SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

NowWhat106,

Just a guess, but it seems like he has an idea of what’s been going on. Does he know about the conflict between you over the AP? If not, is it possible that he has noticed or seen something that made him think she is involved with someone else?

Pretty sure he has an idea that something is wrong, but I don't think he understands what exactly. Yesterday after performance he didn't want to see her and even to talk to her. Then he was crying at home. I support him as much as I can, don't try to suppress his emotions.

I HOPE that I am wrong. I am not actually prone to be an accuser here, but I just want for you to be able to trust yet verify.

I don't trust everything and I verify as much as I can. The problem is that after our previous conversations when caught her lying and then when we were talking about her suspicions behavior she has distanced. I don't want her to go full denial.

The problem is that after our previous conversations when caught her lying and then when we were talking about her suspicions behavior she has distanced. I don't want her to go full denial.

You are not in control of her responses or behaviors. Mitigating your responses and behaviors in response to hers will be fruitless while she is in this state of mind.

Instead, focus on you, the boundaries you need to set in protecting yourself and your son from further damage. You will NOT nice her back or do anything that will encourage honesty/dishonesty. I think that trying to tip toe around her only sets you up for allowing more dishonesty.

She needs to see that she could lose big here, don’t be afraid to put her in uncomfortable situations. She will respect that even if she rails against it. Right now she feels like she can tippy toe around you with no consequences. She feels she is in control of the outcome because people in an affair are not considering others.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:15 PM, Thursday, May 30th]

sisoon,

What does 'save your family' mean? If it means get your W back into your M ... well, you have to risk your M to save it. You have to accept that the best way to save yourself and your son may be to split.

I already accepted all possible outcomes. What I want is to try and to give our family another chance. If we see in a year or some other predefined period of time that it didn't work we can make a joined decision. I don't want her to just get back and everything to be how it was before. If we decide to give it a chance I'm sure it'll be a lot of work.

IOW, the best advice you can take right now may be: Give up trying to control the outcome. R can be great. So can D. Both have their challenges.

I don't try to control the outcome. My personal values just don't allow me to give up that easily.

It's a little painful to read your situation because I see a lot of echoes of my own. My wife was in college, our boys were around 4 and 7, she would take weekends away to study, I spent a lot of time working on myself taking what she had said to heart while she drifted farther from the whole family. She told me it was an EA, she agreed not to talk to him anymore, she kept talking to and then started to meet him, dday happened, I found more and then more.

Things did not change until dday when I found incontrovertible proof and she finally admitted to the affair. I told her we could divorce amicably or she could cut him off entirely and we could try to work it out. Until I had that proof and confronted it was just gaslight and distancing more and more.

You cannot save your marriage with this going on. Whatever she is doing, it's taking away from you and your son. That has to stop before anything else.

Don't make any hasty big decisions, but definitely take steps to protect yourself and ensure your son is cared for.

May28,

I am so sorry that these are the circumstances that have you joining us.

Your WW is in love with OM--and as painful as this is for you to read--she is OM's *girlfriend*. You better believe they got physical at your WW's place. Why? Because your WW didn't take her vows seriously enough, that's why plain as that.

It wasn't your faults or whatever that got your WW to cheat. Surely your WW has had faults or her own but you didn't step out. And you better believe OM has his own faults except right now your WW can't see them. She keeps bringing them up now--your faults that is--to try to justify her shitty actions of betraying both you AND your son.

We have seen plenty of people try your strategy--wait patiently and hope their WW wakes up while they--the BH that is--stays at home and hold down the fort. All in the name of "saving the family". It has NEVER worked. The betrayed men who took a harder line of filing--instead of trying so hard for R--are the ones who have had the better results--in getting their self-respect back and sometimes even in getting their WWs to wake up. It absolutely sucks that your WW has decided to drop a bomb on you and your son, but unfortunately you have to move forward. You cannot keep lying to your son, that is for sure. OR should I say, TRY TO keep lying to your son, he clearly lost trust for your WW.

How much longer can you and your WW keep up this charade in front of your son like this? I think instead, what he is truly craving is the truth. He already suspects (edit: knows) your WW has betrayed him.

