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I hear alot about WS needing to do the work ion. Do you really think it is needed for them, not to do it again? I feel like my husband’s affair was a perfect storm of him having a middle life crisis and a young and pretty girl being interested in him. Normally his firm is all male, so that was unusual and the fall out has been huge for him never to do it again

Personally as a WS I do, there has to be a reason why he did what he did .... we all get (hopefully) to that mid way point at some point and not everyone would have an affair.

Nobody would have thought I'd have done what I had done but here we are, everyones world upside down and now both BS and I struggling with our own mental health.

I have done a lot of digging, found lots of issues within that I never would have considered if it not for all of this horrific mess I bought to our lives

Well… Define the work…
This is the same husband as is still working with the OW, who still has occasional friendly contact with OW, who moved in with her, who managed to keep that a secret to his work-companions, who has had no career connected consequences for his affair, who goes to MC where you are blamed for his "crisis" and the infidelity and for problems in reconciling…

Life-crisis happen at several major junctions in life. For men, it’s not only when we find the first gray hair or notice the growing bald-spot or use one notch less on the belt… We can experience crisis when finishing college and not having a clue what to do, when rejected by the girlfriend we thought was the "one", when not getting a job, being fired, refused a promotion, being told "I’m pregnant", not seeing a way to pay all the bills….
Life is tough, and it’s a constant row of crisis that we can mitigate and manage by being stable in what we can control. Your husband is bound to experience more crisis… with the gender-ratio in general and the ever increasing trend to equality his mostly-male environment is destined towards more female coworkers.
What will his reaction be when a young woman is hired into his team? What about if someone is promoted ahead of him, causing a crisis of validation? Or what happens if HE is promoted, creating a condition where he feels so powerful he can get away with anything – validated by having his pick of the females?

Yes – he needs to do the work. He needs to get to why he though he was allowed the affair, why he thought his family (the thing ANY man or woman should think is the most precious part of their lives) wasn’t worth staying for.

I’ve wondered about this too. My husband’s affair was also a perfect storm situation. He’s done a fair amount of introspection, but it hasn’t seemed to lead him to any great epiphanies or changes. I don’t feel like there’s a high likelihood of him doing it again, but it’s troubling not to have arrived at any explanation or root cause of the affair other than the perfect storm of circumstances. I kind of accept it at this point because it’s not like I see glaring faults or traits in him that need work—he was a steady, attentive, hardworking, responsible, thoughtful husband and father before the affair, and remains so since the affair. But not getting a lot of explanation/causality does a number on my psyche.

After reading bigger’s post I realized I didn’t really know the back story of your husband’s affair. If what bigger is saying is an accurate reflection of your situation, he has some good points.

Thank you all!
Bigger, you are right this is the same man, although he claims to have only stayed with her for two weeks because I kicked him out and his family went against him. He has now moved offices to a different location an hour away from her so I don’t think has much contact with her.

I am very torn. I realise I need to do the work on me. I keep bringing things up in front of the kids. So I need to work on that and eventually let this go. I chose to stay. My husband has done none of the work, no ic, he was happy to end the mc and does not want to read up on anything. But the fall out has been great. He says he will never speak to my family again or any of my friends that know as he is too embarrassed and ashamed. He says he hates himself. So is this enough for him not to do it again. I guess that is my worry. He never did it before and I can’t go through this again or put my kids through it again

Lemon,

With kindness, let go of the "will he do it again" mentality. He already cheated on you, there is no again. "Doing the work" means he shows actual change and drops the mask he had. Many WS can’t do that.

Affairs are selfish, entitlement, and easy and feel good. Change is selfless, humbling, hurt like hell. What is the easiest way? Pretend and not actually do the work, not accept accountability, and yes probably do it again.

It wasn’t a perfect storm or a midlife crisis, it was an opportunity. She was willing and he wanted to. Again, I don’t mean to be harsh, but I promise, don’t make excuses. He cheated because he wanted to, and he didn’t think he would ever get caught or that you would find out.

I’ve worked in mostly male environments my entire life, and yes have had a few women come in who clearly wanted something from me, it was very easy to shut it down and keep everything professional.

If he doesn’t do anything to change, to make himself better, yes he will again. Consequences rarely prevent people from messing up

Think everyone has accurately described it well....

He needs to get his head out his ass, my MIL sent me a message during the A which shocked me as she isnt exactly the most direct person but after ending it all my BS and I had to go visit her and the rest of her family.

