SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There’s not much chance of this being a long term affair as apart from these two trips we’ve barely spent time apart and before that was lockdown so nothing happening for those months.

Yeah, my MIL said something very similar about my EXWW. She's too busy to cheat... well, seems like she found the time to cheat...a lot. Cheaters find a way.

I know you are inclined to believe your WW'S version of what happened, and it might be true. It would becthe first timecive seen something happen like that here, but who knows? More likely, she is lying, or atvthe very least, giving you a very sanitized version. The members here, collectively speaking, have a finely tuned bullshit sensor and the more detail you post, the better advice you will get. They also Comme from a place of increased objectivity, in that they don't have a dog in the fight. Yes, we all bring bias, but as a group, I've seen some really insightful comments and advice.

Quite often, we get newly minted BS's who feel that their situation is somehow unique, that we don't understand. Yeah, they either come back, hat in hand, and tell us that there was, in fact,more to the story, or they disappear. I hope you don't do the latter. I think I speak fir all of us when I say, we really do want what's best for you. I think k this site is unique as it is filled with people who care and invest deeply in helping others. I've been out of infidelity for over 5 years, and I come back every day to read and post. The members here helped me immensely and I try, in my own weirdly abrasive way, to help others.

All I'm saying, is that you are at the beginning of a very difficult period and please lean into this site and the aid it can provide. Good luck OP!

You don’t have to be Colombo to figure out if her story is real. If she hired an escort, she will have a record of the correspondence, either through email, texts, or phone records. She should be able to prove this on the spot if you asked.

Also, the fact that you said she would have little time to have an affair because you spend so much time together makes it likely, in my opinion, that this may have been a friendship/emotional relationship that she planned this trip specifically to consummate. While away in this city, she wouldn’t have to account for her time or explain a change in her routine.

Yeah, my MIL said something very similar about my EXWW. She's too busy to cheat... well, seems like she found the time to cheat...a lot. Cheaters find a way.

Exactly. On D-Day, my UW told me about her longest LTA. Our kids were 12 and 10. My daughter had dance every day and my son had baseball every other day. I worked 40 minutes away and the earliest I ever got home was 6:30 PM. All extracurricular activities were on her. She carried on an 18 month affair while keeping up with all the kid activities. I was stunned. How could she find the time?

Well, AP was a tow truck driver. She would meet him in a commuter lot by her office after work. His tow truck had a sleeper compartment. Meet, bang one out (or quick BJ) and then home to the kids. Also told me she had to work on July the 4th (but didn’t) and went to the beach with AP. Also, had AP meet her at my son’s out of town travel ball game. Instead of watching the game, stayed back at hotel banging the AP.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way….

As others are suggesting do not waver or allow her to dissuade you from getting a polygraph.

You will get the real confession in the parking lot before taking the test, if not sooner.

The sooner confession will be something trivial trying to keep the real truth from you do not fall for this.

She can find the money for the polygraph the same place she found the money for the escort, I mean affair partner.

You wrote that your love life dropped off recently, that's likely when the affair started emotionally at least.

Please get the polygraph now can you really imagine yourself with your WW 10 or 20 years from now knowing she is hiding this enormous lie from you.

Get the polygraph for your kids sake so you can recover your marriage and hopefully get back in love with your WW and your WW back in love with you.

When she actually tells you the truth stay calm and listen, because anything and everything can come out of her mouth don't be surprised.

[This message edited by survrus at 1:14 AM, Sunday, November 19th]

Shipney,

You wrote, My wife took a city break to a city a couple of hours drive away last month.

How often did this happen during the 20 years of your marriage.

Oh yea get a DNA test on your kids.

I really fear we might have scared you off…
You see the consensus here is that the story your wife tells you needs corroboration.

Well… MAYBE it’s all true. MAYBE this was a one-off, single-instance, paid-by-funneling-the-grocery-budget event and you have the truth. Or maybe not…

What I see from your two posts is that you want to save your marriage.
After all – that’s why you agreed to MC. To find out whats wrong with the marriage that needs fixing to make your wife not pay for sex and intimacy.

Can I offer you this hope?
This site was founded by a couple that experienced infidelity. That was years – decades – ago. They remained married until the sad and untimely passing of Deeply Scared in 2016. They reconciled and had a good marriage after they did the work required to reconcile. There are other prominent members here that have reconciled from infidelity, and they are here both as betrayed spouses and the wayward spouse that share that they have a happy and fruitful marriage. So yes – You CAN save your marriage.
However… We also have prominent and respected members (as well as me…) that didn’t save their marriage. They either were forced to divorce or decided to divorce. These people too are happy and content. They are so because of their work and strive to be happy and content.

In both instances it’s hard work. That work shouldn’t be to save the marriage or to end the marriage, but rather to get out of infidelity. Those two "solutions" – R or D – are simply paths to that destination.