Have you seen an attorney about filing. You know the way you are going now is untenable.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:48 AM, Friday, May 31st]

hikingout,

When you say this- what kinds of changes do you mean?

She wanted more emotional connection and being more close and intimate. But those were mostly soft requests or text message and then she is fine in a day or two, so I was not taking this seriously. She never initiated a face to face conversation about it.

When someone seeks intimate emotional connection outside of marriage they begin exaggerating the history of the marriage and their partner’s shortcomings. This is to avoid guilt and to aid with compartmentalization.

It feels like this is exactly what's going on in our situation.

This may not be the case in your marriage but often the ws does not see the ways they block the very thing they are seeking.

This feels like exactly our case. She requested very abstract things not trying to take small steps.

hikingout,

You are not in control of her responses or behaviors. Mitigating your responses and behaviors in response to hers will be fruitless while she is in this state of mind.

If she is in love with him it doesn't feel it'll just go away on it's own. Do you have any ideas if anything can clear her mind from? She said that she is not choosing between him and me, but it feels like it's exactly what her choices are.

She needs to see that she could lose big here, don’t be afraid to put her in uncomfortable situations. She will respect that even if she rails against it. Right now she feels like she can tippy toe around you with no consequences. She feels she is in control of the outcome because people in an affair are not considering others.

We saw each other today, I'll make a separate post about it. In general I was way more clear and straight on the situation today. I told her that she is free to go if she wants. I don't think she feels like she controls the situation and she understands that the outcome might be really bad. I'll put more detains in another post.

StillGoing, thanks for sharing your story. Are you still together? Did your ultimatum help in your situation?

Don't make any hasty big decisions, but definitely take steps to protect yourself and ensure your son is cared for.

Could you please clarify what kind of steps you're talking about?

WontBeFooledAgai, I just don't want to drop that bomb at him yet unless she makes a decision to get divorced and can clearly state that. At this point I feel like it's not too late yet.

Today she sent me a text asking to have a face to face talk. I agreed and prepared to hear the worst. It became a talk similar to what we already had many times before when she was talking about the past and that she tried to make our marriage work and trying to justify her behavior bla-bla-bla. I told her many times straight that I'll accept divorce if she has decided, but I'm also open to try to fix our marriage and relationships. I called her a betrayal and that she betrayed not just me, but our son too. She also told me on her own that she saw OP yesterday, but didn't tell me that she gave him a ride home. Then when I showed her a credit card transaction from a place close to where he lives she confirmed it like if it's not a big deal. That's a big deal to me obviously. She also lied that she saw him yesterday while it happened two days ago.

I thought that she made some kind of decision and wanted to talk about it, but it appeared to be that she more wanted to talk about an outcome of a possible divorce. We're currently at the final steps of the immigration process and if we divorce she'll have to depart from the country which makes thing more complicated. It felt like she wanted some kind of reassurance that if she decides to separate or divorce it will not put her status in the country at risk. When I asked her how she thinks it might look she was not able to provide any clear details on the possible ways to make it work. I told her that I'm not going to share my wife and if she leaves I don't any other possibility other than getting divorced with all possible outcomes. I was pretty much frustrated and in some moments very emotional. I also accused her about braking her NC promise.

The talk didn't end with anything and she went to Airbnb and told me that she needs more time to think about everything even though her stay there supposed to be to let her to calm down and abstract from the situation.

[This message edited by May28 at 4:22 AM, Friday, May 31st]

If she is in love with him it doesn't feel it'll just go away on it's own. Do you have any ideas if anything can clear her mind from? She said that she is not choosing between him and me, but it feels like it's exactly what her choices are.

So I think being in love in an affair is actually a rare thing. People who are in an affair are trypicqlly drawn to or are emotionally unavailable. (I say it that way because sometimes the AP is single)

I think people who have affairs look to others for validation because they don’t know how to give it to themselves or light themselves up. We are responsible for our own happiness, a relationship is there to enhance that, not be the main source of it.

I believe most affairs are fueled by adrenaline and dopamine. Love is not helping someone destroy their life or family. Is this guy married? You might consider telling the wife. I know that seems very outside of what you feel comfortable with but exposing it often causes the affair to end. It’s not just for that reason, the other spouse does deserve to know.

