SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,

I am still fairly new here. I have been reading through reconciliation stories. I am mostly seeing WH being sorry and trying to save their marriage. I don't see much of WW doing the same. This doesn't give me much of a hope since I have a WW. So far she is in complete affair fog. She has been sitting on the fence for 3 months now. I initiated the 180 but she not responsive and still fully immersed in her EA and calls the AP daily. She is going to IC but she says she is not sure if she want to reconciliate. "She needs to work on herself" etc..

I am getting ready to give her the ultimatum that I am moving forward with D.

I initially had hopes that this might knock her off the fence but now I thinking It might just finalize and seal the deal for us. Just feeling really down at this point. Is there anyone with a WW similar to my situation who managed a successful reconciliation?

A short version of my advice is contained in a forum post I made that got upgraded to an article in the healing library.

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/recovery/three-years-(and-a-day)-what-I-did-to-reconcile/

I posted in your other thread and think you are well on your way to "being willing to lose the M in order to save it".

It's really hard to wrap your head around the idea that you WW is in a totally different frame of decision making than you are still in. While she would be unwilling to put it this way, she is continuing to choose whatever is maximizing her nearest level of pleasure. Whatever keeps you at least moderately on the hook while still seeing AP is her biggest possible win. She wants both. She will continue to pursue both as long as both is an option.

All you are doing is removing yourself from the "both" condition she is trying to maintain. That doesn't "knock her off her fence" because she was never choosing between two options. That's the whole problem with the "pick me" dance. It suggests there is a choice to be made, but a WS doesn't ever pick. They aren't in a frame to pick. They are in a frame to maintain their double life as long as possible. They want the attention of two (or more) people simultaneously with at least one providing a stable household and at least one providing excitement on the side. She doesn't want to be with AP in a legitimate long term relationship any more than she wants to have an illicit relationship with you.

I'm so sorry you're here. Have a FWH who went all in early on. Basically through OW under the bus. You can recover/reconcile, but both parties have to want it bad. It's the hardest work I've ever done. It has been worth it, but tremendously difficult.

In our case, my FWH had the classic middle life crisis affair. OW, I believe was an exit affair for her. She was my "friend". They ended up divorced after trying for 9 months or so. To my knowledge, FWH went NC one week post DDay.

Get yourself into IC.

In my case, I was fairly clear that FWH broke us, and he had to drive the recovery bus if we were to be fixed.

I disagree that it’s WH Vs WW as far as remorseful goes. There are no shortage of BWs here who are still struggling with their relationships and continued shit behavior from the WH.

The 180 and grey rock are often mistaken as the snap the WS out of the fog trick, and that simply isn’t true. They are for you to escape from infidelity, to detach and be able to make a decision without having the overwhelming emotional baggage. It’s to protect yourself. Sometimes the detachment can shake the WS, sometimes it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter really.

She’s still massively disrespecting you and will continue to do so without consequences. This will continue, or she will likely leave to be with her "twue love" or "twin flame" or any other nonsense APs become. What you do or don’t do will not control her actions. You need to stand up for yourself, and do something about this. Right now it’s still pick me and you’re hoping she will come around.

Ultimatums never work, or the WS will call your bluff.

I am not saying do one or the other, but unless you do something it won’t change. You don’t have many options, leave and or file, or stay in an adulterous relationship. You can always make a decision to R later if things change.

Give up "hope" she will come around. She may, she may not. It goes both ways. Two things that seem to end affairs, being served with papers, or the affair relationship losing its sparkle (dumped by AP, discovered AP is seeing other people, actually living with AP and realizing they aren’t who they claimed to be)

I can personally confirm that me being prepared to end my marriage, that giving up and getting ready to D through my WW completely and set us on the path to R.

I am sorry man, it’s a tough place to be.

I've been there, waiting for my H to climb down off the fence. It's rough. I'm sorry. I can tell you, though, that most WS will remain perched up there for as long as you'll allow it, like TIF said. Your WW is a "cake-eater." She wants your cake and she wants AP's cake, and she doesn't want to have to pick a favorite. Even though it's scary as hell and the potential outcome might not be what you want, removing your cake from the table is the only way to stop the madness. She'll figure out pretty quickly which cake she really wants when her options are removed.

I strongly recommend that you file for D. Don't give her a heads up. Don't talk about it. Don't issue an ultimatum. Just do it. Let her really FEEL the consequences of her actions. It may have the desired outcome, or it may not, but either way you'll be out of infidelity sooner rather than later.

I wish you luck and peace.

Sorry you find yourself here brother. I think you’ve received some great advice though. Waywards are waywards regardless of WH or WW. There are gonna be some WS that are R material and some that are D material because they will not do the work to become safe partners and candidates for R.

