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I have seen the phrase about how wayward spouses always "affair down."

I have understood this to mean that the betrayed spouse is a better person than the affair partner. Is that what people mean by that phrase? Is that because the AP chooses to engage in affairing activities?

What does Affairing down mean to you?

To me, the affair partner is often just convenient during a phase in time the ws is vulnerable towards an affair for whatever reason.

So when we date people as single people the field is much bigger.

Now you have to find someone willing to rollin the mis, forge a connection with a fellow emotionally immature person who doesn’t mind lying, destroying their family, destroying yours and really damaging each other.

The AP is just most often going to be inferior in multiple ways but yes the main way is they have no integrity, are escapists, and don’t love or really care about the ws. Most people having an affair is using the other, either consciously or unconsciously.

What hikingout said. Also, the WS sometimes picks an AP who is of a lesser social station in order to feel the added rush of having the upper hand, which they don't feel with their BS, or because their self-esteem is lacking and they think that's what they deserve, consciously or subconsciously.

IMO, there's no way to affair up because anyone who would agree to a romantic relationship with someone who they know is married or in a committed relationship is not quality partner material. I don't care if the AP is Angelina Jolie. lol

I guess where I run into the brain warp is this...

Ok, yes, my WH affaired down in every way possible. The woman he chose to "fall in love" with was a 22 year old, unemployed person sharing free porn on a porn forum.

However, is a WS able to turn that around and see that their former AP also affaired down, that they are also quite a step down from the OBS?

I don't see how my WH has ever seen himself as anything but superior to the AP's BS who was a 24 year old dropout working at a gas station who apparently hired prostitutes from time to time.

One could posit that a person taking advantage of someone younger and of a lesser social station is the bigger creep.

Assuming the AP was aware they were engaging in an A (ie. it wasn't situation where they were duped by a WS that claimed to be single), the AP is ALWAYS a downgrade.

I mean, clearly at the time the decide to engage in an A, the AP's morals/ethics are on the fucking floor. No upstanding person person with pride in themselves is okay with being an AP - and no person who is okay with being an AP should have any pride in their morals/ethics. Regardless of how they may present, their willingness to be someone's shameful secret sloppy seconds (the kind of person who is acceptable for a backseat parking lot blowjob, but not for being shown off in the real world) says everything about what they actually think they deserve in life. Seriously, imagine thinking about that romantically. Every time I felt lesser than or found myself comparing myself to the AP negatively, I would remind myself of the fact that she was an insecure, small person who probably cheated because she felt like shit about herself and thought sneaking around with my husband would boost her self-esteem,. when the reality was that in doing so simultaneously destroying the relationship she had with her own husband (who as far as I could tell was a pretty nice guy). No part of me ever wanted to be like that... ever. No one with any real self-esteem would accept being treated like trash.

Also, for the record, the person my husband's AP got (ie. him during the A) was certainly no prize. He was a similarly broken person who was using whatever/whoever was available to boost his fragile ego. I personally have no interest in that person - that would never be enough for me. But I suppose that might be okay for a lesser woman

I don't see how my WH has ever seen himself as anything but superior to the AP's BS who was a 24 year old dropout working at a gas station who apparently hired prostitutes from time to time.

And your husband was some much older (I assume) married creep who was happy being this guy's sloppy seconds. Oof.

However, is a WS able to turn that around and see that their former AP also affaired down, that they are also quite a step down from the OBS?

I could see it. I did very much see it that way whilst in the throes of healing. I will always regret my actions and how they affected her.

I don’t compare us anymore and haven’t for a long time. At some point you have no choice but to move on, but yes the person I was back then it wouldn’t be hard to think she was a much better woman than I.

I see it as affairing down because of the type of person it takes to engage in such low life behavior (it does go both ways). The AP is willing to engage with someone who is supposed to be unavailable, is more often than not a massive liar, and willing it accept scraps (goes both ways).

My husband's AP was 5 years younger, married, and childless. She was convenient and played on his desire to be the hero. She isn't unattractive in appearance but is very plain, someone you would easily overlook. She has an AWFUL personality, at least that was what was repeated to me over and over by others in our industry.

My WS is also not superior to her BS. I make sure to remind him of that.

