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Last night was my WH first proper night out to bars since dday in January 2020.
He wasn’t going to go then last minute decided he was. I put on a brave face, said have a good night. He was trying to decide where to park before he left. I text him an hour later asking if he managed to get parked. It just that contact when out would help with reassurance, I didn’t hear anything back at all. He got home about 4 hours later.

I just wanted a bit of reassurance back from him without telling him to do it. The trust just isn’t there, I’m not sure it will ever be.

I just had a chat with him and he said sorry I didn’t have any signal in the bars. They walked from one end of town to another at some point he would have had signal. Am I wanting too much?

I wouldn't think you're asking for much, no.

This ought to be easy to verify. Go there yourself with your phone, and see if you have signal. Usually urban areas have better phone service.

I feel you. My dday was September 2020. Even if on certain aspects my WW isn't putting enough effort in the R, she always tells me where she is, when she leaves, when she arrives, and would never leave me in the dark for an hour. I don't have to ask, I believe she's trying to keep me reassured...

Thanks everyone

I’m feeling even worse now so he said one friend was getting the train back but no trains were running as wh looked whilst out (nothing in search history). He dropped another friend to the ferry for the 10.30 crossing. He didn’t get home until 11.05 ( it’s a 5-10 min drive when busy), my guard is now up

You’re not asking for too much, I wouldn’t be happy with WH disappearing without signal for hours even now, 6 years later. Not for "going out with friends" reasons in any case.

We still have our location services on and WH got into a habit to keep in touch and check in when he goes out for work events. In our case WH lied during the affair, for the only outside of working hours meet up with ow, that he’s going out with his team so even now this is my biggest trigger and he knows it.

Early days post dday we spoke about what I expected when he HAD to attend the Christmas team evening meal celebrations, that first year: I wanted proof he is where he said he was and location services on. No missed calls, no ignoring texts. No excuses for loss of signal, that would have thrown me into a full on meltdown.

At the time he took a team picture and sent it to me. He texted several times himself and called once to see if I was ok.

I’ve noticed this continued to happen and still does even though I don’t ask for it and haven’t done so in years. Each time he’s out with work he’ll make an excuse to take a team picture and send it to me, he also texts a couple of times. It became a habit, deep down we both know what significance it has but it feels normal to do so these days. It’s not as intense as it was in the early days, it’s just normal for us to still check in even on a night out.

Even without the additional details you added (the long drive home even though it should have taken 5 min) I wouldn’t be happy with it, something isn’t right. It may not be cheating (maybe he’s a secret smoker/drinker?), it does feels like he’s hiding something.

Are you two not sharing location? Could you not check he was where he said he was at any point?

We do share location. I fell asleep last night from 10.15-11.05, he woke me when he come in. He said this morning he got home around 10.50 but I know he came in later as I heard he key in the lock and him come in. I will raise this later once the kids are down. He paid for escorts when working away, he doesn’t even work away now, he changed jobs after and did/said all the right things, so I’m worried he had a stop off on his way home

I’ve just read a couple of your old threads, I’m not sure he "did everything right" as you put it. What has changed since last time? Is he still avoiding affair talks? Is he in any form of counselling? Has he been working hard on understanding why he did what he did?

Saying "I won’t do it again" and then refusing to face the consequences (including your triggers and need for reassurance), lacking empathy and playing video games all night whilst your wife is picking up the heavy load isn’t what true reconciliation looks like. Is he still playing games 5-6 nights a week till 2am?

He’s being shady. And lying. And you know it.

Clearly he’s learned nothing.

Here is where you have to decide if you want to continue to be the marriage police.

I’m not saying you have to D him, but you have to live with the REAL him and not continue to be hopeful he values honestly and monogamy the way you do.

Game changer in my opinion.

Please don’t think talking to him will change him. He’s already shown you EXACTLY who he is.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:02 PM, Friday, December 29th]

I also read your posts. Unless there was a monumental shift,he didn't do much to become a safe partner.

Why did you pretend to be ok about him bar hopping with buddies?

He shouldn't have gone. I recently heard, from female bartenders, that no woman should ever be ok with their husband in a bar,with buddies. That the atmosphere is one of flirtation, hook ups,etc.

If the only kind of friends he has, are the bar hopping kind,then he needs new friends.

