SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Obviously there are differences with each type of affair. But in my case where it was a full on relationship affair and they both truly believed one day they'd wind up together (ie more than just sex), it helps to remember that he had to live up to me. I am regularly harassed by invasive thoughts wondering if I'm lower than him, did she actually affair down, etc. But these thoughts also crept in on AP during the affair. He knew he was the one acting as a low life with no integrity. And in my case, I saw a comedy special that was funny and illuminating (like good comedy can sometimes do when speaking truth). A guy was talking about his gf's ex, and he was like, "And she was with a damn navy seal before me. I never even thought this could happen to me. I never imagined a woman who could land a fucking navy seal would be someone I could wind up with. I always had myself prepared for the fact that a gf may have been with guys with much bigger packages than me. I had to accept that if I was going to date, and I was prepared just to have her disappointed with me in the bedroom. But this is a whole new level of not measuring up. It's not just in the bedroom. Every single time I do anything, I know she's looking at me like, 'you're not half the man he was, how the hell did I go from a competent, barrel chested chisel jawed warrior to this guy who is afraid to kill the spiders...'"

I obviously find a lot of humor in that as a Marine with legitimate combat experience, but it illustrates a broader point that we all compare ourselves to others and want to be someone's best option. And it helps me to know that POSOM, while wanting to impress my wife, never quite could be me. She's even told me in the years since that it for sure bothered him. I've seen it in their texts that I found during a fight, he was blubbering like a baby with his woe is me crap about how he couldn't be me and trying to get her to tell him he was enough (which she did at that time, played right along). Just try to remember that if the AP actually had desires for your spouse long term, they are just as wracked with insecurity as you are, only they deserve it whereas you do not.

In the first year of our relationship in about 1998 we travelled to meet my wife’s parents. They are divorced and remarried but live in the same small city. Her parents’ relationship ended after her mother cheated. My wife was the youngest, and her father was not good at keeping in touch with her. Their relationship all but ended and my wife was raised in her mother’s house with AP and family number 2.

It was a working class family. My wife had got herself into Uni and graduated, and when her father met me, he said he would very much like to build bridges with her, and hoped I could help. He also made the mistake of saying that she had pulled off an amazing coup to find a guy like me and to not mess it up.

My wife was pissed. She wanted to be congratulated for things she had done, not for finding a good boyfriend. They never did build bridges.

It’s hard to compare myself with my wife’s AP because she was a woman. They met on social media. I’ve tried to leave her out of mind so long as strict no contact is maintained.

Whilst my wife was taking me for granted in many ways in the lead up to cheating, I don’t think she thought I was second best. She felt angry that she had to be any one particular thing and felt not good enough. She was missing being unconventional, which is how she sees herself. She didn’t care if I was a catch or not anymore.

Looking at things truthfully, dropping me for AP, which she was contemplating, was a terrible idea for her. I earned well whilst my wife could never hold a job. I had been loyal for well over 20 years. We would have needed to sell the house, which is almost paid off and which are terribly expensive now in Australian capital cities. Our kids love us both and whilst my wife was trying to do a re-write of marital history, she had to see me and the kids relate well, which didn’t really allow her to villainize me as much as she would have liked to justify her behaviour. Our memories of raising our kids would have morphed from a story of getting there together without much outside help, to one of failing tolerating each other for the sake of the kids. In our situation, I think choosing anyone over me would have been affairing down for her, irrespective of the AP.

I think this was so obvious, that my first attempts at the 180, a couple of half day bush walks with the dog without scheduling it with her, had her sleepless (like I had been for months), and telling me I was persecuting her.

[This message edited by straightup at 4:41 AM, Sunday, May 5th]

In the self esteem department I would say an affair is a killer to any self esteem you have or had.

And it’s natural to think "what does the AP have that I don’t" ?

My H used to be that flirty guy that all the women were attracted to. He’s funny, smart, good looking etc. It never bothered me because I was confident about myself.

