SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This must be very hard for you and you did such a great job holding things together over the holidays so as to allow your children to enjoy the festivities and the birthday as they should. That must have been hard knowing what was going on and how badly your WW behaved.

This thread is unbelievably helpful for those dealing with similar situations. The advice has been so helpful.

I wld say one thing. Work on yourself. Talk to close friends. See a good therapist if you can. I found reading some of the benchmark historic posts here (spaceghost007, walloped, ohforanewme really helped etc). These may help you process what you are going through and give you a framework. Because patterns do seem to emerge and repeat. It helps you get out of the "this time it’s different" mentality. Doing all of this helped me.

On divorce in the U.K. You shd seek out solicitors that specialise in family law. Interview 2 or 3. Most give initial free consultations. Get a sense as to the process and what to expect. Come prepared with a list of Qs and your assets and incomes. What to do will depend on your level of wealth. Divorce can be very expensive in the U.K., esp if contested. 2 sets of solicitors and barristers are involved if the case cannot be settled. The framework is typically to attempt to mediate at first, then a first hearing in front of a judge, financial dispute resolution where the real work gets done, again in front of a judge and if agreement is still not reached, a full trial in front of a judge. Most cases will settle privately prior to the trial.

Divorce is no fault and no material reason now needs to be to petition for D. Settlements are often favourable to the financially weaker party. Judges will typically not want to get involved in custody arrangements for the kids unless they are at real risk of harm. They tend to award joint custody and stay out of this unless called to resolve a dispute. You need to think about things like will maintenance be granted and if so, for how long. Lifetime settlements have been given in the past to the weaker party although they are becoming less common. Assets are typically split 50/50 and doing such may require your main residence to be sold. Judges always prioritise the "needs" (often = "wants") of the weaker party and the children. A clean break is always preferable if the level of assets permits. The thing to avoid at all costs is capitalisation where the present value of future maintenance payments is awarded to the recipient at a very unfavourable discount rate (the Duxbury tables) for the payor. Mediation is preferable if your assets and incomes are evenly split or if the case is not too complex. And don’t waste take and money legally arguing over things that are trivial to a judge. Like who did what to whom or who shd get the expresso machine. The lawyers are a running money bin charging by the hour. It’s easy to forget this in the height of one’s emotion.

Hello again everyone. Apologies for the radio silence for a bit, it's a whirlwind isn't it.

So I found messages from her to the AP on Xmas morning saying how much they loved each other, and even photos of my kids being sent opening their presents. For all the physical things that have happened, that has hurt me the most inside and I've struggled to cope with that the most. Just an absolute disregard for me on such a big day.

Just after Xmas came the first proper show of willing from her and huge apologies blah blah blah. I wanted to reconcile and thought we were but looking back it's just me pushing it.

Fast forward to this weekend and she was out and I saw email receipts of a taxi to his address. She did actually come home but the intent was there even if she didn't actually go through with it

Proves they are still in contact as well.

I'm really struggling mentally with the next step of just leaving, as I feel I'm the one letting my kids down.

Financially this will be a shit storm as we are not big earners. There's no way the house can be kept but she is saying she doesn't want to leave the home.

I'm very lost

I’m glad you came back, and I’m so sorry to hear the update.

Friend, you can’t control her. She is a human adult separate from you and she will do as she pleases. She has chosen destruction and betrayal, even in the light of day. It’s disgusting and abusive to you and your children, but you can’t stop her.

That leaves you with three options:

1) accept whatever she does and preserve the marriage at all costs, known as the "pick me dance" around here

2) detach from her, let her know you will not accept this betrayal, but if she starts to turn things around you keep an option open for R

3) choose to divorce.

I strongly advise against option 1, it will corrode your soul and self respect.

In the short term, options 2 and 3 can look a lot alike. Get in IC. Don’t give any thought to a relationship with her, just take care of yourself and your children. As much as your mind will let you, start envisioning what a life could look like now that she has abandoned you. Pay no mind to her delusions of keeping the house and other trappings of retaining your current life. You need to be the strong one. Face as much reality as your mind will let you and take steps in a good direction, for you and your children.

