SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Background: BS (34, m), wife (34, f), together 17 years. Friends for 28, first and only everything. No kids.

In MC for 10 months after a fight (maybe the first real one) when she danced with a guy (John) she had previously told me she didn’t want me to worry about. In individual therapy for 4 months prior (and through to today).

MC has focused on our problems- sex life, sex initiation, codependency, buying a house we thought the other one each wanted, living the life we thought we were supposed, me working too much, lack of emotional connection, the works. Pretty good teammates, genuinely enjoy each others company, great friends but lack of passion.

Major theme of therapy has been she needs to have her independence- I’ve agreed I’d like to not be so solely focused on each other as well. I give space, but she claims to need more. I travel for a month, come back and says she still thinks it won’t work. Then she asks for a semi-permanent separation, being afraid of divorce (her parents divorced when she was two).

I said I was open to it, until she said and she wants to be able to date other people. For me 6 months to work on myself sounds awesome to allow me to be the man/husband I want to be, but if your spouse wants to see other people, that’s a) a showstopper and b)this comment tells me there already is someone else, and good human/big heart that she has, I think this was a messed up way of getting permission.

I’ve done a pick me dance- some good results (60 lbs lost, marathon this weekend, strongest I’ve ever been, better mental health- she’s noticed, but it feels too late, and she thinks its just for her).

Her dating comment results in me snooping. Long phone calls, lots of text messages, inconclusive but I knew in my gut. Checked journal, she mentions he is her soulmate, and they spent all night while I was out of the country trying not to kiss, he left at 5am. AP comes up in the journal for months and more often than me. Journal refers to me as incredible man, and means her giving up security (yuck). I shouldn’t have snooped but revealing the secrecy she’s brought into our marriage seems less damning than her infidelity.

She doesn’t know that I know, but she definitely is picking up on negative mood.

AP has been out of the country for a few months, and she’ll be out a few months with no crossover likely until Jan. We are planning to file once she has a new job.

I can own my role in the downfall of our marriage, and I’ve spent the last two years trying to fix it. I’ve read affairs thrive in secrecy, I’d love to try and build a new marriage. She’s clearly in affair fog. Is there a way to blow this up such that maybe we have a chance? If it truly is love, perhaps we’re better off, but limerence seems more likely.

Also, I should mention, she’s currently applying for work and on my visa. I make far more in my field than she does, if I file and become the villain l, the likelihood of a brutal settlement is pretty high.

My top goal is reconciliation, but in exposing the affair, I risk immensely in a divorce settlement. Anyone experienced something similar.

Matttrick - It's a lot of shared history to contemplate letting go of, and I know that's an agony all it's own. My feeling is that if you're already on a path to separation and divorce based on work you've done in MC, and there's no kids involved, it may be better to let it run it's course and move on.
Your discovery of an affair (it's an affair) might make you feel like you've found the "reason" for the dysfunction - and if you could just fix it, you'd be able to get back on track and salvage the relationship. In reality, you'd be starting back at square one. Because there's an elicit affair going on, the issues you've tackled in MC have probably been more like 'decoys' to warm you up to the idea of her eventually being with someone else, when in reality, she's already with him.
Hate that you're here and wish you the best.

Hi Mattrick

Sorry you have found yourself here but you will receive good support. Please read in the healing library and the pinned threads. Get tested for STDs. See an attorney to learn your rights and get the lay of the land. You’ve been doing the pick me dance and it is just pushing her further away. Always value yourself. Quit blaming yourself. You are not a perfect partner. Neither is your WW. You have known your WW forever and been in a relationship since your teens. She is sending the message that she has checked out of your M. You can’t control her or force her to want to be in the M. Take care of you. Sometimes you have to risk losing your M, to have any chance at saving it.

It appears your WW values you for support and security. Is that the type of relationship you wish to have going forward. Don’t apologize for snooping. Your WW should be transparent. Accept no blame for her cheating. Nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to cheat.

