SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Forgive my long diatribe. I've tried to provide the details that are relevant (within reason).

I (51M) and wife (46F) have had a decent marriage. We've had ups and downs, but mostly ups. Our sex life over the last few years has been affected. I don't perform as well as I used to due to a few medical issues I'm working on and she just shut down for the most part over the last few years....and yes it started about the same time period as her affair. I'm really struggling because I want to reconcile. We have 3 amazing kids, 15, 9 and 5 who I think would be dramatically affected by a divorce. We had a great life. We were each other's best friend etc. The only weakness in our relationship over the last few years has been our sex life. I was married and divorced before with 2 kids and saw how it affected them, so I'm overly sensitive about the issue I think.

To put a quick timeline together....Affair end of 2016-most of 2017 (call it a year). More emotional than physical, but there was physical. I had my first health scare in Feb 2017 and ended up finding out I have a defective heart valve and it will need to be replaced at some point. I was at a low because I was facing my mortality and she wasn't there for me (she saw it as I gave up and I explained, that's when she should've been there for me but she wasn't). Our sex life started struggling during her affair (for obvious reasons) and it never returned. In Jan 2020 I had my heart valve replaced and since that point, my body hasn't responded as well (but it's not dead if you get my drift, think of it as needed to prime the engine and work the choke before you can start the engine). Additionally, I'm an emotionally driven sexual person, so if my wife and I are on good standings intimately, I'll perform much better, if we're struggling, I won't...and our intimate aspect of our relationship (because of BOTH of us...I contributed by sitting quietly and letting the issue fester) has suffered.

My plan is to not jump to any decisions, go to couples and single counseling and see where I end up.

My wife, to her credit, hasn't played the typical cheater's handbook game. There's been no gaslighting, she's been honest in her answers to her questions, and has taken responsibility for her actions.

My biggest difficulty moving forward is that I don't know if I can forgive her. This isn't just about her affair. It's looking at the holes and weaknesses in how she treated me, before, during and even since her affair....and how it compares to how she treated her affair partner.

I put a large portion of my "love equation" in loyalty. My wife tends to be selfish, abrupt in how she speaks at times (it's a personality thing, not an ill-intent thing), etc. etc., in other words there are parts of who she is and how she treated me that I wouldn't normally accept from other people, but because I always saw her as loyal....I could forgive those other parts (this isn't an issue of being a doormat either, I'd set her straight if she went too far and she'd apologize etc.). Finding out she cheated though has created a paradigm shift if how I'm seeing our relationship and I don't know if I can forgive her and find my love for her again.

I realize I'm sitting here 28 hours since light was shined on the affair. I'm trying to take the mentality that, if we work together, we can come out of this with the family and friendship we had and hopefully fix our intimacy and passion. But I can't see how I can forgive her and let go of the years of poor treatment. I have an INCREDIBLE amount of resentment right now.

Anyone else feel these things and have ways to deal with it.

Hi AH,

Sorry you are in the shitty club that no one wants to be in.

Ill health aside, how are you?

Can I ask how you found out? Her old emails or old texts? Or did she volunteer the affair?

It may help others to provide advice or recommend assistance if they know the discovery process.

Is your spouse remorseful for her Affair or just upset that you found out?

The reason I say that as if she thought you had thrown in the towel on life due to your heart condition that she had a affair so you would divorce her and she would not have to take care of you through the medical treatment.

Tell the other OBS as they have a right to know the actions of your WW and her AP. There are STD and STI issues and checked to be undertaken for all parties and spouses.

Seek legal advice now regardless of what you want. You need to have a solid basis to formulate a way ahead.

Does any of your extended family know so to offer any support to you?

Don’t rug sweep this you need to know all of the affair processes but be careful once a question has been answered it can’t be unheard so be carful.
One day at a time

[This message edited by Buffer at 2:36 PM, Friday, June 16th]

My wife, to her credit, hasn't played the typical cheater's handbook game. There's been no gaslighting, she's been honest in her answers to her questions, and has taken responsibility for her actions.