She was more stressed than I was, worrying about how they would treat me but i needed to go and apologise to each of them for what I done and that I did. There is masses of shame in me for what I have done but I am pleased to have apologised sincerely to my MIL BIL and SIL for the hurt that I caused.

If he hides himself away from your family, who I would assume are a big part of your life then he isnt being realistic about your future together....I guess he wont go to any weddings, funerals, birthdays etc where any of your family maybe therefore abandoning you again?

It's just not realistic he needs to work out this stuff and it is really really hard and christ I've failed in many ways during all this so it takes time and effort but if he isnt going to work on it then you need to decide what is best for you ....

In my opinion, both parties need to do the work. Us as the betrayed to heal, and to learn, and grow, and to see our patterns and see what draws us to certain people and to see what we deserve, spot red flags, grow our self worth, learn to have better boundaries and tools to live our best life and value ourselves.

WS need to do the work to also gain better tools in how to cope with hard emotions, to learn to truly take accountability, to learn to stop filling voids with external validations, to see their own contributions to their unhappiness and to overall become better with themselves so they can be better to others, including their partners.

Not doing the work means you didn’t learn new skills to not fall into the same patterns. The thing about learning these particular skills is that many of the issues that lead us here are rooted in FOO patterns and learned behaviors over much of our lives. These are hard patterns to identify bc often times it’s all you’ve known, these are HARD patterns to change because again, it’s all you know. Therapy is needed so that we can have support in seeing these patterns, a professional that can teach us the proper tools we’ve never had access to before, and a safe space to explore and learn and grow and not be retraumatized as you challenge deep parts of yourself.

I did a ton of work as the betrayed spouse to recover from infidelity. It’s been very hard and I’m happy to say I have such a different life now. I’m so much happier, I can see how my FOO contributed to me choosing partners like my ex, to me putting up with things I didn’t deserve, to me not seeing red flags, to me being such a care taker and to me blaming myself for things I shouldn’t and not seeing my value and worth. I was extremely codependent, which I learned from so many people around me in my family and in my friendships and in society and culture.

My ex WS did not do her work. She was too deep in shame and playing the victim in her own life and blaming others and not knowing how to be accountable, and being emotionally closed.

There are so many things she could have learned to also make her safe and to grant her a better life. She opted not to, that’s her choice. But thankfully for me, I did do my work and I got out of infidelity and have a beautiful partner and life now that I wouldn’t have known how to give myself if I had not done the work.

Your WS not doing the work means that they don’t ever learn the tools necessary to handle emotional hardships in life to not ever resort to using this strategy to feel better again.

[This message edited by maise at 1:27 PM, Friday, March 1st]

I’m usually a man of many words, but this one doesn’t require it: hell yes, they do.

And if you are getting blamed for the A and the fallout, girl, you are getting gaslit to the Nth degree.

Gently, as a WS who did a 17 year rugsweep, he needs to do the work. And it will be easier to do it now than it will be after he has put it off. What you are describing is only shame, there is nothing in what you said that says he is taking accountability. Even if he doesn’t cheat again the thing that made an affair possible in the first place is still lurking in the background. That will result in acting out behaviour that are not good for him and really not good for you.

I agree with maise. My experience was similar.

After the affair, I saw a psychiatrist for meds in addition to a psychologist. Upon hearing my story, he told me the affair was "a perfect storm". My WH and I were in the middle of large life and career changes and struggling to agree on our future, living apart for work, and the affair was brief and not as physical as most here.

What continued to come out for me was all the times my WH had been selfish or careless as a husband and parent. He often put friends or extended family needs above his immediate family. He was reckless at times. As maise said,

I can see how my FOO contributed

... I had internalized my FOO family patterns. It might be a good idea for you to read about those things and see a psychologist.

He says he will never speak to my family again or any of my friends that know as he is too embarrassed and ashamed.

This is the type of thing I would have been ok with before the affair but is absolutely unacceptable now.
You went to siblings or parents and friends who supported you and your children at a difficult time that your WH caused. HE will never speak to them. A mature person would apologize to those people and thank them for being there for you. A mature person would set a better example for their children.

All that makes sense. My family live in a different country. We are all extremely close and they helped me massively pick up the pieces when I was falling apart. They helped look after the kids as I had a baby at the time. He denies it but I clearly remember him give me the I love you but not in love with you and telling me it was over in dday and only after about two weeks did he come to his senses.

