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When do you stop asking the same questions? I am caught between asking clarifying questions that he can’t really provide a satisfactory answer for and taking the win.

What I mean is this for example-

There was an event right before DDAY 1 when he did some crap like stay out late. It was the wee hours of Thanksgiving. I’m assuming it was to spend a holiday with her. But days prior he had been on a work trip and talk to her for hours. Then no contact for 10 days before Thanksgiving and then the lies and staying out with a friend.

I want to know if he was telling her that he was going to end it with me or what.

He says he broke up with her in the long conversation but then felt like he could still have sex with her occasionally and seeing her for Thanksgiving would keep her on a string.

I don’t know why I accepted that answer but I don’t. My husband says he doesn’t know what to do when he tells me the truth and I don’t believe him.

Why do I want or need more than that crappy answer?

He tells me that I’ll never understand it because he doesn’t understand why he did all the things knowing he never planned on leaving.

A part of me feels like I’m beating a dead horse and I should just take the win as he’s been working diligently on himself/us for 4 years now and nothing new.

Why do I get stuck with some details? Is this painshopping?

Very few words from my WW do I believe. There have been a few moments where she genuinely opened up and told me about something and I could tell she was telling the truth because I could see the pain in her face during the conversation. There have been 2 or 3 of those moments in the last 2 years and 10 months.

I want to know if he was telling her that he was going to end it with me or what.

It seems clear to me that the things you get hung up on always revolve around him admitting, saying, believing that he was or is going to leave you, proving that you are not lovable.

In my opinion, you are stuck in this loop because this is what you believe--you are unlovable and nobody would really want to be with you. This is what you most likely have always believed down deep, and there is nothing your WS can do to change this. We cannot love others if we do not love ourselves; our lack of worthiness makes us doubt, fear, hold back and push back. You need IC to show you that you are very lovable and valuable, regardless of other people's behaviors--whether you are M or not. You are precious and important because you are a human being with her own strengths, gifts, and uniqueness. We are all only that. And it IS enough to be worthy and valued, but we need to believe that in our souls if we want to buffer ourselves against the many messages in this world that will try to tell us different (to meet their own selfish and insecure needs, not because there is any truth).

When you believe in your fundamental value, you will not doubt his belief in it. Nor will his belief even matter as much. Because you will always have your love for yourself, and no one can take that away. I could not have recovered from infidelity without healing this fundamental part of myself.

The WS heals himself/herself. The BS heals himself/herself. And together they heal the M.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:17 PM, Sunday, January 7th]

Thanks so much Owningitnow but I have a hard time believing him because he lied in my face for 18+ months. And actually because he apparently had been feeling weak and like a failure for a while up until his midlife crisis.

It’s not because I feel unlovable or because I am now insecure…..it’s because I was being lied to and didn’t know it.

I’m one of those few who don’t blame themselves for why the affair happened but I blame myself for not being smart enough to see the signs. I was very blind faithy until I wasn’t. My father cheated. My husband didn’t until mid life crisis.

I’m sorry you are struggling. Maybe this will help you.

The answers don’t make sense b/c they are emotional decisions made by people who are choosing to lie and cheat. They NEED the ego boost the affair provides.

You are trying to make sense out of an illogical situation. I think that may be why you are struggling.

Case in point: my lying cheating H told the OW he was D me. Now I’m the last to find out that was part of the plan. One day it’s boom 💥- I’m having an affair and ten days later it’s ILYBNILWY and I want a D.

The six month roller coaster is he would want a D, then two days later change his mind (looking back the minute I started the 180 and distancing myself) he’d change his mind.

He was playing both of us b/c he was emotionally exhausted and could not decide what he wanted. Or he wanted both of us. Whatever it was, it was illogical.

And no amount of talking or explanation would ever make sense of it.

So I stopped beating myself senseless trying to get to an answer about it. I realized there was no answer or explanation that would satisfy me.

I hope this helps you.

For the first 6 months, I would "rabbit hole." I would need to understand all the details, as if I needed to reconstruct a "true" history of the entire span (3 years, in my case) of the affair. At the same time, I felt like I was going crazy because by nature, I am a person who is firmly committed to my own independence and not someone who has ever been paranoid or possessive.

By the end of month 8, I had:

--Reconstructed a timeline of the affair, cross-referencing it to events in the family
--compiled a list of every place (using credit card receipts) they went together
--Done extensive research via social media about the AP and her life.

I needed to do this, but there did come a day that started to let go. It's been gradual, and I am not at the end of the process yet. However, last month, I gathered all the emails, photos, and other 'pain porn' I had found, brought them to the park they used to meet at, and burned them. I made a ritual of it, as a way to honor what I was willing to let go of. Did it work? Mostly. Do I still sometimes struggle? Hell yes. But it is getting easier.

One thing that I started adopting (when ready) was this: I started prefacing my questions with this. I told him that "I don't think it will help me to know the answer, but you need to know what I think about. So here is something I obsess about." He often did answer, but I found it powerful to shift the focus away from some sort of idea that what he said would make it better to what really mattered—sharing with him the damage the affair left in my psyche.

Be forgiving of yourself. Betrayal is a powerful and deep trauma. You are healing, but not in a straight line.

I’m sorry you’re still hurting.

