SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are a fucking treasure. I know that your story isn’t my story, and you aren’t my wife. I am tempted to sub it in as I know I am never going to get anything like this from her, not in five lifetimes. What you say makes sense, and it helps me accept that I couldn’t have fixed all of this. Hearing this depth of analysis from someone who has lived it, even if it’s tangentially relevant, I can’t thank you enough for this investment and vulnerability.

Now if you really want to get transparent, you can tell me what your zodiac sign is.

Lol- I laughed when I read you are a Leo. That’s really what I would have guessed if I wasn’t so focused on the time thing/ Half my family are Leo’s, including my husband. But if you are close to the end, you are Virgo cusp and that still makes me right

I don’t think anyone can prevent having their spouse have an affair. We only control ourselves. Some things happened over the course of your marriage that your wife was legitimately unhappy about. You may not have been able to fix it, but I don’t think she knew how either. I don’t think outside of the affair she acted with malice, but she followed patterns of behavior that didn’t serve her well. You both have suffered for that, and you have a right to be angry and feel robbed.

I still see her with compassion because I see myself with compassion. But I need to let it go and let you feel angry. That’s how we got on this path of discussion. If good came from it then I am genuinely glad.

But if you are close to the end, you are Virgo cusp and that still makes me right laugh

Nope, not on the edge, solidly Leo, you are just going to have to take the L on that one

I don’t think anyone can prevent having their spouse have an affair. We only control ourselves. Some things happened over the course of your marriage that your wife was legitimately unhappy about. You may not have been able to fix it, but I don’t think she knew how either. I don’t think outside of the affair she acted with malice, but she followed patterns of behavior that didn’t serve her well. You both have suffered for that, and you have a right to be angry and feel robbed.

It’s complicated as all fuck, I know. I still don’t believe that she ever intended to hurt me this bad. But she was so selfish and reckless, and that in itself is bad enough.

I still see her with compassion because I see myself with compassion. But I need to let it go and let you feel angry. That’s how we got on this path of discussion. If good came from it then I am genuinely glad.

I admire your compassion, for both her and yourself. And nobody is going to deny me my rightful anger in this shit show. Much good came from this, you can be sure of that.

she was so selfish and reckless, and that in itself is bad enough

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Oh 100 percent. No argument from me there.

All I meant is that this came about with the whole "she let her love die" was the part I couldn’t say was malicious and that’s how we got in this topic.

But if that’s all she had done, things would be different anyway. Sometimes I can latch onto a little detail and then I think, why did I latch on to that? Of course he feels robbed and angry. I just empathize with just about anybody and that is what I am actually currently working on. That’s why I am saying all that, to remind myself that sometimes just empathize with the person in front of you not everyone in the story.. It’s kind of part of the root of people pleasing. It all happens in layers.

I just empathize with just about anybody and that is what I am actually currently working on.

That is really interesting, people pleasing as out of control empathy. It absolutely makes me think of my wife’s last straw. She foolishly placed herself in a precarious situation and then considered only the asshat in front of her and his needs, I must have disappeared from her thought process. It’s like emotional object permanence that she didn’t develop. If that isn’t addressed, there can be no true loyalty beyond what is currently in front of you, which is no loyalty at all.

I have boundaries and definitely consider other people. But in here in the forum is where I see the problem more. Because it’s two dimensional.

I think in many ways in real life my empathy has served me well. I can often see multiple sides of a situation. But here it’s a bit of a detriment. I have been better about it, but I found myself empathizing with both of you, and you are the one here for the support. I think you know why I still see her, it’s a unique situation.

This is a little odd in that you are almost an avatar of my wife here, you are vulnerably saying things about yourself and I am processing them as if they are entirely true about my wife. Given that and how amazingly vulnerable this must all be for you, I just want to continue to say that I appreciate it and that I mean no offense to you in all of this. I’d rather overstate that than risk the under.

Hi @InkHulk,

This is how I have learned to look at out-of-control empathy/no boundaries, such as what was demonstrated by your STBX-WW. Someone has a paycheck that was for their family. It is a finite amount, in that if some of the money is given away, that is less for their family. They give that money away anyway. Is that kind of them? I'd say it is instead extremely thoughtless.