Until his last affair where he planned to D me for the much younger OW. Which was a laugh b/c she was completely not his type. She held her assets (boobs) out for everyone to see. Funny thing is my H is corporate America and she was more hippie style. She was tattooed from her neck and chest down. She was a "writer".

In reality she was a hot mess. But he was attracted to that as a knight in shining armor lol. He was going to save her from her tragic life.

The point is I held my ground. I did not run out and get a tattoo or decide to write a novel. He tried to run me over and tell me everything that was wrong with me and our marriage. He’s unhappy (news to me). He’s resentful over things that happened 20 years ago (and were minor minor issues).

I held into my smarts, common sense and what little confidence I had. At dday2 when I kicked him to the curb I took back my power in the relationship and refused to be putting effort towards a relationship with a liar and cheater.

Dday2 was my opportunity to change things in my life. And I have not regretted one decision I’ve made since then.

I have read and learned in IC that there are two ways of grieving a break up or beyrayal:

"How come I am not good enough?"

vs.

"How come you, WS, are not good enough?"

Like snapping a rubberband on your wrist or throwing cold water into your own face, you need to keep reminding yourself to focus your thoughts and broken heart toward the latter.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:01 PM, Sunday, May 5th]

I think "affairing down" refers to the idea that someone who is willing to have an affair with a married/committed person is morally and mentally on some sort of theoretical lower "rung" than the betrayed spouse. How far down? IDK

To me, the AP's knowledge of the situation is paramount. For example, in the instances where the AP is an unwitting AP (meaning that the WS lied to them and claimed they were single and the AP believed them) we generally don't cast the same judgment. If they knew the WS was not single and was willing to engage in some sort of clandestine secret relationship anyway, the the AP could be inherently more attractive physically, could make more money, could be more of a career success than the BS...none of that matters when someone is so ugly on the inside...so willing to make such shitty choices. To me that is what affairing down means. Turning it into a beauty/financial success contest misses the point.

In my opinion, cheaters affair down if comparing to their faithful spouses, but compare similarly to their pathtic cheating choice. The faithful partners married down. 🤷‍♀️

[This message edited by OnTheOtherSideOfHell at 11:28 PM, Sunday, May 5th]

I saw the AP in photos and in person. She was a complete affair down in every way of looking at it.

Physically she had thinning hair that was red and I think she was trying to cover her grays but couldn’t afford to get her hair professionally dyed and so she was dyeing it herself. On top of that she wasn’t a true red head. She had no body- no curves and even though she bought high end clothing she looked like she got it from Kohl’s.

She was also on hormone replacement and she looked way different from picture to picture.

And last but not least she was happy being number to and lying to help my husband stay married to me. lol

She tossed his salad as her specialty move and gave blow jobs all the time.

Imagine doing all that just for the #2 position to get dumped in the end.😖

Oh and she had shop lifting charges on her record. A real piece of work.

And I never felt less than or insecure after learning about the affair- but I discovered my husband did.

My H affaired way down as well.
She was a coworker of my H, she did drugs, left her kids at home while she had sex with a married man in the woods, made $12 less than me an hour, was trashy, unethical, and very unattractive.
When my H had to admit to people that he had an A and who with, they were all shocked to find out who it was with... and the ones that didn't know her of course found her on FB and were also shocked he would stoop so low. I threw it in my H face for a long time and asked why he couldn't have found a prettier girl if he was going to cheat on me .... with time I am STARTING to realize it had NOTHING to do with her, how she looked, how she carried herself, nothing.

Here is the thing I have found out, at least in my situation.
My H chose her because she was broken, she was trashy, she was beneath him, she was willing to tell him how great he was, how hot he was and his fragile ego and porn warped mind needed that. He needed to feel like he was the hero in someones story, it was never about WHO it was about that feeling he didn't allow himself to have with me. He was as broken as her and instead of fixing himself and getting counseling he chose to make himself feel better through an affair (escape).
He actually told me " I knew she was trashy but she was beneath me and for once I felt like I was good enough for someone, you were always above me"

Now that he sees her or remembers how she talked he gets sick, literally. Now that he has a better job , better friends, he looks back and hates who he was, how he was so desperate for validation... which most WS are.