I wouldn't bet your house on that.

To put a quick timeline together....Affair end of 2016-most of 2017 (call it a year). More emotional than physical, but there was physical.

Maybe, but it was probably more physical than you realize. Guys don't have affairs with married women to exchange love-notes; they do it to fuck them with no strings attached.

My plan is to not jump to any decisions, go to couples and single counseling and see where I end up.

Skip the couples counseling unless you want to be made into a contributor to the affair, or an ogre for not treating her with proper sensitivity since you found out she was doing some other guy during your health crisis.

My biggest difficulty moving forward is that I don't know if I can forgive her. This isn't just about her affair. It's looking at the holes and weaknesses in how she treated me, before, during and even since her affair....and how it compares to how she treated her affair partner.

I put a large portion of my "love equation" in loyalty. My wife tends to be selfish, abrupt in how she speaks at times (it's a personality thing, not an ill-intent thing), etc. etc., in other words there are parts of who she is and how she treated me that I wouldn't normally accept from other people, but because I always saw her as loyal....I could forgive those other parts (this isn't an issue of being a doormat either, I'd set her straight if she went too far and she'd apologize etc.). Finding out she cheated though has created a paradigm shift if how I'm seeing our relationship and I don't know if I can forgive her and find my love for her again.

This all makes perfect sense. One thing you can say for sure is that she is not a loyal person. Think long and hard as to what she considers you as, and if you want to go back to that.

But I can't see how I can forgive her and let go of the years of poor treatment. I have an INCREDIBLE amount of resentment right now.

The question is really, can you live with someone who has betrayed you in such an ugly manner? If you can, then maybe you can attempt to reconcile. Of course, you have to understand who you are reconciling with. I am not a big believer in people changing. I am also not someone who care very much about people changing after they have taken a shit on me.

But that is just my point of view.

***

It's incredibly tough. I am just some guy on the internet, so I am ready to divorce your wife yesterday. But with family, the fact that this is all new to you - she has been out of love with you FOR YEARS, and your loving-heart has just been smashed!

But, my man, your wife sounds like one cold ****. Ask yourself if that is the kind of person you want to keep in your life, for the rest of your life. Will it eat at you for the rest of your life?

Most cheaters don't give a shit. They just want to "get out of trouble" after they had their fun and go back to the way things were before. They don't understand that ship sailed.

You have some thinking to do. But here is the thing. Don't be too nice to her. In fact, don't be nice. Put her to the side and let her know she has ended the marriage and your life decisions are going to be made by you. Show strength. Try not to whine or cry to her. She will view your vulnerability as weakness, the same way she took advantage of your time of illness. Easier said than done!

Also, assume everything she tells you is a lie, minimized, omitted, or distorted. You should start investigation and surveillance on her life that she has been leading in secret.

Look through all her old phones, texts, emails, whatever you can find. Get a recorder and leave it recording where she talks the most. Give her the business then leave. See who she calls, who she talks to, and what she says. You will only get the truth when you are not around.

Good luck to you.

I am sorry you are here. You will be getting good advices from people here.

I advise you to read healing library. There's immense wisdom there.

It is said that it's not infidelity that kills a relation, its the treatment of BS during and after the affair. People can forgive betrayal but not the disrespect and neglect. You have been neglected and disrespected. For many this itself is a deal breaker.

You said you are ready to save this marriage and reconcile. Does your wife wants the same to the same extent? Is she working on herself to change the attitude that led her to treat you poorly and miserable? She neglected you and wasn't there for you when you needed her the most. Health emergency is is a very serious issue. She should have been there for but instead, she neglected and ignored your need for emotional and physical support and was with her AP. This is very cruel. It would take a lot more effort and change on her side to be the desired candidate for reconciliation. She is not loyal. She is not reliable. She can't be trusted.