To divorce you only need to decide so yourself. The process will go through no matter what your wife might say or want.
To reconcile… BOTH parties need to participate and contribute. In the beginning that heavily leans on the WS – your wife.

A KEY FACTOR in reconciling is understanding what you are reconciling from.
It’s a bit like if you have a pain in your body then putting your left foot in a cast won’t work if the pain is caused by a burst appendix. You need to know what you are dealing with…

Let’s assume she’s telling the truth. This is a one-off event. Yet we already know of so many factors that tell us this is heavily premeditated – done with intent. Our experience – the collective experience of thousands – also makes us doubt the truth.

If you were to take her on face-value you need to 100% believe you have the truth. Now – let’s assume that you do so, only you always suspect she only did this once… what will happen 8 years from now if you get some indication this also happened on the previous trip? THAT suspicion will eventually kill your marriage and/or your happiness.

Or what if this is all a lie to hide that she met up with her old boyfriend, or coworker, or your best friend? Do you think you two can deal with a burst appendix by bandaging your foot? Think you can end a relationship that has emotional foundations (as in an affair with someone that starts online) by dealing with her physical needs?
Or if this was an affair with some build-up and an emotional attachment. Our experience indicates that emotional detachment seldom happens just like that. If she met her coworker or lover at that hotel and they had that one tryst and they both promised that it was over… ONE or both will eventually reach out… Maybe just an "innocent" "hey – he knows, but thinks it was somebody else… How are you?".

To work through infidelity the WS needs to fully accept accountability and how wrong it was. There can not remain ANYTHING positive. That is why you NEED THE TRUTH.

A poly has been suggested… Well… Personally I would want more before I would demand that.

I think the key for you is through the financial transactions.
You found 2 tickets to an art-museum. How were they paid? Can you see a time-stamp?
Where did they have dinner? I’m assuming they ate after the museum, since most tend to close early evenings. Who paid? How?
What about the hotel. Who paid? How?
Now keep in mind a couple of things:
If she states she paid everything with cash…
Most hotels require a credit-card and don’t accept cash these days. If she states she paid with cash… I would make two deductions: She’s been hoarding A LOT of money from the household budget or – more likely – her lover paid the hotel. I doubt sex-workers do that.
Same for dinner. If she says she paid cash… That too is suspicious in my mind. Ask her what the had, then go online and find their menu. Most restaurants have that available online. If there is a big discrepancy (I spent 80 and we had steaks and wine, menu says steak is 30 per serving, don’t get much wine for 20…) then I would consider that too an indicator that OM was not on the clock.
You can make enquiries to escort-services for the rate. Yes they vary, but your wife should be able to tell you how she found and selected that particular man, and what she paid. Heck… I went online and searched the price for a male escort in a nearby city and the variance was about 20%. If your wife says 1000 and your research shows that the average is 1500… you can also put doubt on that story.
We don’t have a clue where you are – in the USA, in what state, in what country, in what continent… For all we know your neck of the woods might have legal prostitution and unions and fixed rates and whatever. But even if it’s semi-hidden there will be a price-range.

If all her financial transactions match up… well… it supports her story. Still a big dish of issues you two need to work through, but at least you will be dealing with the REAL issues.
If they don’t… It should cast enough doubt in your mind to realize that there isn’t any way forward until and unless she tells you the truth.

I can promise you this friend: Six months from now you do not want to learn from the wife of your next-door neighbor that her husband and your wife are in communications, nor do you want to suspect something like that is happening.
In this – as in most in life – THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

From experience.

Whatever you have been told is not the truth, it is some form perhaps, however it has been sanitized, sterilization and laundered as many times as possible to make it less damning for the WW.

Investigate, deeply....any anomaly should be seen without the benefit of the doubt.

I've never heard of a woman hiring an escort outside of a movie.

Have your W make the call herself to the escort service to try to set up another meeting - with you hearing everything. That's the easy solution to get some questions answered.

Experience – like in probably 99 out of 100 instances – shows us that the truth is seldom discovered right away…

Shipley, I am someone who wanted reconciliation so badly that I turned away from advice on SI. I'd suggest you take a moment to consider the advantages of the advice be given to you. Offering Reconciliation too early is a mistake, your WW has a lot of difficult work to do. You have not received a full disclosure. Wayward's always seem to lie, its been a successful strategy for them and it's very hard for them to break free to truth. I'm sorry you find yourself here and all the best.

There are several websites offering such services in the city she visited. She has agreed to STD tests though hasn’t actually arranged it yet.