"IMO, there's no way to affair up because anyone who would agree to a romantic relationship with someone who they know is married or in a committed relationship is not quality partner material. I don't care if the AP is Angelina Jolie. "

^^^this

I was life threateningly sick when I caught exwh cheating again and his affair was way down from being a good partner. Way down. Good luck honey (honeys actually because rumor is he cheated on one of his "girlfriends" too and she was pretty upset to find this out about him.

Thank you all for your input. I hope that someday he can humble himself enough to see that.

I truly appreciate the input from recovering wayward. I didn't ask this to shame anyone or throw feelings or superiority around. It's a hard concept for me to accept, I've always tried to live by accepting that I am no better or no worse than another person.

I have tried the older creep perspective, but he still seems to feel above it. I think it's because of the way they 'met' on a board where she was basically giving it away to anyone.

I've always tried to live by accepting that I am no better or no worse than another person.

I did too. A couple of months after DDay, we were in MC and I said something like, "I'm not trying to say that I'm better than AP..." and my MC stopped me. He said, "You are better than her. It's okay to think that." I was like .

And your H might be better than the OBS when it comes to looks or social class, but when it comes to integrity, thinking he's better than the OBS is like saying he's the least moldy slice of bread. Good for him, I guess?

Good for him, I guess?

Exactly. I see nothing good about a 40 year old man poaching the wife of a 23 year old trying to get started in life. Job position means little to me. Effort is where it's at, and that guy was trying to provide a home for his wife and family. All WH did was keep the AP so busy she didn't work while this guy was working.

Sure WH was in a better position socially and economically than OBS, but tbh, a lot of that is due to me and my influence on him. The saddest thing to me, I saw so many similarities between OBS and WH when he was that age. Some "old dude" doing to him what he did to OBS would have destroyed him.

Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it.

Don't let the affairing down take the place of blaming the person who needs to be blamed, your WS.

Don't spend time on comparing yourself to the AP or even the OBS. It really serves no purpose. So, how they affaired down is a mindf^ck that distracts you from what is important. Your spouse betrayed you. In order to R, they have to find their whys, and make amends, and recommit to being in a monogamous relationship. Who affaired down, what they saw in the AP and why did the AP choose your WS over their OBS is all noise that keeps one from healing. If your WS cannot or will not do those things to heal their character and find out what it is in their person that allowed them to stray, then listen to who they are and D. If they can do the work of R, that work does not include whether they affaired down or comparisons to the AP or OBS. Put the AP and OBS in your rearview and keep moving ahead, focused on you and your relationship.

I truly appreciate the input from recovering wayward. I didn't ask this to shame anyone or throw feelings or superiority around. It's a hard concept for me to accept, I've always tried to live by accepting that I am no better or no worse than another person.

I just wanted to say I didn’t feel that way at all. I feel a healed as I am probably going to get from the version of me at that point in my life. It’s been seven years now, and my husband had an affair after me so I have worn both hats to a certain degree.

My husbands ap was our employee, so was her husband. I don’t think I have ever gotten the vibe he thought he was better than the obs- it’s more of having been a bh how could he make someone else one? I do understand to a certain degree that once the justifying begins you shut things out of your head and it doesn’t really matter how big or small. But if he started dissing the obs, I actually think at that point I would have to reconsider our reconciliation status. That might be a strange thing to point at, but it would be remorseless.

Even though your husband has not been a bs, it’s telling that he doesn’t have remorse towards the obs.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:34 PM, Friday, May 3rd]

The simple answer is that of course they affaired down. The AP if knowing the spouse was married is truly lacking in character. My EX also affaired down in terms of not only character (he was an awful predator who screwed married women for sport) but also in terms of education and socio economic status.

The not so simple answer was she didn’t affair down in terms of fulfilling the purpose of the affair in the first place which was a mid life crisis breakdown. He was younger, fitter, though she claims otherwise better sexually for that time frame, though I think she long term wouldn’t have been satisfied with him. He got her to do all sorts sexual acts she claimed she didn’t like although they did them often enough. She was free to be someone different with him.

I’m not younger, I had a dad bod (although the best thing to come out of this is I’m way fitter now than him even years later). I was her husband so I think she never would have asked for those things from me out of embarrassment. He also validated her in telling her how great she was. Even though I did the same, it didn’t compare as this was a new outside person.