Edit to add: you are in no way letting the children down if you choose to divorce. A home stained with active infidelity is no place to raise children, they would suffer from that. Your wife has destroyed their stable lives, that is all on her. You making the best choice you can given the circumstances is in no way letting them down.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:37 PM, Sunday, February 4th]

Brlwtr

I think that if you go back to my first post you might be starting to realize the stark truth in it: You can’t control what your wife does, but you can control what you do.
This is what I suggested you tell her:

"Wife. I love you and would be willing to do a lot to save our marriage. However I have come to the realization that losing you is NOT the worst outcome. What is immensely worse is SHARING you with another man. The minute you decided to have an affair with another man is the minute where I – at best – was sharing you. I do NOT share my wife.
Therefore, I am absolving you of all expectations I might have to you as my wife.
I know you are still in communications with OM. You are totally free to do so. You can be with him, date him, move in with him, go to the pub with him… Whatever you want. Only NOT AS MY WIFE.
Terminating or relationship and marriage is complex but basically falls into two processes. There is the emotional and the legal. On the legal aspect there are known procedures in place that ensure we are both treated fairly. We need to initiate that process soon to ensure you have the freedom you need to carry on with OM, and to limit our legal commitments to each other since the marriage is ending. I will have a professional handle this from my end, and do not want to discuss it in detail with you.
On the emotional side I need to accept the reality of you having consciously decided to commit to infidelity and knowingly wreck our marriage and family. Our future relationship needs to be as good coparents, but I am starting the process of emotionally detaching from you as much as I can. I have no interest in being friends or in sharing any of your "joy" as you work on your relationship with OM.
For the next days or weeks, we will need to cohabit. I ask – as a favor – that you do NOT have OM in this house and that you be discreet when talking to him or going to him in my presence. But it’s your call – you can be as considerate or as tactless as you decide. But the reality is that people that end marriages also stop living in the same place, so we need to face the future on a basis of reality.
As I said in the beginning: I love you and would be willing to do a lot to save our marriage, but I won’t share you. I am getting out of infidelity. For a very limited time you can let me know you want this marriage but realize that I have been thinking about what’s going on and with every hour and every day I am more content with my decision to get out of infidelity. You would need to let me know in a very clear and unequivocal way and be willing to be totally accountable for me to stop my process of ending our marriage."

Well… her ACTIONS are telling you what she wants.
Now it’s all up to you to decide if you want to remain in infidelity or not.
It’s also her decision and YOUR call if she wants to follow you out of infidelity.

That she wants to keep the house but can’t afford it… not your issue.
A solicitor will suggest a fair division of assets and debts, and once the papers are signed she can do whatever she wants – irrespective of if you are concerned about her finances.

Hello again everyone. Apologies for the radio silence for a bit, it's a whirlwind isn't it.

So I found messages from her to the AP on Xmas morning saying how much they loved each other, and even photos of my kids being sent opening their presents. For all the physical things that have happened, that has hurt me the most inside and I've struggled to cope with that the most. Just an absolute disregard for me on such a big day.

Just after Xmas came the first proper show of willing from her and huge apologies blah blah blah. I wanted to reconcile and thought we were but looking back it's just me pushing it.

Fast forward to this weekend and she was out and I saw email receipts of a taxi to his address. She did actually come home but the intent was there even if she didn't actually go through with it

Proves they are still in contact as well.

I'm really struggling mentally with the next step of just leaving, as I feel I'm the one letting my kids down.

Financially this will be a shit storm as we are not big earners. There's no way the house can be kept but she is saying she doesn't want to leave the home.

I'm very lost

God, what a mess.

Listen, she is now so toxic, shes radioactive. That bit about sending him pics of your children on Christmas morning made me gag. Its absolutely despicable and she is sh*tting all over you, the marriage and the family.

I know its killing you but the time for half measures is over. Please, for the love of god, go to a solicitor and start the process of separation and divorce. There is nothing left there for you imo. It will suck big time for a while but you can and will make it through.

The hardest part for me was to really accept the reality of what happened without my mind trying to find some justification for it that makes it not as bad.

Fast forward to this weekend and she was out and I saw email receipts of a taxi to his address. She did actually come home but the intent was there even if she didn't actually go through with it

This makes my heart ache for you as a fellow BH. They lie. So very much. Directly to our face even when they see the pain they are causing. It is extremely low probability that nothing happened no matter what she says. You owe it to yourself to not ignore the facts just because of the horrific truth. You will survive it even though it seems impossible. What you can’t survive is continuing to sustain mortally wounding behavior for a long time. I wish you all the best in stabilizing and then removing yourself from this. If she wants, she can follow you out. But you can go deeper in to save her. Especially when she is running away from you…

I’m so sorry.

Listen to everyone. They really are right 99% of the time.