Take your time. Process this new reality. Observe her actions. Make a list of things you want her to do and commit to for you to even consider reconciliation. Don't compromise on your needs. Don't try to please her and win her back. Pick me dance never works. If she continues to treat you poorly, then apply 180. Create your own safe space. Disengage from her emotionally and physically. You are codependent. It's not healthy. You need to go to IC to address this issue of codependency and also to escape infidelity. She needs to go to IC as well if she wants to change and become a safe partner. IC for both is must.

Edit: forgiveness is too early to think about. Forgiveness needs to be earned. She needs to earn it through her persistent and consistent actions. This may take years. You don't need to forgive her until you are satisfied. Once she earns it forgiveness becomes easy. Also, you must be healed to forgive her. So, you should work on yourself to escape this infidelity and heal. Once you heal, forgiveness becomes even more easier.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 3:01 PM, Friday, June 16th]

Hi Buffer,

Tell me about it. My first wife had cheated as well (that was much more a standard cheating story with all the negative actions by the WW) so my current WW (how sad is that) knew that this was a big issue for me. To answer your questions...

I found out by chance dealing with an old cell phone...finding a few notes that threw up red flags and then seeing an email address for her that I had never seen which is another red flag. Cracked into her secret email and there were all of her correspondences with her AP.

I'm your typical BS. My blood pressure can skyrocket so I'm having to increase my medications to control it. I go through the typical cycles of being a walking corpse to intense anger to intense sadness to actually wanting to connect with her (at a friendship level...I still have zero desires to perform any acts of love, and I don't mean just sex, for her).

My wife is extremely remorseful and it's genuine. The reality is that she has felt guilty internally ever since the affair which also negatively impacted our marriage because she has truly stopped liking herself over the last few years. I've seen it, we've discussed it. But it never made sense to what degree she suffered with self-hate...until now.

You mention about her affair possibly being an attempt to get me to divorce her isn't accurate at all. Her biggest fear is our family breaking apart...and she freely admits that she knows if I choose that path it'll be her fault. The only way we divorce is if I choose it.

In regards to everything else....I'm still on the fence. I want to start seeing a counselor before I make any moves like those.

in other words there are parts of who she is and how she treated me that I wouldn't normally accept from other people, but because I always saw her as loyal....I could forgive those other parts

This part really resonated with me. I felt much the same way after discovering the affair. I help my W in such regard because I saw her as a loyal and honest person. Her many faults were not significant when seen against that. When I discovered her cheating, she essentially erased her only redeeming qualities; therefore, all that remained were her deficits. Once I was able to step back and see her for who she was, the choice was simple and I filed the paperwork.

Welcome to SI and sorry that you had to find us. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that you will find helpful, and the Healing Library has a ton of information (as well as a list of the abbreviations we use).

First, start with IC (individual counseling) for each of you. After you've healed enough, then give MC a shot. Your M didn't cheat, your WW (wayward wife) did. Many MCs will shift the blame to you, and the A (affair) is 100% her choice. It wasn't the lack of sex from you. I mean, she could have taken care of that by herself.

It isn't a coincidence that she shut down around the time the A started. That is typical cheater behavior. Also, cheaters lie and then they lie some more.

Don't feel like you need to stay married for the kids. Mine (adults) told me I should have divorced sooner and not put up with XWH's abuse. It also exposed them to the abusive behavior. What type of relationship do you want to see modeled for your kids, which they will then follow into their relationships? I'm from a broken home and know how it affected me, so I made the wrong choice to stay married to an emotionally abusive man.

If you look at the behavior as a whole, you'll see that she was very selfish and didn't stand by the in sickness/health, forsaking all others part of her vows. She had tons of options, including divorce, before having an A.

A book called How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is a great resource that your wife could use. It's fairly short and I recommend you read it, too. Another book is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. I found the chapter on windows and walls to be very good at describing how you should be transparent with your spouse and keep certain things between the two of you (build windows) and setting boundaries with others who are outside of your M and don't need access to your relationship (build walls).

Faithfulman and Lurkingsoul12,

Thanks for your perspectives. There's nothing your saying that I haven't thought about over the last 28 hours.

