per se, as there wasn't really any individual that she was fixated on (she drunkenly kissed another man without regard for who saw it happen, but it was an impulsive decision - she had an EA with one specific person, but that person moved back overseas to Sweden where's from after the sports season ended and her fog slowly faded - he's since been traded to a team in California and won't be back), but I did have to change my bad habits and deal with my emotional damage from my adolescence and she did fall back in love with me over time.

The downside to reconciling is that I both trust her and don't trust her. I do look through her phone periodically when it's left unattended, but she no longer guards her phone like she used to (and I stopped guarding mine as well). I have yet to see anything in over a year that gives me the idea she's up to anything. I still get terrified that when I'm not around her, she'll meet someone that will start this whole thing all over again. I'm wary of our male friendships. She never goes out to clubs without me or a small group of girls that are very close friends of the marriage and that I trust entirely to keep her safe or from making bad decisions. So essentially, I'm still afraid, and I think I will be for a long time. I don't know that I'll ever truly recover. While I'm so happy I still have her, I now know too much and will never be able to feel truly safe again (with her or anyone).

I know whatever decision you make will be a difficult one. Just make sure you can live with whatever it ends up being. Sorry if it felt like threadjacking.

[This message edited by Icedover84 at 6:59 PM, Thursday, June 22nd]

So, she felt guilty during the affair but continued spreading her legs for another man, laugh with him embracing him, mourn…. And now that she got caught, she is remorseful.
I do not believe it. Seems to me like a playbook. She had her fun and it would have continued…without guilt!

Part of the work she does to fix what was broken inside her is to become someone new, safe and aware of what being married means, with empathy and remorse.

But she’s not there yet. She’s just at the beginning of that process. So what you see in her is more illusion than reality. Sure she may have done some introspection alone since the affair ended. But that’s a mere fraction of what she needs to do.

Have you asked her what she thinks you both need to be doing to have a chance to stay together? Has she done any research on it? Presented a plan from her perspective on what it will take to rebuild and help you heal?

Or are you still pretty much pushing her to do things she really doesn’t feel in her heart. When all is said and done, if you want to heal, you’ll need to feel that she did the work because she really wants to repair what she damaged and truly loves you. If you can’t have that sense you’ll never reconcile to your satisfaction.

Day 1

So worse than that though is, when we sat down Thursday morning I told her "I need honesty in your answers...if you lie...we can't move forward"....and guess what...she lied about some details. (Using a condom every time & not in our house). So I truly don't know if this can be saved any more...But I made a commitment to myself that I'm giving it 2 months with no decision.

Day 2

My WW now is doing everything (except for that first day lieing....which sounds too much like, aside from the ending, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln), she's been responding as best I could ask.

Sorry you’ here. Just trying to understand what’s happened. On DD she lied after you told her you couldn’t move forward if she did and then the next day you say she’s doing everything, except for the lies, and responding as best you could ask.
Did you confront her on the big lies of using a condom and having AP in your home? If not, It appears you still want to move forward with her, and the message she’s getting is you might stay even if she continues to lie or withhold information.

Keep riding that emotional rollercoaster. Eventually the wild emotional swings will smooth out. As always here, take the advice you can use and leave the rest. You are doing well so close to your dday. Watch her actions and not her words. It’s not
surprising that your WW initially lied about using a condom and sex in your home. The personal drive to protect yourself from admitting your worst actions that are very hurtful to your BH is powerful. It is whether she continues to be more forthcoming and empathetic to your pain that will give you an indication. It takes humility to face your betrayal of your partner.

She should get IC to determine how she became so broken to cheat. Keep communicating. Both R and D are options to deal with infidelity. Time is your ally. You will figure out what you want. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:01 AM, Friday, June 23rd]

My WW is going into IC we’re picking one out together because I don’t want a counselor that gives her a pass etc. she’s also helping me and we talk every night for a couple hours. She’s suspended everything else and made me first priority. This week was difficult because I had to travel for work, but she still held down the fort and then when the kids were in bed was on FaceTime with me until we fell asleep.

