SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again, slow down and read the facts. OP’s husband claimed there was no sexting. OBS saw sexting. Ergo, WH is LYING.

Edit to add, because it seems like I have to for this thread, lying is bad.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 3:37 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Again nothing new here, Inkhulk! Cheaters lie. WH is a cheater, therefore he lies to minimise, both to protect himself AND his wife. It is a stupid choice but that is what liars do. They lie to themselves as much as they lie to others. I don’t believe that a bad habit disappears by magic, it takes time and in that time, people continue to lie. They know it is a shortcut.

You know the important pieces of information: they had an affair. Affairs include or can include: sexting, oral sex, anal sex, unprotected sex.

The details are not as important. An affair is an affair, it is transgression (therefore it is possible they had practices he never had with his spouse), it is deception, it is LIES.

Some details are just curiosity, maybe a bit of willingness to make the cheater feel dirty (which they probably are!).

Would the affair be less devastating had they not texted?

[This message edited by Fantastic at 7:09 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Please go back and read the OP’s question and the reason we are talking here in the first place.

The OP currently believes that her husband is being honest with her.

New information from OBS came in that rattled her.

We are now discussing how to proceed in light of that new information.

Kitty does not seem to want to believe that her husband is a liar. If he is proved to be one, she will be devastated (but at least know the truth of it).

Honestly, I’m signing off this one, I’m getting really annoyed.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 5:04 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

I am repeating this for the OP

The details are not as important. An affair is an affair, it is transgression (therefore it is possible they had practices he never had with his spouse), it is deception, it is LIES.

Do you really need to concentrate on the details? Your WH is clearly unable to concentrate on the big mistakes he made. Please concentrate on the important questions:

1) What did the affair mean to you? What were you looking for?

2) Given I know you filled me with lies, I will not let you bullshit me with more lies about WHAT, WHERE and WHEN. What have you learnt in the affair? Is there anything that through that experience you are willing to bring to our couple?

3) Did you ever think I would find out?

4) Did you ever feel uncomfortable doing what you did? Why didn’t you stop?

5) Did you ever think you were breaking your vows? Why didn’t that stop you?

6) What did you feel when you saw my missing calls but you were with her? Did you ever think of our life when you were with her?

7) Did you ever think you were destroying what we had built in many years?

Asking too many details is asking by pointing the finger, PLEASE speak from how you feel, how this whole situation is affecting YOU.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 6:59 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

I think the poly is a good idea.

Yes ws are liars, but it’s perfectly feasible the ap is lying to her h in order to hide a second affair. She may be banking that he will forgive one and not two.

The obs does have a plausible conflict of interest. He hates kitty’s husband and may want to see him lose his marriage.

There is no real evidence that she can rely on outside of what she recorded and discovered. I think she is likely to get the answer she needs from the poly. They are not one hundred percent but like bluer than blue pointed out, it may get her a parking lot confession. " I would tell him before going in (and did with my husband) that if the poly says he is lying then it’s indisputable that it’s over. That his best chance is for me to find out from him prior.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:44 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

A

that if the poly says he is lying then it’s indisputable that it’s over. That his best chance is for me to find out from him prior.

So you would put your marriage in the hands of a tool that does NOT GUARANTEE THE TRUTH? If it did, and it was proven it did, all states would use it, but they don’t…

If you are willing to do so, just trust your spouse, who may not guarantee the truth either.

Bug don’t take for granted the outcome of the polygraph.

Repairing the marriage is taking risks. You are either in or… give up now!

[This message edited by Fantastic at 7:06 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Hikingout I will talk things out with.

Yes ws are liars, but it’s perfectly feasible the ap is lying to her h in order to hide a second affair. She may be banking that he will forgive one and not two.

The reason we are talking about multiple affairs in this thread is OP introduced the idea in the opening post. My judgment is there is a much simpler explanation to the facts at hand, which is just that neither cheater told the full truth. This just seems like a zebra instead of horse situation.

The obs does have a plausible conflict of interest. He hates kitty’s husband and may want to see him lose his marriage.