I just wanted to add that there is a 0% chance she is going to stay in the house.

None of you are.

She met him there, had sex in the house and he worked on the house.

That house belongs to him.

You are in shock and don’t want to lose your family which is understandable.

But let’s say she was 100% remorseful and trying to work on things. Your feelings would eventually change to resentment.

You can’t heal there. You would always trigger there.

Secretly she will always think about him for as long as she lives there.

No matter what you need to get out of that house.

Finances come first but getting out of there needs to be a top priority.

No contact is the absolute bare minimum you should expect to even consider reconciliation.

If she won't give you that, then she's giving you nothing.

The thing is, the normal, professional response for a person who has suffered from a traumatic event is to remove them from the place the trauma occurred. Infidelity, betrayal, cheating is a traumatic, life shattering event. So much so it can cause PTSD (or PiSD). Cheating inflicts deep emotional wounds because we believed the perpetrator of the trauma cared for us and loved us.

You cannot recover and heal from her infidelity if 1. you remain in the location/place the trauma happened and 2. you live with your betrayer. Staying with her is severely hindering you ability to recover from her cheating and lying. The sooner you separate, the better.

Hello again everyone. Apologies for the radio silence for a bit, it's a whirlwind isn't it.

So I found messages from her to the AP on Xmas morning saying how much they loved each other, and even photos of my kids being sent opening their presents. For all the physical things that have happened, that has hurt me the most inside and I've struggled to cope with that the most. Just an absolute disregard for me on such a big day.

Just after Xmas came the first proper show of willing from her and huge apologies blah blah blah. I wanted to reconcile and thought we were but looking back it's just me pushing it.

Fast forward to this weekend and she was out and I saw email receipts of a taxi to his address. She did actually come home but the intent was there even if she didn't actually go through with it

Proves they are still in contact as well.

I'm really struggling mentally with the next step of just leaving, as I feel I'm the one letting my kids down.

Financially this will be a shit storm as we are not big earners. There's no way the house can be kept but she is saying she doesn't want to leave the home.

I'm very lost

I am sorry you are in this position again. I had a false reconciliation with my ex wwbf and it’s hard to come back from having hope.

The turning point for me in moving forward was a moment that I realised there was no way we could ever go back to the way things were. I had been happy with him, had love, fun, trust, 14 years of happy memories; but those things were gone and could not come back because of what he had done. So if you can’t go back, the only way is forward, forward through the pain to the other side. And I am on the other side of that pain now. When you look back now, do you realise that things can’t go back to what they were now?

One bit of advice I got which has been brilliant for me was "always remember the bad times". We often view our partners through rose-tinted glasses, but as soon as I started to remember something I’d miss, I tried to switch my thoughts to something I disliked about him, his behaviour when he drank for example. Try that with your wife, it may help.

You'll get 2 types of advice on SI.

Some people tell you to take specific actions to D or R. Some will claim you'll experience certain consequences from one course of action or another. Other people seem to want to help you figure out what's best for you.

My advice is to rely more on the advice aimed at helping you figure out what is best for you.

*****

Bigger's advice - to tell your W that you want to stay M, but that means dumping the ap - is excellent. If you're not ready to act on it, in your own way (I used fewer words, for example, but my W dumped her ap within 75 minutes of revealing her A), look inside and figure out what is keeping you from acting.

If fear is keeping you from acting, I'd recommend doing the 'simplified 180'. If you can't do that, my reco is to find a good IC. If you're waiting from something from your W, figure out what that is and how long you're willing to wait.

The people who come out of infidelity most successfully are the ones who take responsibility for their own lives. You may be wrong about what you need in order to act or what you're looking for from your WS, but if you monitor yourself and adjust to what you think is really happening in your life - as opposed to what you hope or fear is happening - you'll come out OK.

*****

Think about your requirements for R. MY reco is to include NC - no messages of any kind, no approaching the POSOM in any way, reporting any attempt by POSOM to break NC to you and deciding together how to respond.

Once you have your list of requirements, my reco is to talk with your W. If she agrees, great - R starts. If she won't agree, great - D starts.

******

Keep asking for what you want. If the ratio of yes to no is high enough, great - R continues. If the ratio is low enough to keep you unhappy, great - R stops, and D starts.

If you can't ask, my reco is to find a good IC. If you ask and get too many 'noes' but you can't start D, my reco is the simplified 180.

*****

You're 3 months out. You've got plenty of reasons for acting now. You may have reasons for delay now that you haven't shared, which is OK. But take control of your life. Make the decisions you think are best, but know why you're making your choices, and don't lie to yourself.