I remember in your earlier threads, being stuck on a detail where your STBX-WW went on a week-long trip w POSOM's family. I kept bringing it up several times. Whether or not anything physical happened between POSOM and your WW, I found your WW's participation in that trip to be enraging, about as enraging as anything else having to do w WW's affair frankly. This was a whole week that your WW was away from your kids (and you), because she CHOSE TO BE with someone else's kids and family.

Anyway, so yeah, someone can be kind and giving and empathetic to the outside world and be a horrible wife. That is all about whom they have chosen to give their paycheck to.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:24 PM, Saturday, May 18th]

It’s vulnerable but it’s like getting poison out sort of. It’s affirming of my path. If it was uncomfortable or I was feeling put upon, I wouldn’t do it. It keeps my head feeling straight so to speak.

I am not an avatar of your wife, but I think if it helps you heal it’s better than never understanding aspects of it. Blaming yourself, questioning yourself, because without understanding how people get in these independent thought loops I am sure you would still move forward feeling like you were carrying some of the blame.

That’s why I am careful to say, I am sure there are ways you could have been a better husband. That is true for all of us. But a renegade spouse is running on their own fuel. Everyone creates narratives of their life through their own perceptions and filters. Everyone. It’s just when distorted thinking comes into play because something is off balance, then suddenly the narrative runs off course. That’s not on you.

Anyway, so yeah, someone can be kind and giving and empathetic to the outside world and be a horrible wife. That is all about whom they have chosen to give their paycheck to.

100%. Don’t throw your pearls before swine, and don’t give the children’s bread to dogs. Totally agree, which is why indiscriminate loyalty is no loyalty at all. But that does actually explain something about my wife, that she is seen as a highly loyal person. But that just means that she is giving a pseudo-loyalty to everyone, and in doing so destroying the real thing.

Also, in my memory, you were more hung up about that trip than I was

It’s vulnerable but it’s like getting poison out sort of. It’s affirming of my path. If it was uncomfortable or I was feeling put upon, I wouldn’t do it. It keeps my head feeling straight so to speak.

If this is also therapeutic for you, that is spectacular, massive win win. And I do take you at your word that you will hold your own boundaries, it’s very freeing for me to not have to worry about trying to manage that somehow (which I very much did in my marriage). Every conversation we have had I consider a gift and if you ever feel the need to stop talking like this, I will not be upset or think any less of you.

I am not an avatar of your wife, but I think if it helps you heal it’s better than never understanding aspects of it. Blaming yourself, questioning yourself, because without understanding how people get in these independent thought loops I am sure you would still move forward feeling like you were carrying some of the blame.

Yes to all of this, we see it the same. Thank you for helping me process my experience when the best source of information (my wife) is unavailable. And maybe I will come away from these conversations with beliefs that aren’t perfectly accurate, but I believe they will be better than where I’ve been.

That’s why I am careful to say, I am sure there are ways you could have been a better husband. That is true for all of us. But a renegade spouse is running on their own fuel. Everyone creates narratives of their life through their own perceptions and filters. Everyone. It’s just when distorted thinking comes into play because something is off balance, then suddenly the narrative runs off course. That’s not on you.

I could have been a better husband, there is no doubt. I desire to be a better man and father, brother and friend, and maybe some day again a husband. Processing all this, having a good enough narrative where I can learn lessons but not forever berate myself over failure that were never mine, I think that will be important in becoming that better future self. Thank you for helping me along that path for this time.

I have no doubt you will be a husband again down the road, and that you will improve as you go along. No one is perfect, and perfect is a moving target anyway. I see my marriage today as us providing opportunities to improve so we can be closer and happier. I think you will be looking for that too and will find it as a result.

And I agree, my insights will not all be on target, everyone is different. I rooted for your wife for a long time. And I root for her now as she transitions into her new life too. But I just don’t see how anyone could expect to be married without filling in the blanks of how things got so off course. It’s likely a lack of self awareness combined with the fear of saying some of the things that they also hate about what they did out loud. Sometimes that feels like by saying it you are leaving a lasting poor impression, when in reality it’s quite the opposite. They tend to respect it, even if they don’t like it either.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:22 PM, Saturday, May 18th]