I believe I did mention that, but I also can’t remember any times here that a betrayed spouse intentionally harmed the OBS as a means to get at the AP. God knows I’ve thought about it, but the shared experience with my OBS stays my hand. Is it possible, yes, but we are dealing in probabilities, and having a poly won’t change that.

I think the poly is a good idea.

I think she could. And I think she could do that AND have a follow up conversation with OBS and see if he can give even one little piece of damning detail that solidifies this whole thing. The conversation with the OBS seems much easier to pull off and more likely to be definitive. Just my thoughts.

It's pretty hard to "be in," if you think you are still being lied to.

The details of the affair are less important over time. For some of the reasons you've pointed out Fantastic. But to even begin rebuilding a marriage the foundation of truth must be laid.

OP and all betrayeds literally have NOTHING to rely on in terms of trusting their waywards. We start somewhere. And this is usually where we start. Honesty, right now, no matter how painful or embarrassing and no matter what the cost to the wayward. It is literally one of the only things we can ask to test honesty and start to rebuild trust.

And those awful, endless questions? They are the first quarter of inch in the trust rebuilding journey that is like 100 miles long.

If a wayward fails at the starting line, game over.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 7:17 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Also, it’s not like OBS knew what Kitty’s WH’s story was such that he could contradict him and get him in trouble.

I’ve said enough. Best of luck, OP

Inkhulk
I am not saying what you are saying isn’t valid.

I think we all just come with things colored from our own experience.

My experience with OBS was okay at first and then not good at all. And you may or may not remember, I knew him for years. I really liked him a lot. But like a lot of bs, he was unrecognizable after finding out and he put details in that he said she said to see if I would get confirmations of his suspicions.

Turns out, he then told me she didn’t say them but he wanted to make sure she wasn’t lying. He really went hard to try and get me to believe certain things. Some things went unconfirmed but…

My view is inform the other one and don’t keep contact going. It’s for a lot of reasons- it gives the ap a window into what is happening at your house, and it can become very complicated if there is ongoing collaboration. I got sucked into that.

My main reason for having the poly is to confirm this was his only affair. Reason: he was very undetectable. When I was doing it, he knew something was wrong. His ability to compartmentalize while doing this in our house is kind of scary to me.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:30 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Thanks for sharing where you are coming from. I will add your experience with your OBS to my mental register, never heard of that before. Sorry you were used by yet another person.

Double post

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:32 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

OBS clearly has been lied too, as AP said "no sex". That alone is proof AP is lying and gaslighting OBS still.

OBS has some facts, but it really sounds like he doesn’t know anything because what evidence he had is lost, can’t verify name of her WH, etc. just because OBS said he saw texts is not proof. At all. Not because he is lying, but because he really doesn’t know what to believe, and neither OP or OBS know.

This isn’t a court of law, proof positive isn’t necessary. "Reasonable Doubt" isn’t needed.

I honestly think keeping in contact with OBS at this point is a terrible idea. He knows, he shared with you what information he has, that needs to be the end of it. OBS is not an ally, and you don’t know his intentions. Plus just by proximity, keeping in touch with him is opening the door for AP.

Your WH lied to you and had an affair. You know it, and it’s not your responsibility to trust him. It’s his to earn it back.

What happens if he is lying? Is that the end
and you D? Or is this just more reassurance for you and if he is lying you will continue on R regardless? Not judging or anything, but these are the questions you need to answer for yourself.

Also, it’s not like OBS knew what Kitty’s WH’s story was such that he could contradict him and get him in trouble.

This.

OBS has some facts, but it really sounds like he doesn’t know anything because what evidence he had is lost, can’t verify name of her WH, etc. just because OBS said he saw texts is not proof. At all. Not because he is lying, but because he really doesn’t know what to believe, and neither OP or OBS know.

I respect you greatly, HINHF, and I totally disagree with you here. If you had your wife’s messages and either intentionally or accidentally deleted them, would you lose all knowledge and credibility about them? You would not. It’s a lesser form of evidence to be told something, but it is still of value.

Without hesitation, I would recommend finding the best polygrapher in your area, interviewing them and scheduling the polygraph yourself. This is the best way to get truth or peace of mind. IMO you need to do this not your husband - you should hold the power on who you choose and talking to each one will give you a much better handle on the process. Once you do this, you have to accept that if your husband doesn't participate, he is still lying.