I keep going through all of the pendulums of thoughts and emotions. The emotional toll is insane.

I told my WW last night that the marriage I thought we had and the wife I thought I had are both dead. They don't exist any longer. If we divorce, it is what it is...We'll have to do everything to make sure our kids are impacted the least possible. If we can somehow reconcile...We'll have to build a new marriage and she's going to have to change and be a wife I deserve. I'm not longer going to allow bad behavior in one area because she's overabundant in another (because that was a lie).

[This message edited by AhurtHusband at 3:09 PM, Friday, June 16th]

My plan is to not jump to any decisions, go to couples and single counseling and see where I end up.

I would caution you to vet all counselors carefully on their views on infidelity especially her IC and the MC. Many therapists subscribe to the unmet needs model of affairs and often advocate blame shifting and rugsweeping. A really bad one can even validate your WW’s terrible choices.

Her biggest fear is our family breaking apart

There are consequences to our actions. She felt that it would be ok to break your family apart when she chose to have her A.

Asc1226. Yes I'm well aware of that trend and that's something critical in the vetting process. No problems in a marriage happen in a bubble. I know I contributed to the issues WITHIN our marriage...but an affair is outside the marriage...that's 100% the choice and in turn the responsibility and accountability of the WS.

PS not to be funny, but how are you highlighting parts of a previous post...I don't use forums much and it would make it easier to communicate with.

[This message edited by AhurtHusband at 3:14 PM, Friday, June 16th]

PS not to be funny, but how are you highlighting parts of a previous post...I don't use forums much and it would make it easier to communicate with.

Highlight the text, paste it into the reply box, highlight it again and select all then hit the " button above.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 3:24 PM, Friday, June 16th]

PS not to be funny, but how are you highlighting parts of a previous post...I don't use forums much and it would make it easier to communicate with.

Copy the question or statement you would like to respond to, then click reply and paste it in the body of your new post. Then highlight it, and click the " button just above the post body, right next to the bold button.

ETA: Looks like ASC beat me to it.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 3:26 PM, Friday, June 16th]

ASC1226 - Highlight the text, paste it into the reply box, highlight it again and select all then hit the " button above.

Ahhh thanks! PS thanks Farsidejunky as well.

PSS "Bummer of a birthmark Hal" (assuming Farsidejunky is in reference to the comics)

No sir. She is not remorseful. If she were remorseful ,she would have confessed. You wouldn't have found out on your own. She's regretful. That is not the same thing.

In order to successfully reconcile,she must do the work to become a safe partner. That means digging deep,and figuring out why she cheated,and has lied to you for years.

You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything she has said. She's had zero problem lying to you,every day,since the affair began. Common sense says she still is.

Who is this man? Is he married? If so,you need to call his wife and inform her of the affair. She deserves to know,just as you do. Do not tell your wife. She's supposed to be NC with him, so of she says anything,you know she's still in contact with him.

It's appalling that,as her husband is facing serious health issues,she's in an affair..and continues the affair.

Right now, your only job is to take care of yourself and the kids, tell the OBS, and watch your wife's actions. Whatbis she doing to become a safe partner? That will determine if you can possibly reconcile.

In order to reconcile in a healthy manner, it takes 3 to 5 years. That's no exaggeration.

Stop worrying about forgiveness. That may,or may not,happen. It is not a requirement for reconciliation. And, even so,it is earned,over a very long period of time, through honest, and consistent, remorseful actions.

Do not share this site with her.

PSS "Bummer of a birthmark Hal" (assuming Farsidejunky is in reference to the comics)

Indeed, sir, you nailed it.

On to your wife... I use a simple approach to determine whether one should be considered for reconciliation. The wayward should be willing to low crawl through a mile of broken glass in order to show they are a safe enough partner for reconciliation. Understandably, this is figurative, but reconciliations tend to work better when the wayward showing initiative, is willing to endure emotional growth and the pain associated with it, etc., in an effort to show they won't allow it to happen again.