It sounds like she is actively in an A. Implement the 180 and stop chasing. You deserve a partner who loves and cherishes you. You are the prize. Quit blaming yourself. I know this is very hard to accept in such a lifelong relationship. Get help in IC. Get out and be active. You are still young with so much life ahead. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:43 PM, Tuesday, November 7th]

You will find, on this site, many veterans who will tell you always, always, look at their actions. How they behave toward you, and others, will tell you everything about what they want. Her words probably mean nothing UNLESS they are congruent with her behavior. Congruency means she says she wants freedom and her behavior shows she wants freedom. She has not acted like a loving wife, she is not sounding like a loving wife, so she’s probably not a loving wife. Please pay attention to all the clues in front of you because they are right there.

Also, I should mention, she’s currently applying for work and on my visa. I make far more in my field than she does, if I file and become the villain l, the likelihood of a brutal settlement is pretty high.

First course of action is to seek legal advice on what D means. Not guessing. Getting legal advice on how exactly to handle this with the minimum of disruption to your life. Because you now know the wife is planning on ejecting you from her life. Just that it isn't a good time for her now. She wants to use you until it is.

Checked journal, she mentions he is her soulmate, and they spent all night while I was out of the country trying not to kiss, he left at 5am. AP comes up in the journal for months and more often than me. Journal refers to me as incredible man, and means her giving up security (yuck).

That is going to be incredibly hard for you to move past. You're convenient only. AP is her True LUV. Not really but that's what she has been telling herself and anyone else she's to which she's disclosed the affair. Likely to friends and family not in the know of the affair. Just prepping them for it being your fault instead of hers.

AP has been out of the country for a few months, and she’ll be out a few months with no crossover likely until Jan. We are planning to file once she has a new job.

Get the above legal advice and have her served. Preferably as soon as possible. Stop letting her drive the bus and continue to lie to make things easier for her but harder for you. You may have had flaws, but you were trying to fix them. She instead lied to you and the MC to bide time. She was done before the fight. I can tell you I did overpay the ex in the D. Years down the road I don't regret that as that helped eject her from my life quicker and with less pain.

[This message edited by grubs at 10:35 PM, Tuesday, November 7th]

I'm sorry you had to find us but glad you did. Do not blame yourself or the M for her cheating. This is 100 on her.

she mentions he is her soulmate, and they spent all night while I was out of the country trying not to kiss, he left at 5am.

This is not just an EA, This is a PA, even if you believe no sex happened he spent the night with her, they were physically together and she is in love. You should move forward with D, it will be expensive but you will come out better on the other side. You can also stop it at any time she comes to her senses and meets all of your requirements for R.

I’m so sorry.

She has weaponized independence to conduct an affair. She outwardly to you , others and MC, pretends to work on marriage while secretly she turns away from you to dedicate her emotional connection to another. Her interest in MC was to enable her to build her new life with AP all the while stringing out the story of the breakdown of your marriage for your and family/friends consumption. So she can say she tried.

Its mustache twisting sinister. Cruel. You CAN NOT fix a marriage while one of you conducts an affair. MC has been a sham. You can’t fix what you don’t acknowledge. She lied. She wants her security and her reputation and a nice soft landing with her soul mate.

Get mad. She wooed her affair partner in your home!?! Stop MC, tell her you know she’s lying and that you can’t continue to work and be authentic while she has other priorities.

Talk to a lawyer. Find out your options. Make a plan. Stop the pick me dance. You may not be able to save the marriage, but you can save yourself from spending you life with someone who doesn’t love you the way you deserve. You are the prize.

Google affair fog. Because that is where your spouse is.

She can decide one day to come back to reality. However it is up to her to do so.

If she is outing more effort into the affair than the marriage then I think that you should be prepared for a D.

I can tell you on dday2 (after months of false reconciliation) my H (yet again) demanded a D. Of course he’s not honest about why. I was able to get us an appointment with our marriage counselor and that was a waste of time.

Fast forward a few hours later and I learned (from the OW) the affair never stopped. I snapped. Had enough. Walked up to my H very calmly and told him I was D him.

It was not a threat. I was fully prepared to D him. I had prepared for this for 6 months just in case.