My ex unfaithful wife initially confessed to one two-month affair which I caught her in the middle of. We went through more than a year of false reconciliation - $6,000 on marriage counselling and $1500 on an intensive affair program, plus more on IC and countless marriage and infidelity books. On the surface she looked like a close to perfect repentant cheater -we as a couple were praised in our recovery group as a model for healing. She offered to a poly several times and I never asked her to. At the 15 month or so post DD mark I asked to take a poly to confirm that the past year was one of honesty. She refused aand gave a million bullshit reasons. I told her that her refusing was lying and I had to move foward with divorce.

In the end she was lying - her one brief affair, turned into four and the current one continued through all reconciliation efforts. A master liar can sit there and convincingly lie to your face, your marriage counselor’s face, and everyone else’s face. Call me a skeptic, but I imagine the other betrayed spouse has the parts of the story you do not, and you have the parts of the story he does not and there are a whole bunch of parts of the story that neither of you have. The most ugly parts. I truly hope this is not the case for you and your story sounds like one of great success so far. I dont want to dash your hopes, but I have personally experienced something very similar.

The poly will elicit a better representation of the truth and you can peacefully put these fears to bed or you will likely get a parking lot confession if is still lying before he even takes the poly. IMO the only reason my ex came clean with me was to avoid the poly and hide even some bigger lie by convincing me in confession that I had the whole story - there is always some big ugly gory detail, the ultimate point of shame that the lying cheater fears confessing the most. It is the whole idea behind trickle truth too - cheaters will tell their betrayed spouse just enough to make the story believable and cover up the ugliest details or shame that scars them the most. I hate to be a cynic but I have read enough about affairs and talked to countless people who have been through them, liars like this dont change over night, nor was their ability to lie and decieve built over night.

Always happy to have a disagreement.

I don’t want to get into the nitty gritty, but I will make my point.

I did have the texts originally, it’s how I caught my WW. I lost them as well. For sure some things are burned into my brain and I will never forget them.

That being said, when my WW was still in the A and more importantly when I was being gaslit to hell and back, I really couldn’t give specifics about the messages. Maybe that’s why I see OBS as just mentally destroyed because he definitely sounds like it from OPs description.

And I strongly believe at this point contacting OBS is a terrible idea and will only further intertwine APs sick world. I feel OP got what she got and it’s really up to her WH to prove his case, no one else. Because she will never get the full story, ever.

Obs saw the dates of the texts. He has zero reason to lie about the timeline. And, as pointed out, he didn't know what ws had told OP, so he wasn't lying to cause trouble. OP only has the word of her husband as to when it started.

I think the most likely scenario is, OBS is right about the timeline, and was lied to about there being no sex. And OP knows there was sex, because of the VAR, and was lied to about the timeline.

It's extremely common for a cheater to lie about both..the day it started..and whether there was sex,or not.

Also, many of us know it's very common for a ws to stick to their story. Even those who are "doing the work." Without being specific, we have a ws on this site, who is nearly 2 years past dday,is doing the work,yet a few months ago, they admitted he'd been lying about some things.

Happens all the time. They lie because they don't want to deal with the consequences. And,also, because they're trying to protect what little bit of image they still have.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:13 PM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Fair enough. But even if you couldn’t recall every detail, I’d bet my house you knew when it started and that it was sexual. That is all we need to believe from OBS to conclude WH is lying, that either one of those two things are true.
And I judge that one small conversation with OBS would give Kitty either the confirmation she needs here, all she needs is something like a tattoo or birthmark or a phrase her husband uses. Just any detail that OBS knows that can testify to his accuracy and this is a closed case, no poly needed. And if she can’t get that from that from him, then poly him up.

intentionally or accidentally deleted them,

Thank you for pointing this out.

Sure,kids play around on our phones. But,it's interesting that the kids purposely deleted these particular messages. Most likely, the ww deleted them,for all the reasons ws delete evidence. Especially since we know this one is still lying about the sex. She was probably worried it had been discussed in those messages, or at least implied, and she deleted them before he could read them thoroughly.