Barring the occasional slip-ups in resentment, they should be willing to deliver healthy things that the betrayed needs to feel like they are a safe bet again: a written timeline of the affair, possibly a polygraph to confirm the timeline and/or whether that was the only affair, individual counseling, elimination of trickle-truth, radical honesty even when the truth is painful, etc. This is by no means comprehensive, and each BS may have their own unique needs. Notice what is not on the list is any form of abuse from the BS towards the WS. That is why I said "healthy things the betrayed needs". This is the real challenge for the betrayed.

Right now, it is all fresh, and you don't need to know your list. But you should start to consider it sooner rather than later. What do you need to see from her to be reasonably sure it won't happen again? Others will be along to make suggestions for the list, and you should look carefully at what they post as it may be something you had not considered.

Until then, there are some things you can do to make yourself feel as normal as possible under the circumstances. Make sure you are eating healthy, balanced meals; no fast food. Give yourself plenty of time for sleep, even though it may be elusive. Drink plenty of water. Work out provided within the reasonable boundaries of your health ailments. Take care of you and your kids.

I am sorry you have found yourself here. Keep posting, especially when your wife shifts to suspected resentment or gaslighting...which will likely happen. The folks here have seen it all, and will be able to point out when she is full of shit.

Farsidejunky - Right now, it is all fresh, and you don't need to know your list. But you should start to consider it sooner rather than later. What do you need to see from her to be reasonably sure it won't happen again? Others will be along to make suggestions for the list, and you should look carefully at what they post as it may be something you had not considered.

Until then, there are some things you can do to make yourself feel as normal as possible under the circumstances. Make sure you are eating healthy, balanced meals; no fast food. Give yourself plenty of time for sleep, even though it may be elusive. Drink plenty of water. Work out provided within the reasonable boundaries of your health ailments. Take care of you and your kids.

I am sorry you have found yourself here. Keep posting, especially when your wife shifts to suspected resentment or gaslighting...which will likely happen. The folks here have seen it all, and will be able to point out when she is full of shit.

Thank you, these are the types of posts that will definitely help me move forward (regardless of which path I take). This morning I just started my "question" list and my "needs" list. I expressed to my WW last night already that I need to see her taking initiative.

To reconcile you need to know exactly from what you are reconciling.

From lurking around this website for a few years and reading many stories it seems that at the beginning of the Discovery period the betrayed spouses have learned only about the tip of the iceberg. Your time period of late 2016 through 2017 might possibly be expanded. We have seen here such things as:

"A one night stand turns into a two week fling".

"A two week fling turns into a one year affair".

"A one year affair turns into a multiyear affair".

"A betrayed man's children were fathered by another man".

Etc.etc.

It depends on how much you really want to know as to how hard you dig into the facts. But, to reconcile you need to have the relevant facts of the affair and be satisfied knowing you have all that you want to know to make that decision. Cheaters are liars and most of the time they minimize time periods, meetings, sex acts performed, etc. because of their shame in being caught... they don't want to appear in a bad light.

That said, you will never know 100% of what happened or how it happened. It is impossible. You have to be satisfied with that fact and work around it.

Because most people do not want change in their lives, the default mindset most go to is try to prematurely reconcile and to have the marriage go back the way it was before they learned of the betrayal. But, as you told your wife, the old marriage is dead. I am happy you have that mindset, because that is the correct mindset for you to have at this stage of the game. You are only in the first innings of what might turn out to be a double or triple header.

Some posts might seem harsh, but please know they come from a place of wanting to help you get out of infidelity.

Good luck to you. We all want the best for you.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 5:21 PM, Friday, June 16th]

Also, there's a thread in the ICR (I Can Relate) forum for betrayed partners who found out years later. There may be some help there that you might find.

Irpprl - Some posts might seem harsh, but please know they come from a place of wanting to help you get out of infidelity.

Good luck to you. We all want the best for you.

Thanks. I try to take something out of every post, even the hard ones. I still have a lot to discover to confirm the truth. I’m definitely taking Reagans foreign policy of trust but verify.