Ahurt

Some things to contemplate:
There is no way you can get "even" or get revenge. You cant punish her for what she did per se. Whatever "punishment" she gets has to be self-inflected as in her feeling of remorse and regret for causing all this damage, for making such a wrong decision and for risking what she has to see as her most precious asset: the family and marriage.

This is not saying she gets away scot-free. It’s just that you won’t be the one that dishes out the punishment.

This will take time. It’s OK to take time off from all this pain and relax. Be that alone fishing or playing golf or be it the two of you taking a weekend off. Don’t worry about the problems – they will be waiting for you!

It can help to view your wife as two women: Wife W and Wayward Wife WW.

When she talks to you think if it’s the W or the WW that’s talking. When you talk to her think if you are addressing the W or the WW. When you think of what she’s doing or has done contemplate if you are thinking about W or WW.
You want the W to be dominant in all instances.

Just to catch everyone up. It's been hectic over the last few days.

Trdd - Thank goodness the news was good.

How long was she trying to get pregnant with your youngest?

We weren't. Our daughter was an oops. We love her and she has truly completed our family. I've since gotten snipped.

Bigger - It’s early days but… do you have an idea what you want?
There isn’t any rush – you can give yourself reasonable time to decide – but eventually you should decide if the affair is a dealbreaker or if you want to work on this marriage.

I want to reconcile, if that's possible. I won't take anything but 100% now though. My WW knows that divorce is a real possibility. We're going through counseling, both MC and IC. We're reading "How to help your spouse get through your affair" together. Only time will tell if she can handle her issues and I can move past it.

Icedover84 - I feel you! This is some hard "stuff".

Unsure2019 - Sorry you’ here. Just trying to understand what’s happened. On DD she lied after you told her you couldn’t move forward if she did and then the next day you say she’s doing everything, except for the lies, and responding as best you could ask.
Did you confront her on the big lies of using a condom and having AP in your home? If not, It appears you still want to move forward with her, and the message she’s getting is you might stay even if she continues to lie or withhold information.

I confronted her the same day in the afternoon and she admitted everything. My first initial confrontation came at 4:00am out of a dead sleep (for her) and she reacted from fear. But since then she hasn't shaded anything etc. Also she's never, even in the first conversation, blameshifted, gaslit or rug swept.

Bigger - Some things to contemplate:
There is no way you can get "even" or get revenge. You cant punish her for what she did per se. Whatever "punishment" she gets has to be self-inflected as in her feeling of remorse and regret for causing all this damage, for making such a wrong decision and for risking what she has to see as her most precious asset: the family and marriage.

This is not saying she gets away scot-free. It’s just that you won’t be the one that dishes out the punishment.

This will take time. It’s OK to take time off from all this pain and relax. Be that alone fishing or playing golf or be it the two of you taking a weekend off. Don’t worry about the problems – they will be waiting for you!

It can help to view your wife as two women: Wife W and Wayward Wife WW.

When she talks to you think if it’s the W or the WW that’s talking. When you talk to her think if you are addressing the W or the WW. When you think of what she’s doing or has done contemplate if you are thinking about W or WW.
You want the W to be dominant in all instances.

Agreed. I'm not looking to punish her. I won't say I haven't had angry moments where I think about revenge, punishment etc...but it really is just a negative reaction that actually centers around her feeling the pain I'm in.

It's interesting you bring up viewing my wife as two women because that's actually a concern I have and I've spoken to my counselor about because I CAN'T seem to reconcile that they're the same person. It doesn't feel possible...even though I know there are/were and eventually I will have to deal with that.

It's interesting you bring up viewing my wife as two women because that's actually a concern I have and I've spoken to my counselor about because I CAN'T seem to reconcile that they're the same person

Yes, it takes a while to really accept that your own spouse IS the kind of person who is capable of ongoing lies and betrayal, capable of supremely self-centered decisions and lacking in empathy. Truly, truly terrifying stuff.

This is why, if you are trying to leave the door open to reconciliation, it is so important for the wayward spouse to do the difficult work of owning their real "whys" and also working hard to overcome those destructive behavior patterns.

Otherwise, when the going gets tough again
...or enough time passes...or they feel entitled (or whatever their "why" green-light-to-an-affair is), they'll slide back into destructive patterns.