This is the part that says she isn't interested in trying to keep you safe.
She knows she needs to start having sex with you again to fix the marriage. The counseling isn't going to fix her actively looking and finding another guy to sleep with.
Her not rushing to get the test says she isn't trying her hardest to get back into having sex with you or that she thinks you will take action. She is right now where lots of waywards end up, the chicken game. She is staring you down to figure out if you have it in you to divorce her. It means she will continue to do the bare minimum to fix the problems she has now created and that isn't going to work. You will have to change a lot to make your marriage better and if she isn't rushing to make those changes first, you will feel neglected and resentful later.
Marriage counseling is a bad idea right now. She needs to define what she is willing to do right now to get her ass in gear. If she is just saying she is sorry and not doing things to fix the base of the problem, then she is just hoping to rugsweep and marriage counseling will reinforce that behavior.

Secondly like everyone else says, if she wanted a date and sex, she can just go on a dating app. Why use a pro? Bigger asked that and it hit the nail on the head. The guy is not going to be who she said he is and that is all a lie. Not even a good lie. He is probably someone she met online and there are more layers here then you know.
Why did she use a pro when she could have just cheated with someone available? That opportunity has happened. Men have made sexual advances at her, so why go pay and leave town when she could have gone with someone she knows and they will keep her secret? Oh, and menopause is a bull crap reason to do things. Hormones are not an excuse. That is like a guy saying his hormones made him horny so he started hooking up with every girl.

Hey OP. I hope you are still with us. I realize that this place can be a little daunting especially to those who are looking for confirmation that what they initially think or feel about their situation is correct. This place is definitely not an echo chamber. That's what makes it so valuable. There is literally nothing you are going to experience that has not been seen before, so stick around.

My EXWW hated me visiting this site. She would say that oeople were negative and putting ideas into my head. The truth was, this site gave me clarity and as a result, she lost control of the narrative. I was so in shock that I could not see the facts that were staring me in the face. Early on, I looked for any information that could convince me that not only could my M be saved, but that it would be better than ever. If I could only go back and slap myself...

The reality is, you have suffered trauma and are at the beginning of a healing journey. You are also among people who have suffered as well and want to journey with you. Hope you stay.

Shipney so sorry you are here with all of us who have experienced or are experiencing this sort of betrayal, heartbreak and trauma. I am new and I don’t want to to add to your trauma but I do think that there are three very important things that need saying:

1. You cannot forgive until you have a reasonable idea about what you are forgiving. And the longer this takes to discover with reasonable confidence, the harder you will find it to be to forgive. In my own case, the delays in finding out what was going on and what was the underlying intent behind my WW’s actions and all the lying by omission were worse for me than the offence itself.

2. Do not believe your WW. She kept this hidden from you and would arguably have never told you had you not discovered this. My WW started an EA. I was always trying to give her the benefit of the doubt when I first found out and keep her on the pedestal I had put her on. Nearly all of the very wise people here cautioned me against doing that. Someone here said that you must put all such thoughts aside and assume the very worst when confronting her. In my case they were right even if the ultimate boundary in my case was not crossed.

3. On the story itself, I find the idea of hiring a sex worker for the first time for an entire night very difficult to contemplate. For two reasons. Firstly the amount of intimacy this would require with a complete stranger is a different order of magnitude for me. Sleeping together, waking up together, doing it multiple times (sorry )etc. With a stranger. It’s more than a one time act and a greater level of betrayal IMHO. I just cannot see many doing this for the first time with a complete stranger. Apologies to all if this is judgemental. Secondly the cost. Many could not just drop the $1500+ unseen that this would cost in a single payment. So the amount of planning, intent and repetitive actions the squirrelling of such over time would require makes this worse IMHO as this is a multiple-time betrayal.

Sorry to add to your trauma but it’s better to take the pain upfront if you can….mine dragged on far too long and made the likelihood for R far lower as a result.

[This message edited by Olderandhappier at 6:07 PM, Monday, November 20th]

OP here, thanks for your comments. I recognize and feel the raw emotions and am working on keeping a level head even in this trauma. I’m quite sure about the basic facts of this and here’s the thing. Neither my wife nor I are in the full flush of youth. We’re in our mid fifties and what if she just wanted to get her brains banged out, to realize a fantasy by taking a break from reality, just for once? Human sexuality is deep, not fully understood and complicated. Now, I hate what she did, it’s cut me up worse than anything in all our years together but I’ve made my decision to work it through with her. She cheated but in a shameful and not easily repeatable way which belies all sorts of insecurities. I am prepared to walk if I have to but I’ll hear her out before I trash 20 years of marriage.

Shipney,

I have a daughter who so many times, had to learn the hard way. We’d plead with her, sharing the wisdom we’d accumulated over many decades, but "she knew better". And, so many times, experienced the consequences of ignoring our wisdom. Don’t be my daughter.

Yes, we hear you loud and clear you want to R. The kinds folks here will help you do that, but ignore the collective wisdom here at your peril. Short of a written timeline and a subsequent polygraph, you will not have the full truth. As Bigger said, without the full truth, your reconciliation will be a sham.

