SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

On D.day I asked my H for a divorce. He asked me if there was anybody else and I admitted immediately. He asked me if we had sex and I confirmed yes. At that time, he said that I must give him another chance but that I have to resign. I resigned with immediate effect and since then I have been working together with my husband (his own business). We are still working together.

What stopped you from leaving your husband for your AP as you originally intended? What’s keeping you married to him now?

The way this is written ("he said that I must give him another chance") it seems that you had no choice. Do you live in a country where you can’t get a divorce without cause or your husband’s consent? Are you afraid for your safety?

Or are you staying with him purely out of a sense of obligation and/or because you’re now his reliant on him for your livelihood?

I’m asking these questions because I think they will provide a lot of necessary context for your current situation and help us give you more useful advice.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:43 AM, Thursday, March 14th]

Waitedtolong,

It’s been 10-13 years and he is still not over it, and isn’t really even trying. It has become an abusive relationship with her BH now being the abuser, you of all people should understand that. If he is still calling her names, especially whore this far out it’s pretty clear where he stands. No, I do not think OP deserves that at all, and I fully believe he is abusing her because of his hurt. I was stating what I saw from my POV, yeah it’s harsh, but doesn’t change what I feel strongly the truth is. I am only saying why he is behaving this way. OP can’t do anything more than she is to fix it, she is doing everything she can. This is just how it works, ugly as it is.

ETA: also, and correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t one of the final pieces that woke you up to realize that you couldn’t R was that you mocked your EX asking for to give you a BJ in a store similar as what happened with her Ap which was almost 5 years previous? Reading your story, none of it is about your EW falling in love or anything, it’s all about all of the sex acts, especially the things she did for AP she didn’t do for you. Based on the limited information OP has given I am almost certain her BH is in the same position. I did not attack her, but it’s best she sees the full picture.

Hellfire,

No, of course not, there’s no monopoly on pain, and it isn’t a pain Olympics to see who has the most. What I am saying, men will more likely than women forgive an EA only as long as there was no sex. That’s just facts. Most men who have been betrayed where the EA didn’t cross the physical line all say the same "if it had become physical I’m gone". Again, no, not all men. And no shortage of women who are beyond devastated by WH having sex with AP. Generally, most women are upset over I love you and the emotional connection, I am in the camp of once I found out it was both PA and EA everything changed and I was able to stand up to the crap I was being thrown. Read all of the BH stories on here, almost all of them are able to keep fighting for the marriage because they suspect the A hadn’t crossed the physical barrier.

My point, and based on what OP said, the sex with AP is her BHs biggest issue. I am explaining why from my perspective.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 3:19 AM, Thursday, March 14th]

Read all of the BH stories on here, almost all of them are able to keep fighting for the marriage because they suspect the A hadn’t crossed the physical barrier.

That’s not true at all; in fact, the vast majority of the men who post here are desperate to reconcile with women who’ve had deep emotional and physical affairs, many of which continued over the course of several years.

Of course, a lot of newcomers come here with the mistaken belief that it was "only an EA" but WWs’ hardly have the monopoly on that line of bullshit.

Anyway, to get back on track and focus on OP, we can only speculate about her husband’s motives and feelings, but I think it’s reasonable to think that her intention to divorce him for her AP might be just as much (or more) of a hindrance to reconciliation and his ability to recover within the marriage as the sex.

All BS’s— men and women alike— struggle with the feeling that they were a consolation prize or that their WS stayed married to them for practical reasons… even though they prefer their AP. It’s nearly impossible for a WS to refute that if they actually attempted to initiate divorce.

This point leads me back, once again, to a really important question for OP:

Why are you still married to your husband? Why didn’t you run off with your AP as you originally intended?

I’m not asking these questions to shame you or scare you off; as I said previously, this information provides us with important context with which we can use to better understand your situation and provide the best possible advice.

I also want to counter that OP made specific reference to about confessing to the details of the sex which was withheld for a prolonged period of time and in her own words was worse, tied in that she is being degraded still over a decade later. Being called a whore constantly has little to do with OP wanting a divorce.

I do not condone her BHs behavior towards her at all, I am providing context from a man’s perspective. And I am far from alone.

SI, as much as I love this community has a strange bubble where sex is downplayed, especially when couples are attempting to work through R. I am saying, for many men, (and women) sex is the line that is the deal breaker. OPs husband wouldn’t be calling her horrible names that are specifically sexual in nature if that wasn’t the case.

Cold hard facts, and this isn’t my pain is worse then yours or anything like that,
most women do not understand the feelings of being emasculated when men find out their wife had sex and often more uninhibited sex with another man. I’m not saying that a Betrayed woman doesn’t feel the pain at all, what I am saying is that most women don’t understand what it feels like for their men. OP doesn’t owe us these details by any means, but if it did happen, to deny their significance is not doing her any favors.