As much as I shouldn't be I still some days feel "less than" her only because at one point in time my H wanted that and it isn't who I am. I hope with time and his actions I will not feel this way but regardless of who they have an A with I feel like it still hits your self esteem like a freight train. Some days I fall into a deep dark hole where i question why I wasn't good enough, comparing things I shouldn't compare but as time goes on I feel like I can reel myself back to where I need to be.

I really do think regardless of looks or social status, people that are willing to have relations with a married person will always be downgrade, there is something missing in the WS that they are searching for and normally they find it in someone just as broken (normally more broken than themselves).

The affair partner provides the needed ego boost.

That is why they have affairs.

Getting back to the original question I asked --

To these people who have posted and see that their WH affaired down in their choice of an AP, are you also able to see that the AP affaired down with the choice of your husband? Is your husband able to see that he was a "downgrade" from the OBS?

Sadie, I am always perplexed when people in these forums make these type of comments. I’m really interested in your motivation- can you share your comment?

Do you really think that any BS forgets for a second how crappy their WS was in their treatment? Do you think that we are somehow unaware of how low they went? Comments like yours remind me of the predictable comment, " it’s more the WS’s fault because they are the ones that took vows" BOTH parties are equally guilty and accountable.

I’m pretty sure every BS lives everyday immediately following discovery drowning in a pool of devastation that THEIR spouses are a POS.

I could be wrong but I doubt anyone blames the AP solely.

For those on here commenting on the topic- I would hate for the above comment to invalidate your evaluation of the AP being a complete POS. The knowledge that your WS was also a POS is equally apparent and more devastating.

what Howcthappen said

times one thousand

I appreciate so much that Howcthappen clarified the fact that the BS knows 100% that their spouse hit rock bottom themselves when they engaged in cheating. I think most BSes are incredibly respectful of and deferential toward the OBS. This is because the know that generally that OBS can and should be considered so very far above both the AP and their own CS.

My husband’s AP was a garbage dump of a person, knowing full well of the children she was hurting.

My husband hears my opinion of the AP and will question how I could forgive him if my opinion is so low of the AP. My response was:

(1) She was the one who propositioned you correct? (which I know is true because I saw the texts, heard the VAR et cetera)

(2) She wanted it to continue despite my husband terminating her employment and ghosting her after a little over a month (which I know because I saw the texts, heard the VAR and was physically present when he made these moves

(3) she has no remorse to this day, many years later, whereas he is horrified that he hurt the other man (which I know because she has screamed in my face repeatedly and my husband has spent years trying to figure out how to apologize to the OBS or to make recompense in some way, which he knows will never be enough)

for these reasons and many more I feel he affaired down. (the fact that she was technically a downgrade with regard to money, education and age is irrelevant. i won’t comment on her appearance but suffice it to say that when i saw her picture when he first hired her i was super comfortable because i doubted ANYONE would want to hook up with her, let alone my husband). Innocent bystanders in the office who approached me afterwards were very clear that they witnessed her go after him aggressively. Was he a fool to go along with this, absolutely. Do I have any illusions about the sorry state of my husband’s character at this moment in time? absolutely not.

But there is no need to begrudge the BS the opportunity to point out how low their spouse stooped. We are grown ups and are entitled to our opinion.

Wow.

Sorry for the nerve I struck.

I'm curious if others have wayward spouses who are still unable to humble themselves and see that their AP wasn't affairing up by choosing them.

If this strikes a nerve for you or makes you feel that your spouse is/was crappy, then maybe just move on from the topic.

I am. I'll ask this topic be closed.

[This message edited by SadieMae at 7:47 PM, Monday, May 6th]

I could be wrong but I doubt anyone blames the AP solely.