Please don't be fooled by false transparency. Many bs believe their ws because they can look at their phone,and see apps,calls,texts,search history, and location. None of that means anything. Burner phones are super cheap,and it's easy enough to leave a phone where they say they are,and go off wherever they want.

My H doesn’t go anywhere without me unless it’s work related and he keeps his phone connected and I’m muted so I can hear (he has earphones around his neck) but no one can hear me. Sorry bud but this is one of the consequences of your actions. Going out to a bar and drinking would be an absolute no way for me. If his story isn’t matching up with facts that can be corroborated I would investigate more. It seems you feel like he isn’t being honest and I would listen to that although it becomes so hard to discern between fear and intuition, I’m still working on that 6 years later.

What has be done to proactively become a safe partner?

I hate opaque messages…
If you had a need (and I get that…) for him to update you then make that need clear to him. Don’t expect him to be a mind-reader or sense the room so that he knows what to do. ASK or DEMAND.
Especially as you think he might have autism and is emotionally unsupportive. YOU NEED TO LET HIM KNOW WHAT YOU NEED and not expect him to automatically know it.

Look – with his past and since you state you two are in reconciliation – it would be 100% healthy and correct for you to have expressed your concerns BEFORE he left and for him to suggest and accept some actions to alleviate your fear.
It’s relatively simple: He could have had location services on his phone active, he could have phoned you on the hour, he could have sent you an occasional picture… Yes – all indicators of lack-of-trust, but we all know that trust needs to be reestablished – re-earned. This is the FIRST time out – there is no trust re-earned. If he goes out 20x and you don’t have reason to doubt him then and only then you might be fine with the no-reply situation.

I guess you could go check the service at all those bars. Who knows – if he frequents basement bars in some remote outskirt of civilization then maybe there is no service… I doubt it though… You could go time the routes and check the ferry-schedule… I don’t think that will get you anything. I think your resolution will be found in discussing this with your husband, explain your need for assurance and what damage he does with actions like those when he went out.

Honestly, I'd be extremely upset.

What is a married man doing going out to bars?

My WH pretty much never went to bars before the A, maybe to grab a burger/beer after his martial arts workouts.

After the A, he didn't go anywhere except with family or a couple of guys I trusted. He'd go to their house to watch a game, go out and grab a cup of coffee with a couple of his buddies (his best friend is my cousin's husband).

Even on the job he stopped socializing 95% of the time. After a few years, he'd go out if it was only men and have dinner and back to his hotel room.

IMO married men do not belong in bars without their wives.

You should not have to ask. He should be doing the work to figure out how to earn your trust back and make you feel safe.

He does not need to be going to bars.

If he is out, the very least he can do is check in with you. That is on him not you.

Dday was 3 YEARS ago. Not 3 months ago. If he had been doing the work,and if he was understanding that trust needs to be rebuilt, you shouldn't have had to tell him to stay in touch. I think this notion that a BS must always tell the WS how they are expected to behave,while away from them,Flys against the fact that this is part of his work..not yours. You are not his mother.

If it was his first time out since dday, he had to know this was a huge deal,and he needed to come up with ways to make you feel more at ease. He didn't do that. So..now what?

I went back and viewed some of your previous posts about your WH and this sounds very familiar to my experience with my fWH, for whom every day seems not to carry over any recollection of agreements made the day before.

A teacher I met once has 3 children on the spectrum. Even with 3 special needs children, she felt she had to divorce her autistic WH. I didn't understand how he could have been a serial cheat, because I'd been taught that one of the most endearing qualities of autistic persons is their LOYALTY - and to me, no matter what, emotionless infidelity with a paid sex worker blows MY concept of LOYALTY Right To Hell! I mean, he took a vow of fidelity, right? Mine told me he "didn't even think about the ring on his finger" and I could not fathom that. Cheating meant nothing to him and therefore shouldn't mean anything to me, I suppose.

Anyway this teacher explained her WH also had repeatedly stepped out of their marriage. She eventually realized he'd never "generalized" any of the MC advice they got after each D-Day. She explained this was part of his being autistic: everything tended to be learned in a situation-specific manner, with little ability to generalize. I saw evidence of that in my WH, too. You and I and most people would recall "lessons learned," but she told me it doesn't actually work like that.

