SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So about six weeks out from DDay. Where things currently stand are that I asked my WW to move out after she broke my boundaries about lying. She’s currently living in a hotel and looking for her own place. Our therapist suggested that we needed that separation of space so we can both figure out what we want. In addition I’ve pulled back in terms of communication. We only talk about the kids/house/finances and even then it’s only in text. Physically I have reduced being around her as much as possible to where it’s basically just in passing and there is very little in person contact and again it’s mainly the kids. We are split schedule right now (one parent AM and one PM) but once she has a place we will move to full day for each parent (one day on one day off).

We have been going to couples therapy but progress has been difficult. We are going to pause and do discernment counseling for the next few weeks to figure out which direction to go since she is still
Indecisive. If I believe my spouse (not sure I do but honestly it doesn’t matter) she has stopped talking to AP except for professional work matters so that’s about 2.5 weeks of that.

I need to start emotionally detaching myself from her as the next step to what will ultimately end up in divorce. I need advice on doing this as I still struggle.

Last night a mutual friend let me know that my WW told her she felt like she as hit rock bottom. (I didn’t know this because as I said our contact is minimal so I really don’t know what’s going on with her). In addition that friend says she feels like WW is looking for someone to tell her it’s okay to walk away. So to me that also means that it’s really just a matter of time before she is able to make that decision on her own and so I need to move towards the conclusion that she does not want to reconcile and there won’t be any sort of healing between us.

Any and all thoughts/advice is appreciated.

The text from the mutual friend said

"I don’t think she’s clear yet but She said she’s worried if she walks away, her family will blame her for not trying hard enough. To me, She’s looking for someone to validate her decision, no matter what she decides.

I outright asked if she would be happier if she just walked away. She said "I…Don’t know.""

I haven’t been in your shoes in regards to moving toward disengagement and divorce, so I don’t have advice in that regard, but I just wanted to send a virtual hug and say that I’m so, so sorry that you find yourself in this place. Take care of yourself and your children. Infidelity and divorce are so difficult, but you will see better days.

Sorry, HAB. Infidelity is so extremely painful. My XWH wanted everybody to think he was Mr. Wonderful. I was the one that ended the M and filled for D. Now, he can say I was the one that wanted out of the M. Of course, he wasn't going to say anything about his infidelity.

It sounds like your WW may be doing the same thing.

R is hard and if both aren't in 100%, then the M doesn't heal.

ETA: If she's still working with AP, she's still getting the dopamine hit. Doesn't matter if it's all professional or not.

[This message edited by leafields at 7:35 PM, Sunday, July 16th]

After Dday#2, I actively started to detach from my WW in an effort to get to a place of clarity. I did this by focusing on myself. I did thigs and went places by myself. I actively edited her out of my mind. When I spoke, I never used the pronouns us or we. It was just me.

Even though she cheated and threw me under the bus, the thought of me disconnecting from her really affected her. After all, she thought she was the prize. Infact, I remember a time when she was ugly-crying, complaining that she was no longer the love of my life. Oh, the stupid shit she has said...

My sister told me that I would know when I was done with her, when I knew. I would just get to that point and be done. She was right. I got to a point where I said enough.

From what you write, it seems like your WW does not love you or want the M,but is hanging on due to some moral or ethical code. She cheated, but does not want to be the villain that ends the family. You do see the cognitive dissonance.

I gave my WW 6 months to pull her head out of her ass and fix what she broke (or at least start). She didn't, I filed, best decision of my life. I cannot tell you how much peace I now have in my life. My EXWW, not so much.

Well she’s right, if she walks away she isn’t trying and it is all her fault. All of this is her fault. It’s rare in a relationship that someone can put all of the blame on one spouse or the other, but with infidelity and quitting instead of R, all of that is on the WW. You gave her a lot more of a chance then she ever deserved, and now she’s throwing it away.

I’m not beating you up, you have been given a ton of solid advice already and have been told many cold hard truths. I know what it is like, I had a very similar experience as you. Have you ever heard of FOG? Fear, Obligation, Guilt. It’s what keeps people in abusive relationships or toxic ones. WSs are masters at manipulating their BSs with these powerful feelings. I’ve seen it a lot in your posts, fear of losing everything (threatening custody of your DD) obligation to your WW (though she isn’t showing you any of the same considerations) guilt of making her upset. Consider how much you have been manipulated into feeling this is somehow your responsibility. As you detach and maintain LC the FOG will lift and you will see the truth.