If it’s true your W had a "mental break", then she also needs the services of a psychiatrist ASAP. But let the professionals determine if she in fact had a break from reality. You nor I are qualified to make that determination.

We actually do have your interests in mind.

We’re in our mid fifties and what if she just wanted to get her brains banged out, to realize a fantasy by taking a break from reality, just for once?

Problem is what she did is highly addictive and it's never just once. You have to get the truth first, and then she needs to get to how she could have crossed this boundary. Don't minimize or excuse this or it's guaranteed to happen again. If she is willing to make this right she has to write a timeline and give you all the evidence, any thing less is wasting your time and emotional well being.

Now, I hate what she did, it’s cut me up worse than anything in all our years together but I’ve made my decision to work it through with her. She cheated but in a shameful and not easily repeatable way which belies all sorts of insecurities. I am prepared to walk if I have to but I’ll hear her out before I trash 20 years of marriage.

BH who is trying to work it out, I get it man. I’ll make a few suggestions.
1) 99.99% chance that you don’t have the full story. It just is how this cursed story plays out. Her story is implausible and cheaters lie. It’s that simple.

2) It’s entirely ok to not immediately walk and abandon 20 years of marriage, many of us make that choice. I’d just recommend that you reframe your decision from "I’m going to work it through" to something like "I’m not going to immediately divorce her but give her a chance to win me back, and I’ll re-evaluate regularly". You can’t save her from herself in this. Don’t commit to anything right now, you are in no state to do it, and you won’t be for a long time.

I have benefitted so very much from this community in my infidelity journey. I hope you do as well, best wishes, so sorry for your pain.

I am so sorry you are facing this betrayal. Marital treason is the worse.

am working on keeping a level head even in this trauma.

Good. Eat healthy, hydrate, exercise, read, get therapy, confide in trusted family and/or friends, and keep posting here. I hope you are open to the common refrain that the probability is very high that there is much more that you need to know. Dont end your discovery efforts and keep digging and seriously consider a polygraph. You need a baseline of truth from which to work. This "sudden" left turn by your WW to hire a sex worker out of the blue stretches credulity to say the least. Regardless, betrayal was enacted at the deepest level.

I caution you on the rationalizing front, i.e., "Human sexuality is deep, not fully understood and complicated." This has been voiced in many ways and can be a form of minimizing to try and lessen the impact/trauma. Whats not all that deep and complicated are integrity, character, committtment and loyalty. The question is, why did she abandon these and in so doing abandon you?

To this:

I am prepared to walk if I have to but I’ll hear her out before I trash 20 years of marriage.

Gently but firmly Brother, you have trashed nothing, nor will you if you decide to "walk" as you put it. The only one who trashed your marriage is your WW.

Step up your self care significantly. Id also encourage you to keep some distance from her for a while. A modified 180 if you will. Resist the urge to speed efforts to "fix it". This is all on her.

Appreciate you sharing your experience. As I said, keep posting here.

ETA:

Please abandon this mindset:

on the other I see a neglected menopausal woman who has done an out of character thing to satisfy a sexual need.

I consider this gaslighting yourself likely due to the truth hurting too much.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:31 PM, Friday, November 24th]

Shipney,
Listen to what most everyone is telling you. There is virtually no chance that you’ve got the whole or accurate story here. You haven’t mentioned that you’ve done any investigation and independent confirmation of her story. In a rush to R, it seems you’ve accepted her story as gospel and are actually not interested in any other narrative that might make you have to consider another course. This is almost always a recipe for disaster and serious future pain for you. Do your homework and know what you’re forgiving and who you are really reconciling with.

Shipney:

Thanks for your update. In working through the pain of her infidelity, keep your head up and make you a priority. Always value yourself. Exercise, eat healthy, and get stronger. I agree with Bigger and others that you need the truth. The skepticism of your WW’s version comes from hard earned experience with WS lies and deceit. If your WW is remorseful she will be transparent and willing to answer any and all specific questions you have about the incident and prepare a timeline at a minimum. As always watch her actions and not her words. Is she willing to answer your questions ver and over again as you need reassurance. Are there discrepancies in her version. Give yourself time. You will be on an emotional roller coaster. Seek IC if you need.
Keep posting and read in the healing library and pinned threads. The goal is to get out of infidelity, whatever you decide to do, R or D. You will receive good support. Good luck.

I understand that you wish to "hear her out" before you trash your marriage. However, it would be game over for me if it was a question of wanting to get her brains banged out of her mind to fulfil a fantasy. If that were the case, she should have told you before and the two of you should have agreed it if it was something you "understood". This is bad behaviour at the very least. In any case I would love to hear what she has to say when you "hear her out". Good luck but this would not make it past the first post here with me. Just my tuppence.