I don’t think she is in love with him, in all likelihood she is escaping her reality for whatever reason. She is foxated on him because she wants to believe things about herself that she doesn’t believe on her own.

What is hard is its addiction to the affair feelings. The best thing is to throw cold water on it. That means not putting up with sharing her for one more second. It means doing things like telling the wife. Do it anonymously even. The more reality that gets thrown at it, the harder the affair bubble is to maintain.

This is why everyone is telling you not to sit idly by. Affairs are not love or even often a viable relationship. I am not saying that no one ever leaves and remarried but if you look at the stats on those relationships, they rarely thrive.

I just Saw your post. Good for you for standing your ground. This is exactly what is needed. She wants you to stay in a sham marriage to keep her citizenship? This is where things are at?

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:48 AM, Friday, May 31st]

hikingout, I just read the article you suggested. (You meant a post on the DivorceBusting forum, right?) That feels like exactly what's going on in our situation. Do you think it's better to refrain from sharing it with her?

hikingout,

Is this guy married?

He is single and is 9 years older than her.

She wants you to stay in a sham marriage to keep her citizenship? This is where things are at?

She didn't clearly stated it like this, but it sounded like it's a one of the things that scare her most.

And now she just sent me a message asking to tell our son for her that she loves him, but that she's also sad that he denied to talk to her yesterday. I told her that he know that and to call him to his tablet and tell that to him if he answers the call.

This behavior is so weird. I've read many times that a BS should consider a WS as a different person. I still can't believe it's her. All the years I knew here she was an exemplary person with high moral to me.

May,

Needing space is such a cliche term cheating souses use its right up there with I love you but I’m not in love with you, which sound like she is also indirectly saying to you.

Here’s where you are. Your wife is having an affair, very likely full on. You don’t need to prove to her, you know it. AP isn’t just hanging around her to have deep conversations. She broke NC, big time. You have to pull out the big guns now and stand up for yourself. The marriage as you know it is over. She made her choice and it was AP. No logic or pleading or anything will reach her. The only thing she may understand is consequences. She broke NC, her marriage and her family, what happens next? You keep engaging her you’re only encouraging her affair, and you can expect similar results going forward.

You want something that isn’t obtainable right now, and you need to take care of yourself. Don’t go 180, just go completely NC. Download a co parent App and explain to her that you will only communicate with her through it about your son. Show her no emotions, just movement.

Trust me I know it’s hard. It took me 6 months to get to that point, and it was awful. I have 5 kids and the idea of breaking my family froze
Me in place. I knew of the EA but I kept lying to myself and said it’s not that bad or it’s not an actual affair, and if I’m going to end my family this way I need solid proof. That was a waste of my life. The minute I made a decision it was over, and stopped caring it shocked my WW. When she found out I was literally a day away from serving her, only then did she realize what was at stake. Affairs are born of pure selfishness, and it’s only when the WS realizes they will suffer for their actions (again it’s pure selfishness they don’t care about anyone else in the A) will there be any progress.

Like any addiction, consequences are what matters.

She may leave you for AP.
She may get her head out of her ass and actually try. You have no control over it.
Right now you are living in pain, and you have to escape what is causing it, your WW.

First few days of NC are hard, but it will get better and you will feel better. Once
You’re on stable ground you can make
a decision on what you want, based on if your WWs actions.

Promise you, keep doing what you are and the affair will continue and you will suffer as will your son.

I've read many times that a BS should consider a WS as a different person

This is bullshit. This IS your wife. This IS not a different person. No magical mist has descended upon her,and changed her via some kind of fog.

Here, we tell people when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

We also encourage age appropriate honesty. Stop lying to your son. He knows you're lying. Stop allowing her actions to turn you into someone your son can't trust. His mother is lying and betraying him. He needs a parent he can count on. Sit him down,and tell him mom has developed feelings for another man, and in a marriage that is not ok. Tell him you love his mom,but refuse to share your wife. He doesn't need details, but he deserves to be treated with respect. Lying to him is causing him great damage.

As for her..she's had sex with him. They're adults,who have feelings for each other. They're behaving as adults whi have feelings for each other. She has basically said she's more worried about deportation than the marriage. She's using you,to stay in the country,at this point.