I've seen plenty of people blame the AP waaay more than they blame their WS. I mean, one doesn't have to look too far above my comment to see an example.

Yes, the AP in our situation was a partner poacher and a definite downgrade from me in looks and smarts and integrity, but the fact that my H was attracted to that mess, was fooled by the poaching tactics, and actually considered leaving me for it makes him an even bigger mess. There was no OBS, but I thought of H as "trashy" at that point in time, because he was messing with trash.

We have a running joke at my house: If you call someone a dork or a nerd or some other jokingly derogatory name, the response is always "I guess that makes you a dork lover!" Same thing with this, but in an unfunny way. Having an affair with a hot mess makes you a hot mess lover.

Sadie's questions were legitimate. I don't understand the backlash. Maybe you're taking it too personally? Or maybe you're missing the point?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:19 PM, Monday, May 6th]

I kind of wonder if it was misread?

She is only reiterating her original questions.

I will answer as a bs to give an example:

I see that my husband affaired down yes. I think the ap affaires down with him solely on the fact she had a faithful spouse. It would have been a life upgrade for her in every other sense however.

I don’t think my husband thinks it would have been a step down from the obs. He just doesn’t think in those terms. Her ons is a convicted felon, though reformed it has caused him a lot of roadblocks.

What I don’t get is he went down for murder (as a much younger man- I only know him to be a gentle nice person) but didn’t he get the guy might decide to murder him for fucking his wife? We ws can be so short sighted.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:21 PM, Monday, May 6th]

Sadie-

I was asking what your motivation is for pointing that out to the BS and if you thought the BS ‘s were somehow unaware that their spouses were POS?

I don’t allow myself to be "trigger" shamed or internalize any shame for seeing AP’a for the POS they are.

As a BS I was devastated and almost destroyed by the actions of 2 knowing culprits.

I’m sincere in my question to you and unsure if my asking it somehow breaks a rule.

If so I apologize.

She is asking if you think the ap affaired down with your husband (in comparison to the obs). And does he see it that way? It’s her original question. Her husband doesn’t see it and it bothers her.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:25 PM, Monday, May 6th]

This was the second post I made in the topic I was seeking help from others on:

However, is a WS able to turn that around and see that their former AP also affaired down, that they are also quite a step down from the OBS?

I don't see how my WH has ever seen himself as anything but superior to the AP's BS who was a 24 year old dropout working at a gas station who apparently hired prostitutes from time to time.

This is where I struggle with my H's ego. I was curious if others had wayward spouses as egotistical as mine. That was what I was seeking. I understand that not everyone reads every post in a thread, so perhaps you missed this. I was only trying to return my post to the original point I had in making it.

…

are you also able to see that the AP affaired down with the choice of your husband? Is your husband able to see that he was a "downgrade" from the OBS?

I was addressing this part of her question.

My husband knows he was a POS. He picked her because she was lower than him and looked up to him. I have never ever questioned who my WH was at that time—— she was single never married no children —-there was no OBS but to your point my husband knows that he was in the gutter right where he found her and is still trying to clean the grime off of him.

In your original post you asked what people thought the term meant.

The next thing I saw was the above question.

I’m sorry if you were making a different point.

I hope you remind your husband that he was 💯 an affair down.

Sorry I felt it was coming from somewhere else.

Whilst my wife was taking me for granted in many ways in the lead up to cheating, I don’t think she thought I was second best. She felt angry that she had to be any one particular thing and felt not good enough. She was missing being unconventional, which is how she sees herself.

I am not a huge fan of Esther Pearl but I think this is what she gets right about affairs. Most people who have them it’s an act of self adulation. They want to meet other versions of themselves.

I think you can reconcile with a man who doesn’t think their Ap affaired down with them. But he should be able to acknowledge the value of fidelity. Meaning? At least the one was providing something that is deeply fundamental to a marriage. After that, the comparison may not be helpful. I think you want him to see all the ways he was distorting his thinking and needing him to revise his values. Framing it that way may help get you to the same page.