Given what you’ve described, your WW hasn’t given you snot to work with. Your only options at this point are to a) remain in limbo while she continues cheating, thus requiring you to share your wife or b) divorce her cheatin’ ass. Limbo is like the 7th ring of hell (from my experience) and so I would recommend you continue detachment and to go hire an attorney and get your divorce process started. Also, if the AP is married, have you informed the OBS? Affairs are like cockroaches 🪳, they love the dark but shine a little light (truth) and they scurry for the exits. This forum is full of stories where the the WS & AP were star crossed soulmate lovers and when their affair was exposed, throw each other under the bus so damn fast it’ll make your head spin. Maybe that isn’t the case nor an option in your scenario , but if there is an OBS, the kind and honorable thing to do is at least inform the poor woman that her husband is sleeping with your wife.

She is only sitting on the fence because you are letting her. I know it sounds much easier than it is but you are allowing it. All you have to do is not allow her to be shared any longer.

but she not responsive and still fully immersed in her EA and calls the AP daily.

This is going to wear you down. Glad to see you are implementing the 180 but I would also file for D. You can always stop the D process IF she ended the A, and started working on herself and the M to become remorseful. Sometimes the actions of a WS after D-Day kill the M. You may feel differently towards her as time goes on even if you were to R there are no guarantees you will want to stay married to her.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 8:05 PM, Wednesday, September 6th]

I'd go shock and awe and file for divorce.

Please don't wait another minute waiting for her to make a decision about YOUR future.

Please don't allow her to disrespect you another minute by flaunting her affair in your face while she is still in the marital home.

My WH dumped OW on D-day and never looked back. If he chose further contact with her, I would have divorced in a nanosecond.

Edited to add: If her head comes out of her ass, you can always slow down the divorce or stop it.

[This message edited by annb at 9:26 PM, Wednesday, September 6th]

Hi, WW here and fully reconciled.

I actually think it’s not ww or wh, it’s more the type of cheater you are dealing with.

There are ws’s who are purely in it for physical. Perhaps there are more men than women in this category but I don’t think there is the disparity one might think. Usually these are the cake eaters.

I unconsciously was having an exit affair. I wanted to blow up my marriage because I was so miserable. But it took the roof blowing off for me to realize I was miserable because of me- I didn’t speak up, I felt like I couldn’t effect change, and a lot of that was just having poor relationship, coping, and communication skills. It actually ended up having little to do with his side of the marriage and more to do with the false feedback he was getting from me and my perfectionist, people pleasing ways.

But what happens regardless of the type of affair sometimes addiction becomes part of it. Hits of dopamine is what the addiction is to just like a gambling or shopping addiction. You can see the devastation it’s causing but by then you think that means the ap is the cause rather than your brain.

I was your wife in a lot of ways. It was a hard climb out. The best thing you can do in this situation is focus on you. What you need, what you want. Be firm with her and your boundaries. That feels terrifying when you don’t want to loose someone but your wife can’t see you as a soft place to fall right now. She needs to feel the severity of the situation. I don’t mean become abusive or mean (not that you would) but to grow some firm boundaries and maintain them.

Unfortunately the only reason someone pulls themselves out of addiction is they are at rock bottom. There is no comfortable place for them to be. They have no choice but to change.

You can’t control what that is. You can only control what you will subject yourself to. It sounds like her time in comfort is up. She needs to make the next steps. IC, reading, journaling. There is nothing that would stop her from trying to find the answers within herself.

Reconciliation happens after recovery and neither of you have reached that plateau yet. Recovery for her should look like she is working her ass off to work on herself. For you it looks like knowing you will be fine either way and you are going to remain focused on your needs and wants and are willing to put space there for your own protection. As long as you are there to coddle her she experiences no loss from her addiction.

If she does the work, she maybe worth while to work on reconciliation. But she isn’t doing her part and you can’t do it for both of you. She needs to see clearly she wants and needs to get this to the other side.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:14 PM, Thursday, September 7th]

I initiated the 180 but she not responsive and still fully immersed in her EA and calls the AP daily. She is going to IC but she says she is not sure if she want to reconciliate. "She needs to work on herself" etc..

You can't change your W. You can change only yourself here.

The 180 is aimed at exactly that: changing yourself. It is not aimed at changing the WS. If you want your W to do something different, ask. Be prepared for her not to comply, and decide how you want to respond to that.

The best way to heal - perhaps the only way - is to take responsibility for yourself. You have to figure out what you want and go for it, and that means taking risks. You have to risk yourself and your M to save yourself and your M - and you can't always save your M.

It's one thing to make a conscious decision to wait; that sometimes works to get a BS what they want. It's quite another to try to manipulate someone else to do what you want. Even when that does succeed, it pretty much dooms you to a life of hiding yourself to keep the manipulation going.

You seem to want R. Is that what you really want? R takes two. Shutting down communication with your W hasn't shut down communication between your W and her ap. How likely is it that continuing the course you're on will get her to stop? Is it time to change course?

The next thing you might hear is the ILYBNILWY (I love you but not in love with you ) speech.

If your spouse is talking to the AP daily that’s not good. That’s putting the cheater’s desires ahead of the marriage.

Realize affairs are somewhat like addictions. Which is part of the reason the cheater doesn’t want it to end.