You can survive and thrive after infidelity, if you live your life mindfully.

Where you are now - wanting R but knowing your W looks like a lousy candidate for R may be the worst your life will get. It'll stay at this low point until you know which way to move, and you probably need more time to know that.

But have faith in yourself to heal. Have faith in yourself to see the best course of action for you. Have faith in yourself to have the courage and strength you need to make the hard choices.

*****

I committed to R 90 days after d-day, because I wanted R, and my W looked like a great candidate for R. But I still had to go through months of uncertainty. At 2 years, I had mostly healed. Around 42-48 months out I was reconciled - but I didn't realize that for at least another year .

Others had much different timelines. Some took 5 or more years to declare success in R or to find victory in D.

So you know enough to start D now, but none of us knows the future. If you're not ready, so be it. Be true to yourself, but be true mindfully.

Bumped by request

Hi guys

I'm sorry I haven't updated for a while. Life comes at you fast.

Things got better, then worse, then better again.

We started getting a long again. No intimacy at all yet, but I'm not bothered, I'm not ready.

Coming up to a year soon and I have found out they are still in contact.

Earlier this year still meeting up, and more recently still messaging. I'm just existing again. Day by day.

Still navigating all this shit. Or trying to.

During the initial shock and depression, I made some bad financial decisions, wasn't thinking straight, so I'm pretty bad position right now. Credit cards up to my eyes.

Had to downscale the car last week.... My replacement ones engine blew up on the drive home.... Carless now.

Struggling at work with all that's going on. Tough times. But it makes you stronger, that's what I keep telling myself.

Wow, thanks for the update but please get ahead of this. She is not working with you but against you. Don’t let her take you down with her.
You need to detach and hard 180.

It's divorce time.

You wrote the update but the hard facts are:

You aren't sleeping with your own wife (for a year).

She is still in her affair.

Either alone would be enough for divorce. Both. Really, do you want to live like this?

Respectfully, tough times do not necessarily make you stronger, especially when you let fear prevent you from taking action that you know needs to be taken.

What does make you stronger is actually making one small move towards respecting yourself. The on more step. Then another. Each subsequent step then becomes a bit easier not because of the choices themselves, but because of the strength you build in yourself for doing what must be done...even when you don't want to.

In the meantime, nothing has changed because you have changed nothing...at least, nothing of significance.

I hope one day soon you get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I have not commented on this thread before but your recent post compelled me to do so. At the stage you are at now, you have had false-R for about a year. I did too. I too did not want to "lose" my WH and I played the pick me dance and the walking on eggshells dance and just about any dance you could come up with for an embarassingly long time. I did not take the advice of people on here and continued thinking I could somehow control the outcome of my marriage. I could not. You can't either, because of course you can only control you.

I wanted to quickly address the issue of your children. IMO you are not doing them any favors by keeping them in this toxic environment. I know - I was a child about your kids ages in a similar environment. When I was roughly 7-9 my mom had an A with married man, got pregnant, had the baby, the married man divorced and married my mom - they are still married now. Their A started when I was around 7 and my parents were still married when the A began (they divorced 2 years later) - my mom and her AP married when I was 13...so I got to live though 2 years of infidelity in the house. Two years was more than enough - the tension was palpable and despite my parents best efforts to take their issues away from us, it was stressful and anxiety ridden. The BEST thing they did for us, even thought they too were both working class and their divorce brought our standard of living down, was to SEPARATE and END that toxic/phony post infidelity environment. You are not doing your kids any favors by staying together - forget the money - they need mental and emotional stability more. The scenes you describe are far from that. Trust me, I lived it in their shoes and it is HORRIBLE.

I am going to add one final comment here about "staying for the kids" that has angered people in the past - this is my person opinion not in my position as a guide - but I think it is worth considering. Only you know if this applies to you. I feel like some BS use the "I must stay with this disrespectful WS who treats me horribly because it's better for the kids to have us together as a family unit" mantra so they can excuse the horrible behavior they are willing to accept. I have said it before and I will say it again - attempting R - heck even staying in the same house with a WS after an A is discovered is all about the BS. The BS does this because they want to - it is a choice. So, when a BS chooses to stay with a WS like yours (and like mine was) who constantly disrespects them, lies, manipulates, treats them poorly, and undermines their personal well being, there is a motive for doing so and it's likely not just the kids. That other motive - that's what you need to look at.