Hi

It's interesting you bring up viewing my wife as two women because that's actually a concern I have and I've spoken to my counselor about because I CAN'T seem to reconcile that they're the same person. It doesn't feel possible even though I know there are/were and eventually I will have to deal with that.

I can’t vouch for whether the theory is still in vogue but it’s worth reading a Wikipedia article about Transactional analysis and an article or two about Ego states, to understand that dealing with a person can involve contradictions in a person’s personality which come out in some contexts.

I tell myself it takes the exercise of will and sustained effort to make complex things seem simple. It then involves honesty and introspection to avoid hypocrisy in oneself. It’s not a matter of pretending that one’s character is all cut from the same cloth as bringing things all together and steering the ship correctly.

AHH,

You got yourself snipped, see if you can reverse it, get your bullets back.

Have her surrender her eggs.

Sorry, double post

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 6:44 PM, Wednesday, June 28th]

This may be difficult to believe, but you are doing relatively well.

Seems like you have your head on as straight as possible, you are take care of yourself physically, and involved with therapist.

Don’t rush getting into MC. You BOTH have to get your own issues taken care of before you can address your issues as husband and wife.

But I do want to share some negative things with you. And I’m sorry.

Yes, the woman you married is NOT the person in front of you. Like you said, that woman is dead and her body has been taken over by the selfish person you see now. I believe that part of the extreme pain you are feeling, as we all did, is the mourning of the "death" of the woman you married, and the "death" of your marriage.

Sorry, but if you stay and try to reconcile, the marriage will NEVER be like it was originally. It has been changed FOREVER! It like a broken vase, yes, you may be able to glue it back together and appear to to be whole, but it isn’t; the cracks are visible. And no matter what anyone tells you, the idea that you can have an even better marriage is 100%, TOTAL, and COMPLETE BALONEY!!! When someone say this, try to think what that person’s TRUE MOTIVE is. Do they have YOUR best interest and happiness in mind?

Based upon my conversations with people that tried to reconcile, from now on, even 10/20/30 years from now if you stay together, whenever she is 5 minutes late, you will wonder whose bed or backseat she is in at that moment. Anytime she gets a text at home, you will wonder if it is some guy and they are planning their next visit, and when you make love to her and she closes her eyes, you will wonder if she is fantasizing about "him" or some other guy.

You need to ask and answer the question of whether this is the life you want and if you can be happy in such a life.

I don’t think that I have read this in any of your posts, but do you have any friends or family members that you are leaning on during this time of crisis? It is times like this that family and true friends are there for one another. (I know you said that you don’t have many friends). Go back and reach out to an old friend that you lost contact with and ask for help???

Also, don’t worry about telling others about her cheating. First, her failure is nothing that should embarrass you. All embarrassment falls 100% on HER! Also, telling others about her cheating is NOT a punishment to her in ANY WAY!!! It is NOT revenge!! It is YOU attempting to get help FOR YOU!!!

It seems like she is doing many things correctly, but as you said this is ALL HER FAULT!!! You need to decide what is in YOUR best interest.

When I found out my ex cheated, I talked to a coworker that had gone through this Hell and then others at work joined in and we were a support system for each other as each new person joined our merry little band. After talking to others who were cheated on, I firmly believe the idea of staying FOR THE KIDS is horrible. It appears that have kids split their time between 2 separate homes, each that has a loving parent is better than staying under one roof where the kids will feel the constant tension in the air and hear every snide remark that both of you will make because you are both angry and frustrated at the other. Be an example to your children of what a healthy relationship is supposed to be like, one that you want EACH of your kids to have one day, and show them how a man handles hardship and betrayal! Whether you reconcile or divorce, you will have to let the kids know eventually!!! And do NOT try to sugarcoat by saying "mommy and dad just can’t be married any more". Tell them the truth, but age appropriate. Let them know what she did. Don’t let her change/rewrite the history of your marriage or why it ended. They will also need to know if you try to reconcile so they understand the flair up of anger or breaking down in tears!!!