My R for me turned around when I realized that I will be ok if we D, I was no longer scared of it and accepted that it would be a very real outcome. It’s not what I wanted, I never wanted to be a part of this community like all of us, but once I let go of the FOG I was free. It did turn my WW around and made her dig in and she has been working hard to change. It doesn’t happen with every WS. Some are too selfish, some are caught up in the powerful feelings of the A and think it was real, some can’t get enough of those illicit feelings and keep chasing them. You can’t control her decisions, and she may very likely choose to be selfish. If she had put in half of the effort into the marriage that it took for her to have such a deceitful A, imagine where you guys could have been.

At the end of the day remember this, your WW chose to marry you, to make a commitment to you and only you, there was never any reason for her to break it, and you were everything she wanted or else she wouldn’t have married you. You generously gave her a second, third and maybe even a fourth chance. This is all on her.

As you get ready for D, think about it only as a business transaction, keep the emotions out. Your lawyer gets paid by the hour, focus on the business aspects and save the emotions for your Ic/friends/family. Refrain from being petty. If your WW wants the dish towels, just give them to her. Prepare yourself, D may very well not be fair to you. It is what it is, and getting through it is more important than getting justice. There is no justice in affairs. Your goal is to take care of yourself and the family, it doesn’t always mean fair.

Focus on your kids, they will need you the most during this. Tell them age appropriate truth about why this is happening. Maybe even do it with your MC. It would be even better if you and your WW could at least tell them together but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that. Kids may blame you at first if you end up being one to tell them. That’s ok, it will hurt but in time they will see the truth. Don’t trash your WW to them, just be there and love them and help them.

I’ve been reading all of your posts, and I am truly sorry for what you have been going through.

ETA: If she's still working with AP, she's still getting the dopamine hit. Doesn't matter if it's all professional or not.

Yea, I've had this thought. From what she's told me she minimizes all interactions to Im's and emails and she tries to be short and brief. She says she needs distance from him and me equally so she can try and gain that clarity and stop being indecisive. But I recognize that any interaction with him gives her something to hang on. Her boss now knows and I think there's a possibility shes starting to feel some of the consequences within her professional life. Shes a manager and has a lot of people that report directly to her. She is very much a people pleaser and she gains a lot of validation from what people think of her. I imagine she would lose a lot of that respect she has if people find out what she did.

I gave my WW 6 months to pull her head out of her ass and fix what she broke (or at least start). She didn't, I filed, best decision of my life. I cannot tell you how much peace I now have in my life. My EXWW, not so much.

This is something I'm trying to have perspective on. We're still so early into this that I do want to give things time to breathe to see if she's able to detox at all, have more time in both IC and MC and for her to actually think more rationally. The same goes for me in terms of the things I'm working on. I recognize that I wasn't a perfect partner and there were gaps that I had. I'm making those changes for me,my son and my future partner whoever that is. I've been reading a lot on stoicism and it has been incredibly helpful to me start to gain control and composure. I feel deep down that I'll know when I know that things are over. I'm not there yet. I'm just going to keep making my changes to be a better person because I know what I'm capable of.

Well she’s right, if she walks away she isn’t trying and it is all her fault. All of this is her fault. It’s rare in a relationship that someone can put all of the blame on one spouse or the other, but with infidelity and quitting instead of R, all of that is on the WW. You gave her a lot more of a chance then she ever deserved, and now she’s throwing it away.

I’m not beating you up, you have been given a ton of solid advice already and have been told many cold hard truths. I know what it is like, I had a very similar experience as you. Have you ever heard of FOG? Fear, Obligation, Guilt. It’s what keeps people in abusive relationships or toxic ones. WSs are masters at manipulating their BSs with these powerful feelings. I’ve seen it a lot in your posts, fear of losing everything (threatening custody of your DD) obligation to your WW (though she isn’t showing you any of the same considerations) guilt of making her upset. Consider how much you have been manipulated into feeling this is somehow your responsibility. As you detach and maintain LC the FOG will lift and you will see the truth.

My R for me turned around when I realized that I will be ok if we D, I was no longer scared of it and accepted that it would be a very real outcome. It’s not what I wanted, I never wanted to be a part of this community like all of us, but once I let go of the FOG I was free. It did turn my WW around and made her dig in and she has been working hard to change. It doesn’t happen with every WS. Some are too selfish, some are caught up in the powerful feelings of the A and think it was real, some can’t get enough of those illicit feelings and keep chasing them. You can’t control her decisions, and she may very likely choose to be selfish. If she had put in half of the effort into the marriage that it took for her to have such a deceitful A, imagine where you guys could have been.