My WH with a married co-worker was similar to your WS's A - I love yous, gross sexual pics, sexting galore, fantasy land about being together, making up all kinds of reasons why I was the problem, blah blah blah. The A went on for about 4-5 months before I discovered it. Then, WH lied and said it was over but took it underground (and did a better job than your WS in hiding it). After over a year of false-R and continued lies about contact between my WH and the AP I decided to leave and filed for D and started making a financial plan to leave. Unfortunately for me COVID lockdown happened during that time putting off my leaving by almost a year so we were divorced but living in the same house still - staying in different rooms but the house was small - and life was very small then to as there was no where to go to aside from long walks alone.

So we started talking in our little living room without the pressure of an "us" anymore. And during that time my WH decided to go to IC to figure out why he had behaved the way he did and 4 years later he still goes albeit less frequently. I did move away after lockdown ended and I had my job issues sorted out. My WH and I now date occasionally - but I am FREE of infidelity and have my life back.

But what happened with all the love between AP and by WH you ask? AP and the OBS divorced the year after we did. They were free to be together - their perfect love could move forward now, undisturbed by the likes of me and the OBS. Yet...it did not. In fact, that love as it turned out, was just a massive pile of excrement covered in chocolate. AP and my WH still work together, but WH has moved his schedule so he is "opposite" to her and sees her for about 10 minutes once a week I'm told, and wishes he didn't.

See what has happened here? When I stopped trying to control my WH's behavior and decided to control my own life, my WH realized his ploys to manipulate me weren't going to work anymore. My focus became me. And solely me. And when that happened, no matter what happened (or happens) between WH and me, I win. You can too. You need to put one foot in front of the other and walk yourself right out of infidelity-limbo instead of talking about it and doing it kinda sorta maybe. That first REAL step is the hardest - it does get easier, I promise!

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:21 PM, Wednesday, August 14th]

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

I really like that quote, and think it applies to so much in life.
Like... If I’m hungry I can decide to go check the fridge and find something to eat. If I don’t find something I want I can decide to make a quick snack out of old cheese and stale bread or porridge or get some cereal. Might make a meal of stuff I normally don’t eat and even something I really don’t like. Or I could order in something or go to the store. I can take actions that alleviate my hunger. Heck... I can even decide to remain hungry because I know it won’t kill me if I EVENTUALLY get off my ass and head for the store. I would at least have a plan on how to get out of hunger...
I am hungry simply because of reasons of myself alone...

Friend – it sounds like you are glued to the couch waiting to die from starvation...

You are miserable because of reason of yourself alone. You are there because I think you fear your options.

Once again – read the plot I suggested twice so far. Tell your wife she’s free to be with OM, but not as your wife.

That’s not the same as kicking her out, filing right away and all that... But it’s at least the infidelity equivalent of checking if you do have some oats for porridge and/or creating a list for what to get to prevent malnourishment and making everyone involved know you refuse to starve anymore.
It’s letting her know that you know she’s still in contact, but that you are fine with that because at least it sends you the message that the marriage is over. She has decided to have it that way with her actions. She can send you a new message, but then it’s totally on her to convince you about the affair being over, and YOUR decision on how to respond to that.

Frankly – based on the length of time and what you share – I would suggest you carry on with the process of divorce until you have a very clear picture of how it might end. Even if that means possibly selling the house if you were to commit to D. I think having that picture allows you to envision your two options: Sharing the home with a distant wife pining for OM, or starting life afresh with the ability to not be in infidelity.

Will not remaining married create a new situation? Yes – and chances are it won’t be easier per se. Just like I might eat that stale and moldy sandwich just to tide me over. There will be financial consequences, but those consequences are ONLY how they impact YOU. For all you know OM can be moved in ten minutes after you leave. But... it’s not your concern per se. All you should focus on is YOU and how you will be the best coparent to your kids.
Please friend – be totally aware that the ONLY consequence of inaction will be ongoing misery. As the old Greeks so wisely said:

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Coming up to a year soon and I have found out they are still in contact.

If you change nothing, nothing changes. Certainly your cake eating WW seems content to keep things the way they are, no matter the damage to you and your children.

During the initial shock and depression, I made some bad financial decisions, wasn't thinking straight, so I'm pretty bad position right now. Credit cards up to my eyes.

I don’t know if it’s the same in the UK, but in the States debt gets divided in divorce, same as assets. I’d file and tell her she’s going to need a job to meet her responsibilities.