So bottom line is he provided her with things I couldn’t, so in a perverse way she didn’t affair down as she accomplished her goal of feeling young again.

I think they “affair down” when you take in the whole package. But as WWTL noted, most of the time they are not looking to replace what they have. They want something else.

I listened to an interview with Dr David Buss and he described long vs short term mating strategies. And how people change their priorities based on what they are looking for.

The short term list sounds, to me at least, very similar to what many WS are looking for….

And I get that this does not describe everyone or every situation. Had to get that in there to head off the “Not all X are like that!”

Dr. Buss studied 33 cultures and found the following:

Both genders desire the following in a long-term partner:

* Intelligence

* Kindness

* Health

* Emotional stability

* Reciprocated attraction and love

Women prefer these characteristics in a partner:

* Social status

* Ability to garner resources

* Hard work/ Ambition; long-term resource trajectory (potential to gain social status, resources etc)

* Women also have a filter in which they will more likely choose a man who is desirable to multiple women

Dr. Buss says women prioritise these characteristics due to asymmetry in sexual reproduction (ie, pregnancy in women, need for resources, safety, protection as women bear the burden of pregnancy and child-rearing etc)

Men prefer these characteristics:

* Physical attractiveness (eg, clear skin, clear eyes, symmetrical features, full lips, lustrous hair, waist-hip ratio etc)

Dr. Buss also says that as men get older, they prefer younger women (ie, he gives the example that younger men prefer women around their age, but by a man's 2nd and 3rd marriage, the age gap widens as older men prefer women increasingly younger than themselves)

Short-term relationships:

* Women prioritise sexual attractiveness/physical attractiveness in men and also attracted to men who are "bad boys" for short-term relationships

* However, men drop their standards for physical attractiveness in women if it's a short-term relationship for sex only

In regards to cheating and infidelity:

* Women tend to cheat with one long-term affair partner whom they develop emotional intimacy

* Men tend to cheat with multiple affair partners and have a "carpe diem" approach, meaning that they tend to cheat if opportunity arises in a transient way

Both men and women put great importance on emotional stability, intelligence and kindness for long-term partners.

What is interesting here is that for short-term relationships and hookups, men drop their standards for physical attractiveness WHEREAS women prioritise physical attractiveness for short-term relationships.

Also women tend to want "bad boys" for short term relationships but for long-term relationships they choose the guy who would make a "good dad" type.

Ha... "even if the AP is Angelina Jolie."

I must say, nothing makes me happier than affair partners who appear to be the "success story" and then years later, after they finally hate each other more than they love saving face to the world, admit the relationship was horrible the whole time.

Like Brangelina. Or Tori Spelling and Dean McDermott.

I'm sure that while it was hard for the BSes to get left behind and watch the affair partners make a bunch of kids, now knowing it was hell from start to finish must be an absolute celebration. I think all these cheaters would spitefully proclaim now that they "affaired down."

I just feel sorry for the kids (i.e., pawns).

[This message edited by Revenger at 11:41 PM, Saturday, May 4th]

In some sad the way the BS cannot compete with the AP. They are new and shiny and evoke a newness that we the BS cannot.

I told my H during his affair that I was his 30 year relationship and I was not competing with a 30 year old.

Funny thing is I was thinner and in much better shape. The only thing she had that I didn’t was allowing her best assets - her boobs - to hang out of every shirt she owned.

Oh and she had tattoos constant every part of her body from her neck down. Something my H claims he dislikes. Or did claim he disliked. Whatever.

My WW did affair down, he was a random guy in a bar. I do not want describe his appearance but will say he was not her type, my W is all about health and fitness he was not. This guy was willing to play a role in her fantasy she believed what she made him into. This guy was also willing to accept second place, scraps and leftovers. Us BS's expect and demand first place, that is why we are lied to and cheated, because we would never willingly accept second place.

To answer the question did her AP also affair down? Yes he did, and I told her after Dday how serious do you think he takes you? You leave a bar with a stranger and have sex with him immediately, while cheating on your H. There is no way he would ever take you seriously beyond a sex doll.