If I believed in labels I would say we are both a bit codependent. He is so against therapy and is very defensive about the affair . All he wants is to brush under the carpet but I think about it nearly everyday

I agree with acting out, my husband as I have spoken about here before turns to drink as a coping strategy. He cannot deal with my anger, drinks in the evening and then can say really horrible things to me (don’t get me wrong, I am not perfect and will be really mean at times).

Also anytime I now speak to my family it has become a trigger for him, he wants to know exactly what I talked about what is said, he was reading my messages to them. Sometimes I feel it was like I had the affair as he says me telling people as a major form of betrayal as he would never do that. My family fees he is trying to isolate me but I see it as he cannot cope with his shame

Lemon,

No, too bad. It’s called consequences. He didn’t want his "reputation" ruined he shouldn’t have cheated. Be strong. You have every right to talk to whoever you need to help you, he doesn’t like it, again, he should not have cheated. He chose to. He made 1000 decisions, not mistakes, decisions to betray his family. He has to deal with it.

Hi,

I am Ws who did the work, and in many ways that work will continue through the rest of my life.

I am going to say something controversial- I think that I could see myself not ever cheating again without the work. It was an extremely painful lesson for me. I don’t think it’s a particularly hard bench mark to not cheat, but that’s just me. I probably just would have found other ways to act out that would have continued a spiral of disaster.

However, without doing the work I am not sure I would still be married, nor do I think I would have healed, and I would have carried that shame forward, doubled down on a lot of patterns that would have continued to get in the way of relationships and in happiness in general. I was my own worst enemy.

The work for a ws in my mind is to learn to be wholesome and complete. To live a transparent life with no lies actually feel a lot better than the alternatives. To become responsible for our own happiness and take accountability over our own life rather than scapegoating our spouses for whatever it is we are claiming.

Today, I am less avoidant, I pursue healthier forms of happiness, I have learned to like and love myself, to be more curious about my needs and my husbands needs, to have coping mechanisms that allow me to handle when life gets hard, and I have learned to communicate effectively, not fear conflict, and how to negotiate.

In turn, my husband sees these changes and has assurance that staying in a marriage with me can be happy, healthy, and that seeing it over many years he can trust me as well as he could anyone else.

The work in my mind is not for the ws to stop cheating, though I will admit that might be harder for some ws or others. Because to me this is bare minimum. I think you are looking for the ws to become more reliable in every way, and to have a solid marriage because of it.

The sheer gravity of what the ws has done needs to be counterbalanced by the ws learning why they were able to do what they did and use that self awareness to change how they conduct their life. Only when those too forces start to balance will it be clear enough for reconciliation to truly happen. Otherwise you are holding your breath and just staying.

He says he will never speak to my family again or any of my friends that know as he is too embarrassed and ashamed. He says he hates himself. So is this enough for him not to do it again.

So because he's embarrassed that you went to your loved ones for support, he doesn't show up at holidays or socially engage with people that care about you, and he monitors your communications with them so you don't feel comfortable speaking freely with them? That's not a consequence for him; that's yet another shit sandwich for you.

A man who can't own up to his failings and only chooses to surround himself with people who can provide him with praise and validation is precisely the type of person who is likely to cheat again... or just be a shitty and unsupportive spouse in general, which appears to be the case here.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:59 PM, Friday, March 1st]

Donthey have do the work to be a safe partner? 10000%

If they don't and say they won't can you trust them again? No. It would be foolish to trust the person who hurt you so badly and did no worn to become a safe partner.

Is shame going to keep him from doing it? No. Absolutely not. Shame makes one weak and allows self pity instead of overcoming the shame and proving you would neve allow yourself to do the horrific things you did again.

Is he abusing you? Yes I absolutely believe this man is continuing to abuse you emotionally and verbally. Until you say no more and walk away, then it will continue.
I believe he is a narcissist. You can't fix that. He is unwilling to own what he did and does to you as harmful.

That leaves you to do the work for you on you and to protect yourself and your kids. You are showing your kids this relationship is what M is. It is damaging them. If you are unwilling to leave for you consider the harm you are causing your children by staying.

To heal from betraying you and to heal from damaging himself, he needs to change from betrayer to good partner.

He's not healthy himself, and he's not healthy to be around.

My heart goes out to both of you. M can be so much more and so much better than not cheating with another person but cheating by drinking too much and beating you up verbally. If he won't change, you doom yourself to a life of unnecessary pain. Why do that to yourself?

And what Bigger said.

Can someone elaborate what this "work" entails and looks like in real life? Thank you