While I agree with the others that by this time, your WH ought to understand your need for trust building,"thinking of the other's perspective" just hasn't been my experience. It's the same across the whole of our relationship; sometimes it's as simple as my asking him (for the 1,000th time) "Please don't interrupt me halfway through a sentence." He'll say "I'm sorry." Next day, same situation: he'll cut me off mid-sentence. Rinse and Repeat.

Your WH may have an innocent explanation for his long night disappearance, but unless you verify it independently, I'd consider it a big red flag. If he grew up in a macho drinking culture, that also makes "checking in" with you something he may resist being seen doing. (And who wants to play that role, in any case? Sometimes I think my WH wants me to play that Mean Mommy role. No thanks!)

Thank you everyone for all the advice.

To answer a few questions about previous posts.
Things changed dramatically. He stayed with his dad for a while as I needed space when he returned we were able to communicate well, he pulls his weight around the house. He now only games once a week, we have time together one evening. He was putting in the effort. That’s why I thought the evening out I would be ok with and he would check in.

Last night I didn’t need to say anything, once the kids were down. He poured us both a glass of wine and said that he wanted to apologise for last night. He said he should have checked in. He said that there really wasn’t any signal at the bars but he didn’t look at his phone all night either. The timings from bar to home, he said he dropped his friend off late at the boat crossing and it was just about to leave. He stopped at every traffic light and also had to get fuel. He showed me his bank transaction to show the payment. This makes me feel better. He said he should have text or called me. I made it very clear it hasn’t helped in anyway with building trust. It feels like a massive step back. I think we both need to communicate more. I refuse to mother him.

Well, that's all well and good, but if it were me, I would still want concrete proof of his explanation. So why not suggest that you two go down there and retrace his route; have him show you a dead phone signal all along the way. If he resists doing that with you for any reason, you have another red flag. I'd make it my business to go - even if I had to go alone. Your phone and his will or will not operate in the same places. I think this is critical. If he willingly agrees to a verification trip, and you can see he wasn't lying, that would be a real help for you both going forward.

I have had the most elaborate stories offered for my accepting things that looked suspicious to me, and only by chance I later learned my gut was trying to tell me something: lies were being fed to me. I get the fear you will face having to do this kind of investigation process, but please, he hasn't earned your trust 100%. Try this, together preferably.

And be prepared for further explanation if you do get signals. I had to go talk with our telephone provider's engineering department about exactly this kind of question, to ascertain where a strong signal in the house could have come from, when we are way far out in the country and my WH swore and denied he had any internet access. The engineering office confirmed my suspicions that they had not suddenly boosted their tower signal or anything. 3 years later, I walked in on him using his secret phone. Don't hesitate to pursue the truth.

Edit: try to run the route during the same general time (evening) as he was there. Because cell signals can sometimes vary from day to night. This is just to cover one more possible excuse for why you may find you get signal at noon where if you went at night, maybe it would be weaker...but I rather doubt it will be that large a swing. I'm just saying strange things can happen and my tech-savvy WH had all those kinds of explanations to snow me with, which is how I lost several more years to his hidden addiction(s).

[This message edited by Superesse at 3:48 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

I just want to add one thing to everything here: I don’t think that, 3 years out, you should still need to highlight what’s needed to your WH. Some things become part of your new marriage dynamics and that’s how it should be going forward.

Prior to dday if my WH had no signal, if he was out for a work dinner for example, he’d notice, go out to find signal and let me know. It is common courtesy in a marriage to make sure you’re somehow reachable, infidelity or not. What if one of the kids breaks a limb? What if you suddenly fall ill and need him?

Post dday there is absolutely no excuse such as no signal. If WH gets to a place and there is no signal he knows that it is a no no for me, I’d expect him to make some excuse and leave. Or at least contact me and offer to do that. To be clear this isn’t me being naive, I know he could cheat anyway by simply leaving his phone in a location with signal and be somewhere else. Or… his office is opposite a hotel if you know what I mean, I cannot ask for the hotel to be demolished so that WH cannot cheat.

But ensuring he is available and does not disappear without a trace, being mindful for possible triggers given our marriage history is a sign of growth. Some things change forever once infidelity is part of your marriage and whilst I don’t believe WH should be on some sort of a tight leash, I do expect him to show understanding that some situations simply don’t look the same when experienced post infidelity.

As I said above though I do think some growth is needed regardless of infidelity or not, I believe it’s common courtesy to ensure you’re reachable at all times once you’re a parent. At least that’s what I offer as a parent and that’s what I expect in return.