Like in my first post, did OP chose sex with AP over her BH and finally confirmed it 10 years later? That is a frequent occurrence, (both men and women) with affairs. Did she finally confess that she did things she told her BH she didn’t like but did with her AP? That would explain a lot of how he is acting towards her.

Many men might stay with cheating wives, but I can promise the sexual aspect of the affair haunts most of them more than anything else. To deny that, to not acknowledge how significant that probably is for OP and her BH is not helping her.

HellIsNotHalfFull no offense taken and I do not even think you are being blunt enough. It is definitely the sex / physical part that is bothering him (destroying him) That is the main issue we have, if we work and are together we look like the ideal couple that has this perfect life. When we are alone and or when I want to be physical it is very difficult for him, he doesn't deny me most of the time (I believe he is just fulfilling a need, nothing more)

We are still together because the biggest part of our life is great, we work great together and complete one another. Where my shortcoming he is completing it and visa versa. The only issue is the fact that I shared my body with another man and my husband does not see it like that exactly as HellIsNotHalfFull mentioned.

Once again thank you to everyone who read and listened to my heart and took the time to respond I appreciate it and take it to heart.

My biggest issue is to explain it to him, I feel like the words don't exist in my vocabulary. I read in the forum and it makes perfect sense to me, but nothing makes sense to him. It feels like everything comes out twisted or he just doesn't want to hear.
It is all coming down to him who would never have done anything like this, he can't even imagine it, I think.

Ragab

Take the contributions to this thread with the idea the poster is "from their point of view" and also the vocabulary will be from what they have learned and experienced in getting to their current mental acceptance of their lot in life.

I would consider each of you availing yourself of some form of individual counseling. (BTDT - didn't fix by cheating spouse FWIW)

For you? I am guessing you have yet to figure out and/or accept what you had to think to give yourself permission to "service" a man not your husband. This is for you. Then, how to build up your self esteem. Think like this, many folks do a crime, do their time, and then never again break the law - they learned their lesson in a most painful way.

So you did the crime, but 13 years of "time" in pain? Or is it really "3 days a month for 13 years?" No matter. You need to improve your self esteem. My thinking is that is a big part of your previous activity that brings you here.

For your spouse? He has to heal himself and doesn't sound like he has accomplished much in the way of accepting life served him a Merde Panini.

Read the posts on this thread again and understand there are two basic problems to fix. Your self esteem and self respect.
Your husband has to figure out or learn how to put the memory you gave him in a place where it can bother him less and less as time passes.

Sometimes a problem needs total disassembly and then you can put the pieces back together in a better way. So it is with your transgression(s) and your husbands dealing with yours and his feelings.

Life is tough and "the work" can get painful. You will have no progress in learning to live with the past events without facing them head on.

A third part (counseling?) can help as you will be talking to someone not intimately (at the time anyway) involved in your past activity. Talking about problems will get the brain working a bit different that just thinking to yourself.

Ragab, what changed your mind about leaving him?

I never wanted to leave my husband for the AP. I was tired of the constant fighting and I initiated each and every fight as I was feeling guilty. I wanted to "run away" and not face the consequences (in other words I wanted to leave my husband because I had an affair and did not want him to know about it) As mentioned I was in very bad shape mentally ( he still do not understand that) but I would have rather leave him than let him know what I did. So when he asked me to give him another chance I did not think twice, it was me that was supposed to beg him for another chance but I was so full of myself then.

I know I am portraying him as a bad person but he is not, he is just emotionally so scared and hurt that he doesn't know how to handle the hurt / the reality. He still doesn't want to accept that I could do what I did.
The normal questions are on rotation - if you loved me why did you do it, why did you allow the sex if you did not want the sex (but you wanted the validation/friendship), What did I do wrong, How could I have prevented it?

As mentioned before I never blamed him at all I took full responsibility.

Again as mentioned he doesn't want to go to counseling - in his words, he never wanted to be in this situation and he I not going to sit in front of a stranger and show how fucked up he is - It was my doing, I have to fix it.

The bottom line, he is expecting me to do something (as one person mentioned, he is literally expecting a magic wand)

Reconciliation requires work from both spouses.

Divorce only requires one.

I don’t believe that it has anything to do with him being able to cheat on you or not. It’s that you did. I’ve known no shortage of guys who were cheating frequently on their wives. Wives find out and return the favor, and these dudes lost their minds. In a few of the situations in resulted in serious criminal charges.