At the end of the day remember this, your WW chose to marry you, to make a commitment to you and only you, there was never any reason for her to break it, and you were everything she wanted or else she wouldn’t have married you. You generously gave her a second, third and maybe even a fourth chance. This is all on her.

As you get ready for D, think about it only as a business transaction, keep the emotions out. Your lawyer gets paid by the hour, focus on the business aspects and save the emotions for your Ic/friends/family. Refrain from being petty. If your WW wants the dish towels, just give them to her. Prepare yourself, D may very well not be fair to you. It is what it is, and getting through it is more important than getting justice. There is no justice in affairs. Your goal is to take care of yourself and the family, it doesn’t always mean fair.

Focus on your kids, they will need you the most during this. Tell them age appropriate truth about why this is happening. Maybe even do it with your MC. It would be even better if you and your WW could at least tell them together but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that. Kids may blame you at first if you end up being one to tell them. That’s ok, it will hurt but in time they will see the truth. Don’t trash your WW to them, just be there and love them and help them.

I’ve been reading all of your posts, and I am truly sorry for what you have been going through.

This was very helpful for me so thank you. I take responsibility for my side of the street in terms of the state of our marriage before the affair but that's not an excuse or justification for the choices she made She made those choices and will need to live with them. She made a comment in MC last week that came from a fearful place. She said "how do I know you can forgive me and won't hold it over me the rest of our lives". I told her that what she did is baggage that I will carry forever. IF we can work things out than she will carry it with me. The same way the things I've done to her that have hurt her she will carry and I will help carry. Ultimately though I believe truly that if we do the work, that I'm capable of forgiving her and letting it go. It will always be there for sure, but I would never hold it over her head if I'm able to forgive and let go because that's how I've always been. And then I said something that I realized was my WHY. The reason I keep coming back to why I know I want to reconcile despite the horrible thing she did. And I said to her "I love you more than I hate the thing you did to me". It was such a powerful moment for me. I hadn't thought that thought before, it just came out. It's why I know I'm capable of working through this regardless if she works through it with me or not.

I am more than 5 years out.

This was my experience too.

" Infidelity is so extremely painful. My XWH wanted everybody to think he was Mr. Wonderful. I was the one that ended the M and filled for D. Nite, he can say I was the one that wanted out of the M. Of course, he wasn't going to say anything about his infidelity."

I wish you peace and healing.

I spent a lot of years trying to fix things and I think I got weaker while he got stronger. I know I have a lot more energy and peace without him in
my life.

I am more than 5 years out.

This was my experience too.

This is in reference to my post right? The way you quoted I wasn't sure. What I know is that I am on a path of transformation and change now. I identified fairly early in the process that my ego was holding me back from really looking at myself and the part I played in our marriage weakening and becoming vulnerable the way it did. As I've said her decisions are hers but I do own that there were gaps that I had in relation to my emotional competency and how I dealt with my emotions. After I devoured (and still am devouring) all sorts of books and content in relation to affairs and infidelity I started working on my personal development. I understand now the pillars to healthy relationships, how I have conversations, how I process my emotions (in stoic terms, not letting the inner wolf control me), and learning to accept that things that are not in my control. I am making massive strides and at some point I will leave my wife in the dust if I wake up one day and realize I'm ready to truly move on no matter where she is in the process. I think her ego is holding her back from actually accepting responsibility and understanding that there are things she really needs to work on and change. She has some narcissistic tendencies, she has issues relating to vanity, and she relies too much on validation and happiness from outside sources because she's not able to derive it from herself. I've learned so much that I feel like I understand her affair and why she did what she did better than she does (to a degree). In the end, she has to want to change and take responsibility. I don't think she's there yet but if she is getting to "rock bottom" then maybe theres an inflection point coming where she will start to turn a corner. Being so close to DDay, how quickly can people resolve to change? I'm not sure, but I'm willing to give her some time to figure that out.

Everybody is different SI there's no magic timetable. Some people realize they need to change right away, while others never change.

"I don’t think she’s clear yet but She said she’s worried if she walks away, her family will blame her for not trying hard enough. To me, She’s looking for someone to validate her decision, no matter what she decides.