Funny how he’s now begging me to R.

Point is NOTHING I did stopped his affair. At the point he’s wanting to R, hours earlier he ended the affair. Of his own choosing (before my "I am D you" statement).

You cannot change the cheater’s mind. But you don’t have to sit around and watch it either.

I hope this helps you.

Thank you for all the words of support and encouragement. It’ll take me time to digest all your advice and kindness but tons of great insight!

Matt

For me it is simple and basic. I know you are probably thinking in nuances, but I believe in direct honesty.

So by that, I mean I would tell her:

"I need a partner spouse who sees me as their one and only. It is clear to me that I am not that person for you. Your heart is with another person.

I will not stand in the way of you finding true love with this other person. I am sad you cannot find it with me.

But if this other person is goi g to be in your heart and life, it won’t be with me as your husband.

So I’m letting you go. It would take years to rebuild trust enough that you are a safe partner for me. I can’t guarantee you ever could. So it’s best that you pursue this on your own.

I will begin the legal process to legally end the marriage that your choice to let another into your heart has already emotionally ended.

I wish you well in finding what you are looking for. I hope it makes you happy.

I’ll now work to heal on my own. If someday down the road you decide you can dedicate yourself to our relationship and our relationship alone, let me know. If I’m in a place that I could commit to build something new with you, let me know.

But until then I believe it’s best that we only focus on coparenting and finances as we go our separate ways.

I wish you well"

Then leave it at that. Work with a lawyer to make it happen.

Who knows, maybe it will break the spell over her. If not, you’ll be on the path to finding a new life for you with possibly someone who has your best interests in mind vs her own.

Matttrick

I appreciate and realize that you two have a very long history, and that she is and has been a major part of your life.
However…
Reality is what reality is and the following is IMHO the absolute best way forwards for you IMHO – with the strongest possibility of saving your marriage, although realistically that possibility is very weak.

Remember – chances are that she too has the same history and is possibly just as afraid of ending this as you are.

As Colley2here suggested: Look at her actions.
Sometimes people can say one thing but do another. At some point you need to focus on the ACTIONS and not what comes out of the mouth. See if there is any correlation between the two. It’s like if your friend owes you money and constantly tells you that he’s paying tomorrow… only he’s been saying that for three months… you would be foolish to think he’s being honest now. Your wife has been indicating she wants to be married but also verbally confirming that she wants a loosening of the marital conditions, as well as actions indicating she doesn’t want to be married.

Imagine you have your arms stretched out to either side. In one hand we could call "marriage" you have 100 pounds of marriage and marriage conditions. Your wife is slowly transferring pound after pound to your other hand – the hand marked "quasi-marriage". At some point you might still have one pound left in the marriage-hand, but the weight of your marriage will be in the quasi-marriage hand. You could insist that since you still hang on to that one pound you are married – just like you could insist your friend has already paid because he told you for the 89th time he’s paying tomorrow.

Her actions – each and every one except one – say she’s checked out.
The one that doesn’t say she has checked out is simply the one of having not legally committed to divorce. But… separation with an aim of making it permanent, separate finances, dating other men AND now asking for your acceptance that she dates other men… Heck… you hardly have a single pound left in your marriage hand.

I suggest you do two things: Accept reality and force the issue. Anybody that’s been on this site for more than a month has probably read this or some version of this speech I’m suggesting.
Sit your wife down and say:

"Wife. I love you and always thought we would go through life together. I would move the Earth to save our marriage. Yet I have had an epitheny: Losing you is NOT the worst outcome of this situation. Sharing you with another man is immensely worse. I know that I can recover from losing you, but I can’t ever accept sharing you.
Therefore I am setting you free.
You can date anyone, live in any way or form you chose and interact with anyone and anything. Only not as my wife.
I am starting the formal and emotional process of ending our marriage. There is no rush – we can ensure the legal process is fair and all bases are covered – but the process starts NOW and requires that we both do what is required to complete it as amicably and fairly as possible. There are laws in place that should ensure we are both protected.