Let’s take someone like ** No Politics **. I’m willing to bet his faithfulness to his spouse is questionable at best, however does anyone think his wife is stupid enough to cheat on him? For sure, if she did, any paramour of hers is literally filling out his own death warrant.

You can’t take it back, and he won’t get over it.

I don’t normally condone this, but have you considered something like a separation or something similar, and allow him to be with other women? In my situation, though I didn’t take her up on it, something that has allowed me to move forward is that my WW willingly agreed that if I wanted to I could. And it was all about me having sex with other women, not about relationships or a revenge affair. In fact she brought it up, and admitted how horrible it would be for her, but that she knew if it was important for us to continue she accepted it as a consequence. For me, just her willingness was more than enough and has allowed me to start healing.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:22 PM, Thursday, March 14th]

What is clear to me is that you two have been dealing with this for a very very long time.
Something is not working.
Be it you not being forthcoming.
Be it trickle-truth.
Be it your husband not wanting to move on.
Be it him feeling safe having some distance to you.
Whatever…
Something is not working.

IMHO your call is if you want to spend another 10 years doing the same, with the most likely result of something not working for the next 10 years.
Or… do you want to do something different?

What could that be?
Well… Something different…
Like demanding change for the both of you.
Like seeking professional help via a good MC for how you two could break out of this rut.
If he doesn’t want that… well… maybe inevitably you two are seeking different things.

What are your answers to his questions?

You gave him a timeline 10 years after dday. Was there new information in the timeline?

I don’t normally condone this, but have you considered something like a separation or something similar, and allow him to be with other women? In my situation, though I didn’t take her up on it, something that has allowed me to move forward is that my WW willingly agreed that if I wanted to I could.

This such a horrible idea, first and foremost because it would cause way more problems than it would solve. The cure for infidelity is not more infidelity... and it absolutely would be infidelity because OP would only be consenting under duress.

There has never been a complicated and painful relationship that has been improved by adding more people to it. Furthermore, human beings don't exist to be used and discarded to assuage wounded other people's egos.

And let's not forget... there are children involved! Even if there isn't any direct contact with APs (as there was in your case), OP and her husband would be modeling dysfunction to their children and exacerbating what must already be a very toxic, high-conflict environment for them.

And it was all about me having sex with other women, not about relationships or a revenge affair. In fact she brought it up, and admitted how horrible it would be for her, but that she knew if it was important for us to continue she accepted it as a consequence. For me, just her willingness was more than enough and has allowed me to start healing.

Actually, giving you permission to sleep with other women wasn't for your benefit at all; it was entirely for hers. It was a means to assuage her own guilt without actually having to take an active role in your recovery or putting in any work toward rebuilding trust in your marriage. More importantly, she could keep her current lifestyle and not have to endure the hardship she would experience and the sacrifices she would have to make as a result of divorce. She's probably smart enough to realize, too, that a single mother of 5 with a history of infidelity is not a hot item on the dating market.

***

OP: if your husband feels emasculated and expresses the desire for freedom and sex with other women, tell him that he is welcome to do as a divorced man.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:53 PM, Thursday, March 14th]

it was entirely for hers. It was a means to assuage her own guilt without actually having to take an active role in your recovery or putting in any work toward rebuilding trust in your marriage.

Yup.

It's very common for an unremorseful WS to offer a hall pass. They don't want to be the "bad" one. If they can convince their bs to take them up on the offer, then both of you would be on even ground. And, I can promise you, she would want you to stop talking about it,and sweep it under the rug, because that's how she would be handling your affair.

It isn't some noble gesture. It's actually designed to pull you down in the mud with her.

100% agree with Blue. Giving permission for a revenge A is not for the BS, it's to ease the WS's guilt. It's not a gift, it's a booby prize.

Again as mentioned he doesn't want to go to counseling - in his words, he never wanted to be in this situation and he I not going to sit in front of a stranger and show how fucked up he is - It was my doing, I have to fix it.

This is part of the unfairness her BH is feeling. "Why should I have to do all kinds of work as the victim here?". Perhaps you could communicate this to him: that trauma happens to innocent victims every day, and the very best thing for those innocent victims is to receive trauma-focused counseling in order to heal.

OP, perhaps you could find a way to "personally" pay for the IC your husband needs. Also tell him his IC would by definition be empathetic toward him and help him through the process of deciding what his (and your’ M’s) future looks like. Tell him they are analogous to lawyers - a necessary evil at times, but when you need one, you need one, and they become your advocate. Him getting an IC would be similar.

Hope this helps!