Well that sure is interesting! Her most pressing concern isn't her sons and their well-being, but instead, what people will say about HER. Something to think about indeed.

Why give her time? What time? You are her husband. Say that again, you are her husband. Say it to yourself again, you are her husband, you don’t win her back. This sounds like pick me dance still, and believe me, no one wins pick me other than WS/AP. She already chose you when she said "I Do" she has to win you back after having an affair.

Why offer the painful but gracious process of R with someone who is on the fence? I let my WW know that I won’t even attempt R with her if she wasn’t all in. There was no time for her to find herself, it’s me or D, no middle ground. There is no point of offering R if she can’t make her mind up. If she doesn’t want to be in the marriage, then just go. IMO, she doesn’t get to have an affair and then string you along "if" she wants to R.

She’s still in contact with AP, she doesn’t care about how you feel, she doesn’t care about the damage she could cause your family, she only cares about how people will see her. Think about that. She had the audacity to demand from you an apology letter and wallowing about how you hurt her when you confronted her boyfriend. That’s her rock bottom, she is the bad guy not that she has hurt so many people by her selfishness. Every D she talks to AP she is choosing D not R.

Again bro, I have been in very similar circumstances, I had to get my head out of my own ass and really see the truth. Don’t torture yourself to make her happy or to get her to change. She is burning you to keep herself warm and you are asking her if you should pour more gas on you.

You say you're giving her time to detox. Gently, she can't detox if she's working with him.

It's time to set a boundary and enforce it.

You to her: If you continue working at the same place as him, I won't be able to continue even attempting to R. I'll be filing for D in a week if you haven't quit.

So to me that also means that it’s really just a matter of time before she is able to make that decision on her own and so I need to move towards the conclusion that she does not want to reconcile and there won’t be any sort of healing between us.

Looks like you are still putting your future in the hands of your abuser....

Look H&B531, you keep talking about choices, and that your WW has to make a choice, and it seems a bit odd.

1. She should not be having to make a choice, as that decision was done when she said 'I do', and you put a ring on her finger.
2. You do not seem to want to make a choice also, and seem to be conflict avoidant, perhaps worrying too much about the future.

All the books you read, and all the videos/podcasts that you consume, may put you into an analysis-paralysis spiral, which will be detrimental for you if you cannot stay focused.

Am not trying you to 'force' you to head towards D, but 'force' you to start walking your own path, and not keep waiting for a decision by your WW.

By waiting for your WW to make a decision, you are surrendering more of your own self-worth/integrity. You are still seeing your WW as 'something worth waiting for', a Prize.

One day, when all this calms down, you will realize that in these situations, the BS is always the Prize all along, not the WS....

I have been in your shoes re workplace AP who continued to work together. I can tell you a few things about that from my experience: 1) the NC except for work stuff is likely not true (my WH had an A with a co-worker, and the OBS also worked with them - so all 3 worked together even after D-day1 and the A went underground); 2) allowing my WH to be "unsure" and sticking around to wait and see or even letting him think I was open to letting him figure himself out was a mistake as it was just a waste of my time and emotional energy; 3) you need to move towards whatever thought process helps you move forward with your life.

Here's the thing - there is NO way to know what will happen. The very short version of my case is that my WH's A went underground for a year after d-day1 with the same workplace AP - they were "in love" and had some fantasy land loose and totally un-executed plan to leave their respective partners and "run off" together (it really was more like they were going to stay right where they were and everyone was just going to accept their star-crossed lovers relationship or whatever). He looked me in the face and lied everyday about it continuing, about their communication, about pretty much everything except that he was "unsure" how he wanted to proceed with us. I allowed him to ultimately decide he wanted to end things permanently, 1.5 years after d-day1, with 1 year 3 months of false-R, all that time feeling devalued and not being enough for my WH and all the other negative associations that come with the "I don't know what I want" declarations. My departure was delayed by COVID lockdown, and during that time we terminated our marriage, and I planned to move away, but things also went south at his workplace - co-workers learned of the A (as did the OBS as I told him about it) and the A blew up and ended badly apparently. I was still at the house for the next 6 months my WH then "changed" his mind again and didn't want me to leave...I left anyway. He now, after 3+ years of therapy, has made a lot of strides in his behaviors, and really wants us to get back together. We date, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

Why am I telling you this? Because you simply cannot know what your WH will do or how they feel or if/when that will change, but you can know how this makes you feel. You can put a stop to it. You just have to let go of the outcome (as honestly the outcome I have now I would have NEVER guessed would come to pass anyway).