May28,

I disagree with what you wrote earlier. You need to tell your son ASAP. He is clearly struggling with this and you and WW are LYING to him (even though I get that this is not your intention). He cannot wait for a better time for you to tell him the truth.

Despite this being so difficult, you did a good job in the last conversation. You should consider taking it one step further.

Tell her that she is confusing infatuation and a fantasy affair with true, sustainqble love. Tell her she is hiding her betrayal behind a false script where she has rewritten the marriage story to be a negative one. Then tell her that even though she is living in a fantasy world that will destroy the marriage, you have decided to grant her wish and divorce her. You will see an attorney asap and file the paperwork. No more deliberating, you are tired of her contemplating life with another man, tired of her betrayal. You should not have to fight for your wife's love and attention from another man; an unethical man who is dating a married woman. You do not want to prolong the pain for your son or yourself.

Tell her that from this point onward, if anyone is going to fight to revive the marriage, it will need to be her. She is the one that is killing it, not you. She is the one who betrayed you and your son. You are releasing her from her vows because she is not upholding them anyway. The divorce papers will make that final and legal.

This, I believe, is the way to dump cold water on her and the affair and bring it to it's end. Could she agree, leave you and go to him? Yes, it's possible. But if she will do that, she will end up there anyway. By saying these things you will take back the initiative, regain your self esteem and shorten the agony for you and your son. Those things are true either way... whether she comes running back to you or if she leaves for him.

I agree with TRDD

This is bullshit. This IS your wife. This IS not a different person. No magical mist has descended upon her,and changed her via some kind of fog.

I think he is right in what he is saying. I don’t think he is making excuses, he is saying he is not dealing with who he thought she was. Also affair behavior does feel suddenly the person is a stranger to you. I think this will enable him to come out of treating her as he always has (because that has been what is happening.)So I think this epiphany is very good for him. He can use that new understanding to take off the kid gloves.

——

As far as sharing the article, I don’t have a strong opinion either way. She is living in LaLa fantasy land, where what is happening could not possibly be reduced to logical evidence.

You are very right not to relay messages to your son for her. That is crazy she even thinks that is helpful. She is essentially asking you to advocate for her.

I don’t believe in parental alienation either (which I can tell you won’t be prone to do) but her relationship with him is her responsibility. Love him and support him, that’s all you can do.

I think you have to walk a hard line with her because while she may be in LaLa land, she needs to be splashed with reality. This is why hellisnothalffull is suggesting go nuclear on her.

I don’t know if I would do the app thing and go no contact but I would only talk to her about divorce and parenting arrangements until she can see you mean business when you say you won’t share her. I agree with him, this is a full blown affair and she is lying about it. Adults don’t go six months thinking they are in love and not have crossed lines. Affairs accelerate at superpower speed, because of the adrenaline and other factors.

TRDD has given you a good script to frame this out.

I think you are waking up to what you are dealing with. You can be open to reconciliation if you like later if she shows she is in it to win it. Until then you are not her doormat. You will have to be extra vigilant because her immigration stays, she may try to pull the wool over your eyes until she can get past that hurdle. Be careful. Take extra care over yourself, get in IC if you need to. I can tell by the way you talk you have been a loving husband, this is not your fault and don’t allow her to blame you.

I know this is scary when you want to save the marriage but this is far more effective to push this to a resolution rather than allowing her to have her cake and eat it too.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:02 PM, Friday, May 31st]

I am very sorry, May, you are in this place and in this situation.

As Hikingout suggested it could be she stayed at the OM’s home to pick him up, or he could have followed her with his car and once she parked at the Airbnb, he could have driven her back to his home. People who have affairs are very creative in the way they can deceive their spouse, especially if your wife knows the car has a tracker, she knows how to play around it. My husband met his mistress mainly during his business trips, so he was where he was supposed to be, I had the address of eacb hotel THEY went to. I just didn’t have access to some very important piece of information… so sometimes having the GPS position does not guarantee anything at all.

Please do not let your wife triangulate you by tell you what to say to your son as a message from her. She can communicate directly with him, since he is her child, too, no need to put you in the middle.

I am very sorry if divorce would mean for you you would have to leave the country also because you have a son and that would be devastating. I am sure there are other solutions, though. The truth is at the moment your wife is lying to you and deceiving you. This is sure.