No, of course not, there’s no monopoly on pain, and it isn’t a pain Olympics to see who has the most. What I am saying, men will more likely than women forgive an EA only as long as there was no sex. That’s just facts. Most men who have been betrayed where the EA didn’t cross the physical line all say the same "if it had become physical I’m gone". Again, no, not all men. And no shortage of women who are beyond devastated by WH having sex with AP. Generally, most women are upset over I love you and the emotional connection, I am in the camp of once I found out it was both PA and EA everything changed and I was able to stand up to the crap I was being thrown. Read all of the BH stories on here, almost all of them are able to keep fighting for the marriage because they suspect the A hadn’t crossed the physical barrier.

Oof. No.

The reason we do not speak in generalities here is because they are presented as facts.

It’s just not true that men value physical intimacy more than women do. Or that men do not have the complexity to be hurt about an EA. It shortchanges who we are in a human level.

I think it’s more about the individual than the gender. There are men who feel they have been emasculated in their wife’s affair, just like there are women who feel that same ego strike, it simply doesn’t have a name. The path through is to accept your wife never owned your masculinity. Your masculinity belongs to you. Just like females who have been cheated on can feel a strike about their appearance or sexual prowess, they have to get to the place they can see their husband is not and end all be all judge to that.

In my situation, my husband was more upset about my extreme attachment to the other man. We had the whole hysterical bonding in two long cycles. In his affair there wasn’t a big emotional connection, but it was extremely sexual. That fucked me up. I could t have sex with him, and when we did I would have mind movies and have to stop. I knew her and interacted with her all the time and the setting was our house. So with that level of familiarity, the movies were vivid. There were many times I thought we should divorce because I truly thought we may never recover a sex life again.

Being called a whore constantly has little to do with OP wanting a divorce.

I can be patient with a new bs who is still reeling when it comes to yelling, name calling, throwing stuff…that is all normal behavior.

The timeline she released to him three years ago. Being called a whore on a regular basis is a way that he is wearing her down. It’s unacceptable. I am not sure I would tolerate it past once. This is a verbally abusive relationship, and her bs is not taking any responsibility for himself. This is not normal and we should NOT normalize it.

I

don’t normally condone this, but have you considered something like a separation or something similar, and allow him to be with other women? In my situation, though I didn’t take her up on it, something that has allowed me to move forward is that my WW willingly agreed that if I wanted to I could. And it was all about me having sex with other women, not about relationships or a revenge affair. In fact she brought it up, and admitted how horrible it would be for her, but that she knew if it was important for us to continue she accepted it as a consequence. For me, just her willingness was more than enough and has allowed me to start healing.

The reason it’s enough for you is because your wife found her empathy in the middle of this conversation. That is what helped you the most. She was able to see how painful it would be.

To execute this is a bigger mess waiting to happen. First, there would be this whole other innocent person you are now dragging into the relationship to be potentially hurt. Secondly, if you think this would cause no resentment you are wrong. Humans can’t do things that neatly. Third, it would expose another potential hazard to the relationship because affairs are highly addictive. And fourth, you don’t fight fire with fire, you fight it with water. Escalating the situation will only make it go off the rails further.

Also as a former ws, I will say that my belief system is much stronger now, but when my husband cheated after I did all it did was make me angry that he spent three years being upset about something that suddenly he must have felt was okay. That he couldn’t possibly value fidelity like he was saying.

Of course, that wasn’t exactly true either. There is no getting evn, it just doesn’t work that way. Had I given him a hall pass, it would have been to try and get him to shut up about it.

Healing is the only way through this shit show. And healing can entail being together or getting a divorce. And the other person can’t help you do that. They can only provide an environment in which you can do that work.

I personally think if he is unwilling to get professional help, then she is left with no choice but to divorce him.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:18 PM, Thursday, March 14th]

Hiking out,

I’m not saying men value sex more than women, I’m saying it’s different. It’s something about men that is different and the way we view it. To know another man was there changes our perspective fundamentally. All men, no of course not. There are always outliers. I am going to say most men view sex differently than women, and when their woman cheats with sex it’s a complete different experience for men than women. Again, not saying that both genders don’t feel the pain and this isn’t that men feel it more, I am saying it’s different. A lot of men care about how many partners women had, and most would not marry someone who has a large one. (What large is does vary by individual but it is a real thing). A lot of men don’t see their wives the same after they cross the physical line, and will never.

OP has admitted that this biggest issue is that she had sex with someone else, and a decade later her BH is still having severe issues about it. No amount of counseling will ever erase that scar on her BH. I’ve been in therapy for about two years at this point, I have been able to forgive a lot, but I still can’t forgive that WW went to PA, and I doubt I ever will. I’ve been able to find work arounds, but it will take a long time for her to be my wife again and not another man’s lover, if ever. I’ve met with a lot of BHs, and vast majority feel similar.

Playing defense on two threads today due to generalizations. I feel for you, HINHF.