Letting go of the outcome was a mantra that was preached a lot around here in 2017-18 when I was going through my d-days and it remains relevant. You cannot control what your WS will do. Sticking around while someone is unsure is an attempt to control an outcome that you simply cannot. Being there, waiting and available, isn't going to help your situation. While I'm sure some waywards will tell themselves "had my BS waited a bit longer and not left me I would have worked it out" a WS can always try to make that happen, so that is just an excuse.

She chooses both as long as both is an option. I said it before in another thread of yours.

As for mutual friend, how long has she known about the A? Before you? Is she really a mutual friend?

I went through a real mind fuck when I found out a mutual friend of ours that I thought learned about the A through me, may have known about it sooner, and what's worse was herself in a long term A. I'm not saying a similar situation is likely for you, but you are still sorting out what your reality is and was. Be careful who you trust and why

Sending strength.

I outright asked if she would be happier if she just walked away. She said "I…Don’t know."

This is a hard place to be in your marriage. You are in limbo. And living in limbo is like living in hell.

You are now being compared to the AP. I was in your shoes for months. I was forced (in hindsight) to audition for my role as wife after 25 years of marriage. It was BRUTAL!

At the time I was certain my H wanted me to D him so he had "no responsibility in the decision". That was the game he was playing. He wanted to be the "victim".

My H eventually snapped out of his affair fog 6 months later after dday2. He was then begging to R after doing nothing but cheating for 6 months while I was working my butt off to R.

I don’t know how long you can live with her "I don’t know" comment. My only suggestion is protect yourself and don’t allow her to call the shots. She may run back to the AP (as soon as you are separated — she may use that as a "green light" to justify her cheating).

Read up on the 180 (as you have done). Do not allow her to control the situation and call the shots. Also don’t be her plan B b/c she may try to come running back if the AP ends it with her. That doesn’t mean she chooses you & the marriage. It just means she’s choosing the “sure thing”.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:44 PM, Friday, July 21st]

@HurtAndBroken531 How are things going now?

@1994

Thanks for following up. That post feels like forever ago.

Long story short, WW was indeed still talking to AP after telling me she wanted to stop because she wanted to stop hurting me. We stopped couples therapy because we were going for different reasons. She moved out this past weekend and we aren’t talking at all except in reference to the kids. She’s still coming over to do split schedule since she’s not yet ready to have the kids over to her place overnight yet.

We came up with terms for our separation but honestly I don’t know what the point was. I don’t see this going anywhere but divorce.

She’s still experiencing cognitive dissonance but I’ve basically stopped caring and am moving on with my life. Her lying for the third time about talking to him was really the eye opener for me and allowed me to just pull back completely.

I have no idea what she’s doing day to day and I don’t care. I have hyper focused on myself and my kids and she keeps fucking up. Everytime she messes up with the kids I write it down. One morning she completely overslept and missed her entire morning shift with our boys. So I just stepped up and did what I needed to.

At a certain point I realized I was trying to excuse what she said and did because of the drug addict/limerence/affair fog but then it hit me that she is still the person who perpetrated this massive betrayal. I don’t even know if I want any kind of relationship with her at this point.

I am capable of being an amicable coparent but right now I don’t trust her in any capacity and I don’t want her as a friend or anything. The sooner I am able to heal and move on the better. She can (and I truly hope she does) live a miserable shitty life and I don’t care about her anymore. I want to feel nothing for her.

You sound like you're handling this about as well as possible and in a relatively short time. Hopefully you're achieving genuine detachment, which will make this easier. My experience with my WF (Wayward Fiancee) was a long time ago, but I vividly remember every cruel comment and injustice. I was literally saved by my now-wife who has provided me with a really good life for over 30 years. However, those random pains and triggers from so long ago still pop up periodically despite me giving zero sh1ts about her. The injustice still haunts me. In hindsight, someone could have made a checklist from me on what not to do. You seem to be getting all of the big decisions right.
Just remember that when her fog lifts, and it probably will, she will promise you the world. Now that she's definitively off of her pedestal, keep it around to remind you as a shrine of what she's capable of.
Your children will always associate you with grace and strength. Your focus on them is admirable.
Stay strong.