I am too emotionally attached to our relationship to deal with the formal divorce part and will get a attorney to guide me. He can possibly guide you too, but it’s probably best for you to get your attorney at the right time. I will not discuss the particulars with you.
Nor do I want to discuss our marriage. There is no need for us to work on it while you are committed to separation and your affair [and yes Mattrick – use THAT word – she IS having an affair]

If you have any trepidations about us ending our relationship you have a window to stop this process. To do so you need to tell me that you want this marriage and are willing to work for it. That would require things like total accountability and openness, no contact whatsoever ever again with OM and a commitment to MC and therapy. I’m not forcing you nor will I initiate or remind you of this option again. The further I go along towards divorce the less inclined I will be to back down."

And then you go and fix that drawer in the kitchen or make a sandwich or whatever. She tells you that the marriage lacks intimacy… "I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage this would be addressed. Since you are committed to your infidelity there isn’t a need to go there."
She states you have BO… "I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage this would be addressed. Since you are committed to your infidelity there isn’t a need to go there."
She says your cooking sucks… "I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage this would be addressed. Since you are committed to your infidelity there isn’t a need to go there."

Get it? You no longer feed the drama.
You tell stakeholders the truth:
"My wife wants a separation and has asked to date other people. I know she has romantic incinations to [put name of OM here] and I have no interest in sharing my wife. If you think you can have some positive impact on her then I would appreciate you talk to her, but not remaining in infidelity is my choice and the better way of two evil and hard paths to a better place"

Look Matttrick – I know the above might sound counterproductive, but what you have done to-date has allowed her to slowly, pound-by-pound, move from marriage to quasi-marriage. What I’m suggesting will do either of two things:
Make her realize that she needs to quickly remove the last weight and expectations from marriage – the inevitable end that wouldn’t have been evaded anyways.
OR
Make her stop and think, and maybe even move some weight back from quasi to marriage.

It’s a weak chance, but right now IMHO it’s the ONLY chance you have to save this. At the very least this course of action will be what saves YOU irrespective of her actions.

I agree with those who counsel forcing the issue. Don't reveal your sources, but tell your W you know she's in an A, and she has to choose - you/M vs om..

I'm writing to ask:

How you are the villain, if you file because your W is in the midst of an A?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:26 PM, Wednesday, November 8th]

Just further to the excellent advice you've received from everyone here - get all your ducks in a row first.

This means, before forcing the issue:
- Consult a lawyer, find out what your rights are, get him/her on retainer
- Take stock of your finances, print out statements and examine them, open a new non-joint account, prepare to close off joint accounts, credit cards, etc.
- Copy any incriminating files, emails, pictures, journal entries, texts, etc.
- Consult a doctor/therapist and let them know what you're going through.
- Get a voice-activated recorder (or I guess an app on your phone nowadays) to record any conversations in order to protect yourself against false accusations

Then, when you do finally confront the issue, you can hit with everything at once. Tell her you know of the affair (but don't reveal sources), lay out your boundaries (as most excellently discussed by Bigger), and be ready to execute on separating activities (separating finances, proceeding with a separation agreement) and exposing the affair. Be a confident class act through the whole thing, letting her know that you would prefer to work on the marriage, but that won't happen as long as she's not going to. This is full blown application of reality, and demonstrates that you have the self confidence to take control over your life.

I'm sorry that you find yourself here brother. But if you can commit to respecting and protecting yourself, and on your own healing, you will be okay with a little time and effort.

Fair question @sisoon. I guess my thought is that because I don’t have proof, it could become a he said she said situation.

By filing, I’m concerned that she may have people encourage her to pursue spousal support, which she has previously mentioned she detested in her parents marriage, and has said once separated she sees no right to further support from me. To the points above, what she said may have no bearing on what she’s actually planning, and she’s clearly proven to be untrustworthy.

Bigger and stevens, thanks for the great insights. Should I decide I definitively want to pursue reconciliation, I think the slim path you’ve laid out makes a ton of sense.

I’ll be speaking to lawyers after I return from traveling to understand exposure and ramifications of filing.