Unfortunately you will never know the nuanced moments of the affair. Whilst I’m confident that I know everything there is to know about my WH’s affair, factually that is, I am aware that when it comes to what was said and felt is pure interpretation of a moment in time and I’ll never know more than my own interpretation of the events.

I stopped caring what was said or done when I realised it is all manipulation and transactional. No doubt my WH did believe himself in love with ow and said and did all sorts of things, but it didn’t take long to realise that he was in love with a projection, he knew absolutely nothing about who she really was. In fact after obsessing for about two years over ow and finding out everything I could from all the available sources, it turns out that, should he have brought that relationship to the real world, it would have ended in weeks, she was in fact pretty much everything he hates (go figure).

I don’t know why exactly I stopped digging on these nuanced conversations details, I didn’t even care if he promised her to leave me or anything, it didn’t matter anymore, perhaps when I saw how full of bullshit they both were it became irrelevant.

I hope you find your answers soon.

I understand how upsetting it feels hearing your husband's seemingly incomplete answers to your questions.

Some folks claim brutal honesty is the correct approach. However, if one truly does not remember the details of any given conversation, why probe further?
I know that after a certain amount of time has passed, the details become blurred in our recall. What remains are vague impressions at the best of recalls.
I believe this.

Five years have passed from my d-day. The stupidities my husband and his OW have lived with are today for me, irrelevant. I feel pity at what my husband and his OW ended up with: a big fat nothing, (they lived together for three months after d-day). I feel pity. Can you imagine? But it did take five years for me to reach this stage.

I was totally blindsided, lived through hell, and not only survived, but also realized that what they said to one another, what conditional promises they made to one another mean nothing today.

It means nothing because they are no longer together. Nor will they ever be if I am to fully trust my husband's word. I remain vigilant.

Wishing you the best.

Howcthappen this is my problem also. Nothing to me is ever enough. When I am triggered I ask all kinds of questions and he then retracts some things he has told me previously. Which of course sparks an argument. He claims I am making things up in my head, where would I get those details. He will then state I thought we were past this... maybe he is but I am not. Now I stopped asking; why? Because it ends in a fight. I have no more strength for the fight... Its so hard to trust anyone let alone someone who betrayed you. No answer I feel will ever be sufficient... For me at least, I do not understand the betrayal because I would never even think to do that. So anything he tells me I believe is a lie even if its the truth.

What Luna 10 says is spot on. They say and do stuff in the "relationship" that are pure fantasy. My fWW, when she finally came out of limerence, realized that she was completely in-congruent with her AP. She had projected a fantasy on him, and he had projected a fantasy on her. When it was out in the open, she was embarrassed. Later, much of her statements to him were clearly manipulations. He did the same with her. There was never any intent to leave spouses, only the need to manipulate so they could keep the fantasy going. Remember, the whole thing is fantasy, what they said and promised is all play acting.

I also never blamed myself for the affair. I’m far from perfect but I was/am a good spouse and worthy of respect, value, and fidelity. I also blamed myself for trusting him and not seeing the signs sooner, or really ignoring some of them. I had to forgive myself for that and realize that I SHOULD have been safe, I deserved not to be combing through phone records or searching for answers. I should have been able to trust my husband. So if also was not my fault that I didn’t see it sooner- it’s still his fault for taking advantage of the blind trust. Have you done therapy for yourself? Not because you’re at fault, because you have been traumatized. You deserve to heal. My therapist has helped me tremendously. Reading Living and loving after betrayal and doing the exercises daily was a huge help as well. And restoring my faith. I wish you the best.

To some extent, I think that there is often something to the gut feeling a BS can have that something about the story does not make sense. For me, the part of the initial story that didn't make sense to me, turned out to not to be true. So yes, listen to your gut if your gut is screaming at you that it doesn't make sense.....

BUT.... make sure it doesn't make sense to you because it doesn't feel like something your spouse would do vs. it doesn't make sense to you because it isn't something YOU would do. You are not the same person - you did not and would not cheat. The things you would do are not the same as what he would do because you wouldn't cheat in the first place. Also remember that because you are not that person and their actions are so foreign to you because you would never do them, you will never TRULY understand. There will never be a day where he will tell the story and it will all click and make sense in your head because "ah yes, that makes sense, I can see why he did that - that was a logical thing to do." That wont happen because the affair logic is always garbage and there will never be a proper justification. Just like The1stWife said, you are trying to make sense out of an illogical situation.

I spent about a year following D-Day pushing and pushing at the story and re-asking the same questions because I was sure I would learn that he was actually in love with her and was planning to be with her. That was my fear so that's what I kept looking for. To me, I just couldn't imagine risking our marriage if I wasn't "in love" with the other person - because *I* can "sort of" understand the dumb affair logic better if they were actually "in love". I never found it. Ultimately when the story stayed consistent and kept matching up and I could see that he wasn't editing details to make himself look better or to protect me in other aspects of it all, I started to believe it.

Why do I want or need more than that crappy answer?

I can't answer this question for you any more than I can tell you whether your husband was or wasn't telling the truth about this. Why do you think he was telling her he was going to end it with you? Why does this one instance of staying out late?
Why do you think this would be the thing he would lie about if you believe the rest of the story. What does he say he was doing when he stayed out late that night? Importantly... what would change in your mind if you subsequently learned that he was, in fact, with her?