Finally, if you do try to reconcile, based upon watching friends that have reconciled or still attempting to reconcile, I suggest that you move forward with divorce anyway. First, this marriage is dead. She killed it. Divorce her and try to start a new relationship and see if this new relationship can lead to a new marriage. And no one says you can’t still live together during and after the divorce. Also, make her take her maiden name back. This will have a dramatic impact on her because she will realize that at best she has been demoted from wife to girlfriend, and this new relationship can end MUCH easier than when you were married. Also, don’t under estimate the impact of her having a different last name than her children. All of this will help her keep her head straight, make those personal changes that you BOTH know she needs to make become PERMANENT and not just short term. Plus, i believe that demoting her from wife to girlfriend or even FWB, gives us the betrayed spouse a sense of justice that we all want and search for.

I wish you nothing but the best. I was were you are just 5 years ago. It seems like it was yesterday as well as 1,000 years ago. I promise it does get better with time, but ONLY if you make the decision to do what is best FOR YOU!!! And the very moment you decide what you need to do, it will feel like the 10,000 lb weight that you have been caring since the day you discovered she was cheating on you fall to the ground. You MUST force yourself out of the Hell of limbo you may fall into.

And tell the AP’s spouse. The sooner the better. She not only has right to know, but will give you a sense of taking control of the situation.

Hang in there. Be Strong. And good luck.

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 1:51 AM, Friday, June 30th]

I have to agree with everyone that you are doing really well.
I do know some others on here who learned about the affair after it ended for some time. The Wayward Spouse (WS) is usually very compartmentalized and identifies themselves as a different person then when they were cheating. This is the healthiest way to handle it.
I heard you are going to MC. Can I ask why? I went to several and only 1 was any good. The reason being that the MC is going to try to help your WS figure out how they stay as well as you stay. That means you both pour into the marriage. You are right now in survival shark mode. That is not a time to be thinking about the future or pouring things into your marriage. It is about figuring out how you don't cheat back, self delete, or harm the cheating WS. MC should be about finding ways to effectively fight, effectively communicate while angry, understand the needs of the other partner, and build each other up for mutual reasons. You aren't going to need those right now are you? If so, write those out and put points beneath them.
I think Bigger hinted at it and you are dancing around it, what are you going to do to be selfish back. Your WW was incredibly selfish and every one of us had to be selfish in some way to get the feeling we loved ourselves over our spouse to be sure we know we can trust ourselves to take care of the inner you. Most of the time it is getting away and figuring out your thoughts while away. Something that the WW will not like and you both agree you need. This could be you taking the kids somewhere without the WW. This could be buying something stupid only you will enjoy. You need to find that thing that will be a sign that you love yourself enough to choose you over your WW. It is what the hysterical bonding is supposed to partially accomplish, but you sound like you are so disgusted with her, you won't be able to achieve that. She will heavily value the next time you 2 have sex. Maybe that is something you should talk about in MC. How to make sex special again.
As to your comparisons with the AP. You need your wife to write out a list of 60 reasons she chooses you over anyone else. Even naming the AP in a few of them. She also needs to make a good portion of them sexual. This helped me see in writing why my WW chose me because you will question that a lot. The AP being married is a part of that, but if that is all that stopped her leaving, then she should pack a bag right now. You need to write a list of 50 reasons you are choosing to stay with her and give her the list. This is so she knows why you are staying and can prop up her depression to see you still love her even though she shattered you. It also is so you know why you are staying. These lists really helped me when I was struggling and I hope will help you.
This is something the good MC had us do. It was to help with my self esteem which was taking a huge hit. I was working out like a monster and all I could see is that I was aging and getting fat. It helped to know what I brought to the marriage.
Something else that her IC told her for my WW was that she had to compliment me the first time she mentioned me a day to someone outside our marriage. That was because she had bad mouthed me so badly during her affairs, she needed a hard reset and now she says lots of great things about me. I started doing it a little bit about 1.5 years into reconciling because that is when things get rough. You start to see your spouse as just a person and get cold while focusing on yourself. Lots of people call it the plane of lethal flatness.
The last thing is to have your wife write herself a letter at the start of the affair. This letter is telling herself what she would have needed to hear to stay out of the affair. You will see it and it will be non-sense if it is like my wife's. This is to show you that even she can't convince herself to have not cheated. That you didn't cause this with your health or your loss of drive due to aging.
I hope these help because these are things that helped me early on.